Starky is a triathlete and uber biker, no question on either. You don't have to win every race, or even most, just now and again to be considered a real triathlete. All the guys on my list meet that criteria, perhaps John Howard is the furthest away from the true triathlete moniker. But he did win Kona, so he will always have that..

If the "all time über list" who's a little cyclist?//

Well on my made up list here there is just one out of over a dozen. As I recall Thomas Hellereigal was a slight guy, maybe someone remembers exactly how big he was..A lot of guys your size rode really fast though, but uber riders do tend to be the bigger guys. Like you said, not substitute for power with Cda's not moving much.

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He's listed at 5'10" 154lb. I don't know how accurate that is, but that's a lot of muscle for 5'10", so I'm not sure he counts as "small".

Lothar Ledar?
Luc Van de Lierde?

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Lothar Ledar?
Luc Van de Lierde?

No, but of course both had uber rides in their careers. I remember I was in the lead vehicle at Kona one year, 96 I think it was. Luc went off the front with Hellerigal and they worked the rest of the field. But event then Luc spent 95% of the time sitting 4 or 5 bike lengths back of Thomas who set the pace. And Thomas had to catch from his swim deficit that day too, so just another data point why he is the uber biker and others are just great riders..The uber riders almost always set the pace for others to follow if they can, never happy sitting in the lead groups for very long...

Don won the race by going of the front and holding on is ST just upset that he is not North American. All this result is proving is that there are a heap of guys who with watered down fields can get away on fast courses and get a help from the moto.

Without needing to race tactically with weaker fields they can gas it. Sort of what Sanders does, then when he gets to a race where you have to race tactically and deal with surges he gets beat by better guys who understand its a race not a TT

In Athens, didn't Craig Walton drop everyone in the swim, take off on the bike, get a flat, get caught, change the flat, catch up and still get to T2 first? Crazy in a draft-legal race...

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Don won the race by going of the front and holding on is ST just upset that he is not North American. //

I know I have been quite active in this thread, but Im not upset that Tim took advantage of his situation. Just about anyone in that position would do the same, has nothing to do whether he is North American or not, I like the guy. My only beef is how his performance is viewed, I just like to call a spade a spade. You don't just ride a 4;06 on a legit distance course at his size and power. But there are lots of cases like this one, this very race the year before! Astute pros get a feel for which races you need to get to the front in a hurry on, and if you want to win that better be part of your strategy.


Now I don't like that this happens, but it does and that is reality. People that race and don't accept realities, well they are just never going to be happy. I opted out of a lot of races in my career because I knew it would be something I would not be happy with afterwards, usually the opposite of a moto on the front though. I have to say I have taken advantage of that scenario more than once in my career, even raced too hard early to get it by myself a few times. Never to this races extent though, usually just a few minutes here and there getting camera shots. My gripes were with races that let a free for all behind the lead swim groups on the bike course, thus nullifying that portion of the race.

two more names for uberbiker list:
Andrew McNaughton
Conrad Stoltz

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Are you talking about Olympics? If I recall correctly it was Hamish Carter and Bevan Docherty controlling the field on the main hill.

Don't think Craig Walton even made the Olympics.

In fact he didn't. Peter Robertson (one of the other best one day racers ITU has seen when he is on form) and Simon Thompson from Aus went. Looking through results Eneko Llanos got 20th, and he has done ok at ironman over the years, looks like he got dropped on the bike though. Andreas Raelert was also a minute slower than Docherty and Carter on the bike.

On that note, is Sven Reiderer still going?

Why not? There are plenty of pro cyclists that size and smaller who would crush that time. Contador is smaller than him I'm pretty sure. Look at George Bennett's last tt effort in the tour of california on a relatively flat course. He is listed at 58kgs. I'm sure he'd crush any triathlete on the bike.

No, not Olympics. Llanos did do one legit 1:08 70.3 run... Also, wasn't it Conrad Stoltz who controlled the bike at the Athens Olympics?

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First - I'd argue Bennett would not crush any triathlete on the bike - if you're talking about a long distance TT. There is some difference between a 24km TT, which Bennett did good in, and a 180km TT. I'd also argue - but here I'm going out on a limb - that you cannot automatically compare a 58kg cyclist to a 58kg triathlete. Physically I'd guess there two are quite differently built.

Second - and I think this is just as relevant. I dont think anyone can argue that at the pointy end of the field (where we can assume everyone is close to maximising their potential) - a heavy rider will fare better on a flat TT than a light rider. Just take this years Giro - the last ITT - which has been pointed out above. Search up the top 10-15 names on the list in http://www.procyclingstats.com (I'm sure there is some margin of error on the weight, but for ballpark-figures). See any 5x kg riders in the top? The first sub 60 kg rider was actyally Quintana (whom is arguably a world-class lightweight cyclist - although probably not know for his ITT-skills..).

