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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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I fully get that hydration and nutrition is individual. And we all have what works for us and going 17 without food isn’t really common (but should be so you train your body). I also don’t think anyone should really need food/water/electrolytes for almost any regular run up to 60-80 min, baring crazy hot conditions.

I am in Phoenix and in the summer sweat like a beast. I’ve gone thru 2L of water in 90-100 min at an easy pace (but no electrolytes). So hydration obviously has its place and we all know that.

But there is no way a body can utilize 48 oz of Gatorade in a 5k, especially when it is the winter for most of us. I’d be hurling all over worse than a beer mile.

speedySTATES
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
BT_DreamChaser wrote:
Yeah but the vast majority of runners need food to fuel a 17-mile run. Also us bigger athletes who sweat a lot need electrolytes; even for runs less than an hour at an EZ pace. So for me, fuel while running is very important especially in a challenge such as this where I'm running consecutive days, plus maintaining my cycling. You running 17-miles without eating is not the norm. But kudos for you.


Have a look at every elite marathon and what they take in during the first 17 miles. It is almost zero and even for more people running 2:45 and below they don't take in much during the first 18 miles (~2 hrs). In any case for someone well trained, no matter how hot, 90 min run on zero nutrition or hydration will be doable. It won't be optimal, but if the person is well fuelled before the run, 90 min at cruise pace should be in the realm of not leaving this runner cripple for the next day. I have done several 80ish minute runs during this 100/100 on nothing. And since 80-90 min is my long run, I never take anything on runs. For a 90 min bike or swim, I would also need nothing at all.

"Elite Marathoners" do not represent the vast majority of marathoners. When I run a marathon if I haven't fueled properly by 17 miles in, I'm hitting the wall at 20-22 miles. And as a 3:30 marathoner when I ran NYC, I still represented the pointy end of the field -- LOL! The Slowtwitch msg board advice lens is often skewed because it's the tip of the pointy end sharing their experience; which is not the same experience as the other 99%. 99.9% of marathoners are NOT running sub 2:45 and as such they're fueling needs will be much, much different :-)
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [fartleker] [ In reply to ]
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fartleker wrote:
I fully get that hydration and nutrition is individual. And we all have what works for us and going 17 without food isn’t really common (but should be so you train your body). I also don’t think anyone should really need food/water/electrolytes for almost any regular run up to 60-80 min, baring crazy hot conditions.

I am in Phoenix and in the summer sweat like a beast. I’ve gone thru 2L of water in 90-100 min at an easy pace (but no electrolytes). So hydration obviously has its place and we all know that.

But there is no way a body can utilize 48 oz of Gatorade in a 5k, especially when it is the winter for most of us. I’d be hurling all over worse than a beer mile.

100% Agree on the 48oz of Gatorade in a 5k. But for me, I wear a t-shirt and still have a high sweat rate running in 32 degree temps. Crazy, I know. If I don't hydrate properly for a 50' run I'll end up with a dehydration headache. It sucks, but is what it is.

And again, it's tough to use elite athletes and hardcore Slowtwitchers as the bar for what is normal in training. Example: I've run 10k everyday for 37 days of this challenge and I'm barely hanging on to the top 100 by 2 spots. Craziness I say!! :-)
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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I celebrated 50 yesterday (started on 2 November). I had planned to go for a long run but ended up with a crazy workday with eleven hours in front of the computer and on the phone trying to get urgent things done, with two elementary school kids in the house enjoying their first day of the Christmas school break (which wasn’t supposed to start until tomorrow, but schools decided to close earlier due to the coronavirus)... So I was quite happy with making a 5 km run after the kids had gone to bed.
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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BT_DreamChaser wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
BT_DreamChaser wrote:
Yeah but the vast majority of runners need food to fuel a 17-mile run. Also us bigger athletes who sweat a lot need electrolytes; even for runs less than an hour at an EZ pace. So for me, fuel while running is very important especially in a challenge such as this where I'm running consecutive days, plus maintaining my cycling. You running 17-miles without eating is not the norm. But kudos for you.


Have a look at every elite marathon and what they take in during the first 17 miles. It is almost zero and even for more people running 2:45 and below they don't take in much during the first 18 miles (~2 hrs). In any case for someone well trained, no matter how hot, 90 min run on zero nutrition or hydration will be doable. It won't be optimal, but if the person is well fuelled before the run, 90 min at cruise pace should be in the realm of not leaving this runner cripple for the next day. I have done several 80ish minute runs during this 100/100 on nothing. And since 80-90 min is my long run, I never take anything on runs. For a 90 min bike or swim, I would also need nothing at all.


