OK, course legit? //

I will say with 95% confidence that the answer is no. First of all Tim Don is a very good triathlon pro, uber biker, uh no. That is a term that few are deserving of, I can only think of about a dozen or so going way back to the beginning.


I will begin my list, others can add or amend as they see the term used; (and I will of course give my blessing, or not.. (-;


Lionel Sanders
Bjorn Anderson
Norman Stadler
Chris Leito
JurgenZack
Thomas Helleriegal
John Howard

44 swim, 4:06 bike. not including transitions, Don would only need a 2:54 run to take down Sanders's record! wow

and a 2:45 for Frodeno's record

OK, course legit?

From ironman.com

"Tim Don has now gone through 13k running a pace of 5:59 per mile. If he holds up this pace he's literally going to break every record in the books today!"

How many times down Don have to bike close to 2 in 70.3's and close to 4 in iron distance races until you'll grant him access to that club? Or, do we accuse him of drafting the moto every time he cranks out an amazing bike time? Or, does it only count if it's Hawaii? Or, should he have scrapped Brazil and put everything on the line at St. George to gain entry into that club?

Just out of curiosity - Did you consider Tim Don a uberbiker last year (at the same race) when it was McMahon that was sitting behind the lead vehicle?

Last year Brent biked a 4:11 while Tim biked a 4:22.
This year Tim went 4:06 and Brent did 4:29.

You do the math. :)

How many times down Don have to bike close to 2 in 70.3's and close to 4 in iron distance races until you'll grant him access to that club? Or, do we accuse him of drafting the moto every time he cranks out an amazing bike time? Or, does it only count if it's Hawaii? Or, should he have scrapped Brazil and put everything on the line at St. George to gain entry into that club?

\

The thing about IM Brazil is that it's infamous for the aerotow provided to the front biker. Last year when Tim went 4:22 on the bike there were videos posted of Brent Mcmahon enjoying the heck out of the lead moto and going 4:11. It looks as if perhaps it's possible that Tim learned a lesson from that and went right to the front from the get go. I'm sure we'll eventually get reports of how the front end of the race looked to others like we did last year.

Course records are fine as long as the course remains the same. Tim's performance today is amazing and I do not really care if he has the fastest ironman branded time or the fastest any ironman time. Tim is killing it today and it is amazing to follow.

how many guys will go under 8 hours today?

Just out of curiosity - Did you consider Tim Don a uberbiker last year (at the same race) when it was McMahon that was sitting behind the lead vehicle?

Last year Brent biked a 4:11 while Tim biked a 4:22.
This year Tim went 4:06 and Brent did 4:29.

You do the math. :)

Congrat's to Tim Don on a new IM World Record.

The weather in Brazil is perfect to go fast right now. Zero wind, damp, but not much rain, 60-65F and mid way through Tim's run a misty rain started. It doesn't get much faster.

If you watch the you kind of get an idea what's going on with the vehicles. (The quality is so-so at best, but as a fellow IM fan I'll take what ever coverage I can get!)

On a side note, I chalked up another DNF here at IM Brazil as I've been dealing with odd leg spasm issues after a couple easy days. Easy swim then refocusing on a good effort for IM Boulder in 2 weeks.


IM Brazil, according to Strava, is a fairly accurate 112 miles.
Here's Kevin Collington's file from last year. Therefore it isn't short like 2017 IMTX.

In order for Kevin to ride 12 minutes faster to keep up with Brent McMahon, according to some rough estimates on Bike Calculator he'd conservatively have to put out 20-30 more watts to ride a 4:11 what Brent rode when he won.

So if Tim factors in some faster wheels, tires, most optimal position, ceramic bearings, elite level cycling coach, clothing, etc we all know he'll ride pretty darn fast anyway. He did in St. George without question.

