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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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And Pinot is way down so why would MS burn matches chasing him? Let Yates do it, or Lopez if he wants to defend his jersey. I think Quintana was smart by doing as little as possible, especially with that kick Yates has.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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McNulty wrote:
MS has done a good job of doing very little work as a team thus far, but yesterday Yates needed to just ride his ride. Made no sense to look to Quintana. Given the tt nature of the race at that point I'm always wondering a little bit about the whole do the work thing. I think if a rider at that point with 1-2-3 k uphill to go just puts his head down and rides, he probably saves time. These jumps and follows and attacks don't really add up to much unless the stage itself is at stake. Pinot is already up the road, so get to the line as fast as possible and stop worrying about who you drag with you. They either hang or they don't. I guess I'm underestimating the benefit of following, even at 13%. In those situations I was always just thinking survival and don't fall over sideways.

When you really think about it though, it was brilliant by Yates the way it worked out. Pinot up the road is the least of his worries compared to how he, Lopez, Quintana, and Valverde would finish at the line. They are by far the most immediate threat to him. The stage win was already out of the question, but there are still 4 and 6 second time bonuses available between the 4 of them. 2 people are going to lose out if they all ride hard tempo to the line. So Yates makes a decision to see if Movistar will work, and eventually Valverde comes through to the front on the flatter section. This allows Yates to jump both Valverde and Quintana at the line and take the 4 second bonus, plus small time gaps at the line. If Yates just TT's to the finish, Lopez and Valverde probably out kick him and he loses more time to his closest rivals.

At the end of the day, if you told Yates with 3 km to go while they were all together (Yates, Quintana, Valverde, Lopez) that he would gain 6 seconds on Valverde and 8 seconds on Quintana while losing 4 seconds to Lopez...he would probably take that all day.

Had Valverde not come through, Pinot gains more time...Lopez gains more time, then Yates is forced to chase while Valverde jumps him for 3rd and Yates/Quintana come across ST...then yeah...that would have been a disaster. You could call him a bone head if that happened...but what actually unfolded worked pretty well all things considered.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
McNulty wrote:
MS has done a good job of doing very little work as a team thus far, but yesterday Yates needed to just ride his ride. Made no sense to look to Quintana. Given the tt nature of the race at that point I'm always wondering a little bit about the whole do the work thing. I think if a rider at that point with 1-2-3 k uphill to go just puts his head down and rides, he probably saves time. These jumps and follows and attacks don't really add up to much unless the stage itself is at stake. Pinot is already up the road, so get to the line as fast as possible and stop worrying about who you drag with you. They either hang or they don't. I guess I'm underestimating the benefit of following, even at 13%. In those situations I was always just thinking survival and don't fall over sideways.


When you really think about it though, it was brilliant by Yates the way it worked out. Pinot up the road is the least of his worries compared to how he, Lopez, Quintana, and Valverde would finish at the line. They are by far the most immediate threat to him. The stage win was already out of the question, but there are still 4 and 6 second time bonuses available between the 4 of them. 2 people are going to lose out if they all ride hard tempo to the line. So Yates makes a decision to see if Movistar will work, and eventually Valverde comes through to the front on the flatter section. This allows Yates to jump both Valverde and Quintana at the line and take the 4 second bonus, plus small time gaps at the line. If Yates just TT's to the finish, Lopez and Valverde probably out kick him and he loses more time to his closest rivals.

At the end of the day, if you told Yates with 3 km to go while they were all together (Yates, Quintana, Valverde, Lopez) that he would gain 6 seconds on Valverde and 8 seconds on Quintana while losing 4 seconds to Lopez...he would probably take that all day.

Had Valverde not come through, Pinot gains more time...Lopez gains more time, then Yates is forced to chase while Valverde jumps him for 3rd and Yates/Quintana come across ST...then yeah...that would have been a disaster. You could call him a bone head if that happened...but what actually unfolded worked pretty well all things considered.

Spot on.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
McNulty wrote:
MS has done a good job of doing very little work as a team thus far, but yesterday Yates needed to just ride his ride. Made no sense to look to Quintana. Given the tt nature of the race at that point I'm always wondering a little bit about the whole do the work thing. I think if a rider at that point with 1-2-3 k uphill to go just puts his head down and rides, he probably saves time. These jumps and follows and attacks don't really add up to much unless the stage itself is at stake. Pinot is already up the road, so get to the line as fast as possible and stop worrying about who you drag with you. They either hang or they don't. I guess I'm underestimating the benefit of following, even at 13%. In those situations I was always just thinking survival and don't fall over sideways.



