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Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:
You guys can sit around on the internet nailing the guys to the cross. I'm not letting him off the hook either. I just see this as something that occurs in all aspects of life...in sport, in academia, in business. People who can't live up to external expectations and do the absolutely wrong thing rather than doing the right thing out of the gate. My expectations for people like many of you guys is higher. I hate when it happens

I'm separating my expectations for people from understanding the background as to why they choose to make poor decisions. As I have people who work for me, and I coach kids, I just seek the understand how and why people make poor decisions so that I can make sure the people around me don't put themselves in ethically questionable situations that they have to explain their way out of.

I brought up the example of coaching kids of overbearing parents for that reason. Often times, parents don't know what values they are inadvertantly ingraining into kids. The kids grow up in an environment where success at all costs is required, while the parents may be oblivious to the fact that sucess is coming not the way they intended.

dev, you are treating all bad decisions the same way when there are very different types of bad decisions. bad decisions, such as flying into kona the day before the race, doing a century ride the day before the race or racing on a fixed-gear bike are all bad decisions but they don't involve an unethical component to them. taking PEDs, cutting a course or using fins are all bad decisions that necessarily involve an unethical component to them. they are very different and should be treated differently. nobody will suffer the severe opprobrium doled out in this thread for making the former types of bad decisions but he/she sure as hell should if he/she commits the latter types. society has become way too forgiving of the latter and that's not a good thing.

the other issue here is that our resident cheater clearly has dug himself a deeper hole by making up a completely ridiculous explanation that i am surprised you believe. there's no chance that someone who has pulled out of a race and is walking back to the transition area would decide to take his chip off and drop it in the closest garbage can. what would be the point of that other than to cover up a premeditated cut? give me a break. moreover, nobody who has pulled out of a race, but then who decides to jump back in after hearing the roar of the crowd, tracks down the officials at the finish line, so he can lie to them to make sure his phony time is added back to the results, unless he clearly wants his cheating to look legitimate. lastly, nobody who has done this then would be so loud the next day that everyone at the pool could hear his braggadocio unless he was so shameless that he intended to get away with it. i really am shocked that people on here have been giving him mad props for his subsequent mendacity.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [mag900] [ In reply to ]
 
Opprobrium. Mendacity. What is this, 30 Days to a More Powerful Vocabulary?

Stop making such rational, lucid points. There is no place for that on slowtwitch.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [mag900] [ In reply to ]
 
It's not that your understanding of the situation is wrong, it's that you seem to want this guy to pay for it above and beyond the public humilation he's already endured. He cheated, he was exposed and now it will be up to him on how he handles himself going forward.

In the grand sceme of things , it was merely a triathlon. Let it go.

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Printer86] [ In reply to ]
 
He spit in the face of everybody that didn't cheat......I would say it speaks to his personality and life.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [mag900] [ In reply to ]
 
Four years ago I was lucky enough to get a spot and go to Worlds in Vancouver. The race (Olympic distance) was a shambles. On race day (which turned into a Du for half the field and all the men) there was so much cheating, especially in the run, that several people (male and female) beat the current world record for the 10k, with times even a Kenyan couldn't run on a downhill course. In my age group there were a few who bettered their previous PB by twenty minutes in a 10k run. My age group is in it's sixties. You don't have to be 21 (with your parents approval in tow) to cheat.

The kid is 21. Like most 21 year olds I'm sure he thought he had come up with something no one else had ever thought of before and it dovetailed nicely with having a family in attendance and not wanting to look a failure. The problem, he's only 21, really doesn't know squat and he was easily caught.

That cheating is almost universal in all walks of life is not of consequence here, he is now labelled for life.

The result of getting caught. He will have lost his parents trust, his friends will remember his actions forever and the reputation will follow him for a long long time, especially if he stays in the sport. All that training wasted. It will affect his job prospects and his relationships for years to come. He has paid a price I will never have to.