Now, IF there were issues with a vehicle, it's clear that Tim basically took a page out of Marino's 2015 race and Brent's 2016 strategy, and I don't blame him. Swim front group, go full gas until you get behind the moto. If I were in his shoes, I would've done the same thing -- Dan, feel free to crucify me for saying that.

When we get the lead vehicle and it's not keeping a fair distance, we typically wave it off a couple times but eventually shrug our shoulders and say "this is how it's going to be." To be honest, I've never really had a massive and lengthy advantage by lead vehicles like some of my fellow pros. I've occasionally had a taste of it, but no more than a few seconds. In fact I've had more problems of them getting in the way and slowing me down in corners and bottleneck areas than any sort of drafting assistance.

I'll wrap this up by saying IF there really was lead vehicle foul play on a course that has several 180s to get rough and close time splits on competitors, a 20+ minute gap over second place is a bit greedy. Or even a question of poor judgement by either the driver or Tim. Otherwise, as long as it's fair and 100% legit, he had the race of a lifetime and I congratulation again on it.

Jan didn't (or couldn't) put more than 10 minutes into Tyler and Nils at 2016 Roth.

Nor did Starky put that a massive amount of time into the pack at IM Texas.

Look at his twitter page. His coaching company is called "Dirty Fast Coaching". Pretty ballsy for a guy who served a ban for missing drug tests, was told he would never race the Olympics again....and controversially missed more drug tests and was allowed to race.

On two occasions I was travelling overseas to represent Britain in international competition and failed to amend my location details. On the third occasion I went to an athletics competition in Loughborough which ran late. I arrived back home later than intended and minutes after the one hour window that is given for testing had expired."

OK, course legit? //

I will say with 95% confidence that the answer is no. First of all Tim Don is a very good triathlon pro, uber biker, uh no. That is a term that few are deserving of, I can only think of about a dozen or so going way back to the beginning.


I will begin my list, others can add or amend as they see the term used; (and I will of course give my blessing, or not.. (-;


Lionel Sanders
Sebastain Keinle
Starky
Bjorn Anderson
Norman Stadler
Chris Leito
JurgenZack
Thomas Helleriegal
Mike Pigg
John Howard

I forget the guys name, a British kid that was a front pack swimmer and off the front biker. He seemed to fade after a couple years though, what happened to him, anyone know? When he first hit the scent I though he would achieve that uber status, but like the Ralerts something happened and kind of fizzled out.

Matt

I applaud anyone that comes on here and has the balls to step up to the plate and bring this up. We really need to start a Private Facebook Group for pros and start discussing this stuff internally as well. We need change and it isn't happening.

A few to add:

Alistair
Chrissie

T.O. (look at his last few Kona bike results puts him at or near the fastest) //

Well this is just my mens list, we can start a Womens if people care. Bike companies don't seem to, women uber bikers just don't and never have sold a single bike.


And I do not consider Allistar an uber biker just yet, but he is knocking on the door. We need some more non drafting results under his belt first, the 70.3 WC should be a good final exam for him.


And no on T.O., he is part of that group just under, has the occasional uber ride, but not a consistent uber biker. There are lots of guys that have that occasional uber ride, but you almost always see it when a "real" uber biker is not present, or off form for some reason. The real uber bikers almost always showed superior form on the bike, and almost never rode in the lead group for more than a brief rest period.


I forget the guys name, a British kid that was a front pack swimmer and off the front biker. He seemed to fade after a couple years though, what happened to him, anyone know? When he first hit the scent I though he would achieve that uber status, but like the Ralerts something different happened and kind of fizzled out.

Hey Matt thanks for the input. As you know, unless you are in that lead group, or the one chasing him, it is hard to tell just how strong Ali really is. We all know he is a beast, but it really doest show to the fans until he rides some races on his own. His first test against Lionel was in uber territory for sure, and like I said earlier, one or two more like that will erase all doubt.

