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Oh My Aching Saddle
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There remains this unfortunate truism: 35 years after the inventions of the aerobar saddle soreness while in the aero position remains the largest comfort problem while riding in this position. Of course it's not the saddle that aches, but the part of your anatomy that rests on it.

This will be one of our "curated discussions," like our bike fit assistance threads, and answers to your saddle questions should come quickly, and by bike fitters who have experience solving saddle issues. First-line help is from Eric Reid, who curates our Cervelo Fit Assistance thread. You may let fly with questions, comments, anything saddle-related, whether tri-specific or not, but tri is our main interest.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I've accepted that I'll never be comfortable! For me its a choice between numbness or eventual saddle sore.

IG - @ryanppax
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I'm wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that's switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I'm trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely "chased me out of triathlon". In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I've been running a lot of miles but that's it....) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I'm signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won't last long.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So without getting too graphic, I have always wondered if there is a way to measure or assess our perineum down there (privately of course) and use that information to help pick out an appropriate saddle based on length, width, etc.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of things I found helpful in my day:

(1) Use 2 pairs of cycling shorts (at the same time) when you do something where you expect pain in the glutes (e.g. the first long workout of the year or a long race.) The lycra still wicks away the moisture and the extra padding distributes the pressure more, so less pressure on any given spot.

(2) I used a seat shifter (I don't know if these are still legal/available), but when one part of my bum was sore I could move the seat a little and change the point of max pressure to a spot that was a little less sensitive.

Tri or tri not; this is no du. (--- with apologies to Yoda.) Slow triathlete who survived Huntsville, Lelystadt, Colmar, Fontanil, and
Szekesfehervar/Lake Velence. Arbor hydration specialist in a kid's park in Monterrey 4 times in the 1990s (and in the pits in 1994).
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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It's been mentioned before many times, but is worth repeating, even if it doesn't solve everyone's problems.

Lowering your saddle, sometimes significantly, often can help a LOT.

I had to lower my saddle so much that it felt almost ridiculous (which also cost me a lot of power initially) but then gradually tested raising it tiny amounts at a time until I reached a position that no longer gave me saddle sores. After that was known, I kept raising a little until I started getting minimal problems, and used a position in between the two.

I periodicially remove my seatposts to make sure they don't seize, and I'll admit in the past I've never been good about marking the replacement position, and when I start getting saddle sores again on long rides, it's invariably the seatpost height.

For me, the seatpost height made ALL the difference. I had even purchased 3 different seats of varying height, thickness, and softness all of which failed before making the seatpost change and thankfully it solved everything for me. Dont' get me wrong - if I don't ride much and then go out and do a 3-hour ride , sure the rear end will feel it, but in contrast, with a good seat height, the training works meaning I can safely build up to those long rides without sores limiting me.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [wannabefaster] [ In reply to ]
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wannabefaster wrote:
Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I'm trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely "chased me out of triathlon". In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I've been running a lot of miles but that's it....) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I'm signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won't last long.

i always tilt the saddle nose down until i begin to slide forward. you know this of course when you're constantly pushing yourself back in the saddle. depending on how and where you measure on the saddle, that's a 2.5 to 4 degree tilt. you can't slide forward. that's a no-go.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [crujones#33] [ In reply to ]
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crujones#33 wrote:
So without getting too graphic, I have always wondered if there is a way to measure or assess our perineum down there (privately of course) and use that information to help pick out an appropriate saddle based on length, width, etc.

pressure mapping is a thing. the most notable brand associated with this is gebiomized. my problem, issue, concern, hesitation, with pressure mapping is what it always is with any prescriptive system. what is the metric that causes you to change or determine your behavior? i look at saddles like i look at dating. how will you choose your spouse? by a questionnaire? or by going out on a bunch of dates?

years ago we sponsored the slowtwitch saddle tour. we sent a piece of tech around the country, to a bunch of shops and bike fitters. it was a quick-change saddle device you could put on your fit bike, and you could change a saddle in 10 seconds, without the rider even having to get off the bike. you could do a pretty good demo of 4 or 5 saddles over a period of 20 minutes.

of course you couldn't know what saddle would work, for sure, over the long haul, but - just like dating - you could pretty well figure out which prospects would not work pretty quickly. as in, after 30 seconds. often it came down to "finalists", as in, it's either this saddle or that. and then the shop had its policies for how you settled that issue.

