WTC doesnt see Rev3 as anything more than a regional competitor. They have a long way to go before they really cut into WTCs business, and frankly, WTC has mostly insured the pros will stay with them with the new points plan. So long as Kona stays the top prize, and you have to earn the points to get there, WTC has the top pros basically locked up. Next years Rev3 will mostly have second tier folks. Whats interesting is if you win Kona, you can afford to go play somewhere else most fo the time, becauee you have to do one WTC IM to prove you get to go back for each of the next five years.

Im assuming the grandfathered in the previous 5 years winners at Kona so Chrissie, Crowie, Macca, et al can mostly do what they want for now, but in 5 years time, dont be surprised if what we see is all the top pros racing all the big points events and most races having little or maybe perhaps even no pro field. 500 points in august at Timberman just isnt worth it if you have a shot at 1500 at Euro champs.

In fact my guess is you'll see late pro entries at races like timberman by people who have bad days at the big races and they'll come in unprepared, and wind up injured in their quest for Kona.

It all smells of very bad things to come.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

And if you want to run a for-profit business, pay your employees.

We had a thread a few weeks ago about the legitimacy of a for-profit business using volunteer labor. It appears that WTC has some scheme set up to do an end-run around the general rule that for-profit businesses cannot use volunteers. IMO, it wasn't clear whether this scheme was legitimate, but it's apparently a business risk WTC is willing to take.

But legitimate or not, I suspect potential volunteers are going to be more likely to think twice about volunteering for a company that appears to be primarily, if not solely, interested in maximizing short term profits.

And even those volunteers who looked past WTC and idealistically imagined that they were really volunteering to help out the athletes may no longer do so when a larger and larger percentage of the athlete pool consists of wealthy doctors, lawyers, etc., out to indulge in what is really an expensive hobby.

The thing is, the people who actually have an extra $1000 to spend on this type of thing are likely going to be men age 35-55ish... so those age groups get huge at the popular ironman events and therefore end up with even more Kona spots than they already have... essentially screwing the younger age groups and some women who maybe just don't have the disposable income.

It'll be interesting to watch how this pans out. With all the negative hype coming from so many athletes, it may be that the special laminated IM membership card isn't quite so shiny. We can hope.

Spend $5,000 on Ironman merchandise and it pays for itself.

It feels like yesterday. Was there no truth to it at all?

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Are you aware how many people have said that in the 90s? Go figure.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Every time you try to give that corporation the benefit of the doubt they do something that just turns you off completely. I would not mind as much, but they are knocking the little guy out of business and they are ruining the culture of triathlon.

And even those volunteers who looked past WTC and idealistically imagined that they were really volunteering to help out the athletes may no longer do so when a larger and larger percentage of the athlete pool consists of wealthy doctors, lawyers, etc., out to indulge in what is really an expensive hobby.

Alan,

It's an interesting point, isn't it. Thousands and thousands of people enthusiastically volunteering for these events every year, yet many genuine non-profit organizations are absolutely desperate for volunteer help! Not saying it's wrong, it's just rather interesting. To the WTC's credit, that have generated significant charitable dollar amounts, in the $millions over the last 10 years through the Janus Charity Challenge.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Was there no truth to it at all?

Uli,

No there was not. Graham took the template from Ironman Canada* (his first IM race that he ran) and then started to apply that to the other venues around North America that he set up. Everything that he did was focused on the best possible experience on race day and throughout IM race week for the athlete. He knew that more and more people wanted to take on the challenge of doing and racing an Ironman, so he continued to seek more and other venues for the various IM events around North America, so that more people could do the races.

Early on there were HUGE risks involved. Today, people think it's a slam-dunk, but back in the late 90's and early '00's triathlon was no where nearly as popular. Sponsors much harder to find. Volunteers, more reluctant to give up a whole day of time. Local authorities, more resistant to road closures . . and so on.

* Today, it's hard to believe this, but when Graham bought Ironman Canada from the old Ironman Canada Race Society in '96, the race was loosing large amounts of money every year. Unknown to many, on two occasions, in the previous few years the race was nearly canceled( one year actually during race week, with everyone there!) because the ICRS, was broke!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Steve, in fairness, the athletes raise the money and Janus makes some contribution. I don't believe that WTC has raised anything through the Janus charity challenge (although I could be wrong). WTC has "raised" money through the IM community fund.

I think we are all welcome to spend are money at Challenge Series races, Independent Ironmans and Rev3. Personally I don't like the $1000 to "get to the front of the line" and should not reward people who work more in the office and train less....it should "ideally" reward those who train more/better/more intelligently.

