I would have given the opposite advice. I used a trainer tyre early on with my KK Road Machine, but it was squeakier and slipped more than just using standard road tyres. Perhaps there was some contamination on them but I repeatedly tried to clean them and never managed an improvement, never had that issue in I think 3 years with normal road tyres. So the vast majority of my time on the Road machine was with the 23mm Felt TTR tyres that came with my tri bike and which I'd removed in favour of Conti GP4000SII when i bought it. I also never noticed any significant particulate come off the tyres. The KK resistance roller has an aluminium alloy rolling surface. Perhaps other roller materials, like the elastomer type used by Elite for example, favour trainer specific tyres? I don't know, but for alloy rollers I'd stick with old or unwanted road tyres. More environmentally sound and worked better than the more expensive and wasteful option for me.

Interesting. I sweat a lot, and enough of it drips onto the rear tire that it was causing the problems I described (slippage, rubber streak on the carpeting) with a traditional road tire (Conti Gatorskin). So much so that I had to concoct a "tire tent": a bath towel draped between the bike saddle and an office chair positioned behind the trainer to keep sweat from dripping on the tire.

I later switched out the tire for a Conti HomeTrainer and stopped putting up the "tire tent" before riding. So far, neither problem has resurfaced.

It's been a long time, but I think the tire came with the trainer, so no additional cost or waste is involved in using it.

Actually, the first tyre I ever used on the trainer was a Gatorskin Hardshell. It was rubbish. I think maybe it did shed some bits and it delaminated after just a few hours use.
That's when I got the trainer tyre thinking riad tyres would be destroyed but I later discovered others work great. I suspect the Gastorskins rather inflexible carcass was the main problem.

I've had a Power Tap and a dumb trainer (but a pretty high quality fluid dumb trainer) for a while. I did try out a friend's Kickr last winter, before the lock down, when I was considering changing to a smart setup.

The smart trainer is absolutely, undeniably, more fun -- but to me, it's not 10x more fun. To me, it's not even 2x as much fun; for me it's maybe 50% more fun. I thought about it for a little bit, and decided $800 for less than 2x as much fun wasn't worth it, but maybe your bank account balance is in better shape than mine.

Well it does have a recent $600 deposit courtesy of Uncle Sam...

Smart trainer on its own, no cool software - no extra fun.

Smart trainer plus riding around on zwift or using erg mode - slightly more fun, but not game changer

Smart trainer plus Zwift BIG group rides and well-attended races - GAME CHANGER. I suspect most folks who are like 'meh' about Zwift or smart trainer just haven't taken this dive. It's really that big a difference. I will literally pass on outdoor rides to do these rides they are so fun!

Seriously, if you haven't done a big Zwift fondo with 1000+ riders in it or a big race where you are holding your own in a pack of 10-20 riders and trying as group to pick off the stragglers up ahead, you're missing the best part of the smart trainer. Love attacking on the climbs!

Timely thread for sure. I'm finding the Neo2T just about everywhere (and one place under MSRP), but hesitant to pull the trigger based on the reported bearing issues. Anyone here on one that has had to go through that situation, or are you satisfied with your purchase decision? Or should I hold out for a Kickr once more supply become available?

i asked Tacx about this, and what I got back was, "the incidence," of bearing failure, "is very low." Wahoo is half the slowtwitcher preference, and the other 3 of the "big 4" trainer brands - Tacx, Elite and Saris - make up the other half. but if you go to europe it's flipped, and Tacx is the big dog. this has mushroomed up into a huge market, with smart bike trainers - excluding peloton and non-endemic brands like that - probably around a half-billion dollars at retail. this means Tacx is selling an awful, awful, awful lot of these NEO 2T trainers.

i have asked again, to see if the incidence of bearing failure is small, and we'll see what i hear back. but i think with an industry this size, and with Tacx such a large part of it, if this was as big an issue as tacx faqx is making of it we'd be hearing about it. i suspect we have hundreds, at least, of forum readers here on this trainer, and i don't see dozens of them posting about having experienced this bearing failure. here is everyone's chance to post. failing that, i must take tacx at its word, that this failure incidence is low. that said, i'll report back again when i hear from them again.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Fair point. I don't really like big rides or big group races but I'm sure others do. It makes sense that, like many other things, how you use something determines how much you value it. I use Zwift for training, not for racing.

I'll half agree with this. I had a dumb trainer, and tried Zwift a few years ago. Meh. A little more interesting than just the trainer alone, but still not enough to keep me engaged for more than 20-30 minutes. A few years ago, I got a smart wheel-on trainer, and that was a big improvement. The changes in resistance made it bit more engaging, but it was still loud, wheel would slip during sprints, response and road feel weren't great, limited to 10% slope, etc. So I didn't use it a whole lot more. Last year, I got an Elite Direto X, that was a game changer. Quieter, better response, better slope simulation, and I found myself routinely riding longer than planned (sometimes running late for work!). Even before I tried racing, I had already racked up twice as many miles on Zwift by early summer than I had in the same period outdoors the year before. Racing is fun, but I could still give that up and still enjoy Zwift...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

.

You are too limited in your Zwift mindset.

Racing isn't for 'racing' - you DON'T have to go all-out for every race - you can enter group rides and fondos etc. where you can just do your intervals in the middle of the group ride and don't worry about the results. It makes intervals WAYYYY more fun than doing them even with erg mode on Zwift solo.