Of course you were in many of those races with him up close and personal, so you have a much closer perspective on it. Not to mention that you have had your share of uber rides yourself. And since you are here, you seemed to be super aggressive and uber in ITU racing, never really settled or comfortable just letting the lead group be your fairing. When you came to non draft it seems(to me) that you toned down that aggressiveness on the bike? You had strong rides for sure, what was your strategy once you moved over?

Ok so 10 minutes, can we then attribute the other 10 to the run? Going that much faster on watts that don't justify it don't happen in a vacuum. That was my point in talking about the top 10 Womens times. Never before have I seen such a grouping of average pro women, and with such fast bike times all right around each other.

Yes the swim was short about 300 meters, but that wouldn't account for their overall times. It had to be a faster and easier than normal bike that led to much faster runs than usual too. And the weather played right into this perfect storm too. It all just smells fishy...

There's a few reasons why I dialed it back a bit on the bike.

1. From 2008-2011 I really only opted to go hard on the bike because ITU breakaways were very rare and I felt like my chances of success increased if I could get 30-60s lead on the competition. To my dismay, once I walked away from ITU the front group of 15 swimmers eventually figured out that if they all ride hard the first 15-25km instead of a 5km lap, they all perform well in the end.

2. I think one of the biggest problems in non-draft for smaller guys is that we're essentially on the same size and weight bike as someone that weighs 10+ pounds more, just with smaller engines. In terms of frontal surface area, we're very close as well. It just helps to have a few extra pounds of muscle for the engine.
Brent told me he put on a few Kg since his ITU days. I have too, but not as much as I like.
---this brings up another point about Tim's bike in Brazil. Him and I weigh virtually the same and tiny guys arent known for being Uber bikers.
Case in point: Nairo Quintana in the last stage of the Giro lost it not only because he's a "bad time trialist." The smaller you are, the greater disadvantage you have on a flat course where being light isn't beneficial

3. My strategy now that I've moved over to long course is the same. "Ride hard enough to stay in the race without emptying the tank for the run"

You do the math. :)

monty wrote:

Sindballe

Hellriegel

Thomas H. made my first cut, you must have missed him on my list on page 1 here. And for Sinballe, he also goes into the T.O., Spencer Smith, Wolfgang, and many other category. Had uber rides in his career, but I would not classify him as one of my complete uber riders. You yourself have had some uber rides too, but not enough or dominant enough to make that list of I think 13 I have now. Check it out closer and let me know what you think of all those guys.

---

1. TriRoost has a private forum for pros.

2. What about that Pro Union or whatever it was called (and Jesus, no one needs to tell me it's not a real union.)

Jurgen is on my original list, you are just spelling his last name wrong.

Tim was responsible with regard to missing those tests. Unless you have information that I don't have, his reasoning was pretty legit seeing how the protocol for out of competition testing was still relatively new.



He took full responsibility for his actions.... and it's been argued by others before that British athletics should have ensured that Don's location known if he was competing for and representing GB. Not to take responsibility off the shoulders of the athlete, but I do agree GB could have made an effort as a back up to ensure their athletes are meeting out of competition testing protocols. In this case, I just don't think the rock throwing is well founded.

Your list is a joke when you leave off Brownlee and Frodeno. Frodeno has proven is bike strength time and time again. And your asking a guy (Brownlee) who has 2 Olympic golds and more wins than most of your list combined to prove himself? That is just dumb

Your list is a joke when you leave off Brownlee and Frodeno. Frodeno has proven is bike strength time and time again. And your asking a guy (Brownlee) who has 2 Olympic golds and more wins than most of your list combined to prove himself? That is just dumb

Frodeno lost the 70.3 World's in Canada when he underestimated Javier's run. He did not let that happen again in Austria, riding off the front and leaving both Keinle and Saunders in his dust.

I think you underestimate the (legal) advantage Saunders gets in every race sling shoting through the field until he reaches the lead pack.

