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P5 - Any guesses on fork diameter? [ In reply to ]
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After reading the BikeRadar site, the front end sounds very interesting if they are correct. The way that I read it is that it will have a front end that is not unique to the rest of their frame (i.e. it might be adaptable to other frames). If you put a very aero front end onto some of the more vintage bikes (including the bolt on nose cone), this might be a very interesting combination for those who love their softrides and zipps, but which were not getting any updates since they are no longer produced. The only caviat would be that it needs to be a 1" steer tube (although I am not sure if some of the late model softrides were 1 1/8). Personally I ride a titanflex and would love the option of a more aero front end. Right now I use a reynolds ouzo pro aero with a ventus, but would love to have a cleaner looking nosecone/ 'integrated' front brakes look of the speed concept.

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
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Re: P5 - Any guesses on fork diameter? [stephen J] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt it's going to be bolt on for just any old bike. I'm sure it's specific to the P5
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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I would like to see an all out non UCI TT bike, but i don't think thats the P5s goal.

Indeed. It will be interesting to see how the new Specialized Shiv catches on. Specialized, clearly threw down the gauntlet and said, "forget the UCI. Triathletes here is a bike for you"!

If we are the believe some of the words spoken here and elsewhere in the business triathletes always go for the companies making product for them!

But Cervelo, has been HUGELY successful in the triathlon bike market, making UCI legal bikes, that in many cases don't even fit the "average" triathlete that well!

Consequently it will be interesting to see what Cervelo comes up with. They have always said, that they will not just change things for changes sake, but wait until they have innovations that really improve things.





Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Dec 14, 11 10:18
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Well, here's the standard being established, and if Cervelo wants to make a true superbike....

1) Fast across a wide swath of wind angles. Good on megacrosswinds (IM cozumel, arizona, sometimes wisconsin).
2) Integrated storage: The Trek SC has the rear-wheel storage, and a module designed for the usual bento box that is better designed and (AFAIK) doesn't constantly flop to the side like the typical bento box. When are they going to put mounting screws on this area so we can get more secure mounts?
3) Integrated hydration: The P4 had a largely unusable water bottle, really that would have only been usable for storage. The Shiv has the fluid bladder. The Nosecone shiv would probably have perfectly fit a customized aerobar keel water bottle of some sort, that could be a more flexible alternative to what the Shiv is doing.
4) and the latest round of bikes have fully internal routing, although at the cost of bar customization
5) there's the front brake cabling problem, which Cervelo seems to have specifically targetted and we've seen with the centerpull front brakes coming out.

The integrated storage and hydration options are the most important design goals that superbike makers aren't chasing enough. I guess the ideal superbike I'd buy would be UCI legal, but have all the integrated storage options to make it non-UCI but triathlon legal:

- Nosecose attachment that can be storage or keel fluid holder, and provides the nosecone aero advantage for non-UCI events
- Trek SC's rear storage (although that is somewhat dependent on the Kamm blade design) for the spares/tools: another fairing for non-UCI
- Cervelo P4 integrated waterbottle or storage compartment, yet another non-UCI fairing
- Bento box screw mounts for a fixed bento box accessory
- Hell, throw in the shiv downtube bladder.

And make it all easily cleanable. That would be just an awesome bike for ironmans, half ironmans, long rides. That design isn't just for TT bikes. That's a recipe for aero road bikes too, that would be a pleasure to train with.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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I think Fleck, Dragon and many of the voices I keep hearing illustrate what a difficult task bike manufacturers have in trying to make everyone happy. I'll throw my thoughts out there just as another opinion with the idea that I'm not alone in what I like. Dragon's idea of what makes a true superbike is the polar opposite to what I would be looking for. That description strikes me as a super SUV. A megatron like bike that has bladders and add-on's and storage compartments and relaxed geometry....don't need it, don't want it, revolted by it. I see this trend towards looking at the bike as the means to store a days worth of nutrition, tools, supplies more of a recreational athletes bike, not a race bike. Give me aggressive, light, clean and aero and leave the rest alone. Which, as I initially stated, makes for a difficult task for any bike manufacturer.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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Totally agree with CowardlyDragon. I'm confident that even the latest superbikes with lots of junk hanging off, two seat mounted bottles and a bunch of gels taped on would have more drag than a bike a couple of generations back that is being run in a clean configuration. Designing a bike so that it can carry what is needed for a long race and yet STILL performs at or close to a "clean" bike would seem to be the easier engineering task. It would probably save a lot more time in a real race situation as well.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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You have aid stations ever 10 miles what exactly do you need for a really long race?

