Here's the thing: if your legs, feet and posterior are too low in the water it's usually the result of what you are doing with your head, arms and shoulders. So there's more going on with your swim than just your reliance on a buoyancy aid. Just because the wetsuit brought the stern up doesn't mean you don't have an issue, the bow is still pushing water.

Wouldn't you want to knock 2-3 minutes off a 1.2 mile swim even if it was wetsuit legal? That would be worth a lot to me, more than impressing the lads at the coffee shop with my track stands.

But to each, his own...

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"They know f_ck-all over at Slowtwitch"
- Lionel Sanders

I get that, and I don't disagree that I could find some advantage if I really invested the time. But that's the rub: How much advantage would I get and how much time would I have to invest? You say 2-3 minutes off a 70.3 swim; that's not nothing, but its also not huge for a mid-packer like me. And the one thing I don't have is an unlimited supply of time and energy to devote to this hobby. To me, it makes more sense to spend that time on the bike and run where I think my ROI is better. Improving one's swim as you are suggesting is not a zero-cost proposition; there are trade-offs and in the grand scheme its a low priority issue for me because (as I said) I don't see any non-wetsuit race swims in my future anytime soon. That being said, I don't use this as an excuse to say I should be allowed to wear sim shorts in a race if it isn't wetsuit legal. I just stay away from races that are likely to not be wetsuit legal to begin with. But I seek out bike courses with a lot of climbing because that suits my strength. Horses for courses, as they say.

I guess my more general point is that I don't hear the bikers on here talking about how we should all be working on criterium racing skills because that will make us better triathlon cyclists. But swimmers seem really put out that many triathletes don't really embrace the purity of swimming for its own sake as opposed to just a component of the overall sport we choose to do.

And I don't do flip turns or butterfly either.

Having read through all of the posts so far I think there is a simple logic.

If you race Triathlon you need to race on a equal plane to everyone else.(level of gear notwithstanding)
If all can swim with a wetsuit, then it's equal (level of gear notwithstanding) even if some chose not to swim in one.

If you need a flotation device to feel comfortable in the water, you are no longer racing on an equal footing with everyone else.
You are now at best a participant, no different than someone who has electric assist on their bike.

There are no races in which you can race alongside a hurdler, but without going over the hurdles.
Learning to swim, is a hurdle, if you don't want to go over, don't do that race.

You’re misunderstanding the rule. It isn’t that above 78 there’s an increased risk of overheating. It’s that below 78, some people may find them necessary to keep warm. Above that, they aren’t really required for warmth, so they aren’t allowed.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

It's not just time Sluglas. It's efficiency. To get your time with an inefficient technique probably cost you more on your subsequent bike and run because you had burned more matches in the swim than someone with the same time as you but better technique.

Flip turns and butterfly aren't mandatory.

You are finding the advantage by wearing shorts IMO and Suttos. My coach trained under Sutto many years ago, is a very accomplished swimmer (first out the water Kona) and has me with a pool buoy most sessions. I have introduced the shorts rather than the buoy leading into Kona not racing in a wetsuit.
https://blog.trisutto.com/the-pull-buoy-debate-2/

Bingo. We have a winner. FWIW 78 is a higher cut off than other countries use.

78= 25.5C

ITU Elite Short - 20C, Long 22C
ITU AG Short- 22C, Long 24.5

The swimwear rules derive from swimming rules where you are not allowed to have any buoyancy.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

OK, stepping back for a day, I concede that I was somewhat "letsrun-ish" and did not need to take that angle. So let me rewind.

Buoyancy is a by product of protecting us from cold. Buoyancy comes with neoprene which is used to keep us warm. When we don't need the warmth, the buoyance goes with it. The proof that the sport is not trying to give us "free buoyancy" is when they banned wetsuits more than 5mm of thickness. It was felt that excessively thick wetsuits were not needed for warmth and were just diminishing the swim. In the purest sense, when its warm enough, the neoprene/warmth clothing goes. If you look at the rules, other than your neoprene of 5mm thickness, all buoyancy aids are expressly banned.

And I'll admit even when I was actively racing triathlon I hated wetsuit swims because I just felt people did not want to actually learn how to do one of the sports. And was not a particularly good swimmer, but not bad either. I generally worked really hard to get a good body position so I could deal with no wetsuit swims because they are part of the sport.

Now that I race masters swimming as my primary sport, I guess I get even more "over reactive" when I see the general trend to not want to learn to swim. I get that the payback in time is invested in swimming is not great relative to bike-run, generally non technical sports.

However, what I will share is the single year I put in swimming 15-20K per week in 1993 had a permanent effect. I went from a 36 min 1.9K swimmer to more like 29-32min permanently for the rest of my tri life, and thats when I dialed back down to barely 200km of swimming per year (do the math, that's barely 4000m per week). With bike and run, you can't just invest a year doing 6 hrs per week of the sport and keep your gains forever.....in swimming you can.

All those ex fat collegiate swimmers that we all hate who are 60 lbs overweight and kick our ass who we hate....guess what....they did their 50,000m per week for 8 years so they did their time. Most of us have not.

So I urge you to just put in a year of swimming and you'll have the gains forever...you won't need floaty pants.

When is someone going to market trishorts with an inflatable bladder sewn into the liner. A Small hand pump on the waistline. Pump up once you're into the crowd, and let the air out as you exit the water. Walla, make a million bucks.