"Elite Marathoners" do not represent the vast majority of marathoners. When I run a marathon if I haven't fueled properly by 17 miles in, I'm hitting the wall at 20-22 miles. And as a 3:30 marathoner when I ran NYC, I still represented the pointy end of the field -- LOL! The Slowtwitch msg board advice lens is often skewed because it's the tip of the pointy end sharing their experience; which is not the same experience as the other 99%. 99.9% of marathoners are NOT running sub 2:45 and as such they're fueling needs will be much, much different :-)

Hey I have the 2:45 marathoner as an example of someone who is 45 min slower than elites. This person hits 30km in around 2 hrs. So lets just focus on a 2 hrs run for a 3:30 marathoner. Anyone who runs a 3:30 marathon can do any run in temperate condtions foor 2 hrs on almost nothing. It is better with something, but 90 min on nothing will be easy for the 3:30 marathoner. As a related example anyone who has gone on a 3 hrs XC and had their bottle freeze during the first 30 min also can attest too how often you can survive 3 hrs workouts on almost nothing and often with a sweat rate higher than running.

I totally agree that it is better to do longer workouts with some hydration, but its all swung totally the other way (I blame my buddy Vinu who started fuel belt) where people think then need hydration belts for 20-45 minute jogs. Its not neccessary. Drinking just slows us down and shunts blood flow to the wrong place. When we go for longer runs, we make the trade off that we need to move blood to the stomach to digest to invent in later stages of race performance.
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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BT_DreamChaser wrote:
Yeah but the vast majority of runners need food to fuel a 17-mile run. Also us bigger athletes who sweat a lot need electrolytes; even for runs less than an hour at an EZ pace. So for me, fuel while running is very important especially in a challenge such as this where I'm running consecutive days, plus maintaining my cycling. You running 17-miles without eating is not the norm. But kudos for you.

since most races are in morning... your dinner should provide you enough fuel for 2 hours (typical human glycogen store capacity) . hydration is a different story for all. So gatorade which has sugar, useless being taken during a flat 5k, by the time it digests for use as fuel - the race is over

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [fartleker] [ In reply to ]
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Fartleker you deserve props for some very solid running and resisting the temptation to "chase the count" like some are doing. I remember doing this challenge in 2008/2009 when I was ramping up for my first Boston. I was consistently doing around 130k each week usually with 2 double run days. Back then I was in the top 2 or 3 on the list for number of runs and distance pretty much the entire challenge. Now I am in the 40s for quantity but near the top 10-12 for distance (I am getting old so I am just trying to average 90k or so a week and stay injury free). After 42 years of competitive running and close to 30 as a run coach it pains me to see people running 4.8km on their treadmill 5 times a day. The point of this challenge was originally to get some run consistency in the off season and not to sabotage your training by doing silly stuff. I get it that most on this group are type AAA folks and that seeing the count really go up is like crack cocaine ... trust me, I get it ... I saw a 30 day 100 pushup a day challenge that I thought I would do back in April and today is day 258 so I am about as obsessive-compulsive as they get ... but I would recommend that those that are cranking out 3 a days be really careful over the final 9 weeks of this challenge or you risk messing up your preparation for what, hopefully, will be a full slate of races next summer.

Also, along with what others have said, there is no need to drink anything on a run unless you are going at least 90 minutes in hot weather.
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for that. I think I’m doing it the easy way compared to 3-4 runs a day. My schedule is pretty crazy and it is a lot easier getting up earlier for one run than suiting up multiple times. Adding 2 miles is just setting the alarm clock 15 min earlier. And I just don’t have the time between work, kids, and virtual school. But even so, I’m a pure runner now training for true running races so this is also what is best. I’m expecting to build up the mileage even more on just singles (maybe one double) but shall see.

Anyone who is logging miles deserves props, especially if it pushes you to the next level.

speedySTATES
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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Allan wrote:
Fartleker you deserve props for some very solid running and resisting the temptation to "chase the count" like some are doing. I remember doing this challenge in 2008/2009 when I was ramping up for my first Boston. I was consistently doing around 130k each week usually with 2 double run days. Back then I was in the top 2 or 3 on the list for number of runs and distance pretty much the entire challenge. Now I am in the 40s for quantity but near the top 10-12 for distance (I am getting old so I am just trying to average 90k or so a week and stay injury free). After 42 years of competitive running and close to 30 as a run coach it pains me to see people running 4.8km on their treadmill 5 times a day. The point of this challenge was originally to get some run consistency in the off season and not to sabotage your training by doing silly stuff. I get it that most on this group are type AAA folks and that seeing the count really go up is like crack cocaine ... trust me, I get it ... I saw a 30 day 100 pushup a day challenge that I thought I would do back in April and today is day 258 so I am about as obsessive-compulsive as they get ... but I would recommend that those that are cranking out 3 a days be really careful over the final 9 weeks of this challenge or you risk messing up your preparation for what, hopefully, will be a full slate of races next summer.

