Good point, I forget about the obvious ones like those!
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Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [trail]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [trail]
[ In reply to ]
i agree about this! i love zwift for racing, but i find it so annoying to be spammed all the time with wheel and bike ads. i hope paying users can disable that stuff.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [Bonesbrigade]
[ In reply to ]
Seems to me with this price increase, Zwift is asking for a competitor to come along. I guess until that happens, they can do whatever they want. I am glad I got on board with the $10 fee just a few weeks ago.
I went to a Zwift event last Monday and I asked a few questions about the product mostly around drafting. IMO how Zwift implements their drafting feature seems a bit odd.
Here is how Drafting currently works in Zwift
"Different bikes in Zwift have different drafting attributes. You shouldn't feel a big difference while drafting but you should see your speed slightly increase with the same amount of watts being used. Or when in the draft (within a meter of someone) you should be able to slightly decrease the wattage to keep your speed the same. The effect of the draft will change whether you are in a larger group or behind one person or dependent on what bike you are on. In workout mode and on the TT bike drafting is disabled."
My question was something along the lines of "When I come up behind someone in Zwift and I am in the draft, I don't really feel much resistance change if any on the trainer. I said in the real world you definitely feel the resistance change as you tuck in behind someone.
The Zwift person I talked to said something along the lines "I don't feel much difference when I draft". I was like whaaat?? You don't feel any difference when you're riding outside and drafting? They said no not really....Head slap.
They said besides, not many people are asking about the drafting functionality and Zwift has other more important things to work on. Hmmmm.
They did say they were expecting to have something for the Apple TV soon.
https://GearMashers.com - Cycling Enthusiast and Reviewer.
I went to a Zwift event last Monday and I asked a few questions about the product mostly around drafting. IMO how Zwift implements their drafting feature seems a bit odd.
Here is how Drafting currently works in Zwift
"Different bikes in Zwift have different drafting attributes. You shouldn't feel a big difference while drafting but you should see your speed slightly increase with the same amount of watts being used. Or when in the draft (within a meter of someone) you should be able to slightly decrease the wattage to keep your speed the same. The effect of the draft will change whether you are in a larger group or behind one person or dependent on what bike you are on. In workout mode and on the TT bike drafting is disabled."
My question was something along the lines of "When I come up behind someone in Zwift and I am in the draft, I don't really feel much resistance change if any on the trainer. I said in the real world you definitely feel the resistance change as you tuck in behind someone.
The Zwift person I talked to said something along the lines "I don't feel much difference when I draft". I was like whaaat?? You don't feel any difference when you're riding outside and drafting? They said no not really....Head slap.
They said besides, not many people are asking about the drafting functionality and Zwift has other more important things to work on. Hmmmm.
They did say they were expecting to have something for the Apple TV soon.
https://GearMashers.com - Cycling Enthusiast and Reviewer.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [GearMashers]
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Half the time on Zwift I'm in erg mode and I just background it and watch a movie anyhow. And for that I can just load up PerfPro studio which doesn't have a monthly fee at all.
I won't say I'm quitting Zwift entirely but they will definitely lose me as a subscriber during the summer months now.
No, $5/mo isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things. But everyone wants recurring monthly revenue these days and it starts stacking up and getting annoying.
I won't say I'm quitting Zwift entirely but they will definitely lose me as a subscriber during the summer months now.
No, $5/mo isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things. But everyone wants recurring monthly revenue these days and it starts stacking up and getting annoying.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [Bonesbrigade]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
Jonathan22 wrote:
Bonesbrigade wrote:
They don't really have a direct competitor so they shouldn't have a problem pulling this off (I'm not sure TR would be considered a direct competitor).
There is one in the works:https://www.roadgrandtours.com/[/quote[/url]]
Only a matter of time! I'm certainly not surprised. It's going to take some good ideas and a lot of work to grab a large chunk of Zwift's market I would think. Zwift has a pretty massive head start.
Has any competitor made inroads to Strava yet? Getting there first is huge in these small markets. Time will tell I guess - there is certainly room for more Zwift-type experiences.
Forget competitors to Zwift. Trainerroad's a solid product that delivers, yes, but come on man - that's gotta be one of the easiest apps to code, ever. A freaking graph that shows you your power numbers, and a few plans from a coach, with some social functionality built-in, and they've got like thousands of folks shelling out $10/month for it.
If I had a little more know-how in app and software development, I'd target Trainerroad before Zwift as a competitor - just make an alternate view that doesn't use the exact same graph interface, hire or partner with BETTER coaches (and give them a cut, kind of like the cycling studios do with their 'star' coaches), incorporate some "spin class" like features with video so you can compete with Peloton, and you're good to go. None of these require brand-new technology; I'll bet an experience app coder could write the entire thing in less than a week.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
We all got Rapped! Thanks a lot Rappstar!
