Even if you are just saying it, I thank you, and KFed thanks you.

Speaking of KFed, I think I need to renew my Tiger Beat Star subscription..

interesting opinion and I've heard all the arguments against weight lifting before. But its also interesting that Marc allen just had an article in triathlete saying that when he reached his mid 30's weight lifting was essential for him to reach his former speed (when he never touched weights). It's a well documented fact that you lose muscle mass when you hit your mid 30's and lifting is the only way to slow that down. Based on that fact, I'd say it's absolutely essential for people over the age of 35 to incorporate lifting into their weekly training. To argue against that is to argue against a biological fact...unless you think you'll actually get faster as your muscles get smaller and weaker every year.

Marc Allen also wrote that it was more important to lift twice a week than it was to get in yet another swim, bike or run, and he laid out a training plan that he followed.

So...unless people on this forum can say they could beat marc allen in his mid to late 30's without lifting, then I'm going say he's the man to listen too. He might know a thing or two about triathlons.

Okay, I'm 48, and I haven't lifted in a decade. What has happened to me, my speed, and my triathlon performance since I've skipped the absolutely essential lifting?

ok...i'll bite...could you beat marc allen's times in your mid to late 30's?

"It's a well documented fact that you lose muscle mass when you hit your mid 30's"

It's also a well-documented fact that muscle mass has little to do with aerobic performance.

No. Feel free to answer the question (and my performance relative to Mark Allen is irrelevant) about what horrible things have happened to me in the past decade, sans lifting.

hey...if you're happy losing muscle mass on a yearly basis then by all means stick with it.

Here are my 2 cents: I'm in the weight room twice a week. My goals are:

1. Work on weak areas. Strengthen those areas prone to injury: achilles/calves, IT/abd/adductors, shoulder/rotators, patellar tracking/medial quads, balance work, etc. Strengthen small muscles that come into play after the larger ones are fatigued in a long race. Injury prevention is #1 for me.

2. Core work. That still really falls under #1.

3. Strength work. There are 2 major indicators to do so: 1. masters competitors and 2. females. I think anyone in either of those catagories can benefit more than other people.

The weight lifters think I'm weird, because I don't do what they do. I'm not there to build great guns, and you won't catch me flexing in the mirrors.

and you won't catch me flexing in the mirrors.

... only b/c you do it when no one is looking. =)

I believe that is a universal thruth ... EVRYBODY in the gym flexes in the mirrors ... even when they're just walking by.

The weight lifters think I'm weird

True enough. Most people don't realize that some folks are in the gym for reasons other than getting "buff" or "ripped". Y'know how triathletes seemingly make fun of everyone that is not a dedicated triathlete? Well, those weight-lifting fools and wanna-be bodybuilders are making fun of the "150-pounder w/ 10-inch arms doing rotator cuff and core training" (preferably not in the squat rack). Everybody has to be superior to somebody else ... i guess.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

That sucks that you were lifting heavy and blew out your knees. You were obviously lifting as you stated "heavy". Shoulder and elbow injuries as well as tendon problems are common in those who lift "heavy" weights and those who lift without proper acclimation and form. Proper stretching can help alleviate some of these problems but going heavy is bad mojo.

Not trying to bash you but it is common for this to happen especially under extreme loads. It has happened to me which is one reason I don’t lift that heavy anymore. I don’t want to deal with the effects of 1600lb leg presses, 500lb squats and 600lb dead lifts anymore. Muscle pulls and tears happen under these loads and while you can still train "safe" at those loads eventually something will give.

There is no good reason to lift heavy for multisport. You are only begging for injuries.

I think what has been said time and time again is that you need to lift according to a program built by a professional that is monitoring your performance gains. For multisport it will most likely be a light to moderate weight & rep depending on what part of the peridozation cycle the athlete is in. You can’t take an off the shelf program and expect it work great.

This is the problem I have with most of the studies that I have read. They do things like train one leg with one exercise for a month, or have 20 people do the same preset exercise for a month. I am not aware of a study that has examined professional athletes over several years to see if the rate of injury is lower, performance greater etc. It is generally accepted in the professional training community that weight training with specificity leads to increased performance through both direct and indirect means in both endurance sports and power sports.

Something else I would like to add to the discussion is that weight training directly trains the cardiovascular system. It’s almost like many of you think that lifting weights will only make your muscles bigger. One of the ways to develop the most intense cardiovascular system is to lift. The heart and vessels directly support the muscular system. By using high intensity (not to be read heavy) weight sessions you can greatly improve overall cardiovascular performance and capacity to levels that you can not reach without it.

and to answer your question...you are losing muscle mass...and you have been losing muscle mass since you decided to leave the weight room in your late 30's.

