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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
You have aid stations ever 10 miles what exactly do you need for a really long race?

The two halfs i did i had a between the bars bottle , aero bottle and on the top tube, with the spare jammed and hidden under the seat. Now that im running clinchers it would be even easier. I think you guys make this too complicated.

There's this thing called a 100 mile training ride, and I don't know about you, but I don't have support stations every 10 miles for that. Also, I carry a phone, possibly keys, credit card/cash. Maybe some glide if something starts chafing. Maps/Directions. And maybe some tools. Oh, and multiple spares.

You see, if you do long course, you have to train long course in the position. Sorry, can't afford/don't want a separate training and racing bike. Sure I troll craigslist for the mythical clone for $1000, but that isn't happening.

The Trek SC showed you can have your cake and eat it too. A stripped down bikes sans accessories, and one with lots of mount points. Yes, it's fun dumping a lot of the training junk for a sprint. But that's a very limited use. I'm not dumping 5k-10k on a couple days a year bike.

If you don't want those options, there are a ton of bikes out there, and there is little to improve on those from a UCI standpoint. However, even the stripped down single bottle "use case" still benefits from an integrated system.

As for behind the seat, it's apparent there's a lot of design that goes into the seat tube and seat post over the last five years. Most people have the dual hanging bottles, but I see that right in the airflow that's channeled by your thighs after it passes around the aero seat tube. That's gonna drag. So is that tire and two air canisters.

What I described provides UCI and non-UCI aerodynamics options, integrated hydration up front, integrated fluid storage for refills, integrated spare kit storage. And some people think that's excessive? Crap, there's people who's entire careers are spent on the ergonomics of phone buttons.

Cervelo, Specialize, and Trek have shown a willingness to put design effort and thorough wind tunnel testing into their bikes. The market has showed interest.

Don't even get me started on Torhans vs Profile keel bottles.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
you can mount your bottles and food however you want for training rides, aero doesn't matter then.

I was typing out a nice long reply but said screw it, this pretty much sums it up anyways.

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Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Touche...is this a common use of those mounts, or are they typically used for something else? I don't believe I've seen anyone with a top tube-mounted bottle on a SC, but then again, most people in my neck of the woods ride Cervelo so I don't see a large variety of SC configurations...

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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Carl wrote:
Well...the topube speedbox mounts on the SC are spaced the same as for bottle cages...might've even been on purpose ;-)

The obvious problem with that is you have to mount it so the bottle is backwards (the spout is facing the seat post and not the stem).

Plus, there's a high probability you'll rack yourself on the water bottle at some point. Not that I'd know from experience or anything. ;-)

2018 Races:
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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I like this guy!
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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Based on that long list of requirements, this is what image popped into my mind.

...the Homer.


The fastest bike doesn't need all the bells and whistles.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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You have to wonder how roadies (myself included) can survive training rides 100-200 miles on a bike with only two bottle mounts. If you're the thirsty kind, slap on two behind the saddle bottle mounts and you're golden. You see, a while ago somebody invented this 'pocket' thing on the jersey. It's very convenient.
Last edited by: MTM: Dec 15, 11 2:03
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
You have to wonder how roadies (myself included) can survive training rides 100-200 miles on a bike with only two bottle mounts. If you're the thirsty kind, slap on two behind the saddle bottle mounts and you're golden. You see, a while ago somebody invented this 'pocket' thing on the jersey. It's very convenient.

I don't wonder. I know them. They ride 2 hours, stop, have a coffee and food, get back on, ride 2 hours, stop, have a coffee and food etc....

OR

The really hard core roadie types who do ride the 6 to 7 hours simply stop and refill bottles along the way.

Keep in mind, it's fine and dandy to ride 6 or so hours on little food and water. get off and relax and rehydrate and refuel.

But for triathletes - they might want to consider conditioning their stomach a little better so they can tolerate the consumption required to get off the bike and continue moving for another 3 or more hours.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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Best method I've heard for getting it past the wife was "okay darling, it cost closer to three thousand than two" Indeed it did, but it totaled six thousand!
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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Don't know if anyone has posted this, but it shows what the front end and back may look like on the new P5...they were being a bit evasive about saying with any certainty but it sure looks like it may be the next progression: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6vUY5RE3VI

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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [djciii] [ In reply to ]
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I remember watching this when Nick first posted it. Really great video and thanks for raising it again. That Canadian accent cracks me up every time too!
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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You have to wonder how roadies (myself included) can survive training rides 100-200 miles on a bike with only two bottle mounts. If you're the thirsty kind, slap on two behind the saddle bottle mounts and you're golden. You see, a while ago somebody invented this 'pocket' thing on the jersey. It's very convenient.

Martin,

Careful. Dev's going to come on here and slap you down for talking down to triathletes. Not sure why, you are just suggesting the obvious, or perhaps the not-so-obvious.

I agree with you. I can ride over 100 k with two bottles on the bike, and food and whatever else I need in the pockets of my jersey, before needing to stop.






Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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Common, no. We put them in for a clean attachment of our SC SpeedBox accessory. Making the spacing appropriate for accessories which otherwise use bottle cage mounts just seemed like a nice option to offer. Avoids some of the hackery that goes with trying to put something on a bike when either the thing or the bike wasn't designed with that item in mind in the first place.

Carl Matson
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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We triathletes tend to over complicate things. I agree with you Fleck as two bottles is normally more than enough. If I am doing a ride where I know I might be without water for a longer period of time then I just have the two on the frame, one between the aerobars and a saddle bag for my flat kit. Mini pump, phone and ID in middle pocket and food in the outer pockets.

In the old days it was just two bottle on the frame, saddle bag, ID, frame pump and some food.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMANX: Dec 15, 11 6:07
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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I looked into reworking the existing stock of Speed Bottle cages to add a set of holes which would allow the forwards orientation, but it was a no-go. Besides, I'm not sure the backwards orientation of the bottle is a bad thing...I find the angles I have to bend my wrist & elbow very awkward if I want to grab the bottle "thumb up" when it's oriented valve-forward. Particularly if I want to do this while keeping my other arm on the extensions.

Carl Matson
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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hell I have done 100+ mile rides with roadies on a p2k

ONE BOTTLE MOUNT!

I do kind of look like a missile launcher with all the bottles in my jersey though

Fleck wrote:
You have to wonder how roadies (myself included) can survive training rides 100-200 miles on a bike with only two bottle mounts. If you're the thirsty kind, slap on two behind the saddle bottle mounts and you're golden. You see, a while ago somebody invented this 'pocket' thing on the jersey. It's very convenient.

Martin,

Careful. Dev's going to come on here and slap you down for talking down to triathletes. Not sure why, you are just suggesting the obvious, or perhaps the not-so-obvious.

I agree with you. I can ride over 100 k with two bottles on the bike, and food and whatever else I need in the pockets of my jersey, before needing to stop.






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Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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ZackC. wrote:
I'm still not sold on the idea of a bottle between the bars, mostly because I lose my mounting point for my 310.

I have a bottle b/w the bars and have a mounting spot for my 500/310 right in the bend of the j-bends, which is the easiest place to see it. They're not mutually exclusive.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Avoids some of the hackery that goes with trying to put something on a bike when either the thing or the bike wasn't designed with that item in mind in the first place.

Carl,

What are you saying - triathletes don't know what they are doing? Dev is going to get you for that! ;-)

In all seriousness, I applaud you and the designers at Trek for coming up with some elegant and practical
( and aero!!) solutions on the SC's addressing the dilemma of where to put stuff on the bike( you do need to carry a few things). I agree with you that if you walk through the transition zone of a big IM race, it's an aerodynamic horror show on many bikes!



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Dec 15, 11 7:15
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:

I agree with you. I can ride over 100 k with two bottles on the bike, and food and whatever else I need in the pockets of my jersey, before needing to stop.




Correct me if I am wrong, but you live in Canada right? I would be willing to bet that the heat and humidity that some others experience more often than our friends to the north might require more and two bottles every 100k.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [bwain] [ In reply to ]
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Correct me if I am wrong, but you live in Canada right? I would be willing to bet that the heat and humidity that some others experience more often than our friends to the north might require more and two bottles every 100k.

Indeed. But it does get hot up here and my strategy does not change.

Last winter we flew to to Tucson for a week of training. First ride due to timing we headed out the door for a 3 hour ride at 12:00 noon. It was in the high 80's by that point. Two big bottles on the bike, and a few gels, made it round the loop just fine.

Many (newer) endurance athletes seem to either grossly over or under-estimate both their caloric and hydration needs. I chalk this up to experience. I have been doing this for a very long time and know exactly what my body needs.





Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [bwain] [ In reply to ]
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bwain wrote:
Fleck wrote:

I agree with you. I can ride over 100 k with two bottles on the bike, and food and whatever else I need in the pockets of my jersey, before needing to stop.





Correct me if I am wrong, but you live in Canada right? I would be willing to bet that the heat and humidity that some others experience more often than our friends to the north might require more and two bottles every 100k.

I live in Iowa and two bottles is fine for 100k even in summer. If you are that dehydrated that quickly you are most likely dehydrated before you start. You don't need 100 percent replenishment of fluids and fuel on the bike ride. If its really bad I freeze another bottle and put it in my jersey pocket to exchange. Its really not that difficult.

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De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Haha they are if you have a tiny bike/cockpit. My aerobars are so short that a standard water bottle takes up the whole bar + the part of the ski bend that my hands don't occupy #T-RexArms

I have seen a mount for the 310 that bolts into the top cap. I could do a bottle between the bars if I got that special mount.

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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Well 3 bottles would be about right during a summer ride of around 100k here in Atlanta too. Of course 3 bottles is 50% more fluid than 2 bottles. I am not looking to keep my hydration levels topped of, but I am also not looking to be super dehydrated when I'm done because after most rides like that I am running off the bike too. Even if I wasn't, keeping a good hydration level (not totally depressed) has no drawbacks in recovery nor does it have potential drawbacks for my workout the next day.
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