The two halfs i did i had a between the bars bottle , aero bottle and on the top tube, with the spare jammed and hidden under the seat. Now that im running clinchers it would be even easier. I think you guys make this too complicated.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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When you put it like that I would agree but you don't need to have either/or situation. You can keep things clean for any distance race (even the one or two IM distances one might enter each year) without having all the junk hanging off. I want my bike to be a stiletto others prefer a leatherman. Viva la differance
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [SpencerDC] [ In reply to ]
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I see this trend towards looking at the bike as the means to store a days worth of nutrition, tools,

They make those bikes . . . they are called touring bikes! ;-)

Kidding aside, I thought one of the best innovations recently, germane to triathletes, was on the Trek SC with the aero storage places. At a bare minimum in a longer distance triathlon you'll have to carry some things. Now clearly many go over-board with this as noted, but for those minimal things that you have to carry, the Trek SC has some practical solutions for that.





Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Dec 14, 11 10:32
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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I couldn't agree more. I half expect people to start complaining that "superbikes" don't include seat heaters, powered fit adjustments, and rear-view mirrors.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
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while I am quite fond of the minimalist approach to carry crap as well, the p4 and SC do offer a nice way to carry a spare kit, that you can't really duplicate on other bikes.

i would have been 5, 6 seconds faster at savageman with such a solution =)



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [cowardlydragon] [ In reply to ]
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This list is ridiculous.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:
Totally agree with CowardlyDragon. I'm confident that even the latest superbikes with lots of junk hanging off, two seat mounted bottles and a bunch of gels taped on would have more drag than a bike a couple of generations back that is being run in a clean configuration. Designing a bike so that it can carry what is needed for a long race and yet STILL performs at or close to a "clean" bike would seem to be the easier engineering task. It would probably save a lot more time in a real race situation as well.

This is a fault of the user, not the bike.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
helo guy wrote:
Totally agree with CowardlyDragon. I'm confident that even the latest superbikes with lots of junk hanging off, two seat mounted bottles and a bunch of gels taped on would have more drag than a bike a couple of generations back that is being run in a clean configuration. Designing a bike so that it can carry what is needed for a long race and yet STILL performs at or close to a "clean" bike would seem to be the easier engineering task. It would probably save a lot more time in a real race situation as well.


This is a fault of the user, not the bike.

Not always.

For instance, say on my P3 I use a horizontally mounted bottle up front as recommended, and an aero bottle on the downtube. According to ST, this is a good solution. Now, where do I put a spare tube and C02? Currently I use a small bike bag that I put behind the seat so it is (more or less) shielded by the wind, but I don't think that is ideal.

If I had a bottle like on the P4 I would not only have a place to put my spare tube and tools, but it would also make the bike MORE aerodynamic, not less, at least according to Cervelo. The storage box the Trek's Speed concept uses is a similar idea. Of course now I am down 1 water bottle. The bladder in the new Shiv would fix that. Somebody who carried more stuff would have even more potential benefit.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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PUT IT UNDER YOUR SEAT! GOOD GRIEF!
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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I don't understand why more manufacturers don't put aero bottles on the top tube, toward the front. It seems to me the easiest place to reach a bottle, and surely one like the Bontrager that's almost as narrow as a steerer tube would be fairly fast, right? If you were to do some sort of tubing system such that you didn't have to unclip the bottle to drink from it, the tubing routing would be similar to the Specialized Fuelselage system, but it would be a more flexible/ less proprietary system which should offer something from a convenience standpoint. Or perhaps this has already been done and I'm just behind the times?

I'm still not sold on the idea of a bottle between the bars, mostly because I lose my mounting point for my 310.

I think it's funny to see people "sabotage" their bikes aerodynamically with all the shit they think they "need" for an oly or a half (don't even get me started on people's setups for sprints!)

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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:
James Haycraft wrote:
helo guy wrote:
Totally agree with CowardlyDragon. I'm confident that even the latest superbikes with lots of junk hanging off, two seat mounted bottles and a bunch of gels taped on would have more drag than a bike a couple of generations back that is being run in a clean configuration. Designing a bike so that it can carry what is needed for a long race and yet STILL performs at or close to a "clean" bike would seem to be the easier engineering task. It would probably save a lot more time in a real race situation as well.


This is a fault of the user, not the bike.


Not always.

For instance, say on my P3 I use a horizontally mounted bottle up front as recommended, and an aero bottle on the downtube. According to ST, this is a good solution. Now, where do I put a spare tube and C02? Currently I use a small bike bag that I put behind the seat so it is (more or less) shielded by the wind, but I don't think that is ideal.

