wow..........is all i can say..............................

$1000.00

Free Market Capitalism

$1000 for access to early registration? Wow! You do also get an official membership ID card.

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A thousand dollars for the privilege of cutting in line? Nice! I would love to know how many people will bite...

So much for Placid 2012...unless I skip the first day of the bar exam to head out there and volunteer.

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Not saying it is right or wrong, but it seems to be the same thing as a personal seat license.

It might have been a better deal a few years ago when you had to be in Lake Placid or Penticton to sign up, but still not shocking.

Wow. That is F'ing re-damn-diculous.
But, I guess the $1,000 fee might be the same thing that some people spend to travel to a race and volunteer.
I wonder how many races will even make it to on-line registration now.
In order of entry:
1. Ironman Access card holders get to the front of the line
2. Current year participants get to sign up the day before the event they are about to participate in.
3. Volunteers get to walk up the morning after the race
4. Non-volunteers get to walk up the morning after the race
5. On-line registration
6. Community Fund

I think they will post in one month that it is "at capacity" to make people rush in ala Ironman Texas.

Dude yo get all this:
In addition to exclusive, advance registration, Ironman Access will offer perks including an official membership ID card; a second chance in the Ironman Lottery Program*; two VIP passes per registered event; a one-year subscription to LAVA Magazine; discounts on Ironman partner products at shopironman.com and at Ironman’s on-site event retail stores; and a 2010 Ford Ironman World Championship NBC broadcast DVD. Membership benefits are valid for one year starting from activation date. In order to take advantage of early event registration, membership must be current. The annual membership fee is $1,000 USD.

I just hope there is a 30 day trial period where I can get my money back if not satified. They probably got the memo that IM has only 15 years left of turning a profit and are trying to squezze all they can out of it now.

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Why not do the Community fund if you don't get in. At least you get the tax deduction instead of giving them more money. How much are Community slots these days?

Hey don't be a hater they are saving the sport,Slowtwitch says so!! ;-)


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The NYT article seems more realistic now.

Exactly - I'd rather give up money to a worthy non-profit - plus my wife would kill me if I dropped 1000 clams just for the privilege to sign up early. Oh well - I think I will risk not getting a slot the old fashioned way and see what happens.

Community fund spots are more expensive than that. What I find amusing is that they include the Lava subscription...that you would get when you register for a race anyways!

corporate


whooooores

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Say what you want, but it appears to me the guys at Providence Equity are some smart mofo's. Everything they are doing is increasing the value of their brand. No doubt they will unload this thing in a few years time at a huge profit.

In the end, that's what it's all about.

So am I reading that right, it doesn't even include the actual race registration itself... You're paying an extra grand just so you can spend another $600 (or whatever) before the next guy spends his?

Yep. I wonder if they get special bib numbers or different colored ones too?

Yep, definitely worthwhile. The subscription to Lava and the DVD push it over the edge.

They'll sell a ton of these.

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but, you get discounts on Ironman Products... like this:

http://www.walmart.com/...4&ci_sku=8477603

Just checked, community slot for IMWI is $1,150 which includs registration and you get a $575 tax deduction, which is worth $175 at a 30% bracket.

Thank god I have no desire to do an Ironman.

Not bad it is like the Disney FAST PASS. Bow down before me you mere commoners<insert pink

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Smart business if you ask me. I bet they "sell them out".

Count me in. M-dot tattoos are now a dime a dozen at your local sports pub. I bet I will really impress the chicks with the "exclusive" membership card.

In reality, it is a free market, and I stopped giving WTC my money a few years ago supporting non-WTC race organizers. They will charge it as long as there is someone to pay it.

If I had to stand in line for IM registration with two small children that are hungry and thirsty and only want to "see the M-Dot man" you'd be darn right I would buy the membership. Fast Pass at Disney= happy kids and happy kids= happy mom and happy mom= a dad that doesn't go nuts.

You're right...I wasn't adding in the reg. fee. But I also don't think that every race has Foundation slots. And you don't get the DVD. ;)

it comes w vip pass....i want some autogragh s

I suspect the majority of them would fill by step 4.

Ugh...this really disappoints me. Thankfully I already have an IM under my belt before it costs $5,000 just to register for one. It's just becoming way too prohibitive.

Is anyone actually entertaining the idea of doing this? I was not a WTC-hater but this is really starting to annoy me. That and the fact that the Miami race I'm about to do is a massive clusterf*ck so far so I'm losing faith.

I suppose I'll take my chances at registering online for the next one I want to do. Paying $1500 ($1000 + registration fee) seems ridiculous!

On a larger scale, I think there are enough barriers to entry in this sport for folks who aren't rich. It's expensive to get all the equipment, fitness memberships, coaching, travel, entry fees, clothing, whatever else you spend to get yourself to the starting line. Now they just made it cost THAT MUCH MORE to even be able to PARTICIPATE in their races. Total nonsense, and very exclusionary.

BOO!

HAHAHA - the fact that you even know that exists made me crack up! Now I know what I can ask for X-mass.

Haven't seen you on the roads in Arlington these days!

Community slots are the way to go as overall it's a ton cheaper...maybe they are planning on raising that entry fee after this announcement.

What's unclear is the "filled up" thing since it's a one year membership? So on Oct. 31st 2011, you can register again for it as first come first serve?

Absolutely! They are pumping this thing up as fast as they can, then they'll unload it and watch from the sidelines as it deflates.

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This just motivated me to look into Rev3 events with more interest. I think I read there is one coming to the southeast in 2010 or 2011?

fixed it for ya!

I wonder how much people would pay just to do Kona? I mean open up lets say 100 slots or something. It would be in the same range as climbin Everest or something like that in cost right?

Not really, the IMC community fund price was $1100. The IMAccess only gives you advanced registration you still have to pay for the race.

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Total crap. But, let me try to offer up some constructive criticism.
If this $1,000 Membership fee included some version of the following, it might actually make sense:

1. Race transfer is available, with no questions asked. Signed up for IMAZ but broke your leg a week later? You can push your reg out to the following year or transfer to another race that is not sold out.
2. Instead of letting you sign up a week in advance, how about holding out some of these slots to let someone sign up 6 months before the race. I might cough up a little extra money so I don't have to plan things 12 months in advance.
3. Disounted entry into a 70.3 or 5150 race.

You are all haters 'cause you don't have the Titanium M-Dot card like I have.

It's super secret.

And super exclusive.

Even better than the AMEX black card.

I know there are other IM distance that go on through out the US, but is there any other org that can compete with WTC? Being relatively new to Tri's, all I heard at first was IM this and IM that.

I believe if WTC had a little competition that was well known then they would drop their prices on their races (which are supported mainly by volunteers...no overhead cost)

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Sell out. I bet there is no limit to the number of "members". If there is a limit, its probably as high as the total number of competitors in all ironman events.

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Comical to me that anyone has a problem with this. You have no "right" to affordable triathlons.

Those that can afford to race will...those that can't won't. Seems pretty simple to me. Most of this forum is acting like WTC has some responsibility to keep prices low so the common folk can participate.

I'm also going to send a letter to Bently and tell them their cars are too damn expensive and they should be ashamed of themselves.

I don't even know how popular this will be. I assume it will be like any other VIP program and a few people will sign up who can afford it and guarantee their spot in line. I doubt it affects your ability to sign up for a race at all.

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"1. Race transfer is available, with no questions asked. Signed up for IMAZ but broke your leg a week later? You can push your reg out to the following year or transfer to another race that is not sold out."

That will be next, for only an extra $300. Back to the OP, great news for those that have the money. Those that don't, just makes things harder or time to look at very good alternatives.

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I am not a hater either but I am getting that way. I saw what the WTC did to some vendors in Kona this year and it just about made me vomit..
All that said this is the best post by far,,, ,very creative and even though I read the new fee and laughed, I would be interested if it had the items listed here. Really cool..

They did that a few years ago with charity slots for Kona on e-Bay. IIRC, all went for low five figures.

At least the VIP membership doesn't come with a 'get out of jail free' card for your first minor penalty on course. (Or, shit, did I just give them an idea?)

That isn't a good analogy. When was Bentley selling cars to the masses at affordable prices? Its like Toyota selling the Corola for 20 years, developing a following and then within a span of 18-24 month slowly raising the prices on cars to the point where your original fan base can't afford or can't stomach paying the prices. I'm for capitalism, but in this case I'm not a fan. I guess it is rooted more in personal feelings since as a kid I always dreamed of racing in IM races, especially Kona. I like the idea of bringing new people and kids into the sport and the IM brand draws this. When you put it out of reach for so many people it will begin to put many people off to the sport entirely, not just IMs.

I wouldn't find it as bad if there were more iron distance races in the country. I agree there's no "right", but it I think its an indicator that WTC is far more concerned about the bottom line.

That's perfectly fine, and within their absolute right to do; I would just hope that some of the more aggressive Kool Aid drinkers would stop calling them stewards.

Been done on eBay for charity. Slots went for $30,000 to $40,000 if I remember.

And woo hoo on the VIP pass! I had one last year at IM AZ and you get free food and drink! :-)

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I guess my Corola analogy isn't that good either considering how much competition there is in that category in the automotive world. Triathlon just doesn't have that yet at the IM distances.

What's the problem? Apparently you didn't see the part where the 1k is listed under BENIFITS

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Rather than look back and say "why?", look forward and say "why not?!"

VIP passes to what?

i agree. the business model is spot on.

put your biases aside for a second and think about it.

they have a product where no matter what they raise the price to, the consumer cannot buy enough.

their raceday workforce is largely volunteer. brilliant. they donate to the community so the community loves having them.

people wear/tatoo/display their logo all over the place for free.

now they are offering a package where you can pay EVEN MORE to jump to the front of the line. I bet it sells out in no time.

Say all you want about how they are alienating us, their core consumer. But in reality, the races will sell out at any price, no matter if we are the ones paying entry fees or not.

