FYI to all looking into jerseys/suits -- I got the Castelli Stealth and the fit is LITERALLY perfect. If your measurements are the same as their website; you'll be very happy.

I've used the octane in several hot races and I find it as cool (or even cooler) than a regular 2 piece. Note that I pour water over myself frequently which really cools it down

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What about those of us that live in the far north? I'm more worried about being warm enough in it! I'm looking at a race this weekend with a temp around 50. Is it going to be prohibitively cool or does it have some warmth?!

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Shut up legs.

I would put a sheet of space blanket inside on the chest, plus arm warmers. That should keep you warm enough. But it's not going to be much warmer than doing the same with a regular bike jersey.

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Does the Castelli T1 gave pockets in the back? Can't tell from pics...

Yes it does.

This pic help at all? In comparison to regular bike pockets note that a) they are side pockets and b) they are not very secure once the suit is on due to everything being so tight. So, be sensible.

FYI, The Kona Edition T1 Stealth does NOT have pockets like those shown above.

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-Brad Williams
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Yes thanks , not even sure I would use them but probably wouldn't buy a top if it didn't have them in case I do want to use them

Great information! Thank you!

Just snagged the Pearl Izumi Octane at Trivillage for $172 with a coupon code.

I'm 5'10 and 155 (right now) will be down to 145-148 on race day. I'm guessing I'm going to have to tailor this as my arms are super aero (skinny).

I started in swimming right around the time the drag reduction revolution had just started. First came the Fastskin jammers, then the leg suits, then the short johns and long johns and finally the full-body suits. My team raced against another year-round club with a coach that was a complete disbeliever, and forced all of his swimmers to wear speedos since "nothing could be faster than skin." I wrote him off as a foolish old man. Speedo had flumes, and data, and times were dropping and I wondered how someone could be so willing to ignore science.

Now, I think we're a couple years into the triathlon apparel revolution. First, the swim skins and fabrics that reduced drag in the water, now fabrics that reduce air resistance. I went for the first wave of the technology, and bought a Kiwami. But now that we're starting to see more aero fabric options with sleeves I find myself thinking that I prefer the older style suits. I like my Kiwami, its hydrophobic properties, the fit, and the look. Tim Don wore a short-sleeve tri suit this weekend at Rev 3 Knoxville, and when I saw him during and after the race I just thought the kit looked silly.

I make things more aero for a living and I already pour hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars a year into things that will help me go faster, but for whatever reason I'm just not feeling the urge to jump on this aero tri suit deal. Maybe it's a vanity thing (I'd look queerer than a $3 bill in one of these things), maybe it's a money thing ($300 used to buy 2 or even 3 tri suits), maybe I don't want to commit to buying a tri suit that sacrifices swim performance when worn without a wetsuit over top (I live in the south where I do maybe 2-3 wetsuit-legal races a year), or maybe it's a lack of belief that it will actually make that big of a difference. I'm just hoping I'm not accidentally adopting the attitude of the old man and missing out on something big. Perhaps I'm justified in saying that this isn't "big" enough to meet my individual "watts gained per dollar spent" worth-it-ness-threshold...yet.

I guess the bottom line is that when I need a new tri suit, it probably won't be one of these, and it will probably be either a Kiwami or a B70...

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Zack,

I know someone who gained +5W with the Pearl Izumi Octane and James Haycraft gained barely any. I own the Octane and it is a really nice suit




also, you cannot wear the suit in a wetsuit illegal swim. It has to be rolled down. Alternative is to wear a swim skin or buy the Castelli T1 Stealth.


I guess the best way to examine this from an engineering perspective is:

since air is a fluid...what is the coefficient of friction for skin compared to a jersey? Wind tunnels suggest the savings are there. Since air wants to grab ahold of things as it moves past us similar to water, the science suggests there is a time savings.

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I broke down and bought a PI Tri Octane suit for longer races (still use my Kiwami for the short stuff), so far with all my testing I haven't been able to measure any real difference between the two suits. Of course with the long sleeves I have less chance of sunburn and the front zipper is more convenient for hot days, so I still plan on using it for some races.

I will say that I have measured a considerable advantage using either vs bibs and a race cut jersey, so both are pretty aero on me, I just can't tell if the sleeves are more aero.

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I've a question for those racing with these skinsuits...

...just caved and bought a Fusion Speed Suit. Waiting on delivery to see how it fits but I am stumped by race number fixation. How do you guys do it? I'm gonna be needing to have a race number on the back for the bike leg, and on the front for the run. In the past I've always used a race belt and spun it around in T2, but now I'm investing in improving my aerodynamics, it seems that's gonna throw a whole load of gains out of the window?? I want to keep the one-garment-solution but at a loss as to how to minimise this.

My other option I guess would be to send it back and go back to a two piece, plus a Fusion Speed Top with number pinned meticulously (and then a race belt with second number in T2). I'd consider wearing it in the swim (Fusion site says you can) but that's a lot of pins under my wetsuit....!