"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [lightheir]
[ In reply to ]
Ha, so true! TR is so ridiculously basic in appearance, but I'm sure it's still not 'easy' to replicate.
It is rather surprising nobody has come along and improved on TR - maybe that hasn't happened because the market seems to be going toward the Zwift model and nobody wants to invest in a sinking market? Not sure, I personally prefer TR to Zwift, but I think I'm in the clear minority as I don't think any of my cycling friends/teammates have even heard of TR!
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It is rather surprising nobody has come along and improved on TR - maybe that hasn't happened because the market seems to be going toward the Zwift model and nobody wants to invest in a sinking market? Not sure, I personally prefer TR to Zwift, but I think I'm in the clear minority as I don't think any of my cycling friends/teammates have even heard of TR!
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Bonesbrigade: Nov 16, 17 10:50
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [jkhayc]
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Just opened up that email myself. I have to say that I have been using Zwift a lot more than TrainerRoad the last few months. I stopped using Zwift because I don't really care for the "game" aspect of it so I would use TR and watch TV/movies at the same time. But a lot of my workouts are under an hour and have intense intervals so it is hard to pay attention to anything besides the numbers on the screen so Zwift has been my go to. I have also been doing more races as well.
But I think what will happen is I am going to drop one of them. I have been paying for both since it isn't a huge deal but now that it will be an extra $60 a year, not a crazy amount but still, I will probably only go with TR or Zwift. But I have a year grace period so I can wait to make my decision.
Twitter - Instagram
But I think what will happen is I am going to drop one of them. I have been paying for both since it isn't a huge deal but now that it will be an extra $60 a year, not a crazy amount but still, I will probably only go with TR or Zwift. But I have a year grace period so I can wait to make my decision.
Twitter - Instagram
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [lightheir]
[ In reply to ]
The real value in TR are the training plans. Lots of them for general or specific needs and stratified by the volume of work you can / want to do. Real, certified coaches creating the plans. Is the TR interface a WOW? No. But that's what Zwift is for - pretty visuals and gamification/racing. I find Zwift's workout plans to be unusable (unless *I* sequence each workout - so, to be clear, the erg mode workouts in Zwift function fine - the integration of the workouts into something that creates a useful training plan is what is missing).
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [ChrisM]
[ In reply to ]
For all those current subscribers willing to pay $9.99/month but not $14.99/month:
With Zwift not raising your price for a year, will you continue on at $9.99/month, since you are already willing to pay that now and presumably over the next year Zwift will continue to offer more features, or do you intend to cancel now for whatever reason?
Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
With Zwift not raising your price for a year, will you continue on at $9.99/month, since you are already willing to pay that now and presumably over the next year Zwift will continue to offer more features, or do you intend to cancel now for whatever reason?
Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [refthimos]
[ In reply to ]
I'm sure you just picked a random post to reply to, but as I am not a current subscriber (was considering it)....no comment
I was not even willing to spend $10/month, perhaps I don't know what I'm missing but I am fairly enough entertained a couple hours per week on the CT with my DVR, netflix, sports, etc. I also do structured workouts so don't see any benefit of "racing" a zwifter.
I was not even willing to spend $10/month, perhaps I don't know what I'm missing but I am fairly enough entertained a couple hours per week on the CT with my DVR, netflix, sports, etc. I also do structured workouts so don't see any benefit of "racing" a zwifter.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [Bonesbrigade]
[ In reply to ]
The presentation is pretty basic on TR, but there is a lot behind it. The workout library is huge and they have numerous, complete training plans. You can make the scenery whatever you want (Netflix, Amazon, music, etc.) for the given workout. Although Zwift is getting into the training side of things a bit more, they have a long way to go to draw even with TR in that regard. I think Zwift of more as a social/game type setting. Not that hard work can't be done there, but initially I don't think it was really developed as a hard core training platform.
The real icing on the cake at TR is the people behind it. Of the handful of great customer services companies I have worked with, TR might be the best. Their customer service portal is quick, they are constantly pushing out updates, they are pretty transparent regarding their near and long term development goals and they are even on here regularly interacting with all of us. They host a very good podcast and have a coaches on staff ready and willing to help you figure out how to personalize their offerings for what you have going on individually. They have even helped me work out some power meter issues that had absolutely nothing to do with their program. I just can't say enough good things about the people at TR.
"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
The real icing on the cake at TR is the people behind it. Of the handful of great customer services companies I have worked with, TR might be the best. Their customer service portal is quick, they are constantly pushing out updates, they are pretty transparent regarding their near and long term development goals and they are even on here regularly interacting with all of us. They host a very good podcast and have a coaches on staff ready and willing to help you figure out how to personalize their offerings for what you have going on individually. They have even helped me work out some power meter issues that had absolutely nothing to do with their program. I just can't say enough good things about the people at TR.