I think it's laughable from my chair, but as a business, they are killing it.

Agreed, I think it's a great idea. I wouldn't do it, but if someone else wants to, why not sell it to them? What are we, France? ;)

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You realize you don't have to pay the $1000, right? IM races have only had a modest increase in cost in the last 18-24 months. About a 10% increase in registration cost which represents probably less than 1% of the total cost of doing a race. I don't think anyone has been priced out of the races compared to 2 years ago.

In the end a small handful of people will sign up for this and then we will forget about it. I'm not ready to run around in circles panicing just yet.

Thom

There are now a limited number of VIPs that have some pretty remarkable access "inside the ropes" and I've even seen some VIPs brought in to help in some of the volunteer areas (IMWI wetsuit stripping as an example)...not that they did anything...just milled around and waited for their person and GOT IN THE WAY!!.....this "perk" has the potential to make transition areas and finish lines WAY more chaotic......

Big frown from me as I was going to keep dreaming the Passport Club dream of getting to the big dance.......now I am being told to wait behind another line before I get a chance.....not pleased.....

So a decision that was pending is now made.....I'm headed to Vineman in 2012!

Paul

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I think this is brilliant! This lets them test to waters to see how far under-priced the existing entries are. If the races are selling out, then they are either exactly properly priced, or they are under-priced.

If people want to pay $1000 more, then they can. At the same time, IM is being careful not to accidentally price itself out of the market. IM is able to test a price increase without actually raising the entry fees.

Like 'em or not, these guys are really smart, and I applaud them.

They should also allow partial refunds, then they should re-sell the refunded slots for a premium of 100 or 200%. I've never understood why they don't do that.

If I were IM, I would look at the percentage of the "Annual IM Price-Tag" which I am collecting. Right now, I bet that is around 10%, maybe 20%. Travel, lodging, training food, bikes, equipment, clothes, etc. IM is just trying to push the envelope to see if it can capture a larger percentage.

As I said in another thread, don't give them your money if you don't see value in the products and services IM is offering.

I guess I just don't see them selling out. The reason is simple....value.
I don't see the value in being a member. Now...if they start removing other options, then there may be some value, but not now.

If I want to race an IM there are multiple ways to get in.
normal entry. or volunteer and enter that way.
online entry is available for almost all IM's now.
several training plan and travel companies have IM type packages.
Charitable foundation slots.
And I am sure there are more.

So why would I pay 1000 for something I can very easily get for free or cheaper?

Maybe I'm crazy, but right now the main "benefit" of this program is worthless. (to me)

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Titanium? Pfft. WhatEVER.

I have a carbon fiber card, with fibers hand laid by virgins, baptised by the blood of a TdF winner, and hand delivered by Mirinda Carfrae riding a prototype tri-bike made of pure frozen oxygen.

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They are more expensive but remember you can deduct 750 bucks from your taxes at the end of the year. With this you can't.

did i read the thing right?

technically it's still first come first serve? so you could potentially (if 3000 people did this before you) NOT get a spot even after paying the $1000?

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Tim

Good points, but clearly they're aware of the "value" analysis, and is there anything keeping them from tightening the noose on other points of entry like community funds, 3rd party travel/training companies, or even volunteer slots?

ETA: as you alluded to in your post.

Evil geniuses.

If it results in fewer open spots...Then Less travel, more money to do the local TRIs..

BINGO!!! Well said.

I'll add this: if Providence Equity Partners were hiring I'd be first in line.

I stood in line to register for LP sandwiched between two guys, neither of which were racing. One raced in 2009, signed up for 2010 with no intention of racing so he could get into 2011 early. The other guy was injured and not sure about 2011 but securing a spot was worth the $600. There are two dudes that would fork over the grand. I'd probably consider it if it meant not traveling to the race site a year out which could cost that much.

I'd also rather have one in ten gebroni's fork over the money than have entry fees go up a hundred bucks. But you know they are going to go up regardless.

This all leads me to the point that this is a little short sighted on WTC's part. I guess it is the result of having making decisions based on surveys and demographics from the board room. I was talking to a few locals from Lake Placid when I was there and they were all getting pretty fed up with the race for a host of reasons. For one, the athletes all bring their own food and have special diets, so, the only people to benefit are the rental property owners and most them live out of town. They also do not like the idea of working an aid station all day for free. The access program further limits the volunteer pool. Those would all be people that would travel to town, probably eat out since they aren't racing and volunteer so they can register early. I hope some of that $1000 goes to paying some locals that help put on these races.

i was thinking the same thing
atleast i get to claim it on taxes

D

I can't wait to flash that card around town!

Agree with you, but I don't think it's going to be successful for them. I've got a few extra bucks, but sorry IM, I'm not buying this. Come to think of it, I don't think I'll be volunteering at their races anymore either. There are plenty of other great non-IM races.

That's why I said the words "right now".
Tomorrow the community fund slot could be $3,000 and general entry could be $2,000 unless you have your membership...in which case it is $600. That would certainly make the membership more valuable. And I would not do another IM ever again. :-)

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Well I for one feel completely vindicated. WTC = We Take the Cash and again, this is all about starting to milk it for what it is worth before the big sell off.

If people are not concerned... you should be... This is the start of a "Pump and Dump" and in a couple of years, the WEH will sell the over-bloated carcass of the WTC which by that time will have been over expanded and what you will see in the end are fewer and less well run races and a lot of carnage along the way.

I am sickened by the price, but hardly surprised. Another reason why I have not signed up for a WEH/WTC race next year, but am locked into Quassy, thinking about their new SC race, and so far will pass on Timberman and Austin as one-and-done races.

And for folks not in the know... Watch your $$$$. In the next year you will see:

Gas --> Back up to $4/$5 a gallon and oil back to $150 - $200 a barrel
Hidden Taxes --> Most don't understand THEY will be paying the tax on THEIR EMPLOYEER'S contribution to their health costs... In short, if you pay $3K a year for your health and your employer pays $3K, you now will be paying tax on that $3K. In short, you have $3K income to pay tax on without actually making $3K more
Gold --> Expecting to break $2K/oz
Mortgage --> Huge fallout as the 99'ers (people who have been unemployed for 99 weeks and finally exhausted unemployment) really are out of options. As well, if you watch MBS, there are many questions now about improperly registered deeds and who actually owns the "Title" to the home. If you think foreclosures were bad the last 18 months, you have not seen anything yet. Also... If you BOUGHT a foreclosed home, because of the short cuts made by the loan companies, a lot of these homes DO NOT have clear title and will lose their homes.

Granted, Triathletes tend to be more affluent than a lot of other segments of the population, but the economic shit-storm coming will be huge.

But you get a DVD also. Other guy does not!

Man, it's getting to the point where inner city kids can't afford to do ironman anymore.

Ha, that's awesome Bryan!
I like it. Good (short-term) business model and long term? Who knows. I doubt I would do this, but if I really was set on a certain race that sells out very fast every year I would consider it.

Heck, just sounds like good ole' American capitalism to me.

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It is always the kids that suffer isn't it?

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Just thought a new benefit that they could add to the list.
WTC should do some sort of VIP Membership card.
Raced a 5150? You get 2 points
Raced a 70.3? You get 5 points
Raced a 140.6? You get points 10 points
You get 20 points in a year and you get to enter races early or late.
Or you can buy points. $50 per point. The more WTC events you do, the easier WTC makes it for you to keep coming back.
WTC then gives special "VIP Gifts" to the people with the most points (earned only, not purchased) at the end of the season. (They could give away an IM branded bed set or dog bowl)

does anyone else feel that this most significantly affects those that would like to qualify for kona? if you are an average age grouper, there are other options out there if you would like to compete in an ironman distance event.

I did my IM races before IM got "really big". Got the tatto well before people starting bitching about the free advertising. Actually didn't even do an IM branded race. GFT was good enough for the distance. It ain't "who" puts on the race......its the "distance" of the race.

I'd like to know of all the people bitching about prices, and too many entrants, and on and on and how they all hate WTC for making tons of money and how they are pricing the "core" triathletes out of IM events.........how many of these guys are signed up for an IM branded race : )

When I did my IM races at GFT the field was like 400-500 people. You could ride for 30 minutes and not even see another racer. The only bad thing about that was you always wondered if you had taken a wrong turn and went off course. THAT raised your heart rate : ) When the course got crowded you could actually see 1 or 2 other cyclists on the road.

There are tons of options out there......ya don't like IM.....don't give them your money.........race esewhere. I'd do GFT again before I did any other IM distance race. SommerSports treated all the racers like kings.

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To me it just seems like the next logical step in a business model. Think of it like airplane seating--most of us are in the coach section of WTCair and having to deal with the pains associated with it: standing in line to sign up, or madly trying to log in to a website, or having to volunteer in order to stand in a slightly shorter line to sign up. Then guys at WTCair figured a certain percentage would pay a lot for a more exclusive package, and the IM-XC was born. Based on the success of the first class IM-XC, they've now come out with a business class package--some benefits and exclusivity, but not as sweet (or as expensive) as the XC.

You could argue rightly that a certain, small percentage of slots will now become less available as people can skip to the head of the line. At its worst, this is only a way to separate more cash from people who have even more disposable income than the rest of us; at its best, it's a useful way for people who plan on racing 2 IMs to be able to guarantee their slots without having to physically go to the race to sign up the year before. And could be financially reasonable for those people--the cost of flying, staying in hotels, and incidentals just to sign up could easily end up being over a thousand bucks.

Is it a blatant money grab? Sure--they're a business and always looking to make more money. But in the end I don't see how it will really impact my enjoyment of the race.

Just my 2 cents.

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does anyone else feel that this most significantly affects those that would like to qualify for kona? if you are an average age grouper, there are other options out there if you would like to compete in an ironman distance event.