I have nothing against Don, but I just have zero belief that he could ride that 4:06 split completley unaided. Is there a 60-65 kg cyclist in the world that could ride sub 4:06 for 180km ITT? Sure, probably quite a few. But as long as all the other triathletes posting sub 4:10-4:15-times are in the 70-80 kg range I am going to have a hard time imagining a lightweight triathlete can ride a 4:06. Starky is quoted at about 81-82kg for his 4:04 in IMFL (http://www.slowtwitch.com/...bike_split_3275.html). I dont know what watts he put out doing that, but these TP-article has some interesting references:

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...bike-split-possible/
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/power-analysis-how-lionel-sanders-broke-the-ironman-world-record/


Evidently - previous rides close to 4 hrs (4:02, 4:03/4:04) have been done on avg watts of around 315 or so. Lionels IMAZ-ride of 4:04 was on 315/317 watts (AP/NP). LS has been quoted at around 75 kg, which has him on 4.2 w/kg. One could argue Tim Don is/was more aero - better equipment - different course - better conditions etc - so the comparison is half-ways pointless. I agree on this, but for the fun of it 315w avg for Tim Don would - on his 65kg frame - be 4.85 w/kg. He could probably do with abit less, but at the same time it is hard to belive that he can hold more w/kg than LS. His 65kg frame would give him a 273w avg on 4.2 kg, which seems more plausible. I do not think there is any way he rides 4:06 on 273 (or 275 or 285 watts..).


Bottom line - until we see a power-file from Don I'll assume he got 10 - 15 min from the motos. Wild speculation, but hey - that's what the internet is for!

I'm 5'10" and 154 in race shape.
Nobody has ever said I have a *lot* of muscle at my size.

Now, compared to Rappstar, who's like 4" taller and probably weighs the same or less, I look like a MMA fighter and he looks like a POW. ;-)
So "big" and "small" are relative terms.

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float , hammer , and jog

Agreed. I was referencing Don, Charbot.... and myself, close to 6'1" and under 150 in race shape. But maybe that's to my point, maybe people don't identify with a Charbot or a Don as well as they do with a Sanders because some sort of physique self-identification process.... Frodeno at 6'4" is pretty darn thin at 164lb, but maybe his height, as does Jordan's, allows them to escape the Don-trap, if his physique has anything to do with ST not freaking out over him in the way they do over Sanders and Keinle... or maybe it really does just come down to ST's preference for qualities that get athletes placed on Monty's coveted uber cyclist list.

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two more names for uberbiker list:
Andrew McNaughton
Conrad Stoltz

Andrew was a great rider, but honestly 1/2the time we raced together I would beat him on the bike or come off together. Similar to Cam Widoff they would both do super at Wildflower showing potential to really be at the pinnacle of the sport. But different courses for different horses, and they were just regular podium guys through most of their careers. And Brad Kearns would almost routinely ride with Andrew in all their races..


Conrad like Souza was in a different sport, so hard for me to gauge those guys. But if we are talking Xterra the list would have to start with Ned Overand for sure. He is the one guy I know was an uber biker in that world..

A lot of people seem to think this. I never know why. The one example we have is from 2006 when the Silverman Iron-distance race offered a $100k prize for a team that could go under 8hrs. Tyler Hamilton showed up and absolutely destroyed Bjorn (who was also doing a team trying to win $100k).

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Tim had an off day?

He just showed up in my FB feed for placing 7th in the Pro men's field at the Iron Horse Bicycle Classic. At age 61. Rally pro rider won.

The Don switched his nutrition this year entirely. He's now on the entire First Endurance line. He's training better than ever and able to sustain full effort for the entire Ironman.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

please correct me if I'm wrong, but Stoltz did do ITU racing and he pushed the bike at the Athens Olympics....?

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If all you had to do was push the bike once in awhile then the list of uber bikers would be in the 100's!!

And people keep bringing up this one example but keep leaving out that Björn's aero bar broke off at the beginning of the ride. See how fast you ride holding on with one arm for over a 100+ miles on a very hilly course. And even with that real handicap, he only lost about 10 minutes to an admitted fully doped to the gills pro tour peloton rider.

Seems like with all that information that it reinforces the closeness of the riders.

add to that the 10,000ft of climbing at Silverman making a much more of a "climber's" ride than a normal time trial make Bjorn's performance even more remarkable against an uber climber.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

FIFY.

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float , hammer , and jog