Yeah, some thoughts would be welcome... I'm still trying to progress from Aero Padawan to Aero Jedi....

I would go with the 1 piece. For those races where you have to wear a number on the bike...(who does this?) just wear your run belt or pin it. Don't switch back to 2 piece

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"
Identifiability of the Athlete:
3. Wearing the race number (bib number) while swimming is not permitted.
Any infraction will be punished with a yellow card in accordance with § 12.
The race number must be worn on the back during the bike split, in the front of the body during the run split and must be clearly visible at all times, and not be folded or covered. Wearing a race belt is allowed. The position of the race number on the helmet and the bike will be regulated by the relevant competition information (Race info) of the respective event."
Originally from: http://eu.ironman.com/...s.aspx#ixzz32SJ4E62P

I'm based in the UK, and I guess these rules apply to all European IM races as I'm not familiar with any where this isn't the case? It also scuppers my idea of wearing the Speed Top in the swim to make sure my number is skintight.

I'd have thought a number flapping in the wind would be one hell of a drag??

That's kinda my point though...(without testing it) maybe 0 to 5W better for $300 + inconvenience (non wetsuit swims) + swag reduction isn't worth it *to me* and i suspect my gains would be small(er) than what Haycraft saw--pressure drag is a bigger problem for me than skin friction drag. For 20W, sure I'd consider it. I'll never know until I test it, and I probably won't test it any time soon :(

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For non wetsuit legal swims I bought the Castelli T1 Stealth. If Raleigh is wetsuit illegal, I'll probably be wearing this on the bike

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What size did you get? I'm hoping you ordered an XS because I'm 6'3", 190ish and fit snugly in a medium.

Somewhere I remember reading about using two race belts (ie one for top two holes and second for bottom two holes). Then have this on your butt. The thought was that there would be less drag if all four corners are held to the body. I have not seen any data on this, but it seems to be better than one belt.

Fortunately in the US, most races, including WTC races, don't require number on bike so I haven't had to try this yet

Have you estimated your losses on the swim between your Kiwami and the Castelli? Do you see those outweighing the potential gains on the bike?

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I'm pretty sure that for a wetsuit illegal swim BryanD means that he will put the Castelli T1 Stealth on AFTER the swim in T1, since it has sleeves you wouldn't be able to wear it in a wetsuit illegal swim.

Perhaps...

What's the word Deitzy? I really hope this isn't the plan...

Here's how it stacks up (as I see it), and some round numbers applied for comparison's sake. We'll use Coggan's rule of thumb for bike drag/time/watts savings (0.1 lbs (50 g) of drag (at 30 mph) = 0.5 s/km = 5 W = 0.005 m^2 CdA = 0.0005 Crr)

Let's say the Kiwami is 1-2 sec faster per hundred meters than bare skin (we'll call it 20 sec over an oly swim), and that the Castelli T1 is 5W faster (0.5 sec/km) on the bike than the Kiwami.

In an Oly the kiwami-wearer comes out of the water 20 sec ahead, and the bare skinned dude would spend another 10-15 seconds (minimum, likely much more) putting on the Castelli T1 in transition. Thus, starting off the bike, the guy going with the Castelli suit would be 30-35 seconds behind the Kiwami guy. Castelli guy makes up 20 seconds over the course of a 40k bike segment, and comes into T2 10-15 seconds behind Mr. Kiwami.

In a wetsuit-legal swim the 30-35 second penalty at the end of T1 would obviously be erased and the Castelli guy comes out 20 seconds ahead at the end of the bike. In a non-wetsuit ironman the math works *slightly* in favor of the Castelli, in a non-wetsuit half it's a break-even proposition, but I think I've illustrated that in a non-wetsuit Oly the kiwami is the way to go, and certainly the same would go for a sprint or super-sprint.

Skin friction drag is simply more important in swimming than it is in cycling due to the fluid you're moving through...

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I just got a castelli body paint SR tri suit SS. I am 6 foot, 1, weigh low 180-183 in race shape (not now). I got a medium and it fits tight and should be good when at race shape.

The suit seems awesome, fits well. It is a one-piece suit in that both sides and the back are connected as 1 piece. The front is open essentially between the anterior superior iliac spine on both sides (the part of the pelvis bone that is most prominent) and allows for a quick pee without having to remove or pee yourself. Seems like it would be easy to roll up under a swimskin and put the top portion on in T1. The full zipper and opening on the front makes it much easier to put on/take off compared to traditional one pieces.

Considering I swam my fastest ever 1.2 mile swim in the Octane, biked my fastest 56 mile split ever, and also PRed the run...I'd say the suit was a success! Rappstar said he felt faster on the bike as well. At the end of the day, it's up to you. Skin friction matters more in the water but you also need to consider the suit over the Ironman or Half Ironman. Personally...I don't think I would wear the suit on an Olympic. That's why I bought the Castelli T1 Stealth. I got sick of getting sunburned and it was awesome to finish Carolina Half the same color as I started the race! I think the gains are there...the data says they are there...it's just up to you

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