\

The thing about IM Brazil is that it's infamous for the aerotow provided to the front biker. Last year when Tim went 4:22 on the bike there were videos posted of Brent Mcmahon enjoying the heck out of the lead moto and going 4:11. It looks as if perhaps it's possible that Tim learned a lesson from that and went right to the front from the get go. I'm sure we'll eventually get reports of how the front end of the race looked to others like we did last year.

AB has actually ridden off the front of the ITU lead pack a few times. The first time as a 20yr old at the 2008 Olympics (got reeled in) but more notably a couple years ago when he was injured, he went off the front of the bike to get a cushion for the run. (Edmonton ITU final I think?) He was also gapping off the front of the London 2012 pack towards the end, testing it. I don't know anyone that has ridden off the front of a brownlee bike pack.

So I think Monty is right. AB does not make the Uber biker list. He's actually retired the uber bikers. ;-)

well, if I ever bike 4:06 just once and even if the course is 12 miles short and at some local YMCA triathlon, I'm on the f'n list

Who the hell is Monty and why should we care at all about his list?

Phil Graves? If so he's concentrating on cycling these days. He had problems with running injuries.

Yes that was the guy, sorry to hear about his issues, but good he can still cycle. He was a monster on the bike, but for my category here you have to have had somewhat of a career longer than a couple years.

If anyone gets to make the approval list on Uberbikers it is Monty. He had a front row seat to a lot of this in the early days and invented stupid transition time saving gadgets like lace locks from camping gear.

Why did it happen in 2006 - AND 2008. Wouldn't you think you would learn your lesson? I don't know Tim, I just know if he was named Lance, or you were talking to someone with common sense.....that being busted (or conveniently missing the testing) 2X should result in questioning anything the guy lays down.

Does it take fitness and awesomeness to break the WR..YEP.....does his past make me question the legitimacy of his effort....YEP.

Why did it happen in 2006 - AND 2008. Wouldn't you think you would learn your lesson? I don't know Tim, I just know if he was named Lance, or you were talking to someone with common sense.....that being busted (or conveniently missing the testing) 2X should result in questioning anything the guy lays down.

Does it take fitness and awesomeness to break the WR..YEP.....does his past make me question the legitimacy of his effort....YEP.

Pubes? Kyle Yay? Romulus?

How many accounts do you need?

Phillip Graves?!?! Your list is a joke//


Go back and read the list, Phillip did not make it, we talked about it earlier. List ok for you now???

Not sure what races you are referring to, but Pigg was in a different class than Jimmy, and he would probably be the first to tell you that himself. But keep trying, gotta be at least one more I have forgotten.

There are plenty of races he [Jimmy] and Pigg did that. And plenty of other races where Pigg wasn't there and jimmy dusted the field on the bike and went on to win the race. There are race articles that cover all of this because I remember reading them. Or I was personally at the races. Maybe I'll just pull up the magazine articles and TV coverage from those races

Sindballe

Hellriegel

Thomas H. made my first cut, you must have missed him on my list on page 1 here. And for Sinballe, he also goes into the T.O., Spencer Smith, Wolfgang, and many other category. Had uber rides in his career, but I would not classify him as one of my complete uber riders. You yourself have had some uber rides too, but not enough or dominant enough to make that list of I think 13 I have now. Check it out closer and let me know what you think of all those guys.

---

Ok ok, you convinced me, or rather his results did. I do not recall that race, will have to go back and have a look...

Trobjorn Sinballe, come on down, you are an uber biker!!!!

So here is my updated list thus far:

Lionel Sanders
Sebastain Keinle
Starky
Cameron Dye
Bjorn Anderson
Marino Van Honniker
Norman Stadler
Chris Leito
Torbjorn Sinballe
Steve Larsen
Craig Walton
JurgenZack
Thomas Helleriegal
Mike Pigg
John Howard

Do you speak English?

So A.B rides solo in front of what was supposed to be a strong field (including your top 2 of this list, //

They are not the top 2, I just tried to put them in some sort of chronological order, so the top guys are the ones still competing.