Ironman was already to the point where it was squeezing out regular people who wanted to attempt something extraordinary, and with the Access Membership, they've simply assured that IM will now mostly be raced by elitist douchebags. I hope the stupid entry fees and now the blackmailish Access Membership will encourage new IM distance races, and perhaps even more innovation with race distances (I thought the 101 was a great idea, but apparently, the market didn't). Lets start with a new tri series in which the distances for each discipline are relatively equal in time of completion. Give us swimmers a chance!

Disappointing. As it is, it's hard enough for the 'average' participant to get signed up for that (non-refundable) entry a full year in advance. I'm a fan of Ironman (ok, to be fair my first experience was a lottery slot to Kona), and am headed to my fourth next month at IMAZ, but it seems like there's been a shift in mentality. It's no longer about the sport and the lifestyle, but rather the money. WTC olympic-distance races? Ironman perfume, scales, and beds? Just seems to be getting out of hand. It's a shame that all of the product endorsements and superflous fees are overshadowing and tarnishing the sense of accomplishment and experience to be had from completing these events.

Just out of curiousiity, who are "regular people" and why does WTC have any obligation to them?

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I'm not the least bit surprised by this tactic as it's been where WTC has been pointing.

the key thing to note, that in all but the most fervent markets for a sport, PSL's inevitably fail in almost all cases. For example, take the NHL. The toronto maple leafs are the center of the hockey universe, and their wait list for season tickets is years long (literally). they can sell PSL's and get away with it, if they had any to sell. The columbus Blue Jackets on the other hand, an also ran in the sport, the PSL's for their seats have literally killed the resale value to season ticket holders. it's happening across all major sports. Even the Yankees have had to drop ticket prices.

That said, it will work for a while. Races are full as it is, but as prices go up, and the economy underperforms, and the most desirable races become difficult to get into even if you qualify, people will look elsewhere.

As for the question of if you're bitching about WTC are you still giving them money? Well, we're doing Mooseman, because it's the only local-ish 70.3 that fits our schedule this summer. But our first IM distance race will be Rev3 Cedar Point, which is even on sale from an entry fee perspective for the next couple months. win-win in my book.

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I agree 100%. I don't understand the complaining at all. There are many affordable alternatives to WTC races that are as inexpensive as "ironman" races will ever be. Why bitch "sour grapes" at WTC when it is you that are giving them the "power" of the brand. Too many don't want to do the distance - they want to Ironman cheaper. If you don't want to pay for the Bentley - buy the Corolla!!! WTC us not the owner of the distance, just the Brand. If you don't think they are doing the sport to your taste or budget, support someone who is. There are many struggling non brand ironman races.

I was at the first GFT back in 1991 and again last weekend. The race has not really changed much. It still has that hometown feel and low key support. You still can get lost on the course as you are all alone. You can still get hotel reservations without a jacked up price. You can enter the night before if you want. No big screen, no Internet, not big expos, no pros, light competition, not VIPS, unguarded intersections, no one to draft off even if you wanted. No crowds, no one at the finish when the winner crosses the line (that was just sad). So if so many want this type of race, why is Fred losing money putting it on every year and WTC sells out a year ahead? I would love to see him get 500-700 entries instead of 250.

Don't blame WTC for giving people what they seem to want and maximizing their profits by doing so. WTC "Ironman" is not a charity, its a entertainment business. I think it was said of Disney actually "nobody goes there because of the crowds".

Quit bitching and support those who give you what you want - they are out there waiting for you.

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Just another of those "great things" WTC has done for the sport.

I fully intend to. But as they are now trying to monopolize and lock out other races for long time periods, I'd like someone to put a serious legal body check on them first.

Today World Triathlon Corporation (WTC) launches an exclusive athlete membership program called Ironman Access. In addition to other member benefits, the program will offer advance registration for Ironman events worldwide before entries open to the general public. Membership into Ironman Access is on a first-come, first-served basis and will close once it reaches capacity.

Today United Airlines(UA) launches an exclusive business traveler membership program called UA Access. In addition to other member benefits, the program will offer, access to blacked out flight periods, express check-in, and a pass into the UA Access executive business lounge at select airports. Membership to UA Access is on a first come first served basis and to preserve exclusivity, will be closed once it reaches capacity.

So strange! ;-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I am going to view IMAccess in the same light as I view other sporting events. Think of it this way...

You go to a NFL game and spend $100 per ticket for the game to sit in nose-bleed seats. $50 for parking and $9 for a beer. At the end of the day, you could have watched from you couch, had a better view and saved a whole lot of money...but the draw is to be at the game and be part of the atmosphere.

IMAccess gives you the ability to guarantee you will be at a race. So, if you don't want to sit and deal with the aggravation of 1) getting onto active.com 2) praying you get through and 3) hoping the site doesn't crash; if you have the money, then it might be worth it.

Pretty much, IMAccess is going to make the WTC a lot of cash and people are going to spend the money to guarantee entry into a race. So who is dumber? The WTC for offering this option or the people who are willing to pay it?


To be clear, I don't condone what they are doing nor would I spend the $1k to be part of it. However, I can't blame them for taking advantage of the popularity of their events...

"Regular people" are people who don't have $1,500 to spend to race an event. "Regular people" are people who make the median income in this country, which in 2008, was $50,000 PER HOUSEHOLD (not per person), and which is going down every year. "Regular people" are people who don't want to spend 3% of their annual household income on a single event. $1,500 is a barrier to entry for many regular people.

As to your question as to "why WTC has any obligation to regular people," I don't know why you ask that, as I assiduously avoided either stating such an opinion, or even intimating such an opinion. For the record, I don't believe that WTC owes any constituency anything other than what it offers them. If it offers a well run race for $500.00, it owes nothing more and nothing less.

The fact that WTC owes nothing to anyone, however, does not mean that they are insulated from criticism, particularly when they have what is essentially monopoly power over the IM distance event. Anyone who knows markets knows that monopolies are antithetical to free market functioning. Monopolies raise prices and stagnate innovation because they can, without fear of negative consequences. Even if the company exercising the monopoly created the market (as WTC's predecessors in interest did) monopolies are bad for business, and we are seeing that in action, with ever increasing race fees, and now a $1,000.00 annual membership fee. Such costs stifle participation from regular people, and put the sport more on par with polo and sailing. That is why elitist douhebags will love this move- they can separate themselves from others by participating in a sport that others can not because of their economic status.

And that is why I concluded my original post with the hope that the increasing prices and heavy-handedness of WTC will spawn innovation and competition.

Fair enough, and for sure anyone can be critical of their decisions. But it is a voluntary program and has no bearing on the current standard entry fee or procedure for "regular people", so the cost isn't $1500, it's still the same, what $550 or so. The fact that they sell out so quickly isn't WTC's fault and if anyone wants to do the their race, they can either show up on site or hope they are fast on Active.com. Or for $1000 extra, they can sign up at their leaisure early. As has been mentioned, WTC is a premium brand, they don't have to make their events affordable. If I were them I wouldn't as long as the market is there.

And the demographics of Ironman participants, WTC's clients, is far away from your definations of regular folks. So if regular people as per that definition don't race Ironman, why would WTC cater to them?

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I can't wait until they start charging volunteers to "volunteer" at the race for the opportunity to register early.

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http://trainingoferic.blogspot.com/

Thats kind of backwards. No one can compete with WTC unless they have backing of the athletes first. People have to support the local IM distance races FIRST. Then that company can begin to compete with WTC, not the other way around. There's no company that holds races and has enough capital, that can "body check" WTC without racers support first.

DO LOCAL RACES!!!

I'm out of IM races since it is no longer fun, for ME. But, I'd never do an IM branded race anyway. Its not my kind of atmosphere. WAY TOO many people on and off the course. The little guy gets my money.

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Paul

mmmmm, Rev 3, mmmm

You must have a very loose comprehension of the term "monopoly."

At first you say they have "essentially monopoly power" and then go on to say that you hope this spawns competition. If they were a monopoly, no one would be able to compete. Right now, they are simply the only ones doing what they are doing. That is not a monopoly. That is a lack of competition through no fault of the WTC. The growth of Triathlon as a whole will spawn competition for the WTC. They will not be the only player for long. Not when they are getting the kind of ROI that they are.

I was thinking of opening a Triathlon store in my area. I would be the only store for at least 30-40 miles. That doesn't make my a monopoly.....

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3

I think that when they attempt to monopolize a market so much as to have a legal blackout of dates within a window of theirs, it's not so backwards at all.

I'll be happy to do local, non WTC races but, unfortunately almost none of them are IM distance races (the one we had wasn't even held this year) and few of them will ever be able to compete if practices like the "blackout" thing they tried to recently are allowed to proceed.

It could just turn out that the folks crazy enough to cough up the Geezle are the same ones who used to have the dough to travel to the race a year in advance to sign up. Net effect could be almost zero impact to a guy like me hoping to get in before registration closes sitting here at my desk. WTC just plays against type A OCD and fear and puts a few K more in thier coffers per year. Other than the registration fee increase (OMG, $625+?), no biggie for the Bigun.

OR (and more likely) -

IMAZ11 closes out before online registration and I have to do (get to do) B2B11 instead. I can promise you that I'm not paying for the privilege to guarantee my entry. Even if I could afford it.

It would be neat to know the registration-type data each year; prior racers, volunteers, at-race entrants, on-line entrants, etc. Fear of loss - it's a powerful thing!

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http://www.clydesdaleshavebigbikes.blogspot.com

I wonder if the BAA has read about this in light of their Boston Marathon filling in 1 day and thought to themeselves "cha-ching!!!"...

The funniest thing is people on ST who are bitching and moaning are going to also be shelling out the $1grand to insure the do a WTC IM.

I kind of think this might push a couple of people over the edge towards an independent IM or the Rev 3 series. But for the most part, I think they sell out of these slots if <1000 slots.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Make sure you send your emails to access@ironman.com

This is paaaaaaaaaaathetic!

x2

The PGA charges, (well, at least I know they did for the PGA Championships awhile back), but it was a discounted price from a regular ticket. You pay to volunteer, but you also got 2, 4 day tickets into the event. It was a lot cheaper to volunteer than it was to buy a regular ticket.