there is a new saddle changing device now entering the market, which will now make 2 of them on the market, and i think testing - "dating" - various saddles is surest way to determined your "behavior," which is in this case how you choose a saddle.

i have been to a lot of bike shops, bike studios, fitter's studios, and the way things have been - what i've seen - is unfortunately that the choice of saddles is thin in the places i've visited. i have probably 70 or 80 saddles in my workshop. i've got to shops with expensive fit studios and the choice of aerobars is, maybe, 2, and the choice of saddles not more than 3 or 4. finding the right saddle is not that hard, but experience, tooling, selection, matters.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [wannabefaster] [ In reply to ]
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wannabefaster wrote:
Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I'm trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely "chased me out of triathlon". In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I've been running a lot of miles but that's it....) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I'm signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won't last long.

I have found that a narrow saddle with almost no flare-out at the back has been the key to being comfortable. I currently use a Dash saddle, the Stage G2 narrow width. It is a pretty minimalist saddle from a padding standpoint, but it curves downward in such a way that I don't have to tilt it much, so I can stay on it without too many issues with the undercarriage. My Shiv came with a Sitero and I hated it, it was too wide, too blunt, the nose was cut off at angle that left me either being crushed or dangling on the front with no support. IMHO it is a terrible saddle with nothing to recommend it. I realize, however, that anatomic differences will make this the saddle that someone has been seeking their whole life. Just not me. I can't recommend Dash highly enough. great customer service, and a trial period for a pretty affordable cost to see if it works for you.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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If I start riding time trial/triathlon bikes again, I would be tempted to go custom. The saddles from MELD transformed my road and gravel bikes over the last year. I get that it's a different part of the anatomy, but I'm curious if they have done much to address that as well.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [eblackadder] [ In reply to ]
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eblackadder wrote:
wannabefaster wrote:
Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I'm trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely "chased me out of triathlon". In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I've been running a lot of miles but that's it....) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I'm signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won't last long.


I have found that a narrow saddle with almost no flare-out at the back has been the key to being comfortable. I currently use a Dash saddle, the Stage G2 narrow width. It is a pretty minimalist saddle from a padding standpoint, but it curves downward in such a way that I don't have to tilt it much, so I can stay on it without too many issues with the undercarriage. My Shiv came with a Sitero and I hated it, it was too wide, too blunt, the nose was cut off at angle that left me either being crushed or dangling on the front with no support. IMHO it is a terrible saddle with nothing to recommend it. I realize, however, that anatomic differences will make this the saddle that someone has been seeking their whole life. Just not me. I can't recommend Dash highly enough. great customer service, and a trial period for a pretty affordable cost to see if it works for you.


It's funny, I've been riding Cobb saddles for years with an Adamo that I trade in and out every once in awhile when things get too uncomfortable. Trying to find that Holy Grail....

My brother in law loaned me the Sitero in a bag full of parts. I decided to throw it on for a trial and so far it has been the most comfortable I can remember being in aero position.

The Dash intrigues me. I may have to trial one and see what I think.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
Last edited by: wannabefaster: Mar 23, 21 10:08
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I have been lucky to find the perfect saddle (perfect to me, obviously!) for my road bike: Selle SMP Dynamic.

However, it does not 'work' with my Tri Bike and I have yet to find a good saddle.

'Standard Saddle' + Fisik Mistica + Fabric Tri Race + Prologo dimension Tri + SMP Dynamic + Cobb JOF + SMP TT 2 => numbness in aero position

ISM PN2.1 + ISM PN3.1 + Bontrager Hilo => Numbness is ok but causes chafing / saddle sores ... ISM PN2.1 seemed to be a bit better if angled down significantly and prongs zipped tighter ... but then that results in back pain!

I am due to receive end of this week the Dash Strike (stock G2) ... crossing fingers !
Last edited by: ThibThib: Mar 23, 21 11:12
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I'm wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that's switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

I have the nearly exact same thing. I made a rocker plate. It helps but did not solve the problem. On the road I can ride a fairly hard (nearly no padding) saddle but on the trainer padding is what I need to be comfy. I have tried various saddles and so far nothing is that perfect one.... So I would say if you are like me the rocker plate may help but probably will not solve it. My rocker has all sorts of adjustment by changing the rubber spacers I use and springs etc and it has enough rocking when standing seems about similar to the road. It does not however move forward too much, maybe a cm? or so?
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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Ryanppax wrote:
I've accepted that I'll never be comfortable! For me its a choice between numbness or eventual saddle sore.