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Athlinks / Strava

I'm not sure wetsuits actually have to be made out of buoyant material. Before I bought a tri wettie, I had a surfing wetsuit which was warn but made abso no diff in speed. I tested it out in the pool by swimming 2 x 500 yd at mod effort with 2 min rest in between, one in the surf wettie and one in just my Speedo; both 500s were within a second of each other. In contrast, when I got a tri wettie, hell, I could tell immediately, just from pushing off the wall, that I was riding higher in the water, kind of like a super pull buoy. I've often wondered if Dan had to bribe the USAT, or actually Tri Fed as it was then, to allow his new neoprene wettie. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Surfing wetsuits are buoyant.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Wetsuits are permitted for safety due to temperature, not buoyancy, which is merely a side effect and an unfortunate one at that.

And frankly I would say that the 3:5 wetsuits are an unfair advantage at all times. Most other gear helps the better athlete more than the worse athlete, not those wetsuits, which help make up for someone being a rubbish swimmer.

Just because you only gain 2-3 min on a 1.2 mile swim doesn't mean that's all the time that you gain. If you are a stronger swimmer you leave the water feeling fresher, thus that translates to a faster bike and faster run at the same effort. If the swim was last then maybe your swim time will only effect your swim time. However, it's first.

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202

Well, perhaps my surfing wettie was ever so slightly buoyant, but if so, its buoyancy was essentially negligible compared to the triathlon wettie.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Sorry for the tangent. This is the aspect I didnt appreciate coming into the sport. Something just doesn't sit right with me that $s spent can have such a huge effect on results. I get it, understand, not proposing anything different just doesn't sit right with me. Just probably being a naïve idiot :)

Nope, Dan didn't bribe anybody. We didn't have the money to do that.

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Karen ST Concierge

If it was warm and made of neoprene, it was buoyant. That's just how they work...

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

With regard to your note...on my note, "level of gear notwithstanding"

Let me make a few observations, because truthfully it's easy to get blinded on these forums.

The level of gear you have, above just basically good, means bupkiss. Literally. bupkiss.
And this is why....(in my opinion, it's an opinion, because all opinion passes for fact here).

Out of literally hundreds I have raced one particular IM distance race on four different bikes and four different wetsuits, over the course of twenty years (6 times + 2 HIM + 1 Olympic).

The fastest swim I had was in a sleeveless. The rest, including a simsuit (quicker T1) were all within 2 minutes of each other.

The fastest bike was on a Cervelo Dual (their discontinued,cheapest model), with a wheel cover and an OEM front wheel (picture on here). You can buy that rig for a few hundred today (not mine). I'll admit it was faster than the steel frame $200 Nishiki with a clamped on aero bar or the $90 10 speed from The Bay. But that was because I couldn't actually sit on the Nishiki for 6'ish hours, knew nothing about gears, nutrition, hydration, position and wore a T shirt with running shorts. The several thousand, more costly bike, saddle, expensive wheels, aero suit, better nutrition and hydration, gave me the same results, since I learned to sit.

Doesn't matter how much you spend on shoes and a hat, you ain't going faster unless you train.

Most people waste more time in transition that they ever gain from the equipment. Including me.

I don't regret buying the toys (men and boys..), but you don't need them.
A Rolex still only tells the time.

Probably true! I did just finish my second tri ever at 50 yrs old at IMMT 70.3 in 6 hrs on a 20 yr old road bike and a used/ripped entry level wetsuit :)

My old surfing wettie was not made out of neoprene. I can't recall what it was made out of but it was not the black shiny neoprene. Jason, I don't know what I can do to make you believe me but NON-BUOYANT WETSUITS DO EXIST. I KNOW B/C I WASTED MY MONEY ON BUYING ONE BY MISTAKE BEFORE I FOUND A REAL TRI WETTIE. So, all I'm saying is that, if USAT wanted to, they could require wetsuits to be non-buoyant. They could test them fairly easily: just throw the suit in the pool and see if floats or sinks. Of course, after 35 yrs of floaty wetsuits, this will never happen.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I’m wondering when people started using wetsuits in triathlons

I don’t recall anyone at Lake Placid wearing one in ‘84. I ended up with hypothermia. Speedos only going down hill in something like 55 degree weather I winder why lol

Last thing I remembered, before waking up in the back of the car 3 hours towards Rochester, was getting off the bike in T2.

I think around 1986-ish. I recall seeing them at Hilton Head in 1987, where the water was just barely wetsuit legal. Sounds like you got hypothermic on the bike though, but I'm sure being freezing coming OOTW was part of it. Sheet, I would've taken time to put on tights and long-sleeved shirt in T1. I abso HATE being cold on the bike. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I have never seen a surf “wettie” that did not have neoprene. Rash guards yes, “wetties” no. Just because it is not black or shiny, does not mean it is not neoprene. Most wetsuits have fabric on both sides, to protect against abrasion of the rubber on the board- so you rarely see the actual neoprene. Also, swim wetsuits are design for optimum flotation of a swimmer, surf suits are temp only- so a win wetsuit would almost always get you higher in the water than a surf suit. Hope this helps.

Your biggest problem regarding swimming is you clearly do not understand it. If you did, you would now that you could reduce your current pool time by REDUCING your pool time it you focused on technique and water body balance. Swimming for any amount of time with bad form is totally wasted time. Go back to basics, learn to float properly, learn to swim...you will be much faster with much less effort.
Regarding your bike comments- it is that attitude that results in so many unnecessary bike crashes. Bike skills, including balance at very slow speed, including track stands, is essential for safety, and will also make you faster- that is the main reason so many top pro cyclists choose rollers

To the original post- the rules are clear. We could all waste thousands of hours debating the why to any rule. The replies you received to your question were simple, to the point answers, which is not snarky.
If you don’t like the rules, write to the governing bodies and request changes, or don’t race.