How? They figured out a way to potentially raise more revenue from a small percentage of racers while keeping race entry fees the same for most people. People should be pleased IM didn't just raise all entry fees another $100.

I've done the Esprit IM in Montreal, a fantastic event for first-timers, and will be doing Beach to Battleship in a couple of weeks. I've also done three IM brands. They are all great races, and if WTC did not act the way they do, and charge what they charge, I would continue to race WTC races. But I am voting with my pocketbook, and I can't see my self doing a WTC race anytime soon (That said, If they came out with a race that I really wanted to do, I wouldn't not do it simply because it was a WTC event). If people continue to do WTC races, and are happy with the product and the service they received for the price, then they should continue to happily race WTC. For those of us who think that WTC has become more of a burden to Triathlon then a blessing, I think we should vote with our pocketbooks, and not be afraid to discuss our dissapointment with the direction that IM has taken.

my intial reaction was just like many here, somewhat aghast. Upon further reflection, I wonder what, if any, real impact this will have. I am certain there will be a number of folks that sign up. I say that because I would consider it if I had a race I wanted to do and wanted to guarantee entry (although this does not guarantee entry).

That said there are IM races that do not sellout (or at least no even close to immediately)...Cozumel being one. I think this option stops those that went to Penticon or LP to stand in line (which actually seems reasonable), but I am not sure it will reduce the opportunity for many in real world application.

I think the real demand for IM races is not as high as most think. I understand that many sellout quickly, but I do not believe tens of thousands are turned away, I think there is a small subset of folks that do not get in to the event they want and they will be the ones to decide if $1k is worth the price of admission.

Oh and WTC = money grubbing **ores

This kind of pissed me off also when I read it - but if you think about it as an alternative to traveling to a race and volunteering
it has some appeal.

I like working races and try to do at least one per year (local ones, not IMs) , but if you're busy or don't particularly like wearing a reflective
vest, this is a reasonable alternative.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

It is ridiculous. Unfortunately, the WTC is a for-profit organization. When you continually increase your prices year after year yet sell out races faster year after year it is hard to not continually find ways to make more money and continue to raise the prices. I don't like it but it will continue and probably at the same pace we see growth in triathlon. Vote with your feet, I doubt the private equity guys read slowtwitch forum posts nor care what they say if they did.

I'm already registered for next year's IM KY, but things like this make me more likely to go indy for future IMs.

My reaction is colored by the emotions I have in connection with the WTC events I have done.

Ironman Canada was more than "A Race" for me. It was one of those "life events" that really affect who you are and who you become. I was fortunate enough to do it four times, all before WTC became so ragingly crass. It was still something of a hometown race 10 years ago, and that's how I remember it.

I also raced at Lake Placid on its fifth anniversary. Got spanked that day, but loved the course, loved the town, loved the friends with whom I shared a house and the race, and have always dreamed of going back.

I think my resentment about this latest money-grab by WTC has to do with the feeling that they have effectively relieved me of my fantasy of ever going back to those particular races. They have reduced events that, to me, are more than "just races" to simple commodities subject to the laws of supply and demand.

My rational self agrees with those who point out that this is a savvy business move, testing the waters to see "what the market will bear". My rational self also agrees that "there are other races", and one does not have to race WTC races.

Those things are true. But my emotional self mourns, because now I can't go back to THOSE races. Because THOSE races are now expensive "trinkets" that I just can't afford. Whatever practical arguments you might want to make about simply doing other races, the fact remains that certain events that WTC owns are simply SPECIAL. And they know it. It's not the WTC brand that's special--- it's the particular events. And those two events in particular will get snapped up by "Access" members, guaranteed.

And then, of course, there is Kona. Canada has always actually been a better event, to tell you the truth. But Kona is the granddaddy. It's just hard to see something that originally had such an aura of transcendence about it being reduced over the years to a mere sales gimmick. But heck, it's happened to Everest as well.

I guess everything's for sale, in the end. Bummer!

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TriBaby
"The rule is, jam yesterday, and jam tomorrow, but NEVER jam today." ---The White Queen

Then don't. Personally, I am having a hard time stifling a yawn over this one. They will continue to raise prices until they are at an equilibrium and marginal profits top out. This is kind of a clever way to do it.

PEP bought this thing at the top of the last market and damn there better be a pony in there somewhere. I wish them luck.

Oh yeah, I just hadda laugh. When I first got the spammail on this, I glanced at it and thought the price tag was $100 and just shook my head. Took a closer look, saw it was $1000, and just started laughing! at the sheer balls on dem WTC'ers. I would love to have been in that meeting when this idea was generated and hashed out. They sure like those nice round numbers, and how to focus on the leverage, leverage, leverage....

Two things I kinda like about it:
1. if you wanted to do a Dean Karnazas and hit an IM a month around the world, you could be sure of getting in.
2. The WTC makes no apologies for their agenda and just goes forward with it-man, you gotta give 'em that, no more pretending with an IM family thing, deep respect for the sport, it's all about the dream...

Oops, sorry, 3 things-
3. you get a membership card!

WTC is starting to remind me of the only kid on the block who owned a football. If he didn't score a TD on every touch, he just took it and went home....

TriBaby, thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts. You said it perfectly.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

I think we may agree more than you think

One does not have to have 100% of the market to have a monopoly. One has "monopoly power" when one is able to raise the price of its goods without any negative consequence. Right now, WTC essentially has monopoly power over iron distance racing from the point of view of the participant. There are few iron distance races available, and the vast majority of iron-distance races are controlled by WTC. From the point of view of the triathlon participant, WTC has monopoly power over who can race in Iron distance racing.

And although they have now moved into the realm of trying to prevent competition by blacking out dates before AND AFTER their events (give me one good reason why they need a black out AFTER an event -other than to prevent competition) they do not have monopoly power over who can run an iron-distance race. And that is where the competition comes in, and why the notion of competition is not inconsistent with a claim of monopoly by the WTC. Because (aside from the aforementioned attempt by WTC to blackout dates) there are no WTC imposed barriers to putting on an iron distance race, once enough people become disaffected with WTC, an entrepenuer will start a triathlete-friendly im-distance raceor race series. So I agree to a certain extent that just because they are the only ones doing what they are doing, that doesn't make them a monopoly.


as for your comment that "the growth of Triathlon as a whole will spawn competition for the WTC" I agree, but WTC's policies (in my opinion) have not really been dedicated to growth of the sport--rather, as many who agree or disagree with the WTC have said, their policies have been about making money. After all, WTC is not an organization owned by athletes or sportsman who do what they do because of the love of the sport, its owned by financiers, who are looking to squeeze every last dime out of the brand that they can, for as long as they can.

As you say "They will not be the only player for long." I agree, and its my opinion that their strategy of brand management and profit optimization will accelerate that competition.

I wonder if you get a "free" IM sticker?

While I undedrstand that WTC is a business and wants to maximize it's profits so that it can sell off everything in 2 or 3 years there is nothning that says that we have to play with them.

The term Ironman means nothing now since they have devalued it to the point where anyone can go to their Tampa store and buy almost anything that says Ironman. It is no long a term represnting the pinnacle of human effort and endurance.

While I'm guilty as charged for participating in WTC event in the past I'm going to look at things very carefully in the future. Been there and done that and I for one have my limit as to how far I will be willingly abused - which is how I see it.

I didn't read through all the posts so sorry if this has been mentioned... looking at the list of events one can pre-register for - (2012 IMC, Wisconsin, Louisville, Wales) - WTC, for the low, low price of $1000 now gets to hold onto your registration fee for 2 years instead of the "normal" one year!!! :)

Didn't they raise (and then drop) the price of the community fund. About a year ago it was $1300, now it's back down to what it was before.

I bet this program doesn't last long (or at lest doesn't sell out). They don't have anything to lose in having it, but it's probably too much $.

great post and agreed Tricia. Nice to see you on here, it's been too long.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

I don't blame them for making money - but I think this is a bad move for the Ironman world championship. Continuing in this vein, instead of the Best of the Best - we will be down to the Best of the Best (who can afford it).

I'd sign up, but only if the membership card was carbon fiber.

Hi Mike! Yeah, I still check in every once in a while. Sorry for the public reply, everyone, I've forgotten how to Personal Message through ST.

Yeah, us old codgers, we have a very sentimental attachment to the older IM races that makes it hard to see them turned into mere cash cows. That place where emotions and business interests collide is always a minefield. They don't always play nicely together, do they?

I will be forever grateful to the "old" pre-WTC Ironman and IMNA organizations for providing a framework in which I had the privilege of testing myself and my physical limits. Basically, any of us is free to challenge our physical limits any time, any place; we don't have to rely on some organization to set that up for us. But it sure was "convenient", if you will, that those particular organizations ran these beautiful events known as "Ironman Triathlons" that gave the whole thing a structure. The races provide(d) a framework around which to focus your efforts, a simple goal that seemed at once achievable and formidable. It's a pretty awesome thing.

Just don't get too emotionally wrapped up in a WTC race now.

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TriBaby
"The rule is, jam yesterday, and jam tomorrow, but NEVER jam today." ---The White Queen

This is what happens when a business has little or no competition. I am going to take a closer look at some of the smaller, long course races. The refund policies and highest bidder mentality have tipped the scale.

Not really! You pay the $1,000 "early signup fee" and THEN still have to pay the $600 plus entry fee for the event, right?

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Well said TriBaby,I can absolutely relate.IMC is not the same as it was and I don't just mean the race, I mean the whole build up and community spirit during August.Some people like it now and that is fine but give me what it was through the '90s and I'd be a happy boy..I don't expect the newbies to understand why.

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Next logical step will be to raise the time limits to 17+hrs that will bring in even more fresh blood and we will see even more tatoos.