It doesn't have to be this way! Somewhere, there is the right way to sit on the right saddle for you and the position you're in. We can find it.

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I'm wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that's switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?


This is a great question, and I'm in danger of derailing the thread, but indoors the fact that your bike doesn't move side-to-side is a huge component of indoor discomfort. I've talked to people that used those bumper plate things under their trainers to add some suspension. I think short of that a neoprene saddle cover, or a saddle with more padding, would help.

That said, it's a magnifying issue. Anything suboptimal outdoors will be magnified indoors. For either drop bars or time trial applications the *right* saddle, for you, in your position, will help.

What are you on now?

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Last edited by: ericMPro: Mar 23, 21 11:55
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [wannabefaster] [ In reply to ]
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wannabefaster wrote:
Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I'm trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely "chased me out of triathlon". In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I've been running a lot of miles but that's it....) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I'm signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won't last long.

There's a way to stop yourself from sliding forward that doesn't involve the saddle. My usual Slowtwitch persona is to make you guess (because earned wisdom sticks way better than received wisdom) or direct you to your local fitter, but in this case I'll make an exception. Tilting your bars up, to match the downward tilt of today's modern saddles is an extremely effective and optimal way to get the best of both worlds with regard to saddle tilt and positional stability.

Make sense?

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I'm wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that's switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?


This is a great question, and I'm in danger of derailing the thread, but indoors the fact that your bike doesn't move side-to-side is a huge component of indoor discomfort. I've talked to people that used those bumper plate things under their trainers to add some suspension. I think short of that a neoprene saddle cover, or a saddle with more padding, would help.

That said, it's a magnifying issue. Anything suboptimal outdoors will be magnified indoors. For either drop bars or time trial applications the *right* saddle, for you, in your position, will help.

What are you on now?

Eric

on the TT bike I'm on a Cobb v-flow. I don't really like that one indoors or out, but I'm not doing tris anymore, so its not really a priority.

on the roadie I'm on an old Selle Italia SLR, the original non-cutout minimalist version. I find that its very comfortable outside, the rides around here involve a lot of small rollers where you're in and out of the saddle. I've gone on 3-4 hour rides and not even noticed it.

indoors is another matter. its too much pressure on a small point for an extended period if I use the SLR, so I've been using another oldie, a Selle Italia Century. Also quite comfy outdoors (again, falls into the "I forgot it was there" category) not bad indoors, but not great, up to about an hour and a half. I'm not numb anywhere, its just that I notice it and I'm conscious of a need to shift my weight occasionally. After an hour and a half, I have to stand up a lot more than I would like.

Based on what you and others have said, I think that something like a Kinetic rock&roll smart trainer would go a long way, both from a natural movement and terrain simulation on Zwift so I'd be more inclined to get out of the saddle on small rises.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [madMike100] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if it was Rappstar that I first read this from, many years ago now on slowtwitch, but since then I’ve worn sports briefs under my tri shorts and that has reduced or eliminated any chaffing or discomfort more than any padding or wax/cream ever has.

I also use ISM PS2.0 on both my TT and road bikes. I’ve been tempted to test lighter saddles like Selle Italia’s Superflow variants, but it’s a low priority as I’m about as comfortable as I can expect up to ~120 miles as is.

That said, how much of saddle comfort has to do with riding harder? I notice that if I start to ease off on power and end up actually putting more weight on the saddle while in an aero position, it’ll eventually hurt. I feel like a good recipe for “comfort” is sticking to rides no longer than you can hold upper Z2, and adding time only after building strength and practice minimal coasting on shorter rides.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I'm wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that's switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?

This is me so much. I have had great TT and Road saddle success with a large variety of saddles. Indoor? Not so much if I am riding over 2 hours. I have a very nice rocker plate, great fits of all of my bikes and a nice trainer. Once I hit the 2 hours mark I either need to get off for 15 minutes and give ye ole taint a break or swap out bikes and resume. Nothing has ever helped this.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [codygo] [ In reply to ]
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it seems there is some truth to the power output idea. One of my worst days in the saddle out doors was when I had to soft pedal to help another rider find his way home and he was nursing a bike that would not shift into the big ring. It was torture.