IM, in an ideal world should be an athletic event, so let's have more qualifer slots for the events (make RD's pay to have those slots) and in line with "getting to the front of the line" let guys and girls qualify a full year ahead of the event (just like advance registration is a full year ahead). I believe the amount of money generated could be reasonably high, if not equal the $1000xN, while at the same time preserving the events as athletic competitions first rather than making it a club for those who have more disposable income (to be clear, none of the options penalize me....I live close enough to an IM to go volunteer and sign up, or I could pay the $1000 if I really wanted to or I train enough to have a shot at qualifying, so I'm trying to view this from a purely objective perspective)

Steve, in fairness, the athletes raise the money and Janus makes some contribution. I don't believe that WTC has raised anything through the Janus charity challenge (although I could be wrong). WTC has "raised" money through the IM community fund.

Agreed - but the event is the catalyst and the vector to raise the money. I don't see people just automatically writing cheques for those charities. Event based charitable fund raising whether you like it or not has become a significant area of fund raising for various non-profit charities in the past 15 or so years.

I think we are all welcome to spend are money at Challenge Series races, Independent Ironmans and Rev3. Personally I don't like the $1000 to "get to the front of the line" and should not reward people who work more in the office and train less....it should "ideally" reward those who train more/better/more intelligently.

I find it odd that what this really is, an affinity program is getting ripped so badly here and elsewhere. These sorts of opt-in, buy-in, affinity programs are run in all kinds of other businesses and no one bats an eye. Personally, the affinity program, I would have liked to have seen would have been some form of points or $$ discount for multiple IM finishers - reward the people/customers who have consumed the most product. Something that the WTC or no individual IM race has ever done. I was thinking about this when they did the last-person-standing thing at IMC this year, on who had done the most IMC races and the three guys who had done every IMC race save the first year( that's 27 IMC's in a row) were the last standing. My guess is that they have paid full-pop every year, for IMC!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Why are people so surprised and incensed by this?

Look around at other popular sports...take college football for instance...alumni pay very large sums of money to be able to buy expensive seats at full price. The more they pay, the closer they park, and the closer they sit. All this to watch a bunch of kids who can barely read and write tote a football, under the guidance of some of the most exorbitantly overpaid employees in the history of the world, and amidst a constant background of illegal payments and recruiting...what's the point of it all?

At least in this case, those who pay, while receiving very little in return for their 1k other than VIP ego boost, do actually participate in the sport...and there isn't an underlying environment of deceit and fraud...at least I don't think there is. And at least they get free drinks at the finish line rather than going to the concession stand and paying $6.50 for a watered down Pepsi...

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

I know people with WAY more money than me, who race Ironman casually, and who will definitely be buying this. They couldn't care less how much entrance fees cost, but it is a major PITA having to fly out to the race site just to stand in line and register. True story.

If they had any brains at all, they would somehow include a parking pass at the race site, as well as VIP body marking and separate porta potties...

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Also... Toilets on the course will now be "Pay" toilets. It is the responsibility of athletes to bring quarters with them to use these facilities, and remember that urinating on the course will result in a DQ. For our Access members we will have staff outside the Porta Potties to verify your Access membership and they will provide quarters for you to use these facilities.[/reply]

Is Michael O'Leary (Ryan Air) on the WTC board?

At least we still have Slowtwitch... for free... right Dan?

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Jay

I think this quote supports some of my earlier posts better than I could

Let's not forget that you can also gain entry by purchasing a training program/entry through Multisports.com.

I can see where this move by WTC will make it more difficult to get into certain races that sell out quickly (IM Florida for example), at least for those that don't have $1,000 in disposable income to join the exclusive club or live near enough to travel and volunteer affordably. I am not a fan of this move by WTC. If this really takes off, I think it could have the effect of excluding triathletes with moderate incomes from participating in IM logo events. At IM Wisconsin they published some statistics in the race program. One of the statistics was the average income of IM participants, which I believe was over $200,000/year. Maybe these are the triathletes WTC wants at their events since they will have more disposable income to spend on merchandise.

For those aspiring to reach the hallowed ground of Kona, it is an expensive journey. That journey may have become a little more exclusive. This is great for the WTC profit margin (if it takes off), but maybe not so great for the sport as whole.

I'm a bit amused that a lot of my tri friends on FB are all of a sudden professing their interest in Rev3 after this lovely WTC bit of capitalism. Who's to say Rev3 isn't going to go down the same path that Ironman/WTC did over the years? They may want blackouts around their races. I'm not so sure they're going to be the angel to complement WTC's devil.

I hope the independent races will really get some love now....Beach to Battleship, Great Floridian, Vineman, etc.

Maybe WTC has a mole in their organization who really works for Rev3....and proposed this idea to get everyone to flip. haha!

I've got one more IM lined up. I have been on the verge of 'retiring' for a while, and hope I have a good race to potentially end on. You certainly won't see me paying extra for the privilege of signing up early. If I choose to do another one and can't get in...so be it. Or take the tax deduction with community fund.

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I'll be participating on the "hallowed ground" of Kona in a month but at the Ultraman Worlds instead.I'm a late entry and less than a day after finding out that I wanted to do the race the Race Director had found me a host family,crew,a paddler,a rental van and asked when my flight arrived so she can get someone to pick me up....