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I see obsessed people.

Will IM tattooed athletes remove the reminder of lost love?

Will people volunteer for an indifferent corporation?


My Angel is a centerfold.

I think what will happen from this is a bunch of bitching and threats to boycott followed by business as usual with WTC a bit richer and no worse for the wear. Curious how many will buy into this though...

Jodi

Yeah. I wonder if they will ever release the number of suckers triathletes who buy into this...

" two VIP passes per registered event; "

if the VIP passes are for Mons Venus, I'm in!!!

I have done a number of WTC events and I have not had any complaints. I usually take these bashing threads with a grain of salt, but this new program is a joke. I am part of the market they are shooting for, disposable income, time to travel and willingness to pay for good events ... but $1000 for the privilege of skipping a line up????

Good for them if they can put enough lipstick on this pig to sell it to anyone.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Still dressing up your farm animals I see.

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I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! There's gambling at Rick's Place as well!

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Would love love love to be the marketing-guy for Rev3 or any other iron distance event right now.

They could also make more money harvesting organ parts from incapacitation racers... I'm sure they could stick it somewhere in the voluminous small print...nothing personal, after all business is business...

Hell -- I was going to sign up -- $1000 is nothing -- even with the entry fee being extra --

Unfortunately, after talking with WTC, I am now told that you still have to race to get a t-shirt and finisher's medal.

This sucks -- for a $1000, I was expecting a finisher's medal and shirt regardless if I showed up or not.

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Have Fun ** Tri Hard ** Be Kind
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They still don't have Kona or the branding. Until that grip is broken, WTC will reign supreme. It will happen at some point, but with the growth in the sport and the high income demographics it draws, that day is FAR off.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

No offense but my advice is to take all of this energy and apply it to SBR-type activities. The WTC isn't the US government where you have a say (well at least a vote or two) and not doing what they say is against the law.

If you don't like what the WTC charges then just don't do it!

The responses to this thread are somewhat humorous. If you really didn't care you wouldn't be responding. Ferrari raised their prices last week and I bet you didn't get on "Fastwitch" to complain.

I for one think that the IM branded races are the best triathlons in the world. Kona 2010 was hands down one of the best experiences of my life. I'm not against doing B2B or GFT but I only have a few of these beasts left in me and with all of the energy I invest in getting ready for one of these I'm happy to pay their price (and No, I won't do the Access thing--at least this year because it doesn't fit in with my 2011 plans).

I think most IM distance triathletes agree with me--the WTC delivers the best value. I wish things were cheaper but you get what you pay for. it took me 10 years to pay off my Harvard loans but I'd do it again in a heartbeat!

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

This must be your lucky day. Send me your $1000 and I will get you a finishers shirt and medal from the IM of your choice! Please allow 1-2 weeks post event for ebaying of said items.

A community fund spot is more expensive than that but it includes the race fee. This doesn't. So compare community fund at 2 x price of race (say $1,200) versus this at $1,000 plus 1 x price of race ($1,600).

[Edit to use same price race in both examples, dummy!]

Only if the race directors can find quality venues that arent already covered by a blackout agreement with WTC.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

Need a Tea Party movement here to overthrow the "let them eat cake" cartel of WTC.........Johnny Utah to Bodie, "You're going down!" Perhaps we can piggyback on NY state's goofy gubernatorial party, "The Rent is Too Damn High!" Rise up Slowtwitch Nation!!!!!.....<yawn>

And "Challenge" events........

As much as I love IM and IM branded races, it's all just getting too hard. I will never qualify for Kona. I race to test myself and race in a beautiful location while I do my feeble best. WTC is just making it harder and harder for me to give them money. Unfortunately (for me) IM (branded) demand outstrips supply by a significant margin. WTC are really only doing what any of us in a similar business situation would do. Raise the prices until the demand dwindles to match the available supply.

Good business, bad Karma.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I took some time and created a new logo for WTC. Those wit tattoos can easily just add the addition.



FF

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To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

Is that image copyrighted yet? Can I take that image directly to my tattoo-ist? I've got some free time between meetings today and could be the first to get the latest M-$ (aka M-Dollar?) tat :-)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Pay to play. If you wanna do the distance, you can do it for free. If you want to do an WTC/Ironman branded race, pay to play. I've only been in the sport for 3 years, so I don't have a firm bias on the loyalty/tradition/heritage of "Ironman" racing. I understand the dynamics of the organization are changing, but it is still the same mileage, and still the same test of human endurance. Judging by the stupid fast sellouts, most people enjoy being a part of the big show that is IRONMAN. Some like popular music, some like indy music (who's the elitist?). Need I mention Nascar? That used to be a common man's sport (ok ok easy on the sport designation). The common man can still race . . . just not Nascar and perhaps not Ironman, unless you can pay to play.

I understand the nostalgic fear of a failure of the organization. Triathlon isn't going away. It would only be a failure of the brand. So is your criticism also a clue to your love of the brand identity disguised as a love of the race?

To be honest (it is a forum, and thus just an opinion) we newcomers (ok just me) get turned off by the "it ain't what it used to be" or "barefoot in the snow uphill bothways" crowd. The sport is in a corporate evolution, and we get the privilege of determining it's direction with our dollars.

I'll probably pony up the $1000 for the convenience. So I guess I'm voting with my dollars. Is the value there? Value is relative (read the bike threads). Disclaimer on my judgement . . . I voted for Obama (actually voted against any Palin ticket).

Let me say this: What if it doesnt reduce the entries for the "average triathlete" but does affect the quality of race. How?

One of the perks to the WTC races is that we average triathletes (im using that term instead of regular folks because of the discussion that caused) is that we get to race against pros, people we've heard of. Sure were not really racing them, but we see them, and many are kind enough to stick around and talk to some of us folks.

Now, when they need time away but have to stay at the race venue for sponsorship or other duties, they go hide in the VIP area. So what are they gonna do when the VIP area is full of the "elite douches" who paid their $1k to pre-register? Theyre going to renegotiate how much time they have to spend onsite outside of racing, thats what.

Between that and the way the points system will force the pros who havent won Kona in the past 5 years towards the biggest IMs, many of the reasons to race WTC will go away. And that same points system will cause many pros to think twice before doing Rev3 or other competition, if theyre only looking for 1 IM a year outside Kona.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

Fortunately, Ironman Canada is still run by Graham Fraser's lot that was previously known as "NA Sports".
These were the days I remember fondly as well......
I plan on going there in 2012, because although they have the permission from WTC to use the "Ironman" branding, it is still run independantly of the WTC in terms of full race organization.

I will do Ironman Florida this year, and then it is off to the Cedar Point Rev3 for this grrl..... ;-)

Good luck to everyone that still has iron distance races coming up this year.... :-)

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"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...It's about learning to dance in the rain."

Third Ironman = Ironman Florida in 2010

Will this mean more prize money for the PROs? Probably not!

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http://www.fuelforendurance.com

Just another way to stick it to the people that have the desire but not the $

At some point, maybe, but only if the pros are willing to eschew the idea of Kona. If they complain about the prize money, WTC may just tell them to go somewhere else, as the lower end pros will be glad to be rid of the top tier pros as a shot at the big time.

It would have to involve some sort of union of the professionals, which eventually is not that far fetched.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

Yeah,everyone is very quick to give WTC the credit for expanding the sport when in fact Graham deserves almost all of the credit for the healthy position the Ironman series in the US is in right now.

The new owners of WTC are just reaping the rewards of the work North America Sports and Graham in particular have done since 1994.

WTC sucks dogs balls!!

.

^^^^^^
True Dat!

I understand he/they were told to either sell their races or the licence for the Ironman branding would not be renewed!

I miss Graham Fraser and the previous NA Sports world of Ironman racing!!! He used to come down and mingle personally with us athletes at 7am at waterfront while we practiced on OW... Showed up in IMLP registration lines one year to thanks all the volunteers at 6am... Great man!

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"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...It's about learning to dance in the rain."

Third Ironman = Ironman Florida in 2010

These look so cool at business meetings.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Amen to that. Most confuse that the WTC is now owned by the WEH, basically a bunch of hedge funders

I am actually disappointed. The WEH are a bunch of softies if you ask me... They really should have gone for the Killshot with their Access Program by this one little benefit...

Exclusive "Access Only Toilets" - To better serve our VIPs who have stepped up to the plate, and forked over the bucks, we are converting 90% of the toilets in the transition areas to "Access-Only" toilets. This will provide exclusive access and shorter lines to our VIP members. We still will have one or two regular toilets for Non-Access athletes.

Also... Toilets on the course will now be "Pay" toilets. It is the responsibility of athletes to bring quarters with them to use these facilities, and remember that urinating on the course will result in a DQ. For our Access members we will have staff outside the Porta Potties to verify your Access membership and they will provide quarters for you to use these facilities.

Swim 2.4 miles, bike 112 miles, run 26.2 miles, brag for the rest of your life about how much money you spent!

Graham did the race series in Ontario Canada years ago. LePages, Presidents Choice (that's when I did it) and Subaru. Not sure what it is now. I think his brother might run that series now.

Fantastic series, and great that he moved on/up to IM/WTC. He puts on fantastic events. I suspect it's not him driving the curent money grab. Back in the day, he was very competitor focussed. He is one of the good guys in our sport.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Oh yeah... And I forgot a couple of the other benefits...

Priority Wave start on the Swim... Yes.. You guessed it... Access members get to start right after the Pros while the rest of the cattle, I mean athletes go to the back.

Priority Transition spots... Access members will get larger and primo transition spots, while standard athletes gets tucked in the back.

And lastly... For those resisters who don't want to become Access members... WTC will be adding a $200 processing fee to all WTC events. This processing fee is waived for Access members.

That is ALMOST funny

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Not new: Competitor offers that at their R'n'R Walkathons.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

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I have a lot of time for Graham as a businessman and what he did back in the day for the development of Ironman in Nth America.He has always been good to me even though I was a freeloading pain in the ass a most of the time.

