One word for you. Bisaddle. As with everyone else I have spent at least $1000 dollars on every tri saddle that promised comfort. They all produced excruciating pain after several hours. I bought the bisaddle with two separate top pieces that can be adjusted independently. Wide in the front, wide in the back, narrow in the front, narrow in the back etc. You can also adjust the “crown” of the saddle by rotating each half outwards from flat, to little crowned, to lot crowned. Put it in the trainer, tried the two separate sets of saddle tops, tried all three crowning angles. Tried every single combination the saddle would go into, when it fits you know it. That saddle is nothing short of amazing! Makes riding in the aero position all day an option. It’s a joy to concentrate on speed and power and not “when can I get off this thing”. Well worth the money, they even have a thirty day return policy. Takes a bit of fiddling to find that perfect spot, but when you find it, the heavens open, angels sing and it’s hammer time!

Have you tried a Dash saddle?

Here is a great example of "the bike working for you" and not the other way around. The saddle is adjustable, customizable to your morphology/preference... it literally works for you!

BiSaddle worked great for me in another way... my leg length discrepancy. Over the years I had developed a lopsided stance on the saddle and it worked for me, but it was noticeable. One intrepid anatomically minded physical therapist / fitter at Dan's FIST camp took a look at me on the fit bike, grabbed a BiSaddle, and sorted me out in 5min. It was great, he used the adjustability to create an asymmetric saddle that matched my needs and straightened out my pedal stroke.

Eric

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Dash is a good example of "how saddles are supposed to be sat on". If you buy one of their saddle/seatpost combos, it comes tilted waaay down from level, which is a hint about how it's meant to be sat on and informs the rest of your fit if you're paying attention.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

i found the bisaddle the only saddle that worked in both tri and standard positions on my bikepacker. i'd like to know what model you have. i found the "sprint" to be the one.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Years after your nation-wide Saddle Tour I am still riding in comfort on the saddle I picked out during that event. It's a shame that bike shops (apparently) didn't buy into that saddle swapping device.

The logistics alone make it worth it... 2 seconds per saddle vs two min.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I now have a Dash saddle on both tri and road bikes. Stage for tri bike and Strike on the road bike. It took several months of fiddling with adjustments to get them just about perfect when I initially got each. I find that volume leads to better feel. During the height of the pandemic I was ridding 1500 miles for a few months in a row - riding that much led to zero saddle issues. Maybe my body just adapted and got more durable.

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I certainly found that to be the case as well. Early on I got up to 300mpw and have been good ever since. Time in the saddle to learn your body and feedback you’re getting and how to sit.


Trick is to get a saddle that allows that high mileage learning period.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Hi Eric,
your mention of leg length discrepancies and saddle issues prompts me to write. My length difference (left shorter than right) is 19 or 20 mm; I recall x-rays while standing next to marked metal rulers being involved in the determination of this number about 20 years ago. It's effect on how I stand, walk, run, cycle, etc. is pronounced enough that I've had various podiatrists, PTs, bike fitters, massage therapists, etc. remark on the asymmetry after a few seconds of observation. Some have also asked me how much discomfort I'm in when walking / running, etc. My answer to them has generally been 'it doesn't bother me at all' but as I've had this for quite some time, I'm not sure how I would separate out any discomfort caused by the length discrepancy from what's normally experienced at race intensity - I've been a competitive runner for 50 years and cyclist / triathlete for 15+.

I've got a noticeable side to side rocking in my hips as I pedal, and staying in aero is difficult. Have you found this saddle to help with these?

Thanks,
Chris

Hi, thanks for reaching out. We have similar discrepancies.

For me, I originally rode a nosed road saddle for Tri, so had the sit off to one side, and naturally I shifted to the “short” side and so it evened out. When I moved to a split nosed saddle I still tended to shift left because by then it was just baked into my pedal stroke. The asymmetric BiSaddle intervention was just a way of evening it back out.

That said there are things that stand out to me... for sure a competent fitter will shim and wedge your fit to compensate for your leg length discrepancy and also ensure your saddle height and setback are correct to eliminate rocking in the saddle. Crank length can affect that too.

I find that for saddles, the one that allows the most pelvic rotation is best because it seems to save some distance... I use half the wedges for tri as I do on road shoes.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Interestingly, I have basically no saddle discomfort no matter how far I ride. Back when I rode a Flite saddle, which is pretty minimal, I got fit by John Cobb while at a race (1990 Memphis in May). I have kept the same position and saddle adjustments since that time and all is well, although I am now on an Arione Tri. I can give more details, but the fit is fist before fist. Make the front 4 - 5 inches of the saddle level, and lay your taint down the side. Really no issues. Slowman, you tried to get me to experiment . . . describing something about old college girlfriends (in front of young Riley) but I have stayed where I am. And so I ride on!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Thanks. I've had shims and wedges but for no good reason I can recall, they didn't make the transition to new bike shoes. Probably time to revisit that with a fitter.