I think a lot of people on this forum (and this isn't directed at you) immediately think that lifting weights equates to bulking up...which was not the type of lifting program that marc allen had laid out...and most people think they are adding a ton of muscle bulk because they are gaining weight, when the fact is they have put on a little bit of muscle and a lot more fat.

A-men

There is a huge difference in lifting to get buff vs. sport spec., core and injury prevention training.

so if Lance lost another 20 pounds last year, which in his case would be pure muscle, you don't think his performance would suffer, and in fact he'd maintain the same speed or even be faster??

by the same token, I don't think he'd be faster if he put on more muscle. But, I do think if he wanted to continue being the best in the world after his mid 30's, then he would have to incorporate lifting to maintain what he had.

"It is generally accepted in the professional training community that weight training with specificity leads to increased performance through both direct and indirect means in both endurance sports and power sports."

Really? I guess it depends on your definition of "generaly accepted"....

"By using high intensity (not to be read heavy) weight sessions you can greatly improve overall cardiovascular performance and capacity to levels that you can not reach without it."

That's B.S., pure and simple. Lifting weights isn't going to provide any 'cardiovascular benefit', except to the untrained...and suggesting that it somehow has some 'special' benefit that you can't reach without it is completely ridiculous.

"so if Lance lost another 20 pounds last year, which in his case would be pure muscle, you don't think his performance would suffer, and in fact he'd maintain the same speed or even be faster??"

Funny you should use Lance as an example--it seems that losing muscle mass from his pre-cancer days(along with body fat) is exactly what turned him into a grand tour rider.

I highly doubt that running at a caloric deficit sufficient for Lance to "lose another 20 lbs" would be beneficial.

I also think that his muscle mass has very little to do with his success as a bike racer.

So I gather you have no answer?

For the record, the last 40km TT I did (59:44 in 2004) was within :06 of my PR set 10 years before when I was about 35, single, lifting, and riding a lot more than I do now.

Sorry, didn't happen, if I can go by what I see in the mirror, and how my clothes fit. Hair, yes, but muscle? It appears not.

Do you think that lifting is the only way to counteract the effect of aging on muscle mass? Does the muscle somehow know whether it is pushing a stack of metal or a handful of water or a pedal in anger?

Yes there is a difference to both your muscles and your bones.

I'm all ears. Tell me how my latissimus knows whether I'm doing a lat pulldown or a freestyle pull.

Then how about posting up some examples of recent multisport and IM winners that havent done any weight or resistance training at all and only run, bike and swim. Lets also get the word from those professional trainers coaching professional competitors that dont recomend any resistance training at all.

Its been proven that lifting has huge impact on the cardiovascular system.

good for you...and no I don't think it's the only way to counteract aging.

The best way (as far as I know) is through the release of HGH/testosterone which can be taken through drugs , by lifting, or by doing very hard anaerobic exercise...so I stand corrected on that. I'll send you a cookie if you like ;)

I do have to wonder if there is a difference in the amount of hgh/testosterone released by the body when you lift weights as opposed to doing a very hard anaerobic workout. I don't know the answer to that, and I don't feel like looking it up.

As far as the difference between lat pulls and freestyle (as an example), I would say there are some other major differences. For instance, they are very different motions...freestyle works your rotator cuff/muscles a lot more than lat pulls. Also, the resistance level can obviously be quite different, so I would think that the weights in this example would do a bit better job of strengthening the ligaments and bone structure.

Unless you want to put on a ginourmous hand paddle and risk blowing out your rotator cuff. I'll pass on that option ;) I also know that I've never had a pumped up feeling after doing a hard anaerobic workout as opposed to lifting...so there's obviously something different going on in the body.

last (for me anyway), it takes a lot less time to do lat pulls than it does to get an anaerobic swimming workout...and I think that's a very big element when you're talking about masters athletes with full time jobs and family responsibilities.

btw...i will still take marc allen's advice regarding triathlons over just about anybody else's. It would be very hard to argue with a man who's had that kind of success.

"Its been proven that lifting has huge impact on the cardiovascular system."

I don't know where to start on that one...If you have some proof besides the tried/true Slowtwitch logic of "so-and-so did it, and he's winning", I'd be glad to hear it.

"Lets also get the word from those professional trainers coaching professional competitors that dont recomend any resistance training at all."

Well, you could start with the STRENGTH and conditioning coach of the AIS, who flat-out pans weight training for his "endurance" team. Bear in mind his endurance team consists of riders doing races of 5-45 minutes.....

You've been talking to some misinformed individuals, then, because there's no evidence that weight training will increase muscle respiratory capacity in individuals already performing endurance training. There's also really no good evidence that it will improve sustained power output in such individuals, either. (If done correctly, however, it may improve non-sustainable power output, and/or improve running - but probably not cycling - economy).

It's about time you showed up.

I have some one-legged, low RPM hill repeats to do.....