.

.

The Ironman Facebook comments are running about the same as here.

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Train safe & smart
Bob

Yes.... It's his brother, Mitch, and his awesome wife, Janet.
They are just as nice and I am very loyal to their well run series, The Subaru Triathlon Series.

Graham Fraser has NOTHING to do with this! He still runs Ironman Canada but that is all. He was forced to "sell" his races or not has the Ironman logo attached to it anymore. He was basically between a rock and a hard place. Now he is seeing what is crumbling around years of his dedication.

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"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...It's about learning to dance in the rain."

Third Ironman = Ironman Florida in 2010

From one of the posts a while back:

"If I were IM, I would look at the percentage of the "Annual IM Price-Tag" which I am collecting. Right now, I bet that is around 10%, maybe 20%. Travel, lodging, training food, bikes, equipment, clothes, etc. IM is just trying to push the envelope to see if it can capture a larger percentage. "

This is very observant. I wonder why they don't sell an all inclusive package, at least for race day, that includes airfare, bike transport or bike rental from a fleet of bikes, hotel, some meals. They could negotiate the whole thing and buy in bulk from the hotels and airlines at discount, and sell at premium.

Surprised that since there is an ironman massage table, inversion thing, mattress, sauna, and apparently flash drives, that they don't make an ironman bike....do they?

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Get Set Go Sports
Get Set Go Sports Website, Facebook Page, Blog

Mr. Fraser has done a great job in all the years I raced IMC. 2003 the year of the big fires, he and his crew busted ass to pull off a great race. New swim course, new run course all on about a days notice. Firemen who did swim safety pulling all nighters fighting fires and being on the swim course. This is the kind of thing that makes IMC more than just the usual race. WTC is slowly wiping the "personality" of the races away.

Well done to Mitch.

Well done to Graham for building the IM sport and Brand. Bummer to hear he only has IMC left.

A great guy like him won't be held down for long. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with next.

(The presidents choice series had the BEST post race food. I will never forget the famed "burger toss" at the awards at Guelph Lake one year. Me and my kids managed to snag an entire summer's worth of the Presidents Choice, memories of Kobe, frozen burger patties! LOL I still have 2 of the PC tee shirts in my drawer that I only bring out on special ocassions, ie posing at IMNZ :-))

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Yeah,everyone is very quick to give WTC the credit for expanding the sport when in fact Graham deserves almost all of the credit for the healthy position the Ironman series in the US is in right now.

The new owners of WTC are just reaping the rewards of the work North America Sports and Graham in particular have done since 1994.

Nick,

All true!

I have to laugh. It was not too long ago that right here this forum that Graham was routinely getting called out for being, . . .wait for it . . "Too corporate"!

Well, now folks are starting to learn the good and no so good of what being Corporate really is for Ironman!! :-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

This is their most recent endeavor: http://www.centurioncycling.com/

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"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...It's about learning to dance in the rain."

Third Ironman = Ironman Florida in 2010

$1000.00. Wow. Speechless.......

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Use my name, randydial, in the promo/VIP code for 40% off @ http://www.e-rudy.com

A family friend used to consult with companies during an acquisition/merger. He would look at the intagible aspects of the company that was being acquired.
He would interview customers to get a "feel" for how the company was perceived in the market place.
He would walk around the offices to see the attitudes of the employees.
Of course the acquiring company would comb over the financials to make sure everything was in order.
The famliy friend would write a very detailed analysis (he had done this for years and had a formula for successful companies based on observed metrics). His reports were the final straw of due dilligence and many acquisitions did not happen because of his findings.
I wonder if Providence has thought about this aspect of their business.

They will probably sell out, but $1000 for a gimmick seems a bit steep. If we all had that kind of business model, we would milk it too... Good luck to them!

hehehe.

I used to do the old Collingwood Half Ironman back in the day, in the same area as the Centurion ride. Back then I used to think the hills were huge and the road was rough. Too rough for tris that was for sure.

Now I live in NZ and would love to ride a course that easy! Funny how times change. Like people used to give Graham a hard time for being Mr Corporate WTC. Now he smells like roses!

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Are you kidding or is this info legit? I would hope your making this up, but nothing surprises me anymore with these guys. Its getting ridiculous. A $200 processing fee is coming? I can't imagine these races selling out, if they jump up to this kind of expense. IF they do, it will certainly be a much different demographic of people making up the field, than it has been. Its almost sickening to see what they are trying to do with the sport. It used to be about the achievement, and the event, but with this 'special treatment' for a big $, it takes away from that (IMO). As a business, I know it seems great for them, but as sport to be proud of participating in, I don't think it helps at all.

Actually, there's a bit of truth in here. I'm surprised at how little they do in both the overall packaging, as well as itemization front. There are so many things they could offer as add-ons that many reasonable folks might actually pay for. Little things, like fully integrated bike shipping - or shuttles from the airport (to save on car rental), or all the other items you mentioned.

In the airline industry 'debundling' - or basically offering everything alacart is the rage these days...and for good reason - it makes a crapload of money.

There's a lot of things WTC could do to provide value to it's athletes (as well as making a profit). I'd love to see something akin to the Pro Registration program for AG'ers, not on the 140.6 side, but on the 70.3 side. A flat-rate fee to enter as many races as you can eat.

Of course, I think the escalating competition between WTC and Rev3 will only drive some of this.

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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com

Funny, I was trying to figure out if he was joking as well. The sad part is that there is really no telling with these folks. Regarding the demographic, I think that ship sailed a long time ago.

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Jonathan
USA Triathlon Coach/Adventure Extraordinaire

WTC doesnt see Rev3 as anything more than a regional competitor. They have a long way to go before they really cut into WTCs business, and frankly, WTC has mostly insured the pros will stay with them with the new points plan. So long as Kona stays the top prize, and you have to earn the points to get there, WTC has the top pros basically locked up. Next years Rev3 will mostly have second tier folks. Whats interesting is if you win Kona, you can afford to go play somewhere else most fo the time, becauee you have to do one WTC IM to prove you get to go back for each of the next five years.

Im assuming the grandfathered in the previous 5 years winners at Kona so Chrissie, Crowie, Macca, et al can mostly do what they want for now, but in 5 years time, dont be surprised if what we see is all the top pros racing all the big points events and most races having little or maybe perhaps even no pro field. 500 points in august at Timberman just isnt worth it if you have a shot at 1500 at Euro champs.

In fact my guess is you'll see late pro entries at races like timberman by people who have bad days at the big races and they'll come in unprepared, and wind up injured in their quest for Kona.

It all smells of very bad things to come.

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You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

And if you want to run a for-profit business, pay your employees.

We had a thread a few weeks ago about the legitimacy of a for-profit business using volunteer labor. It appears that WTC has some scheme set up to do an end-run around the general rule that for-profit businesses cannot use volunteers. IMO, it wasn't clear whether this scheme was legitimate, but it's apparently a business risk WTC is willing to take.

But legitimate or not, I suspect potential volunteers are going to be more likely to think twice about volunteering for a company that appears to be primarily, if not solely, interested in maximizing short term profits.

And even those volunteers who looked past WTC and idealistically imagined that they were really volunteering to help out the athletes may no longer do so when a larger and larger percentage of the athlete pool consists of wealthy doctors, lawyers, etc., out to indulge in what is really an expensive hobby.

The thing is, the people who actually have an extra $1000 to spend on this type of thing are likely going to be men age 35-55ish... so those age groups get huge at the popular ironman events and therefore end up with even more Kona spots than they already have... essentially screwing the younger age groups and some women who maybe just don't have the disposable income.

It'll be interesting to watch how this pans out. With all the negative hype coming from so many athletes, it may be that the special laminated IM membership card isn't quite so shiny. We can hope.

Spend $5,000 on Ironman merchandise and it pays for itself.

It feels like yesterday. Was there no truth to it at all?

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Are you aware how many people have said that in the 90s? Go figure.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Every time you try to give that corporation the benefit of the doubt they do something that just turns you off completely. I would not mind as much, but they are knocking the little guy out of business and they are ruining the culture of triathlon.

And even those volunteers who looked past WTC and idealistically imagined that they were really volunteering to help out the athletes may no longer do so when a larger and larger percentage of the athlete pool consists of wealthy doctors, lawyers, etc., out to indulge in what is really an expensive hobby.

Alan,

It's an interesting point, isn't it. Thousands and thousands of people enthusiastically volunteering for these events every year, yet many genuine non-profit organizations are absolutely desperate for volunteer help! Not saying it's wrong, it's just rather interesting. To the WTC's credit, that have generated significant charitable dollar amounts, in the $millions over the last 10 years through the Janus Charity Challenge.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Was there no truth to it at all?

Uli,

No there was not. Graham took the template from Ironman Canada* (his first IM race that he ran) and then started to apply that to the other venues around North America that he set up. Everything that he did was focused on the best possible experience on race day and throughout IM race week for the athlete. He knew that more and more people wanted to take on the challenge of doing and racing an Ironman, so he continued to seek more and other venues for the various IM events around North America, so that more people could do the races.

Early on there were HUGE risks involved. Today, people think it's a slam-dunk, but back in the late 90's and early '00's triathlon was no where nearly as popular. Sponsors much harder to find. Volunteers, more reluctant to give up a whole day of time. Local authorities, more resistant to road closures . . and so on.

* Today, it's hard to believe this, but when Graham bought Ironman Canada from the old Ironman Canada Race Society in '96, the race was loosing large amounts of money every year. Unknown to many, on two occasions, in the previous few years the race was nearly canceled( one year actually during race week, with everyone there!) because the ICRS, was broke!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Steve, in fairness, the athletes raise the money and Janus makes some contribution. I don't believe that WTC has raised anything through the Janus charity challenge (although I could be wrong). WTC has "raised" money through the IM community fund.