And like I have said a few times now, one, two or a few uber rides does not make the uber biker. But you are right, about 95% confidence that in the next match up with Ali and a bunch of the guys on my list, he will get there with the fewest data points of anyone I have on my list.


Of course he has a huge ITU career dominating all comers, but it is just a tad more difficult to know just how good some of those guys are on the bike. We are finding out right now at this moment that he was certainly the class of that sport on the bike(as well as the other two events)


So no big deal if you want to anoint him right now after one event mixing it up with a couple big Ubers, I will wait for one more if you don't mind. Lets give Lionel one more chance, he did say he was well off his power in the last race, and Keinle is notoriously not on best form this early in the year, so maybe next time they both close 3 minutes on him and whoever decides to ride his pace out of the water..


I have said in other Lionel threads, I don't believe he left much on the table, a new paradigm for him now that he gets to swim a lot harder, gonna take a bit of watts off his bike. So I fully expect Ali to pretty much do the same thing as he just did, but it will be a much larger field with more uber bikers present, so should be a fitting end to my fence sitting.... (-;

Or maybe it was Ali who had the off day (It was only his 2nd Tri past Oly distance!) And the two uber bikers had a good day. //

Quite possible, not probable, that is why I would like just one more race with most the big names present, rested, and tapered to figure out where he fits into the whole non drafting echelon. If there are 10 super guys racing, not likely they will all have bad or off races on the same day...(-;

This has got to be one of the most derailed threads lately... //

No kidding, what was that derailleur thinking? It did say uber biker in the title though, so not that much of a stretch on the direction this thread has taken. Perhaps I should start a new one so everyone can get all riled up...(-;

What about Kenny Souza and Benny Vansteelant?

Another sport, but of course both those guys would make it for duathlon. Maybe Matt Brick too?

Ok ok, you convinced me, or rather his results did. I do not recall that race, will have to go back and have a look...

Trobjorn Sinballe, come on down, you are an uber biker!!!!

So here is my updated list thus far:

Lionel Sanders
Sebastain Keinle
Starky
Cameron Dye
Bjorn Anderson
Marino Van Honniker
Norman Stadler
Chris Leito
Torbjorn Sinballe
Steve Larsen
Craig Walton
JurgenZack
Thomas Helleriegal
Mike Pigg
John Howard

I know this will not be popular, but I vote to take Starky off. We are talking triathlon here. Uberbiker implies they are winning races on the bike. There are plenty that can ride fast when they go on a suicide mission and follow up the bike with a 4hr run/walk. If we are talking Ironman, he is not on the list. he has never been a factor in any race with real competition and it is unlikely that he ever even makes it to Kona again. IIRC his only IM win is FL 2012?

What if Tim's time is perfectly legit, legit course, no moto draft, drugs or anything else hinted at in this thread to discredit where does this kind of form put him in potentially for Kona 2017?

Not to get off topic, in case anybody cares 3 whereabouts failures post 2010 is at least a 1 year suspension some times 2 year. I'm sure there's slack given to emergency illness, child birth, death... Obviously some federations are some lenient than others (Russia v USADA)

https://www.usada.org/...g/results/sanctions/

My two cents on his "explanation" only really explains the last failure. Not the first three... WTF.

I had one whereabouts failure in 2011. I flew home for Thanksgiving on miles and decided to stay an extra couple days since there wasn't a change fee.
USADA came knocking at my door and I wasn't there. They called me and I said I was still in VA. After that ONE failure, I freaked out and always made sure I stayed in top of it.

Ah...the good ol days when 3 whereabouts failures only resulted as a 3mo suspension in the off season...

Spencer Smith could be in that conversation of strong bikers. He won Worlds in 1993, Manchester England by dusting the entire field including Simon Lessing on the bike when it was still non drafting. He could swim, bike and run. He may be overlooked because he could swim and run really well, where Pigg and Jimmy made their money with their bike splits.