..and people wonder why I do Ultra triathlons. I must be mad.

.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_113239068739298

I was being a little more facetious / tongue and cheek, but I can see the fees coming.

WTC is going after the money, and they will do EVERYTHING in their power to increase their take because they are in the PUMP phase of a "Pump and Dump" That is what acquisition firms like Providence do.

The first phase is to try and hit the upscale market by selling privilege at a high cost. In short, test the market to see if folks will be willing to pony up a grand to "cut the line". Also note as part of their carrot and stick, they are giving these people an extra Kona Entry...

This is the "carrot" part.

The stick part always follows, and while they are currently providing positive incentives for more cash, the flip side that follows is to punish those who don't pony up.

What is hidden in this again is the "lock in" not only the pros, but the regular athletes into doing ONLY WEH/WTC events. The goal here is to get a larger number of people to lock in the $1000 fees, and then make them mentally justify the cost by doing more WEH/WTC races to justify the expenditure in their head. You do 1 race, and $1000 seems like a lot... You do 5, and it is only $200 extra each race.

The other thing you have to realize, WEH could not give a flying crap about the athletes. They see market demand right now, and they will push it to maximize profits... This is not about where the sport will be in 10 or 20 years, but where they can build it to in the next 3 before the sell.

Processing Fees are also a way for them to "Hide" the cost increases. They will justify it by saying it "Costs" more money to register non-Access Members because they already have standardized Access Member info handy.

Now maybe it will not be $200, but I can DEFINITELY see "new" processing fees coming in the future for non-access members. That is just the way the game is played, just the way if you pay the $1000 you now have a better chance at the Kona lottery than if you didn't.

Again... The not-so-subtle thing in this type of program is to get people to lock in to get a better shot at Kona and avoid the lines at a race they want, and at the same time make them then have a preference to ONLY their series of races by having them justify a financial commitment.

This program is as much about keeping people away from Rev3 and other up and coming or long standing independent venues as it is a money grab.

For those aspiring to reach the hallowed ground of Kona, it is an expensive journey. That journey may have become a little more exclusive.

I don't know why this is all so suddenly surprising to people. Back in the early years of IMH, other than the top Pros, a lot of the race field was made up of Doctors, Lawyers, other professionals, and business owners - the classic Type- A types. There is really nothing new here at all.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Not sure which previous post you are referring to. I would offer these points in response to your comment about "elitist douche-bags":

1. My father was an English/Music teacher and made $3200/year when I was born

2. I went to Michigan State because it was the only school I could afford (the scholarship offer I received from MIT was insuffiecient)

3. I worked my ass off at MSU and at my first job as an engineer and when I was accepted at Harvard I had to borrow a significant multiple of what I had to go there.

4. I've worked very hard since and paid that loan off and raised 4 kids and have a wonderful marriage for 27 years.

5. I run a successful company that I spent 8 years turning around.

6. I've made enough money to enjoy a nice lifestyle and in particular be able to enjoy the great sport of triathlon.

7. I know that I am very lucky to be where I am. I worked very hard for it but I know I'm also lucky.

8. As a result of this I get to have things that others don't. I have a nice house and I go on nice vacations.

None of the above makes me an "elitist douchebag". I'd point out that just because someone is more or less successful does not impart any level of moral superiority. Just because I've enjoyed some success doesn't mean I have less of a right to enjoy myself in triathlon.

It does mean I have more disposable income to spend on this expensive sport. If the WTC prices some folks out of the market than that's what happens in a free market economy.

Anyone that is posting in this forum is already so vastly more wealthy (and lucky) than the majority of the people in the world--think about how unfair the WTC's pricing is to people living in shacks in Somalia--thing about that when you lament not being able to buy $3000 zipp wheels.

If you don't like WTC's pricing complain about it--it's your right and if it makes you feel better great!

If you'd like to be able to afford some things you currently can't then try working harder or smarter--maybe you'll get lucky too. Or maybe not--life is like that. Odds are nothing will happen unless you try.

But please get off your high horse and stop railing on people who can afford what the WTC charges (or Porsche or the Ritz) and are happy to do so. YOu'd do the same in a heartbeat if you could.

If I'm responding to the wrong post well than nevermind!

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Count me in on that group..I have no problem paying entry fees for events(almost 7k this year) it is the way that WTC is going about it's business that has turned me against them.I know they are the coolest thing in tri's here in Nth America but what they are doing overseas is plain bullshit.This latest development is just bloody stupid,not on their part but on the part of those who are buying into the whole M-Dot cult.

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The straw that broke the camel's back ?
Where's the Ironman Spirit in there ??

Join our "Say to to Ironman $$$ Sport Business" group on FB to disagree !!
http://www.facebook.com/...39068739298&ap=1

CU