What more is there to say.

except

I won't remember him after next week, even if I knew his name.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
 
James Haycraft wrote:
mag900 wrote:
i never could trust him.


it's a f***ing triathlon! what this thread has devolved into is ridiculous.


Seriously.....it has devolved into an internet equivalent of bullying, and I suggest this thread be closed and locked, please.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [bt] [ In reply to ]
 
Agree. It's a bunch of pious blowhards, who are getting their rocks off by being holier than thou. Really weird. I can only suspect they doth protest too much.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Ted4865] [ In reply to ]
 
The bottom line here people is that he CHOSE to ditch his chip. Why would you get rid of your chip unless your intention was to cheat? Having done Ironman's before he knows the protocol in regards to deciding to DNF and that was not his intention.
I tend to agree that his mea culpa was because he got caught not because he cheated.
And, as to if he legitmately qualified at IMLP...I tend to question that finish as well.
Ironman is something that many of us take seriously and are proud to say we did. But, actions like these just tarnish the sport.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
Nothing like beating a dead horse huh????

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Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [bmanners] [ In reply to ]
 
Well, from the look of all the postings on this subject I would say I'm not beating a dead horse. I don't need to explain myself to you but since you chose to make such a comment..this is my first time as a member posting so, that should tell you something. I am not on this often. And, this is a subject that I chose to repsond to. If you have a problem with that, that's your issue.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
Problem is this happened around 2-3 weeks ago. The kid did everything he could do to try to rectify as much as he could. He is young and young peeps sometimes make mistakes. From what parents teach and through life's lessons it is how we build good character and make better decisions in life. You decided to jump on the band wagon a little late in the game. I do not know the young man but can tell his apology was heartfelt. This is the last time I post on the subject as I do not want to keep bringing it front page and ask Slowman or Rapp to delete or lock access for this young man who I have no affiliation with.

__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [bmanners] [ In reply to ]
 
So because this is something that happened 2-3 weeks ago, you are going to tell me I am late coming to the game or as you put it "jumping on the band wagon"? Really? Are these forums set up for people to have the right to speak their mind and voice their opinions? So, what would you like to implement a "window" as to how long after an initial thread is posted how long you have to comment? I mean seriously.
I chose to post my opinion on the subject and you chose to respond to it. You could have easily have let the post fade into oblivion by NOT responding.
It's all about choices we make and taking responsibilities for those choices.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
To my defenders,

I know that you posting on this forum are with the best intentions, but I am afraid that trying to stifle people’s opinions will not help the situation. I cheated and there are people out there (acquaintances or not) that are finding out about this and are rightfully very angry and/or upset. As a public forum this is the perfect place for them to voice their opinions.

With that being said I would prefer to speak to people personally about this issue so please feel free to shoot me a direct message with your e-mail or phone number (I would post my e-mail but it has my name in it) and I will gladly call you or e-mail you (your preference) to discuss. I have spoken to my family and most of my close supporters and am in the process of contacting the remainder directly.

For those of you thinking about posting my name on this site I beg you with the utmost sincerity to please reconsider posting it. I have suffered and subsequently learned a ton from this horrible decision and have been seriously considering whether I have a future in triathlon. If and when I do return to racing I will be sure to race for a good cause, register with an Ironman Foundation spot and post my garmin files. I don’t think my job and life should be at risk, but I do agree I deserve to be berated for this decision.

-mike
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
sandytrigrl wrote:
So because this is something that happened 2-3 weeks ago, you are going to tell me I am late coming to the game or as you put it "jumping on the band wagon"? Really? Are these forums set up for people to have the right to speak their mind and voice their opinions? So, what would you like to implement a "window" as to how long after an initial thread is posted how long you have to comment? I mean seriously.
I chose to post my opinion on the subject and you chose to respond to it. You could have easily have let the post fade into oblivion by NOT responding.
It's all about choices we make and taking responsibilities for those choices.


