Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... (Page 6): Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums

Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]

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ericmulk

Jun 23, 19 20:53

Post #126 of 154 (2853 views)

mauricemaher wrote:

ericmulk wrote:

mauricemaher wrote:

ericmulk wrote:

mauricemaher wrote:

I think from memory Eric spent a lot of those “1000 hours” via bike commute.
To be clear even if it was actually 1k hours per year, that is exorcise not training. Still awesome and would lead to some great low end benefits that you could actually start training from but if you’ve never done that who knows?
Also he never signed up and raced an IM.
Also a mid 10’s in the 90’s would have gotten you in to Kona....pretty much in most age groups if you banged on the door a bit.
Maurice

Nope, zero commuting. Typical day would be starting at about 5 PM: ride 30 miles, run 6 mi, then swim 4000 yds, shower, get home around 9.30 pm, take dog for 1 hr walk, eat, go to be around midnight, sleep 'til 7 am. Weekends Sat would be 5000 yd sw/60 mi bk/14 mi run. Sunday would be 3000/20/4. 3 to 4 days per week I would try to go as hard as I could during last part of each workout.

From memory so perhaps I am confusing you with another poster.
Currently, if you’ll entertain me:
What AG are you in?
Kids or no kids?
Is your work 40 hours/week clock in/clock out or management etc at 50-60 hours

Maurice - I am 64 now, 65 in Jan 2020. Never had any kids. I'm retired now but when I worked I was an engineer and sometimes a manager/leader. I spent a lot of time in the USAF so you were a "leader" not just a "manager". Definitely not a clock in/clock out but generally most places I worked were fine with flex hours.

Also - please see my response to Mark Lemmon above about why I never bothered to try an IM.

OK, new AG in 2020, a bit of spare time, likely the resources (time and financial), lifelong athlete with likely pretty good lifestyle “habits”
You see where I’m going with this right?
Maurice

Ya, I could possibly KQ in the next year or two if I set my mind to it now, espec since Kevin Moats is now "retired", at least in theory. Doping or not, that guy was just flat out fast. However, if I were to KQ next year, that would be after 35 years of trying, during which I've averaged about 700 hr/yr of training. :)

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

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AS88

Jun 23, 19 22:55

Post #127 of 154 (2831 views)

lightheir wrote:

Seriously? 2:05 Oly for a 'medium difficulty' course on AVERAGE work = "average"???? Just look at almost any race results outside the national Oly championships, and a 2:05 puts you into the top 5%, and sometimes even wins the overall outright.

(blablabla)...

At least from this link, the AVERAGE finish time for an Oly tri in 2011 was 3hrs. Start from that reality and work backwards.

From this link, 3 hours would have you in the bottom 20%, so I guess it is a question of cherry picking the right race.

https://my2.raceresult.com/66718/?lang=en#1_97F9E7

But maybe it is like kg to lbs, that the conversion rate makes it into 3 hours American time?

Last edited by: Schnellinger: Jun 23, 19 23:38

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]

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lightheir

Jun 24, 19 3:50

Post #128 of 154 (2773 views)

I just googled it. That was the avg from a 75 race sample on that link.

I do agree 3 hrs seems slow for the avg, maybe it is too slow for m40.butnworks of all the women and older AG's are included.

Either way, 2:05 is 4th overall in your link or top 1-2 percent. Some would even call that elite performance so avg for that is only realistic for someone with elite to pro genetics on 'average' training.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

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Bioteknik

Jun 24, 19 4:57

Post #129 of 154 (2742 views)

A 2:05 will usually be competitive for an overall podium spot, assuming the bike isn't short. Now a national level event will be faster, but probably also flatter than some regional event. That is around 20:60:40 + transitions, maybe more like 22:60:38. But definitely not average results.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]

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Mark Lemmon

Jun 24, 19 7:31

Post #130 of 154 (2672 views)

ericmulk wrote:

Mark - I didn't do any IMs due to my very limited success in half irons. Best half time was 4:42, on a flat course, no wind, 75-ish and cloudy, so pretty much perfect conditions. That was the only time I broke 5 hrs. So, given such limited success in the semi-long races, I chose to focus on Oly dist races. Was able to go 2:10-2:15 on regular basis which would put me 2nd to 4th in my AG in regional races. In bigger races like Memphis in May where you could actually KQ in the Oly dist race, I'd go 2:10-2:12 but the KQ guys in my AG 35-39 and 40-44) were going 1:58-59. As I know you know, it is a HUGE gap between a 2:10 and 1:59. :)

I did Memphis in May each year from '97 to '99. Best time there was 2:06:52 in '97. Your volume should have aided you competitively in an IM in a way it didn't in a HIM. Too bad you didn't discover whether that was true.

Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Jun 24, 19 7:59

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]

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LifeTri

Jun 24, 19 7:37

Post #131 of 154 (2660 views)

My apologize.

I meant everything was average with the exception of work.

I dont know what the optimal amount of hours are. But lets say its optimal to do 12 hours a week for a sprint, 15 for oly, 18 for half, and 25 for full.

Based on those numbers I think that is what is possible based on genetics.

I consider myself very average when it comes to sports. I averaged 5.4 hours of training a week last year and zero formal training the year before. I have started to train a lot more this year just recently hitting 10-17 hours a week consistently...but have not raced yet. As you can see, I am far from all american. This is my first year in the 35-39 age group.

My results:

Race Date Finish Time Score
IRONMAN 70.3 Atlantic City[ 9/22/2018 04:49:51.00 87.215
Steelman Olympic Triathlon 8/11/2018 02:23:16.00 89.228
Williamstown Badgers Autumn Lake Triathlon 8/4/2018 01:11:17.00 87.963
New Jersey State Triathlon - intermediate 7/21/2018 02:15:18.09 91.351
Escape Philadelphia Triathlon 6/23/2018 02:17:54.00 89.245
IRONMAN 70.3 Raleigh 6/2/2018 05:13:04.00 87.916
Ron Jon Cocoa Beach Triathlon 4/7/2018 01:01:21.00 86.439
Mighty Moraine Man Fall Sprint - Traithlon 9/16/2017 01:05:29.10 81.227
DQ Events - Pine Barrens Sprint Triathlon 9/8/2017 01:46:31.00 80.714
Williamstown Badgers Autumn Lake Triathlon 8/12/2017 01:12:24.00 78.432

Last edited by: LifeTri: Jun 24, 19 7:44

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [Alan Couzens] [ In reply to ]

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samtridad

Jun 24, 19 10:33

Post #132 of 154 (2572 views)

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [samtridad] [ In reply to ]

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Fleck

Jun 24, 19 11:58

Post #133 of 154 (2529 views)

I would be interested to know how many of your athletes are able to complete the 1000+ hours of annual training without becoming injured. Do you have a high rate of athlete drop-out or do they all seem to manage to do the training without injuries cropping up? I would suggest that many people would simply break if they tried to put in 1000+ hours of training in a year - either physically (especially from large amounts of running) or emotionally (repercussions to family life, career etc). Do you keep data for the percentage of athletes who are able to stick with the 1000+ hours per year plan?

1000 hrs/year to newbies or those with no back-ground in higher performance level endurance sports may seem like a lot and it is, but it's fairly common and doable.

That's about 20 hrs/week. A 4 - 5 hr bike ride, ounce per, week will get you a 1/4 of the way there. Throw in a 2 - 3 hour run somewhere else in the week, and at a minimum 4 hours of swimming for the week and now we are over the half way mark. Fill in with another 5 - 8 hrs of other shorter training sessions for running and cycling and you are up to your 20 hours! This is not uncommon for Pro level triathletes, and top AGers in the build portion of their year.

If you did not come from any sort of higher level endurance sports back ground then, it will probably take 3 - 5 years to build up to this level of volume.

You also need to have some luck with durability as I mentioned previously - some are lucky in this way and some are not (perhaps longer racing is NOT for you!)

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [samtridad] [ In reply to ]

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AS88

Jun 24, 19 12:15

Post #134 of 154 (2514 views)

I know your question wasn't directly directed to me, but here are my stats for the past 365 days:

Bike: 418 Hours, 42.6%

Swim: 264 Hours, 27%

Running: 216 Hours, 22%

Strength: 72 Hours, 7.4%

Other 10 hours 1% (This includes some XC skiing and ice skating)

Total: 980 Hours

Not injured more than the usual nagging you get from training. After I realised that you can train through most minor things, as long as you rehab correctly, I have been able to maintain a nice volume for a rookie.

For context I didn't work out October 2017 - April 2018, but I have probably done a bit more work than normal people in the past. 31 y/o.

Last edited by: Schnellinger: Jun 24, 19 12:19

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

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samtridad

Jun 24, 19 12:17

Post #135 of 154 (2509 views)

I get that Fleck, but how many athletes are doing a weekly five hour ride for 50 weeks of the year? I can see how some people might train 20 hours a week for an eight to ten week block, but a 1000+ hour year would mean 50+ of these 20 hour weeks... Or it would mean that in their heavy training phase they are hitting 25 hours a week for six months and 15 hours a week for the other six months. Either way, my point is that if "anyone can KQ" excludes anyone who can't physically (or emotionally) manage 20 hours a week of training on average, for the whole year, then that's not really "anyone", rather it is a special sub-set of "anyone". I'm interested to know what percentage of the population would have the physiological abilities needed to train at that level, certainly not everyone, in my view. So really, the point is that not just anyone can KQ if what it takes to KQ is 1000+ hours per year...

