DO need to replace lost sodium whilst training and racing (along with lost potassium, magnesium, calcium). Electrolytes, both mono and divalent are crucial to muscle, nerve and circulatory functions.

Great point and precisely the reason EFS contains all 5 Electrolytes. We have worked with numerous athletes who repeatedly cramped even when systematically increasing their sodium levels upwards of 1,500mg per hour. It wasn't until we offered them a complete and balanced electrolyte profile using all 5 electrolytes that they stopped cramping. Proper cellular respiration (the exchange of nutrients in the cell) requires all five electrolytes. When one of these five is no available in a sufficient amount the cell/muscle contraction cramps. If comparing electrolyte drinks or products its prudent to look at all five electrolytes.

What about Cytosport's products? I seem to be too sensitive to EFS's products (did not digest well) and Hammer's stuff just taste's horrible. I like Muscle Milk Light (Chocolate) and Cytomax is not too bad for long rides. I also like Endurox R4 for a recovery drink (Fruit Punch)...goes down easy.

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"There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness." Po "The Dragon Warrior", Kung-Fu Panda

Unless we're talking about extremely long durations (several days?), I'm not convinced most athletes MUST replace electrolytes while training. Certainly post-training.

Personally, I like both EFS and Hammer products. But I think athletes are being misled about what we truly need to ingest in training.

Scroll down to the series on muscle cramps. The PhD's who wrote this do a great job of summarizing the current research in the field.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/...cience-of-sport.html

We used EFS and Ultragen in training throughout much of 2008.

We chose these because they have more magnesium than other company products.

For training we found them very good and for races up to half IM very good. We think they are quality products.

HOWEVER in Ironman when we drank 6 bottles on the bike (3 EFS and 3 Ultragen) we got the shits in the run. Every time. Magnesium is a laxative in doses of this amount.

Has anyone else experienced this issue????

For this reason we switched to Hammer Perpetuem and Enduralytes, and have had no diarrhea problems in Ironman since.

We are considering going to a 'half and half' mix of Perpetuem and EFS, but haven't done this yet.

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Robbie
http://www.instagram.com/trisutto

You drank 3 servings of Ultragen during an Ironman? That's probably the problem, 60g of protein. That's like eating 2 chicken breasts. There's a lot more than electrolytes in Ultragen. Also, it's not recommended to drink more than 2 servings a day of Ultragen. It's supposed to be used for recovery. I use it for pre race and post race. I don't see much benefit in using it during. All that protein when I am training or racing is not good.

Alex is correct. Ultragen is not designed to be used during exercise and as Alex stated, we do not recommend more than two servings in a day. I suspect it may have been the Vitamin C content that gave you the diarrhea more so than magnesium. Each serving of Ultragen delivers 400mg (670% RDA) of vitamin C. Three servings PLUS the Vitamin C found in EFS and you can easily hit that vitamin C threshold that is not so pleasant.
I highly suggest you use the EFS drink and supplement with the EFS liquid shot if you are looking for additional dense calories. This is how the products were intended to be used.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

Jordan Rapp mentioned that he used a mix of EFS grape and Gu apple in one race report.

ClifShot Apple, during races for the caffeine in ClifShot. I'm trying to get FirstEndurance to make a drink that has a touch of caffeine, but that's always a risk. And prerace is too strong to try to microdose.

Does anyone else think it's really weird that the guy above wrote every sentence as "we." I was thinking maybe he only had half as much, because he and his siamese twin each had 1.5 bottles of each. Then again, I also think it's weird to drink 1100 calories of ultragen - a recovery drink - during a race. I am pretty sure I would have the shits too if I had three servings of Ultragen during an Ironman. That's not what it's meant for. I have one serving of Ultragen for breakfast. But after that, I would not want that much protein.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Yeah, the 'we' was weird. I say 'we' sometimes when I talk about me and Amy and our training, etc. But, 'she' has her nutritional plan and 'I' have mine.

3xUltragen does seem like a bit much.

I've seen on your report and others about the serving for Breakfast. Is that for 'easy' calories and 'easy' protein? Have you used Ultragen (1 serving) towards the end of a long ride/workout to see how it works?

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Exactly!

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Robbie
http://www.instagram.com/trisutto

Could someone who used only first endurance products during an ironman briefly describe how they fueled on the bike succesfully? I currently use Hammer and just a bit bored to be honest. The one "thing" I will say about hammer is it is so simple as far as making an extra calorie bottle for the ride. I feel using the EFS drink and gel is not so clear cut. Why use the EFS drink at all in an IM because drinking 12 oz per 30 minutes seems like a ton for not a lot of calories, is it for better absorption od salt? And would you drink 12 oz of EFS along w/ your "normal" water consumption? Maybe someone could just simplify it a little.