On the trainer I have in fact tried to layers of shorts (ie two chamois) and well it seems to work if they are not to bulky side to side. To me that is a bit sub optimal but I have had it work on the trainer. I am still in search of my forever saddle though. I have a narrow sit bones so it is hard to find the right narrow saddle, the Italian made saddles seem to work best from that point of view for me, Selle Italia, Selle san Marco etc... none are quite perfect on the trainer but on the road as long as it is narrow enough and scooped enough I can ride most all day no problem. The problem is really the trainer.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I find saddles by far the most interesting piece on the bike. And for some years now I wonder what the ‘thing’ is that causes sime to have so much discomfort and others, like me, can ride almost anything. I can even ride most road bike saddles without too much issue.

I ride pretty aggressive in my tri-position but always on the back of the saddle. Currently the BiSaddle EXT but all the way back, and i don’t move a mm.....Participated in an aero test performed by GeBiomized and at first they thought I could not ride like that.
After the 2 days they never had seen someone that stayed so still in one saddle position like me.
But also prologo dimension, spec power pro, bontrager hilo comp, dash, pro stealth all no problem

But back to the why, I wonder if nerves, blood veins, urinal tube, prostate, etc. are located different between people. In the meaning that by one they are physically deeper/higher in the body and less close to the surface? Is it a combination of the bony ‘construction’ of the pelvic?It is so interesting why some seem to experience so much trouble that is drives them away from tri or cycling.

And I’m glad the Slowman here says he has 70 or 80 saddles in his fit studio. I thought I was the freak alone in this ;-)

Jeroen

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [wannabefaster] [ In reply to ]
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wannabefaster wrote:
Tilting the saddle nose down always seems to help with discomfort in the nether regions but then I feel like I am sliding out over my aerobars and have to keep pushing myself back. Any thoughts other than, go see a reputable fitter? I'm trying a Sitero that was loaned to me and so far it seems ok. I bet I have a $1,000 worth of saddles in the basement that I have tried over the years.

I have been professionally fit on three different occasions and have never really been comfortable on my bike. It has largely "chased me out of triathlon". In 2016, about 90 miles in to my seventh Ironman, I was so uncomfortable that I decided that I was taking a year off from tri training and just never went back (I've been running a lot of miles but that's it....) 2021 has me dipping my toes back in. I'm signed up for two tris, but in the absence of comfort on the bike, I won't last long.

Something tells me that if you are OK with dropping the nose, but you feel you will fall off the front of the aerobars, you just need to drop your saddle 7.5mm to 10 mm and most of your problems will be gone. It will compress your hip angle a bit, however, you will now have more weight on your legs and your aeropads vs saddle.

Imagine yourself sitting on an office chair that is "too high" (try 2 inches too high so your feet are dangling in the air) versus your heels are flat on the ground. I THINK you are riding on the equivalent of sitting on a bar stool versus an appropriate height office chair. Get off the bar stool and I bet you are set to go. If you don't believe me, just start by lowering your saddle 20mm so you're not in the bar stool position and then gradually raise your saddle until the first semblance of "bar stool" height kicks in and then back it down 2mm.
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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
crujones#33 wrote:
So without getting too graphic, I have always wondered if there is a way to measure or assess our perineum down there (privately of course) and use that information to help pick out an appropriate saddle based on length, width, etc.


pressure mapping is a thing. the most notable brand associated with this is gebiomized. my problem, issue, concern, hesitation, with pressure mapping is what it always is with any prescriptive system. what is the metric that causes you to change or determine your behavior? i look at saddles like i look at dating. how will you choose your spouse? by a questionnaire? or by going out on a bunch of dates?

years ago we sponsored the slowtwitch saddle tour. we sent a piece of tech around the country, to a bunch of shops and bike fitters. it was a quick-change saddle device you could put on your fit bike, and you could change a saddle in 10 seconds, without the rider even having to get off the bike. you could do a pretty good demo of 4 or 5 saddles over a period of 20 minutes.

of course you couldn't know what saddle would work, for sure, over the long haul, but - just like dating - you could pretty well figure out which prospects would not work pretty quickly. as in, after 30 seconds. often it came down to "finalists", as in, it's either this saddle or that. and then the shop had its policies for how you settled that issue.

there is a new saddle changing device now entering the market, which will now make 2 of them on the market, and i think testing - "dating" - various saddles is surest way to determined your "behavior," which is in this case how you choose a saddle.

i have been to a lot of bike shops, bike studios, fitter's studios, and the way things have been - what i've seen - is unfortunately that the choice of saddles is thin in the places i've visited. i have probably 70 or 80 saddles in my workshop. i've got to shops with expensive fit studios and the choice of aerobars is, maybe, 2, and the choice of saddles not more than 3 or 4. finding the right saddle is not that hard, but experience, tooling, selection, matters.

