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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [MattinSF] [ In reply to ]
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It aids my performance. I believe in it and race faster because of it and know of many who have also improved: one of those "working stiffs" who commutes into NYC daily, has two kids and went 9:40 in Kona last year (a year in which he added weights seriously).

I don't know why people can blow off their benefits so easily.

Hey, I'm glad if my competitors don't believe in them.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with Slayer. If it is good enough for the best it is good enough for me. I'll take a 45min run plus "15 min burn till ya drop leg weight session" any day over a straight 60 min run. Better yet 30 min run-15 min leg weight-15 min transition run. Feels just like you got off a 100 mile bike.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely.

Not to sound like a broken record, but in its worst aspect, I've never heard of it being detrimental to anyone. I know there is the argument of another swim, bike or run vs. weights, but a 30 min weight session twice a week can be tacked on after an hour swim if need be.. would an additional 30 mins in the pool be of more benefit vs. a weight session? I don't think so, but for those who do, have at it and enjoy!

Like I said before, the winters and springs that I didn't hit the weights regularly I didn't have nearly as much power. But that's just me... a sick bastage!!
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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Slayer, I just try to tack on 15 min of weights to three runs per week. This makes it easy. I am totally warmed up, I am done the "quality run workout" and then I just do leg weights in a circuit till my legs turn to rubber :-). It is very time effective, especially if I am on a business trip, I can maintain all my cycling muscles
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Lifting...good.
My coach lifts and he's won the Ironman! ;-)


Thats like saying you coach drinks beer and that is the reason he won ironman or your coach did ab work and that is why he won the ironman.

The point that everyone should be taking from all the research (for any sport) is the principles behind what is written, not what actually is written then ask if those principles apply to each person's specific situation. If so then figure out how incorporate those principles not the program in the book.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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WOW, how did I miss this idiot thread???
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of people here (ST) bash weight training - I don't do it myself because I don't have easy access to a gym. If I did I probably would.

What I find odd are the constant remarks about squats etc.. being a waste of time yet you watch the trailer for the new 'What it Takes' movie and what do you see, Reid and Bowden in the gym working those legs.

Don't believe me....http://www.witmovie.com/clips.php

Gordo also mentions weight training quite a bit.




------------------------------------------------------------
Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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paulo,

whats your take on this? does sergio lift?

thanks
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [bulldoggy] [ In reply to ]
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Just went back to read the whole thread, good things that my good friend The Stover is fighting the good battle :-) My views are similar to The Stover.

And the answer to you question is NO.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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"I don't know why people can blow off their benefits so easily"

Why?

Because there have been a number of studies that have been done in many endurance sports( swimming, running, cycling, xc-skiing etc. .) that show there is little or no connection between any form of classic weight lifting and performance improvments in those sports.

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [callidus] [ In reply to ]
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Weight lifting is the 1% solution. When you are close to or have maxed out the 99% that your genetics gives or allows you, then MAYBE then again maybe not weight lifting will give you the :02 second advantage.

I honestly think it is probably more beneficial for the top itu racers where anaerobic capacity is more important for the final finish sprint or sprinting up to a pack then for IM athletes.

Maybe PR and LB read Friel's book ;-) then figured they should go to the gym instead of the pool.

I'm out, time to go fake work for the day so I can catch a flight at lunch to race sans weightlifting of course ;-)

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Last edited by: desert dude: Jul 7, 06 7:46
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck,

FWIW, I think you Brian and Paulo offer sound training advice. I know you did most of your competitive training/racing in Vancouver and now live in Southern Ontario so the winters are more severe now but what do you think of running on a treadmill?

I would much prefer to run outdoors and 99% of the time I can so it's not a weather issue but is there any other benefit to doing a treadmill workout. I can think of one advantage being a controlled pace but would think you can accomplish that just as well outside.

__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Casey] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but to answer your question directly, I think that Treadmills can have a place, for an athlete who lives in a real winter environment.

I never used one, as my personal preference is to always get outside regardless of the weather. Winter is a great time to log some solid running miles and not be too concerned about pace, HR, or other issues. Just get in the runs when you can - even if it is snowy and cold. The great thing about triathlon is that if it's really bad outside, you can do other things - swim or ride the indoor bike trainer.

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I believe weight lifting should be part of training at the right time and in the right amounts, but Fleck is exactly right, empirical evdience just does not support the theory that lifting weights improves performance. Does it help prevent injury? I believe it does, and this is why I do it, and why I believe most pro's do also. I have a hard time believing that a leg session of 45min helps me more so than a well executed 2x20 workout on my CT(specificity!!). Here is a section from an excellent article that does a good job laying out the empirical evidence:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...ss/?id=strengthstern

"There have been many studies conducted on strength training to assess specificity (e.g., Luecke, et al., 1998, Harris et al., 2000, Fagan and Doyle-Baker, 2000, Bishop et al., 1999, Rich and Cafarelli, 2000), which have shown no crossover in strength gains to a different exercise to that which was trained, even in similar exercises."

Furthermore, as strength training increases the amount of contractile properties within the muscle, and as the muscle undergoes hypertrophy, there will be a relative decrease in the volume of mitochondria (energy-producing bodies) within the muscle. Mitochondrion density increases with aerobic training."