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

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longtrousers

Jun 24, 19 12:51

Post #136 of 154 (2474 views)

Fleck wrote:

1000 hrs/year to newbies or those with no back-ground in higher performance level endurance sports may seem like a lot and it is, but it's fairly common and doable.

That's about 20 hrs/week.

Well that's if you ONLY take 2 weeks off from training per year;
And if you're NEVER ill.
And if you NEITHER have an off-season, NOR take it a couple of days easy after a race.
And if you NEVER have short term obligations which make you train less than you planned.

You will not find a person like this. It is not possible.

If you want to get to 1000 hrs/yr you will have to do a lot of 25 hour-weeks and some 30 hour-weeks. Otherwise you never get to the average of 20.

I just counted my hours from a year ago to now. It's 507. (And I just KQd again a couple of weeks ago).
1000 is NOT IMAGINEABLE to me. OK I could swim 150 hours more if I had the time. But I do not see how to add more to the B and R.
But maybe because I'm 57 years old. And I've got a family. And a fulltime job.

Last edited by: longtrousers: Jun 24, 19 12:52

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]

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LifeTri

Jun 24, 19 13:26

Post #137 of 154 (2440 views)

longtrousers wrote:

Give me Bernie Sanders blanket student loan forgiveness, medicare for all, and Andrew Yang's Universal Basic Income (on steroids) and I will sure as hell try.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]

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lightheir

Jun 24, 19 13:57

Post #138 of 154 (2415 views)

LifeTri wrote:

Dude, if you were doing USAT 86-89 after 1 year of training of 5 hrs per week, you are definitely wayyyy more talented than the 'average' triathlete. Your starting floor of USAT 78 is better than the ceiling for most AG triathletes.

I think USAT All-American is a USAT score of 90 - if true, I don't see how you could claim you are far from All-American; you are virtually there.

I think you're making the typical erroneous assumption from people with natural ability, that everyone else has they same ability. Extremely common for people who haven't been doing the sport/activity long enough to realize how limited everyone else is in comparison.

Happened to me in school academics & music - spent my childhood wondering why everyone was so terrible and 'slacking', but once I hit college and early adulthood, realized that the farrr more likely explanation is that I was intrinsically gifted at those two things, and I could accomplish far more with a measly 4-6 hrs of week of halfbaked practice/study compared to super motivated but average-ability folks who were spending 15+hrs/wk on just one of those activities.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

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Stelvio

Jun 24, 19 14:33

Post #139 of 154 (2381 views)

lightheir wrote:

[

Dude, if you were doing USAT 86-89 after 1 year of training of 5 hrs per week, you are definitely wayyyy more talented than the 'average' triathlete. Your starting floor of USAT 78 is better than the ceiling for most AG triathletes.

I think USAT All-American is a USAT score of 90 - if true, I don't see how you could claim you are far from All-American; you are virtually there.

I think you're making the typical erroneous assumption from people with natural ability, that everyone else has they same ability. Extremely common for people who haven't been doing the sport/activity long enough to realize how limited everyone else is in comparison.

Happened to me in school academics & music - spent my childhood wondering why everyone was so terrible and 'slacking', but once I hit college and early adulthood, realized that the farrr more likely explanation is that I was intrinsically gifted at those two things, and I could accomplish far more with a measly 4-6 hrs of week of halfbaked practice/study compared to super motivated but average-ability folks who were spending 15+hrs/wk on just one of those activities.

Agreed 86-89 after 1 year of training is way above average. 89 would put him in top 15% of the M35-39 based on 2018 scores. 92.077 was the cutoff in the AG for USAT All-American status. For those that aren't familiar the AA status is top 10% of qualified racers (3 or more races). The score needed will go down as the AG gets older e.g. M40-44 was 89.929 last year and M50-54 was 87.864 etc..

It took me many years at way more than 5 hours per week to just to get to the mid 80s. A further few more years later with a much better winter plan and way more hours (10-12 per week overall average 600+ hours) to crack get into the 90s.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

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LifeTri

Jun 24, 19 15:11

Post #140 of 154 (2360 views)

lightheir wrote:

LifeTri wrote:

That makes a lot of sense, actually. I am one of those people that had to put in 10-20 hours of studying a week to make sure I could maintain a 3.1-3.3 GPA while in college/masters inside of my major (BS Economics and MS Finance). Outside my major was a different story...but I just like politics (4.0). High School I never studied and was a 2.4 student. I learned quickly that Community College or not...I had to study. Then I went to a state school and had to study harder. That got me into a reputable grad school. Even more hard work...