"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [refthimos]
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I was fortunate enough to sign up earlier this week. I was a beta tester but never really got Zwift. I decided to give it another shot and am really enjoying the racing, more more than I expected. I will probably pay through the winter and then drop it once I can get outside more often.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [Jonathan22]
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Well, I agree with your (1) to an extent. But all of those big ticket items are one-time costs (or can be infrequent). My indoor training is conducted on a 30 year old Cannondale. But the Zwift cost increase is *not* $5. It's $5/month, $60/year. That seems significant to me and not worth the added value (with value / new features as your point (2)). The XaaS model is exhausting me. Things are *only* $10/mo or $12/mo or $20/mo...pretty soon, it all starts adding up to real money. Of course, we could take this to the next step...the increased Zwift cost is only $1.15/week. Or less than 17 cents per day! Maybe a better metric...how many Zwift rides per year (or Zwift hours per year) do you complete? Now you can do the math on increased price per ride or per hour of use. Each ride is 50% more. If you ride Zwift regularly, maybe the added costs, divided among, say, 12 rides per month, seems reasonable. But how about that month when you ride twice? $7.50 per ride now. More than a Starbucks! Finally, what other service increases prices by 50%? I *hate* my cable company, but I watch TV more than I use Zwift (I know, a character flaw). Still, If I can accept a 50% increase at Zwift, how about a 50% increase in cable costs? That would be a considerable amount of money per month (or per year). Much more attention grabbing than $5/mo, but the same % increase.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [refthimos]
[ In reply to ]
refthimos wrote:
For all those current subscribers willing to pay $9.99/month but not $14.99/month: With Zwift not raising your price for a year, will you continue on at $9.99/month, since you are already willing to pay that now and presumably over the next year Zwift will continue to offer more features, or do you intend to cancel now for whatever reason?
Yes I will continue. I want to see what value they can add in the coming year to see if $15 a month is worth it to me.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50%
[ In reply to ]
Meh, its $5. I will keep using it.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [talegater]
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talegater wrote:
its not lost on me that since starting on zwift, the territory and function has grown tremendously. - so many more different routes
- better graphics and sound
- more workout and some basic plans
- running function
All of these I use and can appreciate. I can see these functions and future enhancement adding value and justifying the costs. In particular training plans like TrainerRoad, structured and varied depending on ability and goals would be super valuable to me.
Moreover, the convenience and safety side of the equation is supremely important to me. Wife and two kids and fulll time job and elderly parents. Suiting up for a road ride takes 30 mins and another 20mins of intersections to get to my favorite roads. Bad weather, crazy drivers, and potholes stress me out. Not a fan of freezing my butt off for the first 45 mins either, during am rides. Since zwift and to a more limited extent TrainerRoad before that, I’d train and race out doors still. Now, I am 99% training and racing indoors. Safe, hard, and super convenient. I still road bike race, duathlon, and tri outside for races but training rides are now virtually all indoors. But in the evening when kids are in bed, I can sneak on down to garage and hammer out a 60 min session training or racing.
If that was it, then it’s already compelling, but I also enjoy being part of the community. Am On a training and race team for zwift where I hammer it out with my international mates from all over the world. We push each other and occasionally even trash talk. We schedule to meet up at races, show up and crush it out, executing team tactics. Loads if fun. And bye, the tss of 90-95 matches or blows away the TrainerRoad efforts: competition and camaraderie are pretty big motivators.
If it was just graphics and a couple of “ghost” riders, then yeah, pretty boring. But there are literally thousands of riders and races/rides to join in 24/7. That’s valuable and what makes zwift awesome.
My experience, yours may differ.
ALL of this. Get on Zwift, join some races, pedal your legs off, and interact with the community. There are some very, very strong riders on there, and they will push you to your limits. If you want to get faster on the bike, ride more. If you want to make riding more, more enjoyable, try to rip someones legs off in a race. It's a rush to be turning yourself inside out to break away or bridge a gap or drop people on a climb.
I have a group of riders I interact with that are from the UK, Australia, and all over the US. We plan on joining the same races so we can work together, suffer together, and encourage one another when someone breaks away.
If you're finding Zwift to be boring because you're just getting on and meandering about the virtual world, then no shit--that's kind of boring. Zwift isn't magically fun because it's a virtual world. It's all the things the virtual world allows you to do on your bike that makes it fun.