Also, along with what others have said, there is no need to drink anything on a run unless you are going at least 90 minutes in hot weather.

Thanks for adding this post of sanity. You and I are definitely the poster children of obsessive compulsive (and we're still standing doing this shit 40ish years later) and when we think people are doing stupid shit that takes a lot to cross our stupid threshold!!!

Hey I invented 100/100...I created the original rules when I realized my version (10km+ per day every day for 1000 days no days off no doubles to get to 1000km was not inclusive enough to get more people in....so I created the 30 minute min minimum, allowed for doubles, allowed for days off with essentially the goal of getting people to jack up their overall mileage through frequency. Frequency was a means to get people out the door. But like you said, you are running 90km per week and when you trained for Boston you were running 130km per week. I am running 70km per week (averaging 10km per day again).

During the first quarter of lockdown in March-May I ran 1000km in 12 weeks (83km per day). I never ran more than once per day, and often ran 15-16km. I never ran more than that, but every 3 weeks I had a full day off. But I got to 1000km faster than my original 100/100 (83 days vs 100 days). But during that time, I was doing zero swimming. I was just running and biking. I find it easier to run more when I just run and bike. The moment I add in swimming, my legs are toast for running (but my version of adding in swimming is 20km--30km per week),

On 26 Dec I loose the pool for 28 days for our local lockdown, so its just running, and some roller rides. If and when we get snow, I'll add in XC skiing (in which case my running volume will go down). But if not, my running will be higher, but as I won't have runs to the pool and back, I'll more than likely only do 1x. I only do 2x if there is a utilitarian reason (like commuting by running, or because my work schedule means I can't carve out a 90 min time block to run for 80 min....and it is almost never that I don't book at least 2 hrs to exercise. It take a lot (such as overseas flight schedules or marathon biz meetings with customer after customer after customer.....but there is always training 2 hrs early morning or late night).
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:

Have a look at every elite marathon and what they take in during the first 17 miles. It is almost zero


Yeah and someone like Kipchoge weighs 115 pounds and is built like a twig. Dude probability just needs 2 sunflower seeds to fuel 26.2.

I’m around 190lbs and when I heat up my engine - I get hot and I sweat hard at threshold. Maybe I don’t need it all - I only used 24oz earlier today.

Cheers

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
Last edited by: plant_based: Dec 24, 20 19:11
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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plant_based wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:

Have a look at every elite marathon and what they take in during the first 17 miles. It is almost zero


Yeah and someone like Kipchoge weighs 115 pounds and is built like a twig. Dude probability just needs 2 sunflower seeds to fuel 26.2.

I’m around 190lbs and when I heat up my engine - I get hot and I sweat hard at threshold. Maybe I don’t need it all - I only used 24oz earlier today.

Cheers

and look at nick bare's latest video of him doing a 20 miler. he weighs as much as you and shooting for sub 3 marathon.

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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I did a marathon on Monday. 24.5 miles on Zwift. Rest in snowbanks. 4:17. That was day, I think, 47 for me, as I started the challenge early. Recovering quickly. Hill repeats on Thursday. Flat and fastish. Today.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
and look at nick bare's latest video of him doing a 20 miler. he weighs as much as you and shooting for sub 3 marathon.

I was shooting for a sub 3 marathon in March but it was cancelled due to Covid. Goal was 6:45 pace for a 2:57.

We are about the same weight, but I’m taller and he definitely has more muscle to carry.

My plan was to wear a Camelbak and hit up the water stations.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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congratulations to triordie1994-first to 100!!

kudos!



day 42 and I'm happy to be ON PACE, despite some twists (*I know we all have life happening...)
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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plant_based wrote:
synthetic wrote:
and look at nick bare's latest video of him doing a 20 miler. he weighs as much as you and shooting for sub 3 marathon.

I was shooting for a sub 3 marathon in March but it was cancelled due to Covid. Goal was 6:45 pace for a 2:57.

We are about the same weight, but I’m taller and he definitely has more muscle to carry.

My plan was to wear a Camelbak and hit up the water stations.

Major cause of death of people in marathons, heart failure from Hyponatremia

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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I kind of rolled my ankle on a deep crack in the pavement obsured by some light snow yesterday, but it was one of those were I kept running with no change in pace. No swelling nor pain afterwards (I have rolled this ankle probably 1000x since being a kid, so its loose and floppy). So I think it should be OK. I am still on my 10km per day average. If I can keep this up, it gets me 1000km by the end. With swimming shut down this should be easier as long as no damage from yesterday's twist. I am back on the rollers for my second workout of the day and run moves up to primary workout status (before swim was primary workout)
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Please explain what determines my (don't look its super slow, but moving nontheless) PACE? On the leaderboard, my pace is about a full minute slower than what I think it should be AND slower than all my STRAVA activity average pace (from whince the Challenge data derives) . Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [andreakayms] [ In reply to ]
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andreakayms wrote:
Please explain what determines my (don't look its super slow, but moving nontheless) PACE? On the leaderboard, my pace is about a full minute slower than what I think it should be AND slower than all my STRAVA activity average pace (from whince the Challenge data derives) . Thanks for the explanation.