I think we are all welcome to spend are money at Challenge Series races, Independent Ironmans and Rev3. Personally I don't like the $1000 to "get to the front of the line" and should not reward people who work more in the office and train less....it should "ideally" reward those who train more/better/more intelligently.

IM, in an ideal world should be an athletic event, so let's have more qualifer slots for the events (make RD's pay to have those slots) and in line with "getting to the front of the line" let guys and girls qualify a full year ahead of the event (just like advance registration is a full year ahead). I believe the amount of money generated could be reasonably high, if not equal the $1000xN, while at the same time preserving the events as athletic competitions first rather than making it a club for those who have more disposable income (to be clear, none of the options penalize me....I live close enough to an IM to go volunteer and sign up, or I could pay the $1000 if I really wanted to or I train enough to have a shot at qualifying, so I'm trying to view this from a purely objective perspective)

Steve, in fairness, the athletes raise the money and Janus makes some contribution. I don't believe that WTC has raised anything through the Janus charity challenge (although I could be wrong). WTC has "raised" money through the IM community fund.

Agreed - but the event is the catalyst and the vector to raise the money. I don't see people just automatically writing cheques for those charities. Event based charitable fund raising whether you like it or not has become a significant area of fund raising for various non-profit charities in the past 15 or so years.

I think we are all welcome to spend are money at Challenge Series races, Independent Ironmans and Rev3. Personally I don't like the $1000 to "get to the front of the line" and should not reward people who work more in the office and train less....it should "ideally" reward those who train more/better/more intelligently.

I find it odd that what this really is, an affinity program is getting ripped so badly here and elsewhere. These sorts of opt-in, buy-in, affinity programs are run in all kinds of other businesses and no one bats an eye. Personally, the affinity program, I would have liked to have seen would have been some form of points or $$ discount for multiple IM finishers - reward the people/customers who have consumed the most product. Something that the WTC or no individual IM race has ever done. I was thinking about this when they did the last-person-standing thing at IMC this year, on who had done the most IMC races and the three guys who had done every IMC race save the first year( that's 27 IMC's in a row) were the last standing. My guess is that they have paid full-pop every year, for IMC!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Why are people so surprised and incensed by this?

Look around at other popular sports...take college football for instance...alumni pay very large sums of money to be able to buy expensive seats at full price. The more they pay, the closer they park, and the closer they sit. All this to watch a bunch of kids who can barely read and write tote a football, under the guidance of some of the most exorbitantly overpaid employees in the history of the world, and amidst a constant background of illegal payments and recruiting...what's the point of it all?

At least in this case, those who pay, while receiving very little in return for their 1k other than VIP ego boost, do actually participate in the sport...and there isn't an underlying environment of deceit and fraud...at least I don't think there is. And at least they get free drinks at the finish line rather than going to the concession stand and paying $6.50 for a watered down Pepsi...

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

I know people with WAY more money than me, who race Ironman casually, and who will definitely be buying this. They couldn't care less how much entrance fees cost, but it is a major PITA having to fly out to the race site just to stand in line and register. True story.

If they had any brains at all, they would somehow include a parking pass at the race site, as well as VIP body marking and separate porta potties...

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

Also... Toilets on the course will now be "Pay" toilets. It is the responsibility of athletes to bring quarters with them to use these facilities, and remember that urinating on the course will result in a DQ. For our Access members we will have staff outside the Porta Potties to verify your Access membership and they will provide quarters for you to use these facilities.[/reply]

Is Michael O'Leary (Ryan Air) on the WTC board?

At least we still have Slowtwitch... for free... right Dan?

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Jay

I think this quote supports some of my earlier posts better than I could

Let's not forget that you can also gain entry by purchasing a training program/entry through Multisports.com.

I can see where this move by WTC will make it more difficult to get into certain races that sell out quickly (IM Florida for example), at least for those that don't have $1,000 in disposable income to join the exclusive club or live near enough to travel and volunteer affordably. I am not a fan of this move by WTC. If this really takes off, I think it could have the effect of excluding triathletes with moderate incomes from participating in IM logo events. At IM Wisconsin they published some statistics in the race program. One of the statistics was the average income of IM participants, which I believe was over $200,000/year. Maybe these are the triathletes WTC wants at their events since they will have more disposable income to spend on merchandise.

For those aspiring to reach the hallowed ground of Kona, it is an expensive journey. That journey may have become a little more exclusive. This is great for the WTC profit margin (if it takes off), but maybe not so great for the sport as whole.

I'm a bit amused that a lot of my tri friends on FB are all of a sudden professing their interest in Rev3 after this lovely WTC bit of capitalism. Who's to say Rev3 isn't going to go down the same path that Ironman/WTC did over the years? They may want blackouts around their races. I'm not so sure they're going to be the angel to complement WTC's devil.

I hope the independent races will really get some love now....Beach to Battleship, Great Floridian, Vineman, etc.

Maybe WTC has a mole in their organization who really works for Rev3....and proposed this idea to get everyone to flip. haha!

I've got one more IM lined up. I have been on the verge of 'retiring' for a while, and hope I have a good race to potentially end on. You certainly won't see me paying extra for the privilege of signing up early. If I choose to do another one and can't get in...so be it. Or take the tax deduction with community fund.

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I'll be participating on the "hallowed ground" of Kona in a month but at the Ultraman Worlds instead.I'm a late entry and less than a day after finding out that I wanted to do the race the Race Director had found me a host family,crew,a paddler,a rental van and asked when my flight arrived so she can get someone to pick me up....

..and people wonder why I do Ultra triathlons. I must be mad.

.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_113239068739298

I was being a little more facetious / tongue and cheek, but I can see the fees coming.

WTC is going after the money, and they will do EVERYTHING in their power to increase their take because they are in the PUMP phase of a "Pump and Dump" That is what acquisition firms like Providence do.

The first phase is to try and hit the upscale market by selling privilege at a high cost. In short, test the market to see if folks will be willing to pony up a grand to "cut the line". Also note as part of their carrot and stick, they are giving these people an extra Kona Entry...

This is the "carrot" part.

The stick part always follows, and while they are currently providing positive incentives for more cash, the flip side that follows is to punish those who don't pony up.

What is hidden in this again is the "lock in" not only the pros, but the regular athletes into doing ONLY WEH/WTC events. The goal here is to get a larger number of people to lock in the $1000 fees, and then make them mentally justify the cost by doing more WEH/WTC races to justify the expenditure in their head. You do 1 race, and $1000 seems like a lot... You do 5, and it is only $200 extra each race.

The other thing you have to realize, WEH could not give a flying crap about the athletes. They see market demand right now, and they will push it to maximize profits... This is not about where the sport will be in 10 or 20 years, but where they can build it to in the next 3 before the sell.

Processing Fees are also a way for them to "Hide" the cost increases. They will justify it by saying it "Costs" more money to register non-Access Members because they already have standardized Access Member info handy.

Now maybe it will not be $200, but I can DEFINITELY see "new" processing fees coming in the future for non-access members. That is just the way the game is played, just the way if you pay the $1000 you now have a better chance at the Kona lottery than if you didn't.

Again... The not-so-subtle thing in this type of program is to get people to lock in to get a better shot at Kona and avoid the lines at a race they want, and at the same time make them then have a preference to ONLY their series of races by having them justify a financial commitment.

This program is as much about keeping people away from Rev3 and other up and coming or long standing independent venues as it is a money grab.

For those aspiring to reach the hallowed ground of Kona, it is an expensive journey. That journey may have become a little more exclusive.

I don't know why this is all so suddenly surprising to people. Back in the early years of IMH, other than the top Pros, a lot of the race field was made up of Doctors, Lawyers, other professionals, and business owners - the classic Type- A types. There is really nothing new here at all.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Not sure which previous post you are referring to. I would offer these points in response to your comment about "elitist douche-bags":

1. My father was an English/Music teacher and made $3200/year when I was born

2. I went to Michigan State because it was the only school I could afford (the scholarship offer I received from MIT was insuffiecient)

3. I worked my ass off at MSU and at my first job as an engineer and when I was accepted at Harvard I had to borrow a significant multiple of what I had to go there.

4. I've worked very hard since and paid that loan off and raised 4 kids and have a wonderful marriage for 27 years.

5. I run a successful company that I spent 8 years turning around.

6. I've made enough money to enjoy a nice lifestyle and in particular be able to enjoy the great sport of triathlon.

7. I know that I am very lucky to be where I am. I worked very hard for it but I know I'm also lucky.

8. As a result of this I get to have things that others don't. I have a nice house and I go on nice vacations.

None of the above makes me an "elitist douchebag". I'd point out that just because someone is more or less successful does not impart any level of moral superiority. Just because I've enjoyed some success doesn't mean I have less of a right to enjoy myself in triathlon.

It does mean I have more disposable income to spend on this expensive sport. If the WTC prices some folks out of the market than that's what happens in a free market economy.

Anyone that is posting in this forum is already so vastly more wealthy (and lucky) than the majority of the people in the world--think about how unfair the WTC's pricing is to people living in shacks in Somalia--thing about that when you lament not being able to buy $3000 zipp wheels.

If you don't like WTC's pricing complain about it--it's your right and if it makes you feel better great!

If you'd like to be able to afford some things you currently can't then try working harder or smarter--maybe you'll get lucky too. Or maybe not--life is like that. Odds are nothing will happen unless you try.

But please get off your high horse and stop railing on people who can afford what the WTC charges (or Porsche or the Ritz) and are happy to do so. YOu'd do the same in a heartbeat if you could.

If I'm responding to the wrong post well than nevermind!

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Count me in on that group..I have no problem paying entry fees for events(almost 7k this year) it is the way that WTC is going about it's business that has turned me against them.I know they are the coolest thing in tri's here in Nth America but what they are doing overseas is plain bullshit.This latest development is just bloody stupid,not on their part but on the part of those who are buying into the whole M-Dot cult.

.