Had Valverde not come through, Pinot gains more time...Lopez gains more time, then Yates is forced to chase while Valverde jumps him for 3rd and Yates/Quintana come across ST...then yeah...that would have been a disaster. You could call him a bone head if that happened...but what actually unfolded worked pretty well all things considered.

very true....it broke well for Yates for sure
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Pulling for Pinot out of this group of hit or miss GC TTers. He's the only one of the contenders other than Enric Mas that didn't do the Giro or TdF. He was battling illness, but he might just be rounding up into form for the 3rd week. If it were not for the crash that split the peloton near the end of stage 6 that caused him to lose 1:44 to the rest of the GC, he would be right there in the mix. His efforts for laying it out there in the 2nd week have definitely won me over.

Overall the course is mostly flat and not too technical. The last few hundred meters does seem to have a sharp hairpin and a sweeping U turn...so it could be interesting from a perspective of riders having to slow down and accelerate hard to the finish while seeing stars.

Wednesday is going to be another really hard day even though it's not classified as a mountain stage. It's a shame this thread doesn't get nearly as much following as the TdF. It's building up to be an exciting week 3.
Last edited by: Jason N: Sep 10, 18 12:34
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Pinot can do a good GC ITT and should move way up on GC. But the way Lopez and Mas are climbing it doesn't look like enough to stay there.

Kruijswijk is a potentially interesting joker. But he does have the Tour in his legs, and Yates, Quintana and Valverde ought to be landing some big blows in the mountains.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
Pulling for Pinot out of this group of hit or miss GC TTers. He's the only one of the contenders other than Enric Mas that didn't do the Giro or TdF. He was battling illness, but he might just be rounding up into form for the 3rd week. If it were not for the crash that split the peloton near the end of stage 6 that caused him to lose 1:44 to the rest of the GC, he would be right there in the mix. His efforts for laying it out there in the 2nd week have definitely won me over.

Overall the course is mostly flat and not too technical. The last few hundred meters does seem to have a sharp hairpin and a sweeping U turn...so it could be interesting from a perspective of riders having to slow down and accelerate hard to the finish while seeing stars.

Wednesday is going to be another really hard day even though it's not classified as a mountain stage. It's a shame this thread doesn't get nearly as much following as the TdF. It's building up to be an exciting week 3.

Pinot rode the Giro and did incredibly well until Froome went solo long and blew everything up. Pinot dropped out of the Giro w/ pneumonia or bronchitis.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:

Pinot rode the Giro and did incredibly well until Froome went solo long and blew everything up. Pinot dropped out of the Giro w/ pneumonia or bronchitis.

You're right. I remember Pinot getting sick at some point this summer, but forgot it was in the middle of the Giro.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
Jason N wrote:
McNulty wrote:
MS has done a good job of doing very little work as a team thus far, but yesterday Yates needed to just ride his ride. Made no sense to look to Quintana. Given the tt nature of the race at that point I'm always wondering a little bit about the whole do the work thing. I think if a rider at that point with 1-2-3 k uphill to go just puts his head down and rides, he probably saves time. These jumps and follows and attacks don't really add up to much unless the stage itself is at stake. Pinot is already up the road, so get to the line as fast as possible and stop worrying about who you drag with you. They either hang or they don't. I guess I'm underestimating the benefit of following, even at 13%. In those situations I was always just thinking survival and don't fall over sideways.


When you really think about it though, it was brilliant by Yates the way it worked out. Pinot up the road is the least of his worries compared to how he, Lopez, Quintana, and Valverde would finish at the line. They are by far the most immediate threat to him. The stage win was already out of the question, but there are still 4 and 6 second time bonuses available between the 4 of them. 2 people are going to lose out if they all ride hard tempo to the line. So Yates makes a decision to see if Movistar will work, and eventually Valverde comes through to the front on the flatter section. This allows Yates to jump both Valverde and Quintana at the line and take the 4 second bonus, plus small time gaps at the line. If Yates just TT's to the finish, Lopez and Valverde probably out kick him and he loses more time to his closest rivals.

At the end of the day, if you told Yates with 3 km to go while they were all together (Yates, Quintana, Valverde, Lopez) that he would gain 6 seconds on Valverde and 8 seconds on Quintana while losing 4 seconds to Lopez...he would probably take that all day.

Had Valverde not come through, Pinot gains more time...Lopez gains more time, then Yates is forced to chase while Valverde jumps him for 3rd and Yates/Quintana come across ST...then yeah...that would have been a disaster. You could call him a bone head if that happened...but what actually unfolded worked pretty well all things considered.


Spot on.

yeah it worked out well for him and i don't mind the tactics, just the constant complaining that movistar aren't riding the way he wants them to
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [pk1] [ In reply to ]
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pk1 wrote:

yeah it worked out well for him and i don't mind the tactics, just the constant complaining that movistar aren't riding the way he wants them to

It's just gamesmanship. Screaming and gesturing when someone refuses to pull through is like "Tuesday" in bike racing.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
pk1 wrote:


yeah it worked out well for him and i don't mind the tactics, just the constant complaining that movistar aren't riding the way he wants them to


It's just gamesmanship. Screaming and gesturing when someone refuses to pull through is like "Tuesday" in bike racing.