Get over yourself. I mean, seriously.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [] [ In reply to ]
 
I haven't read this entire thread. 18 pages of responses ... did Lance get caught? And furthermore, how the hell is a guy with no testicles able to produce more children than me? Whatever he is/isn't taking ... that's some powerful shit.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm with Bmanners on this. You didn't say anything that a hundred other bashers haven't said already. Just had to get your bash in? You added nothing new or relivant.

As it's been pointed out already, he is still young, making mistakes, and growing. I tend to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. How many his age have the discipline and work ethic to do Ironman? A VERY small percentage. He has apologized repeatedly. So, unless you've NEVER done anything you hoped someone would forgive you for, I'd tread lightly before judging so harshly.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [SpeedRacer1] [ In reply to ]
 
Speedracer 1, I'm sure if you were in his age group and his cheating caused you lose a qualifying spot or age group win you may think differently about defending him.
Oh, and to bamanners and those of you who continue to "bash" those of us coming late to the game...we, in his local triathlon community just found out about this over the past few days. There has been a concerted effort to keep it quiet.
Your anger is misdirected. If you have a problem with the posts on this subject then stop reading it. It's that simple. But, if those of you who attack do not expect a counter-attack then you are sadly mistaken.
My intention was to post my opinion which I did. Freedom of speech people! Look into it!
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
sandytrigrl wrote:
But, if those of you who attack do not expect a counter-attack then you are sadly mistaken.


I knew it! You're LL Cool J, aren't you?
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
sandytrigrl wrote:
Speedracer 1, I'm sure if you were in his age group and his cheating caused you lose a qualifying spot or age group win you may think differently about defending him.
Oh, and to bamanners and those of you who continue to "bash" those of us coming late to the game...we, in his local triathlon community just found out about this over the past few days. There has been a concerted effort to keep it quiet.
Your anger is misdirected. If you have a problem with the posts on this subject then stop reading it. It's that simple. But, if those of you who attack do not expect a counter-attack then you are sadly mistaken.
My intention was to post my opinion which I did. Freedom of speech people! Look into it!

I think you need to look into it first if you think it at all applies here....
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
Sandy,

Ok, you're pissed off and feel violated by this guy's actions. Fine. You have every right to post your feelings in a public forum. However, it serves no purpose other than your own to do so at this point. There are 18 pages of shock, anger and rage here.

You adding your own "stone" to the pile is permissible but unnecessary.

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Printer86] [ In reply to ]
 
Printer 86, the key word there is permissible. I have every right to voice my opinion just as much as the others have their right to now crucify me for speaking out.
I am not the one that cheated! Let's not forget what started this thread in the first place.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [sandytrigrl] [ In reply to ]
 
sandytrigrl wrote:
I am not the one that cheated!

Prove it.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [triathlon1989] [ In reply to ]
 
In life, everyone gets second chances....criminals go to jail and are let out eventually, drunk drivers get licenses taken away and get them back, EPO users get suspended and get to race etc. But they get another chance to prove to the world that they learned and became better people. We have lots of former drug users back racing in endurance sport. It seems this thread alone is a pretty decent sentence for the transgression in Kona (others will disagree, but that is their choice).

I'd rather see you back at triathlon sooner than later, and as others (and you have said), post your garmin files, to corroborate your integrity at past (and future) events. No doubt that this has been a painful way to learn, and in life, we need to take every failure as a chance to improve ourselves. It's OK to fail. I wish you had failed simply by going slower having walked the whole course. Now you have an even more massive failure to dig out of.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [Printer86] [ In reply to ]
 
Printer86 wrote:
Sandy,



You adding your own "stone" to the pile is permissible but unnecessary.


The forum would be pretty crummy if everyone thought that way. She MAY bring a new vantage point or another point of view to the discussion. Nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to read it/comment on what she is saying, let it go and the thread will disappear.
 
Re: Should this be a DQ or DNF at Kona? [M~] [ In reply to ]
 
The author of the post that resurrected this topic gets my vote for jerk of the year.

What he did with his Kona slot is his business. He earned it. It was never to be anyone elses toy to play with. BTW, this is not a team sport.

We should all spend more time minding our business.
 

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