i'll let eric answer this. i haven't mathed it out, but i think it gets my pace about right. but maybe i'm not paying enough attention to know.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Traveling to Utah skiing. Hit Bryce canyon today. Would love to share pics but on phone cannot size down for ST uploader. Pic I wanted to show is my fingers purple holding my glove, where snot turned to ice. Yea got a bit of frost bite, 10* starting 45min before sunrise. I did 10miles, wife caved in for 2. Maybe she made the smarter move

http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I kind of rolled my ankle on a deep crack in the pavement obsured by some light snow yesterday, but it was one of those were I kept running with no change in pace. No swelling nor pain afterwards (I have rolled this ankle probably 1000x since being a kid, so its loose and floppy). So I think it should be OK. I am still on my 10km per day average. If I can keep this up, it gets me 1000km by the end. With swimming shut down this should be easier as long as no damage from yesterday's twist. I am back on the rollers for my second workout of the day and run moves up to primary workout status (before swim was primary workout)

I do hope you heal up quickly and can be back in the water where you are happiest (lately).

StaffanS wrote:
I celebrated 50 yesterday (started on 2 November). I had planned to go for a long run but ended up with a crazy workday with eleven hours in front of the computer and on the phone trying to get urgent things done, with two elementary school kids in the house enjoying their first day of the Christmas school break (which wasn’t supposed to start until tomorrow, but schools decided to close earlier due to the coronavirus)... So I was quite happy with making a 5 km run after the kids had gone to bed.

Happy belated birthday Staffan!

synthetic wrote:
I was hit buy a car yesterday on bike. it was slippery from the rain we both slid when hitting the brakes. my tailbone is very bruised from landing on windshield and cracking it, seems not broken. it hurts to sit in a chair or lift my right leg very high. so I am going to have to avoid speed work, i am so thankful just to be able to jog this could have been worse

so didnt run this morning, but decided to see if I am ok on grass jog of 30 min. hit 48 min with some touch of the road, so I should be ok to continue jogging

Glad you weren't more seriously injured and that you seem to have rebounded. That's great news. Please be careful...
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Hey my ankle was all pretty good and I actually ended up with a 16km run today. Without my legs toast from swimming running feels easier.

I also lost track of what number of runs i am on and looked at the challenge standings and see I hit 50 runs today!!!
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [andreakayms] [ In reply to ]
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andreakayms wrote:
Please explain what determines my (don't look its super slow, but moving nontheless) PACE? On the leaderboard, my pace is about a full minute slower than what I think it should be AND slower than all my STRAVA activity average pace (from whince the Challenge data derives) . Thanks for the explanation.
Slowman wrote:
i'll let eric answer this. i haven't mathed it out, but i think it gets my pace about right. but maybe i'm not paying enough attention to know.
FWIW, I have kept my own track of my "100/100" runs. (I know, I should get a life.) I keep a running tab of my cumulative miles and time. When I divide the time in minutes by the distance in miles, I always get within one second of what shows up on the 100/00 leaderboard.

(e.g. as of today, my 20:33:14 = 1233.12 minutes divided by my 116.19 miles = a pace of 10.614 min/mile = 10:36.84 min/mile. The leaderboard gives me a 10:36 min/mile pace. The conversion factor of 0.6217 miles/km that is being used will take care of everything if you enter your distances in km.)

As long as your distances and times are entered correctly, it seems to give the correct value for your cumulative pace.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Hey my ankle was all pretty good and I actually ended up with a 16km run today. Without my legs toast from swimming running feels easier.

I also lost track of what number of runs i am on and looked at the challenge standings and see I hit 50 runs today!!!

Glad to hear it Dev. what a pleasant surprise to be in the + column.
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Re: Official 14th Annual 2020/2021 Slowtwitch 100/100 Challenge Thread [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah if I could not run like 2 years ago this lockdown we are in would be unbearable. 100/100 is definitely nicely timed. With almost all sports shot down now and us in the depth of winter the only people getting any exercise are walkers and runners. I fear with lack of daylight and cold weather our current lockdown is going to be hard on society in general. Luckily my rolled ankle was very mild. I have had this 1000x in my life but it can also be bad where I need to take 1-4 weeks off and bike only. In any case running is the gift that kept me really fit thru many years of heavy biz travel where you have crappy or no gyms and no pool access. Most of my peers on similar work travel schedules gained 10-50 lbs because they were eating out, not sleeping well, and could not exercise. With running your fitness routine is portable to any venue
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