Thank you for the comparison. I never thought about it like that.

Edit: I don't think a USAT score of 90 means All American. I did hit 91 in one race and I wasn't even close.

Last edited by: LifeTri: Jun 24, 19 15:14

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

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MrTri123

Jun 24, 19 17:33

Post #141 of 154 (2314 views)

lightheir wrote:

LifeTri wrote:

I don’t know much about the rankings

Is aquabike easier to get into the 80s and 90s score?

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]

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lightheir

Jun 24, 19 17:49

Post #142 of 154 (2301 views)

I don't know how the aquabike numbers work, but for the 2 events I did which weren't a full tri (one was aquabike and one was duathlon format), I was scored 99 and 102, and my race results were barely FOMOP for the event (meaning I got beaten by so many guys I didn't even place in my age group), so it's probably different standard for those two, as if it were a triathlon 102, you'd probably be winning the overall in local races.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]

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Stelvio

Jun 24, 19 19:17

Post #143 of 154 (2254 views)

LifeTri wrote:

Edit: I don't think a USAT score of 90 means All American. I did hit 91 in one race and I wasn't even close.

Final ranking is based on your best 3 race scores (need a minimum of 3 to be ranked in the final ranking). For your age group 91.351 isn't quite there, but i would guess you will have no problem hitting the (likely) 92.xxx (for M35-39) threshold this year going from 5.4 hours a week to 10-17. The point is that you are way above average, to be posting those scores so new to the sport.

Perhaps your "not good at sports" is helped by being pretty decent at 3 sports.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]

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Stelvio

Jun 24, 19 19:25

Post #144 of 154 (2248 views)

FYI:
https://www.teamusa.org/...gs/rankings-criteria

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [Stelvio] [ In reply to ]

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fulla

Jun 24, 19 19:35

Post #145 of 154 (2231 views)

Anyone who averages 20 hours a week for 50 weeks of a year (just a 2 week break in the year! that's less than most pros have!), and is an age grouper, must have absolutely no life aside from triathlon outside of work commitments. Like, no time for anything else.

How many of these people averaging 20 hours a week for basically a year have families or a partner and work full time? From what I've read of kona age group winners, some of them top out at an average of 16 hours per week during their ironman builds!

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [fulla] [ In reply to ]

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scca_ita

Jun 24, 19 20:09

Post #146 of 154 (2208 views)

fulla wrote:

Anyone who averages 20 hours a week for 50 weeks of a year (just a 2 week break in the year! that's less than most pros have!), and is an age grouper, must have absolutely no life aside from triathlon outside of work commitments. Like, no time for anything else.

How many of these people averaging 20+ hours a week for basically a year have families or a partner and work full time? From what I've read of kona age group winners, some of them top out at an average of 16 hours per week during their ironman builds!

Yep, I am about 12-15 hours a week for base and couple of 20 + hour weeks on the build... you need quality and with intensity at times but regular 20hrs + is BS, and you need rest too.

Last edited by: scca_ita: Jun 24, 19 20:19

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [fulla] [ In reply to ]

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MrTri123

Jun 24, 19 20:27

Post #147 of 154 (2186 views)

168 hours in a week

Sleep 8x7 = 56

Work 45

101

67 hours left over

Average screen time in USA - TV, smart phone and computer. = 35 hours/week

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]

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scca_ita

Jun 24, 19 20:39

Post #148 of 154 (2174 views)

You must be a millennial and or single... my apologies if I am wrong. This is a very simplistic view.

Work 45 hours? No commute time? No meal time? No family time, no yard work... what about daylight hours? I don’t ride or run in the dark, maybe swim and will only jump on Zwift if rainy...but again I still call BS on the need for an AGer to put in regular 20+ hours a week of training.

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [scca_ita] [ In reply to ]

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JasoninHalifax

Jun 24, 19 20:47

Post #149 of 154 (2165 views)

scca_ita wrote:

If you listen to the podcast, Alan didn’t say that you had to put in 1000 hours per year in order to qualify. He said that he’s never coached an athlete who put in those hours who didn’t get to a KQ level of fitness. But he’s also coached athletes who were able to get there on less.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

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Re: Anyone can KQ. Anyone.... [scca_ita] [ In reply to ]

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MRid

Jun 25, 19 6:31

Post #150 of 154 (2066 views)

scca_ita wrote:

If you don't want to train indoors, that's totally up to you. But that's not a limiter for getting in training hours. Many of us on here do most of our training before 7am.

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