If anyone has any questions about how to join races, group rides, etc. please feel free to send me a PM.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [refthimos]
[ In reply to ]
I will keep the 9.99 subscription for now, but only because I want to see how AppleTV integration goes. Of course, if I get sucked into that, then I'll probably just stay there.I still don't think it is worth $14.99/mo and I use it 3-4 times a weeks for training rides on the admittedly basic training plans. A lot of times I'll also jump on for 30-45 min in the afternoon when I just want to spin for some recovery between the real rides outside or want to warm up the legs before an afternoon run. I like Zwift, but I don't love Zwift, and I could easily go somewhere else and not miss it.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [giorgitd]
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giorgitd wrote:
The real value in TR are the training plans. Lots of them for general or specific needs and stratified by the volume of work you can / want to do. Real, certified coaches creating the plans. Is the TR interface a WOW? No. But that's what Zwift is for - pretty visuals and gamification/racing. I find Zwift's workout plans to be unusable (unless *I* sequence each workout - so, to be clear, the erg mode workouts in Zwift function fine - the integration of the workouts into something that creates a useful training plan is what is missing).I agree that there is value in the training plans, esp given that a typical online training plan itself costs $80+ nowadays, but let's be real - they have what, like 1 or 2 certified coaches at TR, and one of them isn't even a triathlete but was writing the training plans. I haven't been on TR for awhile, but I recall the HIM bike plan early on and it had a ridiculous 3 week uber taper that made no sense.
Now if TR had the ability to have coaches like Paulo, desertdude, and other coaches who have a solid stable of excellent performers contribute plans (and take a commission/cut) just as Trainingpeaks does, I'd be all in. However, it's hard for me to believe that TR's 2 coaches whose athlete stable's results I don't even know about, are superior to all the other choices out there.
It's just amazing to me that nobody has tried to disrupt Trainerroad on the coaching/plan front. I know there are quite a few PC apps (but nearly zero android apps, amazingly) that do the power-ANT+ trainer control or graphs, but none of these players aside from TR have coach-written plans, which I find an astounding omission given how many coaches there are out there to partner with.
Don't get me wrong, I think TR is a solid proven product, but I often wish they had plans from other coaches, as I wasn't so sure about following the advice of their coaches regarding a SBR plan, as compared to a pure cycling plan.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [jkhayc]
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What gets to me is the extremely increased commercials they do nowadays. And the increase of staff (100 people?? wow), for which I dont see my personal direct advantage. I dont use it much differently today that I did when there was only Watopia and they had what, 4 or 5 guys working there? I am with them since they were still in Beta for free, and I also pay all year around even though I basically dont use it from May to Nov to support the product. I can really afford the 5$ more a month, but I do have the crappy feeling that I paying to see their commercials and paid content on GCN and I dont need/use what they are adding....
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Signed up for the first time yesterday. Guess I got in just in time as it was $10 last night.
Matt
Matt
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Good news for those of us committed to Trainer Road.
Scott
Scott
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [Pun_Times]
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Great timing. I would have signed up today if they gave warning. But now, I will use my brother in law's account for the next year until his subscription goes up to $15, then I'll sign up if there is no price difference.
They would probably have gotten a huge bump in subscribers if they telegraphed this for a week.
They would probably have gotten a huge bump in subscribers if they telegraphed this for a week.
Re: Zwift increases monthly prices by 50% [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Lots of the common questions are answered in an FAQ we have regarding the price increase: https://support.zwift.com/...rticles/115005405146
I see every day what this increase is going to support. Zwift is today just so much more than it was 3yrs ago when we launched at $10/mo. (This is our first price increase ever.) And, based on most responses, I think most people generally understand the price increase; that doesn't mean they agree with it, but that's fine. I completely understand that people have budgets and they have to decide what something is - or is not - worth to them.
But I can promise that you are not going to be paying more for the same experience on Zwift. Will the changes and improvements be worth 50% more? That's for you to decide. But it's certainly our goal to deliver way more than a 50% better experience over the next year...
"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
I see every day what this increase is going to support. Zwift is today just so much more than it was 3yrs ago when we launched at $10/mo. (This is our first price increase ever.) And, based on most responses, I think most people generally understand the price increase; that doesn't mean they agree with it, but that's fine. I completely understand that people have budgets and they have to decide what something is - or is not - worth to them.
But I can promise that you are not going to be paying more for the same experience on Zwift. Will the changes and improvements be worth 50% more? That's for you to decide. But it's certainly our goal to deliver way more than a 50% better experience over the next year...
"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
spudone wrote:
No, $5/mo isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things. But everyone wants recurring monthly revenue these days and it starts stacking up and getting annoying.This is driving me nuts as well. $10 here, $12 there, another $8 on this, etc., etc., etc. When you add it up, you're spending a hundred bucks a month--easily!