I loved watching it. For all the complaints of how boring it is to watch the Sky train beat the GC into a pulp with a steady tempo, I would have thought this type of attacking and gamesmanship would have been a welcome change to the script.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Not a massive GC shakeup but surprised to see Yates put time into Valverde. But IMO the ride of the day goes to Mas--holy cow, 6th, only 1:03 off Dennis? He could be the real danger man going forward, and certainly looks deserving of Contador's anointment of Spain's next great GC hope.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Good TT by Yates today, gained time on all the GC contenders apart from Kruijswijk and Mas. Shouldn't really be a surprise, he's a small rider but has a background in track pursuit and has ridden good TTs before including at the Tour to win white jersey, and at the Giro when he was still defending his lead from Dumoulin. Quintana not looking like he has the legs. And Valverde continuing to defy his age - riding strongly into the 3rd week of your 2nd consecutive GT at the age of 38 is astonishing.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Killer rides from Mas and Kruiswijk. Rigo looked awful! Hopefully Yates holds together better after this TT than in the Giro.

And Valverde is perpetually peaking. Nothing to see there! I expect a big day for him tomorrow in his home territory.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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This is setting up to be good. A few days ago, Yates could make the argument that Movistar had the most to lose. Not anymore. I expect a lot of attacks and Yates being put on the ropes. If he was someone like Dumoulin that could just ride a super hard tempo to negate or bring back attacks then maybe Yates would be okay just miniminzing a few seconds lost here or there. But Yates' punchy style is going to be put to the test. I think Mas or Lopez still has a chance to win this thing if they make the right move and the others look to Yates to bring it back...and he can't.

I just wish the white jersey competition didn't exist sometimes. When all the young riders are outside the top 10, then it adds additional drama...but when 2 of them are in striking distance of the overall it really screws things up.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
This is setting up to be good. A few days ago, Yates could make the argument that Movistar had the most to lose. Not anymore. I expect a lot of attacks and Yates being put on the ropes. If he was someone like Dumoulin that could just ride a super hard tempo to negate or bring back attacks then maybe Yates would be okay just miniminzing a few seconds lost here or there. But Yates' punchy style is going to be put to the test. I think Mas or Lopez still has a chance to win this thing if they make the right move and the others look to Yates to bring it back...and he can't.

I just wish the white jersey competition didn't exist sometimes. When all the young riders are outside the top 10, then it adds additional drama...but when 2 of them are in striking distance of the overall it really screws things up.

I'd like to see Yates and Mich Scott hang tough, with Jack Haig doing great things for Yates when it matters. Yates looks a little like the Great Gazoo in his helmet and shades but otherwise seems to be a good dude. Funny he was considered boneheaded in the Giro and now he's a dynamic swashbuckling pistolero.

It all comes down to legs or no legs, aka recovery magic.
Gonna be fun.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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You said it, and today showed that Quintana does in fact look to be gassing, while Valverde could be showing signs. Kruiseship roared back into it but he has Le Tour in his legs. I'm thinking more and more that Mas and Lopez could lay the madera in Montanas this week.
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Sep 11, 18 19:14
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Ben King for polkadots manana.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [DBF] [ In reply to ]
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DBF wrote:
Ben King for polkadots manana.

That would be cool.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Could tomorrow be ideal for a Fuente De style ambush?
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like Ben missed the break but Nibali and Majka are in there.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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When Nibali started attacking before the climb, that was sign he didn't have legs for the climb. Steep stuff not best for him anyway I think.

Don't know about tomorrow's stage, but I think the race is wide open. On Friday Valverde or Mas could win it if they have good days. I'm going with Mas as a dark horse. He seems to have ridden intelligently and has gotten stronger as race has gone on.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Great stage today! So Happy for Woods, and his dedication was emotional, I can't imagine what Him & his wife went through.
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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MTS did a great job for Yates today and he hung in there tough. Glad we didn't see another post TT implosion like we did at the Giro. Quintana is done...which means the team focus should go to Valverde. I think it was heading there anyway, but this just confirms it.

Mas looks great, as does Chris Horner...but I think Mas would benefit if Astana continues to go to the front leading into the final climbs to make sure the race is hard. With Lopez losing some time today, I'm not sure if they still will. They almost caught the break today, and if they did, the time bonuses would have really hurt Yates.

The profile of Friday and Saturday should be enough for anyone with any resemblance of legs to make up time. Today's finish looked painful. Kudos to Woods...I thought he was going to fall off his bike with 30 meters to go.
Last edited by: Jason N: Sep 12, 18 10:39
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Re: La Vuelta a Espana Threada *Spoilers* [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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surprised to see Aru come in 14:14 down after getting shredded and his whole backside/ass exposed
wonder what the mechanical was with the bike
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