If I had a bottle like on the P4 I would not only have a place to put my spare tube and tools, but it would also make the bike MORE aerodynamic, not less, at least according to Cervelo. The storage box the Trek's Speed concept uses is a similar idea. Of course now I am down 1 water bottle. The bladder in the new Shiv would fix that. Somebody who carried more stuff would have even more potential benefit.

I do the same on my P2 and carry my flat kit in a small saddle bag.The challenge is long training rides in the heat, when I often do need an extra pair of bottle behind the saddle and, even then, I will need to refill. Races have aid stations every 10-13 miles. Training rides on country roads, not so much. I remember one hot day (105+) I went through two bottles in less than 20 miles.

As for using the P4 bottle as a flat kit, I don't care for that approach, because then I am losing a bottle where I would prefer to have one. Also, having played around with a P4 bottle, I found getting it out to be awkward. I think my wife, with her smaller hands, would have had an even harder time.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:


For instance, say on my P3 I use a horizontally mounted bottle up front as recommended, and an aero bottle on the downtube. According to ST, this is a good solution. Now, where do I put a spare tube and C02? Currently I use a small bike bag that I put behind the seat so it is (more or less) shielded by the wind, but I don't think that is ideal.

tape it to your top tube immediately behind the steer tube or use a mini-bento. then it will fill in the low pressure area immediately behind the steer tube and improve flow through the area - assuming you're not running a ventus or other base bar with aero spacers.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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nickwhite wrote:
PUT IT UNDER YOUR SEAT! GOOD GRIEF!

A correctly engineered storage space like the P4 bottle or SC box increases the aspect ratio of parts of the bike AND MAKES IT MORE AERODYNAMIC THAN IF NO STORAGE SPACE WAS THERE.

Why do people think this is bad?

Why do you think that putting a not at all aerodynamic tool bag right behind the P3's nice airfoil shaped seatpost is a good thing? Don't you think Cervelo made the seatpost that shape for a reason?
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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You know he doesnt mean on the seat post right. He literally means under and behind the seat.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:
nickwhite wrote:
PUT IT UNDER YOUR SEAT! GOOD GRIEF!


A correctly engineered storage space like the P4 bottle or SC box increases the aspect ratio of parts of the bike AND MAKES IT MORE AERODYNAMIC THAN IF NO STORAGE SPACE WAS THERE.

Why do people think this is bad?

Why do you think that putting a not at all aerodynamic tool bag right behind the P3's nice airfoil shaped seatpost is a good thing? Don't you think Cervelo made the seatpost that shape for a reason?

Don't use a tool bag. I put a tube, a tire lever, and a 5mm allen wrench into a baggie and then stuff that between the saddle rails and hold it in place with a piece of duct tape. My CO2 inflator get's taped to the top of my stem between my arms. The "baggie" taped up under the saddle fills in an open space and is likely more aero than a separate saddle bag.

That said, I've found that the new Lezyne "Micro Caddy S" saddle bags fit "up and under" an Adamo saddle REALLY nicely. You can wedge it up between the saddle rails fairly easily. The downside is that it then blocks off the "transition hook" of the saddle so you have to rack it under the "prongs" in front.




http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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Well...the topube speedbox mounts on the SC are spaced the same as for bottle cages...might've even been on purpose ;-)

Carl Matson
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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The issue here is that common sense is not that common these days. There are many ways to keep things out of the wind while keeping a bike very aero but people are always trying to overcomplicate things.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, that's my 100 mile TT setup on the SC - 3 x Bontrager aero bottles, 1 down tube, 1 top tube, 1 aerobars. The top tube mounts really should be standard on all bikes.
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Re: P5 news today... brace yourselves! [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:
nickwhite wrote:
PUT IT UNDER YOUR SEAT! GOOD GRIEF!


A correctly engineered storage space like the P4 bottle or SC box increases the aspect ratio of parts of the bike AND MAKES IT MORE AERODYNAMIC THAN IF NO STORAGE SPACE WAS THERE.

Why do people think this is bad?

Why do you think that putting a not at all aerodynamic tool bag right behind the P3's nice airfoil shaped seatpost is a good thing? Don't you think Cervelo made the seatpost that shape for a reason?


I said under your seat. Not "under your seat in a toolbag". I don't think a toolbag is ever a good idea. Are you absolutely sure a speed concept's draft box is advantageous in all wind angles?
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