Thanks

Here is a pretty complete overview of what I used for IMAZ last year: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...20nutrition;#2129975

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Which hammer are you using? EFS and HEED are identical in calories so I don't know how you would change your program. As for the gel, I can't consume more than 1 bottle of fluid every hour and twenty minutes or I will have to pee to often. Also I alternate between water and carbo drink. So the Liquishot is great for helping me hit my 300 calorie/hr goal without having to take in additional fluids. Liquishot doesnt have any gelling additives either so it's more like water, especially on a hot day. I usually take in about 1/3 flask every 40 minutes and thats less than 2 oz of fluid and 133 calories of complex and simple carbs. Over the course of an Ironman bike split I will go through about 4-5 bottles of fluid and 2 flasks of Liquishot. Whether you use EFS, HEED, or the on course Gatorade, the Liquishot would be more of a replacement for your "high carb" bottle. Easier to carry and less fluid to take in, keeps things more flexible for calorie intake too.

OJ,
Here is Ironman Wisconsin Winner Amy Marsh's nutrition report.

http://team.firstendurance.com/...onsin-race-nutrition

Maybe I am wrong, or maybe I am biased, but I believe it is actually much simpler to use the EFS system.

Thanks for the info I just use Perpetuem and mix 2 strong bottles for about 400 cals per hour.

Thanks my man!

Am I understanding the product line up correctly? EFS Drink is for the bike and EFS Liquid Shot is to be carried on the run? This assuming the athlete uses run course water...

You can use either for either or both.

Colin,
The research over the last few years has clearly indicated that mixing carbohydrate sources is superior to any single source. This research has found that carbohydrates can be absorbed concurrently through multiple channels, meaning that you can absorb a greater amount of carbohydrates when you mix sources than when you rely on any single source. This is critical especially for those who are trying to absorb calories above 250 calories per hour.

At First Endurance we did not rely on one piece of evidence to come up with our carbohydrate blend. We looked at the research on oxidation rates, glycemic index osmolarity and osmolality, blood glucose and multiple channels. Based on ALL the research available we came up with a blend that uses three high glycemic sources (three channels) using Maltodextrin as the primary and supported with sucrose, and glucose.

Any company that tells you that mixing sugar with maltodextrin (complex carbs) will ruin your digestion is basing this on 'theory' that is 15 years old. There is no clinical reference that supports this statement, in fact all the new studies clearly refute this.

Olympic Dietitian Bob Seebohar reviewed all of the latest research on carbohydrate metabolism as it pertains to endurance exercise and referenced his findings in the review below.

http://blog.firstendurance.com/...of-current-research/

From a performance, or 'real life' standpoint, we vigorously test our products on the race course before they make it out on the market. Jordan Rapp is actually currently testing a new upgraded EFS drink. Our athletes have been able to complete races including Ironman, Tour de France, 100 mile Ultra's and multiple day races, many in record time using ONLY EFS.

In the end we still feel strongly that what works for one, will not necessarily work for everyone. You need to test products to see what is best for you. We simply try to make the best endurance products we can.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

ridehard, I got a tub of EFS Drink (lemon lime powder). Love the taste, by the way...reminds me of lemondrops.

Anyway, how long will the powder stay good for? I got the tub about a week ago, and have used two servings, so I've got a ways to go...but might not NEED any fluids for a little while. Currently, it's in my pantry, closed up.

Thanks.

Glad you like the EFS lemon lime. In your cabinet your EFS drink will last quite some time. Your Jug of EFS drink has an expiration date on the bottom which is likely 12-18 months from now. With all the First Endurance product your Jug also has a lot code that corresponds to a Certificate of Analysis. This is all part of our quality control measures to assure no banned substances.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

Ridehard, one other question - with the Shots, if you mixed them in a water bottle, how is the taste...strong or weak? Again, just curious.

As the adage goes, "there's no accounting for taste." But since there are no gelling agents, it should mix fairly uniformly and easily. The flavor is, IMO, relatively mild even for just the shot itself, so if you put one flask in one 24oz. bottle, which would still be a lot of calories for that amount of liquid, I think it'd be fairly mild.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I have found that diluting the EFS liquid shots down by up to 75% is still quite a nice flavor. My favorite is a diluting down 25%-50%, especially when I am out on a run. So in the small 20 oz water bottle you can easily put 10oz of liquid shot (then top off with water) yielding 800 calories and 3000mg electrolytes and have a very pleasant mild vanilla drink.

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Robert Kunz / Founder and VP of Science for First Endurance

Is there a date for when the new formulas of EFS Drink are going to be released?

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