The straw that broke the camel's back ?
Where's the Ironman Spirit in there ??

Join our "Say to to Ironman $$$ Sport Business" group on FB to disagree !!
http://www.facebook.com/...39068739298&ap=1

CU

LoL
Gwen, j'ai mis le lien 4 messages plus haut…
;-)

The straw on my Camelback did break one time when it froze while I was riding at -5C.

.

"YOu'd do the same in a heartbeat if you could."

That's quite an assumption.

Sorry if this was posted in here already:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7478523/

SMC

Well Rev3 really started because they saw they shift in the WEH/WTC and wanted to do races that were more about the "Athlete" and family.

Lets see... Rev3 lets people cross with loved ones? WTC?

Could they change down the line? Maybe, but I doubt it. I have had the pleasure of meeting Todd, Heather, and Eric and know a lot of their views and what they are trying to do.

The thing to remember is what IRONMAN WAS, is not what IRONMAN IS any more. There is a clear distinction to me the folks that build up Ironman, and now the folks who OWN Ironman, which is a Financial / Hedge fund firm

Rev3 I do not see spiraling into the money grab unless they SELL OUT like Ironman has.

Hahahaha. I love Xtranormal..

.

Amen on that... And the FB group!

http://www.facebook.com/...78523%2F&h=0aa31
funny

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"injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" MLK

So am I the only one that thinks this is a whole bunch of drama about nothing? In the end I think only a handful of people will sign up for this and in two years we will have forgotten all about it. The rightious indignation around here has reached comical levels.

I did my first IM in 2000, it was very much a commercial endeavor then, and I'm glad it was. Most of the grass roots, non-profit races of the day are gone now. I look forward to bumping this thread in a year or two.

Thom

Via twitter, Luke McKenzie asks...

If WTC didn't own the Hawaii Ironman would everyone still race Ironman brand?

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"The hero is someone in continual opposition to the status quo. The hero is always becoming himself." Jos� Ortega y Gasset.

"The enthusiasm (absorbing or controlling possession of the mind by any interest or pursuit) is needed before breaking the milestone and not after." Sergio Escutia, on Lukas Verzbicas' subdued reaction to breaking 4 minutes in the mile.

Nope. This is the wave of things to come.

Ironman is now the property of a Bank/Hedge fund.

Hedge funds milk money.

As I stated... This is the carrot. Carrot always comes first. I don't expect the program to be a huge seller, but I do expect to see in the next year or two the "stick" side of things where non-Access members have to pay higher fees or penalties as the WTC tries to lock in not just to pros but other athletes.

In short, if you want the best experience, cough up the money.

They still have the logo and Mike Reilley but I think Kona is the real crown jewel.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

You are correct, this sport is loaded with Type A personalities. Most of us are successful and can afford to participate in IM events. For some of those same Type A people, IM is a big investment. Mr. Type A making $100,00/year with a wife and three kids is not necessarily free to spend money capriciously. The financial aspect of racing in an IM is still important to some Type A's. I think equating personality type and financial condition is not nearly as simple as you propose. There are many very driven people in this sport that are constrained by financial resources. Why make it harder for them?

Go Spartans!!!! Put a beating on Iowa this weekend.
Class of 1996

I've got IMTX lined up for next year, but I don't imagine I'll be going in for any more WTC events after that. There's a good slate of races here in Austin and next year High Five is adding a HIM out in Kerrville that can take the place of 70.3 Austin in my schedule.

I think it's hard for many to properly articulate why these moves by WTC bother them so much. I can't imagine anyone has a problem with race directors making a living, even a nice one. But the several RDs I've met are motivated far more by their passion for the sport, the desire to put on truly great races, than by some goal of getting rich doing it. That perception may be mistaken, but the actions of the RDs don't contradict it.

The moves by the WTC, though, obviously strike most as being driven by nothing but short-term profit. Are the changes good for the sport? Are they even good for the brand in the long run? Most don't think WTC care. Is that perception accurate? It's even harder to tell than with a local RD. But again, the actions don't contradict it.

Is maximizing profit completely within the rights of the WTC owners? Certainly. It doesn't mean that people that have volunteered, raced, and have an emotional investment in the race can't be pissed off about it. It doesn't mean that people can't complain about what they see as long-term damage to a brand that, in some ways, they were part of building.

Yes agreed---while not universally true for those on ST it's my belief that's it more true than not that most people would (if they "could")

1. buy a faster more expensive frame than a cheaper, slower frame

2. buy better more expensive running shoes than cheaper ones if they felt it would make them faster

3. buy better, faster wheels

4. go to better cooler races than crappier, cheaper ones

5. stay at nicer hotels and eat better food

6. wear nicer clothes...

etc

this not to say that there are really stupid expensive things to buy. And some people are against spending money generally (better to give it away).

What I am saying is that most people in ST are the types that would tend to spend money on things that make them better (faster) triathletes and enhance their enjoyment of the sport.

I'm not condemning anyone for it--I just think that people who put down others for spending money on triathlon things in this forum run the risk of being hypocritical...

Yeah sparty! class of 79--Magic was my man....

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Fair point.

But as I previously mentioned, the more exclusive IM becomes, the harder it may be for them to find the volunteers they need. What's the incentive to volunteer services that primarily (1) help WTC increase profits by reducing payroll expenses and (2) help make it more pleasurable for wealth elites to indulge in their expensive hobby.

I like the fcat that there is a big Rev 3 ad next to this thread on my screen.

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

I was curious and checked. The link went to Active.com where I learned that they sold out.

Mike Reiley is far down the list. Some people recognize his voice, but many do not care who says their name, in fact many participants probably do not even understand that someone said their name when they finished.

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-- Aaron Davidson

I am going to collate the folks that join on that group and then cross reference them against the participant lists for the MDot races. Any predictions on how many of them will be on both lists?

 (I would have liked to have seen would have been some form of points or $$ discount for multiple IM finishers - reward the people/customers who have consumed the most product. Something that the WTC or no individual IM race has ever done. I was thinking about this when they did the last-person-standing thing at IMC this year, on who had done the most IMC races and the three guys who had done every IMC race save the first year( that's 27 IMC's in a row) were the last standing. My guess is that they have paid full-pop every year, for IMC)

This year the GFT called out all previous champions for free entry in there 20th anv race last week. They also had giveaway entries into the event leading up which is how I got in, not that the entry is steep to begin with. People who want the feel of the old days should check it out. I feel like I knew every participants face buy the end of the race. NICE!

No one (beside that one guy) is saying anything against those who are foolish enough to pay this fee for the privelage of registering first. I think most of the anger is unfounded, or at least unwarranted and that most of it is coming from people that have never raced an IM or will never.

My issue with the fee is the value. I see no value in the added $1000. It really is not a VIP package, it is a sucker fee. I would gladly pay $1000 for an entry if I could choose at my leisure which race on the circuit I wanted to race next year.

People will pay the $1000 because they we will more special about themselves, but that is it (because without a special bib, no one else will know they are special). All the better for them. I just believe that the number of people that see value in the fee is not great, however WTC really does not lose anything by giving people the opportunity to pay more. You can already score 'vip' passes fairly easily.

What they should do is create a package similar to what the pro-entry package is. For unlimited racing, that would hurt competitors.

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-- Aaron Davidson

REGISTRATION
Sorry: Thank you for your interest in Ironman Access. The program is sold-out for 2011. For more information on Ironman events, please log on to http://www.ironman.com

either 1) lots of people liked it (likely) or 2) IM shut it down due to negativity (unlikely)

I think a lot of people are being too hard on WTC. If they really wanted to milk the Ironman cow they'd have a pricing scheme that goes something like:

From 14 months to 12 months before the race: $5000
Up to 10 months before the race: $4000
Up to 8 months before the race: $3000
Up to 6 months before the race: $2000
Up to 5 months before the race: $1500
Up to 4 months before the race: $1000
Less than 4 months before the race: $750

With the understanding that it may sell out at any time. No preferred pricing at any time for volunteers or people who just raced it. No cutting in line, first come first served online entries only.

And yet they don't do that because they're good corporate citizens and friends of the entire triathlon world.

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I joined that group but you won't find my name on an entrants list for an M-Dot race anytime soon.

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No, you're not the only one. The new program is kind of a community fund option but prior to the event opening for general entry. I know people who did the community fund thing in the past and not one of them did it our of some feeling to contribute to local charity, they did it because the race sold out and they wanted in.

The pattern?

- WTC starts some "evil program/idea"
- internet trigeeks all cry out that the sky is falling
- The same internet trigeeks vow to only race independent irons
- independent irons see no increase in participant numbers
- WTC still sells out races

I sit back, listen to devil music and laugh my ass off at all the whiners who vowed to take action but did zilcho... tough talk with no follow through.

That is your opinion that the anger is unfounded. While yes, it does not affect 99% of us who do IM, it is a display of arrogance to allow others to 'cut the line'. Everyone knows WTC is all about the money, but to come out and lay those cards on the table is arrogance. people don't like arrogance, or being told "Other people can cut the line because they have more money." Corporations can make make money, but do it in a way that is not so arrogant. WTC now has a perception problem, and they have to make amends, or risk damaging the brand. They did so with me, as I was intending on signing up for Lanzarote next year. I'm out. I vote with my wallet.

BTW, have raced 4 IMs, so your comment about people complaining that haven't done an IM is not true, and suggest that most that are against this have indeed done multiple IMs.

To say WTC does not lose anything is not correct. Perception matters more facts. That is not an opinion, that is the truth.

Well said. I've done 30+ Mdot races and 16 Mdot IMs. I can afford the $1000, but I'm not buying out of principle.

Uhm, yeah.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

Will you however continue to race Mdot races? I will. I will not however pay $1000 just for the right to pay more money. If you do choose to continue racing, then the program did not effect you, nor are you choosing to really make a decision, except a decision of inactivity to support your principle.

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-- Aaron Davidson