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [etocaj] [ In reply to ]
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Until we see someone take IM for 7+ years in a row that says they have never lifted and only swim, bike and run, you cant back up the statements that lifting has no benifits.

If I dont get hurt I can train more which will make me faster. If my body is better conditioned and stronger all around I am going to beat you.

Elites in cycling, tri and swimming do lift.

Read the latest issue of triathlete and check out P. Reids workout schedule.

IF you dont want to lift please dont.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [iamtikigod] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Until we see someone take IM for 7+ years in a row that says they have never lifted and only swim, bike and run, you cant back up the statements that lifting has no benifits.

If I dont get hurt I can train more which will make me faster. If my body is better conditioned and stronger all around I am going to beat you.

Elites in cycling, tri and swimming do lift.

Read the latest issue of triathlete and check out P. Reids workout schedule.

IF you dont want to lift please dont.


As Brian Stover once said, "the plural of anecdote is not data".

You are going to beat me only if you can maintain a higher speed than me for the duration of the event. Being stronger doesn't guarantee that.

Elites in cycling, triathlon and swimming don't lift, too.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Tri Fold] [ In reply to ]
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Elites in cycling, triathlon and swimming don't lift, too.[/reply]

I guess all the interviews, training articles, movies and pictures I've seen of cycling, triathlon and swimming elites weight training were all imagined then.

I do have a shitty memory, and am not going to go do research on this, but that statement is incorrect.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Elites in cycling, triathlon and swimming don't lift, too.


I guess all the interviews, training articles, movies and pictures I've seen of cycling, triathlon and swimming elites weight training were all imagined then.

I do have a shitty memory, and am not going to go do research on this, but that statement is incorrect.[/reply]The post to which I replied said that elites in cycling, tri and swimming do lift. I'm sure that is true. What is also true is that there are elites in those arenas who do not lift, as I said. That means that not all elites in these arenas lift; is that what you think the original claim was?
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Tri Fold] [ In reply to ]
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Gotcha, I took it out of context.

Apologies.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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People look at the effect of weight-training on performance from one-dimension ... the so-called 'direct correlation'. In other words, they want proof that increasing one's squat poundage from 225x10 to 315x10 will increase their average cycling speed from 19.5mph to 20.4mph [as if it we really that simple].

Someone just pointed out the problem with this situation. Weight-lifting does help prevent injury, resists muscle breakdown, etc. So, if you're hurt less, breakdown less, and can train more, you will be "faster". That's an indirect correlation.

Performance increases, in any sport, come from whoever can sustain the most progressive workouts [that's why PED's are so helpful, you recover much faster, can workout harder and more often, etc].

======================

I also agree with the statement someone made stating "if you don't want to lift, don't". It's not difficult to look at photos of many triathletes and see that the last thing they want to do is strength-train. I think there must be a lot of triathletes that enjoy having the arms of an 8yo ... but, that's just preference. Honestly, I wonder how much all of this "strength-training improving performance" stuff is applicable to MOST triathletes? ... as if strength-training has been the missing ingredient that will take them from MOP to Top 5.

Strength-training is what is ... a tool in the tool box. As we all know, the right tool must be used at the right time in order to bring about the specific result we have in mind.

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Gotcha, I took it out of context.

Apologies.
No sweat. Do an extra set of preacher curls for me.
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Tri Fold] [ In reply to ]
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Will do.

Do my calves look fat in these capri pants?
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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<< Gotcha, I took it out of context.

Apologies. >>

Are you going all soft on us now, SHB?? ;-)



I love the "the plural of anecdote is not data" line, that's just priceless.

B-Sto is the man.



But, here's my anecdote anyway ;-)

I used to lift. I like to lift. I did it for many, many years. I liked how it made me feel, and look.

Now that my focus is on long course, I had to make a decision about my time budget, and where it would be best allotted. I don't lift anymore. I still do some bodyweight stuff 1-2x / wk (set of pushups to failure, ditto for pullups), and have lately been doing a bit w/some swim cordz, but nothing w/ the big iron.

All my nagging shoulder and elbow issues have since gone away. So, I'm actually holding up better now by NOT lifting, which goes contrary to the main reason that most give for doing it, injury avoidance. (in my n=1 experience, YMMV of course)

So, those who lift, be truthful with yourself - you lift because you like to do it, like how it makes you feel, how it makes you look. These are all vaild reasons.

Injury avoidance? I've gotten hurt quite a bit while lifting over the years... and my knees are shot from heavy leg presses and squatting. Better tri (or running, or biking) performance? Possibly, but unlikely, or at least not moreso than applying that workout time to the specific sport.

[/anecdote off]


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Soft, no.

Its just this whole Britney/KFed thing that has my heart in a knot and I'm being a little bipolar..

A devil-worshiping, lifting-loving, Rutger Beke-believing, sick geek like myself has feelings too y'know : )
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Re: lifting weights = slower ironman [SlayerHatebreed] [ In reply to ]
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I hear ya.

Look at the bright side (of the Britney/KFed thing) - you have a *slightly* better chance of banging her (or him, whatever floats yer boat) now than you did before!

Buck up, buttercup. Tomorrow is a brand new day.

PS - I'm sure you look just swell in capris. And I'm not just saying that.



Now drop and give me twenty!!! ;-)


float , hammer , and jog

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