I'm relieved to hear this answer... the dating analogy is a good one, it's binary, and on which I'd like to expand.

Sometimes I think people get wrapped around the axle about being different. Yes, we're all different, but we're all the same kind of different. Your analogy hits the nail on the head in that the operative difference between people/athletes is not the map of their body parts but whether or not they like this saddle or that saddle, whether they'd want a second date. Thus from *there* the process begins, which is trying as many saddles as possible, guided by a person who knows how each saddle should or was intended to be sat on. Even though they can map our eyes, the eye doctor still does the old "better or worse" back and forth like when we were kids. Eventually the right saddle, sat on the right way, will match with the right position for your sport and your goals and cycling gets way more fun.

Another thing I'd like to touch on is "purpose" and comparative decision making. If the purpose of the athlete is to conform to the bike, in other words to work for the saddle, you're going to get a much different purpose and saddle decision making and comparing framework as a bike fitter or saddle maker than if the purpose of the saddle is to conform to the rider... in other words the saddle works for us. You approach and go about the issue in wildly different directions when you frame it as "it works for us" rather than "we work for it".

It all boils down to "are we doing things right" vs. "are we doing the right things". Pressure mapping, in my opinion, is a "doing things right" sort of thing, degrees or orders of magnitude more specific than the old way we used to measure that sort of stuff. Trying all the saddles with a competent fitter is a "doing the right things" sort of exercise, where before we even think about if we're doing "it" right we think about what we're trying to accomplish in the first place.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

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Re: Oh My Aching Saddle [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
not tri-bike specific, but applicable to tri / road / gravel, I think. I can ride almost anything short of a splintered plank of wood outdoors, as long as its fitted correctly. Indoors seems to be more of a challenge to get right. I'm wondering how those 2 things relate, should I be looking at solving the indoor situation with a new saddle, or would I be better off with using the saddle(s) that I like for outdoor riding and looking at making the ride experience indoors more like outdoors, whether that's switching to rollers, a rocker plate, a Kurt rock n roll trainer, etc? or both? or something else?


This is a great question, and I'm in danger of derailing the thread, but indoors the fact that your bike doesn't move side-to-side is a huge component of indoor discomfort. I've talked to people that used those bumper plate things under their trainers to add some suspension. I think short of that a neoprene saddle cover, or a saddle with more padding, would help.

That said, it's a magnifying issue. Anything suboptimal outdoors will be magnified indoors. For either drop bars or time trial applications the *right* saddle, for you, in your position, will help.

What are you on now?

Eric


on the TT bike I'm on a Cobb v-flow. I don't really like that one indoors or out, but I'm not doing tris anymore, so it's not really a priority.

on the roadie I'm on an old Selle Italia SLR, the original non-cutout minimalist version. I find that its very comfortable outside, the rides around here involve a lot of small rollers where you're in and out of the saddle. I've gone on 3-4 hour rides and not even noticed it.

indoors is another matter. its too much pressure on a small point for an extended period if I use the SLR, so I've been using another oldie, a Selle Italia Century. Also quite comfy outdoors (again, falls into the "I forgot it was there" category) not bad indoors, but not great, up to about an hour and a half. I'm not numb anywhere, its just that I notice it and I'm conscious of a need to shift my weight occasionally. After an hour and a half, I have to stand up a lot more than I would like.

Based on what you and others have said, I think that something like a Kinetic rock&roll smart trainer would go a long way, both from a natural movement and terrain simulation on Zwift so I'd be more inclined to get out of the saddle on small rises.

I don't know about you, but I ride a "long" road saddle that has like 4 positions. Way back for climbing, semi back for group ride chatter on the hoods, semi forward for riding hard in the drops, and on the nose for attacks off the front. I bet all that moving around really helps comfort, and I bet we don't do that sort of movement when riding indoors.

On the flip, if I raise the saddle high enough, I can make my TT/tri saddle a "one position" saddle, in that it's so high any further forward and I'll fall off the nose and any further back and my knee extension is way off. This, while OK for a bike fit, is of course going to become uncomfortable after a while and thus I have my tri saddle more in the range where I can slide back and forth a little and stretch out different muscles and settle on the "neutral" position most of the time.

Eric

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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