Mark should email Jimmy and Pigg and let them list all the races Jimmy won or caught Pigg on the bike or caught Spencer Smith on the bike as he did in St. Croix.

USTS/Bud Light triathlon series 1992 in Arizona, I think, Jimmy biked a 53 minute 40k creating a 3+ minute leader after the bike and Greg Welch couldn't run him down. He cruised to victory running six minute pace after annihilating the field on that bike course. Jimmy had his fair share of mediocre finishes, because he was never a very good swimmer or runner, so if his bike wasn't on fire that day, then he would just have a mediocre finish. But, most of the time his bike leg showed up.

I biked with him at 1998 US Pro Nationals in CA (non drafting) along with Tony Deboom and a couple of others where I finished fourth and he finished behind me somewhere because I had a much better run than he did. Hunter Kemper outsprinted Nick Radekwich for the victory and Wes Hobson led the bike course that day and finished third ahead of me.

monty wrote:

If the "all time über list" who's a little cyclist?//

Well on my made up list here there is just one out of over a dozen. As I recall Thomas Hellereigal was a slight guy, maybe someone remembers exactly how big he was..A lot of guys your size rode really fast though, but uber riders do tend to be the bigger guys. Like you said, not substitute for power with Cda's not moving much.

In Athens, didn't Craig Walton drop everyone in the swim, take off on the bike, get a flat, get caught, change the flat, catch up and still get to T2 first? Crazy in a draft-legal race...

Don won the race by going of the front and holding on is ST just upset that he is not North American. //

I know I have been quite active in this thread, but Im not upset that Tim took advantage of his situation. Just about anyone in that position would do the same, has nothing to do whether he is North American or not, I like the guy. My only beef is how his performance is viewed, I just like to call a spade a spade. You don't just ride a 4;06 on a legit distance course at his size and power. But there are lots of cases like this one, this very race the year before! Astute pros get a feel for which races you need to get to the front in a hurry on, and if you want to win that better be part of your strategy.


Now I don't like that this happens, but it does and that is reality. People that race and don't accept realities, well they are just never going to be happy. I opted out of a lot of races in my career because I knew it would be something I would not be happy with afterwards, usually the opposite of a moto on the front though. I have to say I have taken advantage of that scenario more than once in my career, even raced too hard early to get it by myself a few times. Never to this races extent though, usually just a few minutes here and there getting camera shots. My gripes were with races that let a free for all behind the lead swim groups on the bike course, thus nullifying that portion of the race.

Are you talking about Olympics? If I recall correctly it was Hamish Carter and Bevan Docherty controlling the field on the main hill.

Don't think Craig Walton even made the Olympics.

In fact he didn't. Peter Robertson (one of the other best one day racers ITU has seen when he is on form) and Simon Thompson from Aus went. Looking through results Eneko Llanos got 20th, and he has done ok at ironman over the years, looks like he got dropped on the bike though. Andreas Raelert was also a minute slower than Docherty and Carter on the bike.

On that note, is Sven Reiderer still going?

fulla wrote:

Why not? There are plenty of pro cyclists that size and smaller who would crush that time. Contador is smaller than him I'm pretty sure. Look at George Bennett's last tt effort in the tour of california on a relatively flat course. He is listed at 58kgs. I'm sure he'd crush any triathlete on the bike.

He's listed at 5'10" 154lb. I don't know how accurate that is, but that's a lot of muscle for 5'10", so I'm not sure he counts as "small".

I'm 5'10" and 154 in race shape.
Nobody has ever said I have a *lot* of muscle at my size.

Now, compared to Rappstar, who's like 4" taller and probably weighs the same or less, I look like a MMA fighter and he looks like a POW. ;-)
So "big" and "small" are relative terms.

First - I'd argue Bennett would not crush any triathlete on the bike - if you're talking about a long distance TT.