Absolutely. Except I’m riding a very old Shiv that was part of the extension -recall about five years ago. The extensions that they placed on the bike have no tilt function. I wish that I had just kept the old set up. It may be time to upgrade.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

Most fitters still use hip-bone width when seated upright for contact point saddle width.
Most split nose saddles forme are simply too wide at contact points and up front, if you tilt your hip forwards into the aero position. Especially if you have narrow hips.
Wasted hundreds of dollars on split nose, stubbed saddles.

Went back to a narrow short nose traditional saddle (kids-sized....LoL) that every fitter told me is ‘not ideal’ for me (and may well be for road riding).

Just putting this out there, as I consider most of the modern tri saddles designed by those with wide hips, big butts and plenty of cushioning.

I’m putting some thoughts on paper about this, but the measuring the sit bones is not the way to go about finding a TT saddle, for the reasons you mentioned but mostly because it’s not *elegant*, it’s not doing things right *or* doing the right things. As you said, we rotate our pelvii and also long nosed saddles are great for road applications because of the variety of position requirements/possibilities. Finally, I feel seen... your wide hips 65mm split nose saddle width comments are hitting the mark with me.

One great way to measure yourself is using the adjustability of a BiSaddle... nose all the way wide, see how it feels. All the way narrow see how it feels. In the middle, etc. Eventually you’ll know the width of your pubic bones, which is a direct measurement and not a proxy measurement like sit bones is. One you have this info you’ll know what family of saddles might best suit you.

Eric

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I put an ISM Pn 3.1 on my Cervelo P Series and I can’t even feel the saddle. I could ride for days and never get numb. Best money I ever invested in my bike.

Now trying out a ISM 4.0 which is the same apart from 1 cm wider in the back. So far it;s been the best but far from ideal for me.

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What do you think would be ideal for you?

It might help if you had a picture or video of you on your bike in the TT position.

Eric

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Ideally I would like to not have a numb penis ;)
To be honest though I have no clue what would would work for me. Tried out a jcob 55 and feels great when initially sitting on it because of no pressure points but its narrow enough to cause my entire pelvis to go numb after 30min. Going back and forth on the ISM4.0 and toying around with a bisaddle.

I've been meaning to follow up with you for a while (does my name ring a bell from Christmas?) Took forever to get the 160 cranks... I'll get you some video this evening.

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IG - @ryanppax
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Ok keep me posted :)

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Honest question, what happens when you lower your seat a lot? Like so low it feels weird? Do you still get pelvic numbness?

To me that just sounds like a seat too high as dev mentioned.

I ride an ISM Road saddle (several years old) on my triathlon bike and an ISM Typhoon on my road bike. Indoors is never going to be as comfortable as outside, but the game changer for me was lowering my seat height and purchasing a Kinetic Rock & Roll trainer. I still have to remember to take "butt breaks" during long rides indoors but the pain and saddle sores are under control. Also, there is a toughening up period if I've been off the bike too long which lasts a couple weeks!

I've found that my TT bike comfort saddle-wise comes down to which bib shorts I use. The "road bike team cut" stuff simply doesn't seem to work for a damn. They are GSG pro fit shorts that I hate. I have a pair of Castelli Entrata that feel good. A pair of Ale' that are OK. The DHB thermal bib feels pretty darn good. The best is actually an old cheapy pair of way too big a pad actual shorts that came from REI as a house brand for one year only.

Those same REI ones suck on the road bike saddle. The GSG pro fit ones sucks on road bike saddle also.

The complaint I have with the bibs that don't work on the TT bike is that the pad is too narrow in the taint area for a taint pressure relief "TT" or "tri" saddle.

I'm going to hazard a guess this may be why the skinsuits in the pro peloton are often paired with more "road" looking saddles than 95% ISM and Mistica style saddles. The saddle may relieve the pressure, but the pad in the bib is gone by that wide!

So, that's my issue with comfort in TT. With the shorts I say feel "good", I can ride a TT bike setup position wise for pretty much 10mi distance and 25mi in desperation of a race for 2 hours or so. Longer than that, may as well go road bike and just have the comfort for more training volume and add intensity for the TT bike rides to keep them shorter.

But, it's that weird narrow taint area bib pad issue that usually kills it for me.

When I’m aero, I seem to have to choose between pain and sores on the soft tissue that covers my pubis bones or perineal numbness. In a road cycling position, I don’t have these problems. I ride “nose less” saddles like ism adamo and bi saddle. When I lean forward in to the aero bars and my pelvis tilts, I roll from the ischial tuberosities onto the more narrow pubis area. If I ride off the “nose” a bit, I’m in my most comfortable overall position and generate the most power and comfortable cadence but the pressure on my soft tissue from the saddle contact points gets pretty intense. If I scoot back to spread the pressure onto more tissue, it slowly numbs my perineal area. So I shift around a lot which I find annoying, distracting, and performance reducing.
Edit: perhaps I just need to take my bi saddle to a fitter that could help me adjust it better. The bi saddle has been so much better than anything I’ve ever tried. But it’s just not quite right atm