Forget about Tim. What about Kienle who spanked him in both the bike and run at St. George and has a pretty darn good track record in Kona already.

two more names for uberbiker list:
Andrew McNaughton
Conrad Stoltz

Andrew was a great rider, but honestly 1/2the time we raced together I would beat him on the bike or come off together. Similar to Cam Widoff they would both do super at Wildflower showing potential to really be at the pinnacle of the sport. But different courses for different horses, and they were just regular podium guys through most of their careers. And Brad Kearns would almost routinely ride with Andrew in all their races..


Conrad like Souza was in a different sport, so hard for me to gauge those guys. But if we are talking Xterra the list would have to start with Ned Overand for sure. He is the one guy I know was an uber biker in that world..

And people keep bringing up this one example but keep leaving out that Björn's aero bar broke off at the beginning of the ride. See how fast you ride holding on with one arm for over a 100+ miles on a very hilly course. And even with that real handicap, he only lost about 10 minutes to an admitted fully doped to the gills pro tour peloton rider.

Seems like with all that information that it reinforces the closeness of the riders.

add to that the 10,000ft of climbing at Silverman making a much more of a "climber's" ride than a normal time trial make Bjorn's performance even more remarkable against a DOPED TO THE GILLS uber climber.

The Don switched his nutrition this year entirely. He's now on the entire First Endurance line. He's training better than ever and able to sustain full effort for the entire Ironman.

add to that the 10,000ft of climbing at Silverman making a much more of a "climber's" ride than a normal time trial make Bjorn's performance even more remarkable against an uber climber.

You keep mixing up Athens ('04) with Sydney ('00). Stoltz and Walton broke away and "controlled" the bike at the Sydney games. But, having talked to Simon Whitfield and others who were there, it's because nobody actually cared. They were never a threat to win or even medal. ITU racing is like that - sometimes really impressive rides are just the result of tactical decisions by the pack to not chase. That's why Alistair is credible as an uber biker based on his ITU performances. Because nobody wants to let him get away, and he still does it.

And people keep bringing up this one example but keep leaving out that Björn's aero bar broke off at the beginning of the ride. See how fast you ride holding on with one arm for over a 100+ miles on a very hilly course. And even with that real handicap, he only lost about 10 minutes to an admitted fully doped to the gills pro tour peloton rider.

Seems like with all that information that it reinforces the closeness of the riders.

FIFY.

The Don switched his nutrition this year entirely. He's now on the entire First Endurance line. He's training better than ever and able to sustain full effort for the entire Ironman.

He lost by more than 10minutes. I don't know about the aerobar thing, Bjorn looked pretty normal when I saw him riding that day. Maybe it was a big problem, maybe not. the doped to the gill comment is irrelevant . . . current pro tour riders are doped just as much as they were then, and I doubt very much that the pro triathlon ranks are squeaky clean.

Even Lance got smoked by Kienle at the Galveston 70.3....it's amazing how badly pro cyclist start to sucking at cycling after the swim, when they actually have to do with triathletes do.

Cameron Wurf is not quite at the level of Richie Porte

First - I'd argue Bennett would not crush any triathlete on the bike - if you're talking about a long distance TT. There is some difference between a 24km TT, which Bennett did good in, and a 180km TT. I'd also argue - but here I'm going out on a limb - that you cannot automatically compare a 58kg cyclist to a 58kg triathlete. Physically I'd guess there two are quite differently built.

Say again?!?! The way I remember it, Kienle tried, but had trouble getting away, and instead rode in the pack of 3. (So funny how ST loves to make shit up). Oh, and Lance was also 41 at the time.

Sebastian Kienle: Swim: 00:26:10; Bike 2:03:43

Lance Armstong: Swim: 00:23:28; Bike 2:05:10

Say again?!?! The way I remember it, Kienle tried, but had trouble getting away, and instead rode in the pack of 3. (So funny how ST loves to make shit up). Oh, and Lance was also 41 at the time.

Sebastian Kienle: Swim: 00:26:10; Bike 2:03:43

Lance Armstong: Swim: 00:23:28; Bike 2:05:10

c'mon now, dev - if pro triathletes were so damned good at cycling, they'd be cyclists.

and anyway, for every udo bolts, there's a spencer smith: a hard-riding triathlete who moves over to pro cycling and is underwhelming. i think back in the 90s some triathletes (pigg? riccitello? zack?) put together a team for an american stage race, and did fine, but weren't overwhelming anyone.

horses for courses and all that. . .

Chris Hinshaw was living with Pigg at that time and did that bike race with them. //

Man the internet can really be like a game of telephone sometimes. First the slight on Bjorn, which I debunked to no avail, and now Bjorn himself has told his story(same as mine)


The race that this guy is referring to is one I and a few others put together, so I know something about that one too. There was no Chris Hinshaw, not even close. IT was the 1993 Redlands Classic, the top stage race in the US at the time. Over 40 pro and national bike race teams entered, but only 25 would be selected. We got in on a special entry, mostly because of our fast talking..


So the team was myself, Mike Pigg, Kenny Souza, Jimmy Ricatello, Jurgen Zack, Tom Resh, and Bruce Reid. All of us were either pro triathletes, or in the case of Tom and Bruce had done several(Tom was a 30 10k runner in college as I recall too) There were a lot of grumblings from the cycling teams that we got let in when 15 other teams were frozen out.


Long story short, we got 9th overall, ahead of the Saturn, Swamais, and Canadian national team among over a dozen other pro teams. And we did not really ride that well overall.


Jurgen got sick 1/2 through, Kenny had trouble staying in the draft of the 170 man fields(not because of speed, but just haired out), I got a musett bag thrown into my rear shifter and it got sucked into my wheel in the long hard road race, limped in with two gears, 53/13--42/13 and barley made the cuttoff time to continue.


But each day I believe it was either 4 or 5 of your top guys scored and we always had enough to be competitive. Mike Pigg was the star, never got dropped once the entire race, making the 3 man break up the steepest climb.e was 15th overall GC less than a minute and a half behind the winner(who was later popped for drugs) The rest of us filled the spots enough to get good points and a really good team placing.


The next year a.team made up of all professional mountain bikers did the same thing as us, they got 11th overall. I would say we do ok for ourselves, and represented triathletes quite well...

First of all, please don't attribute a single post of mine to "ST making up shit". There is no one who controls ST, just blame it on me. Secondly, Kienle out biked Lance at Galveston. That case is closed. You even posted the splits (and yes, Lance rode a bit like an idiot standing up and accelerating instead of staying aero and steady). Third, Lance was not 41, he was 40. Joop Zoetemelk raced protour right up to that age and won Tirenno Adriatico at 39. Ekimov was doing just fine at 40, and closer to home Cam Brown keeps winning races in his early 40's in triathlon (as we Lance), Bottom like Kienle outibike Lance and Galveston

First of all, please don't attribute a single post of mine to "ST making up shit". There is no one who controls ST, just blame it on me. Secondly, Kienle out biked Lance at Galveston. That case is closed. You even posted the splits (and yes, Lance rode a bit like an idiot standing up and accelerating instead of staying aero and steady). Third, Lance was not 41, he was 40. Joop Zoetemelk raced protour right up to that age and won Tirenno Adriatico at 39. Ekimov was doing just fine at 40, and closer to home Cam Brown keeps winning races in his early 40's in triathlon (as we Lance), Bottom like Kienle outibike Lance and Galveston

So a pro cyclist who won the tour of california, competes in grand tours etc, is going to be less 'fit' than an ironman athlete for a longer TT? My understanding is that Bennett was doing some long rides on the TT bike over the offseason in order to improve.

There are plenty of pro cyclists in the sub 70kg range who would crush triathletes and also beat 70kg plus pro cyclists in TTs. It's not always the bigger guy who wins.

Are you suggesting two of the best three rides by Don followed missed drug tests?