Your first few rides like this you'll almost certainly get caught up in the competitiveness and mess up your workout by racing it, but after you do this week after week, you'll get in the groove. A typical hour workout for me is enter a group ride of about 40k (24mi) usually not a race and of open category (not power category limited). You can ride with small packs for your z1-z2 which is so much more fun than solo, drop off and do your intervals on your own, and then if you're still feeling frisky at the end, throw down some z3-z5 stuff which is also super fun.

I also still do solo structured workouts not in an event - it's actually super easy to enter your workout in the Zwift workout creator. I'll turn off erg mode on z1/z2 but erg it for the hard stuff where I might slack off. The variety is great.

Zwift now has enough well-attended group rides of 1-3 hrs at all time of the day that it's not hard to find such rides. Pre-COVID, it was hit or miss finding well attended group events, but now it's easy. Especially with the TourDeZwift that started this week - 1500 riders on the group ride this morning! Zwift is so much better with the ample other riders around.

FWIW I pretty much never race 'all-out' on Zwift anymore, like full gas all out the whole way as I'd do in a road racing event. Messes up my training with the fatigue load and doesn't fit in the plans I'm using. So just because you don't 'race' doesn't mean you still can't enjoy the racelike atmosphere, and yes, it is a game changer.

Well, originally you said the game changer was large rides and races, but now you're enlarging it to include regular workouts. But the thing is, when I used my friend's Kickr, I wasn't racing; I was doing both (semi-) structured workouts and unstructured riding around workouts. So this sounds pretty much like what you're saying now, and I didn't think it was a game changer.

I already had power on my bike, I already had sensors, I already had an ANT+ stick. I did have to buy a trainer tire (but not a spare cassette) for $35. So, as I said, the fun improvement was less than twice, but $800 is more than twice $35. I still don't see the value proposition for me, but I'm happy you see it for you. Ride on.

I have no idea how extensive the bearing issue is, but Garmin uploaded a video on Nov 2, 2020 to youtube showing how to replace bearings in a Neo which suggests the issue may be a bit bigger than their claim of "very low."

Did you enter actual zwift events? Big ones? If so, then ok, it's not for you.

If you just rode around zwiftr, both structured and unstructured, I'd argue you are missing the best part of zwift (by farrr).

i suspect that if they did not upload the video; that if they said nothing; did nothing; ignored the crosstalk that we see here on this thread; then they'd be criticized for their silence, complacency, and lack of transparency. if you manage a brand in this day and age you can't win for losing. nevertheless, as i said, all those who've had to replace a failed bearing in this unit is free to post here, so we can get a sense for how widespread this problem really is.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Just so I'm sure I understand you, you're saying that although I'm perfectly happy as I am right now and achieving my goals to my own satisfaction, you want me to buy an $800 smart trainer and enter big Zwift events to make you happy?

Yes! Waste your money! Make me happy!

More seriously, I'm obviously trying to point out that you're potentially missing out on the best part of an experience that you may have completely misunderstood in your limited interactions with it. But hey, if you prefer your fluid trainer, go for it. I thought my Kickr without zwift was as good as it got until I started Zwifting the way I do it now, and now I can't even imagine doing those soul-sucking workouts anymore without it.

2 hrs on a trainer near-weekly, even with a TV, just sucks. No way around it. 2 hrs in a Zwift fondo/group ride = fun that I actually look forward to. As said before, I've passed up quite a few nice outdoor rides for them, which is saying a lot, as I really value outdoor rides as I do a lot of indoor stuff already, but if it's a Zwift fondo with 1500 riders, that's a pretty fun experience!

Words matter. I have no idea the extent of this problem, but it’s rather easy for Garmin to claim the issue rate is “low” or “very low” without providing any detail as to what those terms mean. It’s as vague as a wheel manufacturer claiming their wheels are “fast”.

Mine's been just fine!

They may not be reading this thread.

I haven't had bearing issues, and I certainly hope the issue isn't extensive because I own a Neo, but my 6 week old Neo 2T just died today. Garmin is sending me a new resistance unit, which I guess is everything but the freehub and legs. It seems like it would be easier to send me a whole new trainer. They called it a "serviced unit" so then I asked if it was refurbished and they said it is "believed to be new," whatever that means. So now I have to swap parts over to a new partial unit that may or may not be new, which is annoying when you buy the most expensive trainer on the market and it's less than 2 months old.

I was really liking the Neo and some of the features like downhill simulation and real road feel until it died today. Hopefully the replacement is rock solid.

This is why I never sold my KK road machine years ago. I think smart trainers are fun, but I don't trust them enough to own one without keeping a back up fluid trainer.

I was going to upgrade to a Neo2T but now I'm going to wait!

I was also going to sell off my Kickr gen1 (which has been absolutely bulletproof, but does have some power drift as it warms up for the first 45') but now I'm seeing that it's a good idea to have a backup unit since Zwifting/indoor bike is so critical to my workout regiment.

i have, or have had in the past year, 5 smart trainers. 2 x kickr (new kickr and kickr bike); neo bike, saris H2 and H3. and there's an elite direto that i just took out of the box. i can't opine about the direto... yet. but all the others have had a lot of use and abuse, and i haven't had any of them fail. the only problem i've had is that sometimes the H2 forgets how to pair. but actually solved that with a workaround.

i've had one problem with the kickr bike, and that is a dodgy firmware update. i'm investigating that now. mind, i try to get these trainers and bikes to fail. i'm hoping to find the weak link. if i could find it i'd report it to you. and, before you say something i'll regret, these people aren't a partner here. wahoo however is.

this isn't to say stuff fails to fail because i can't get it to fail, yours obviously did, and i can see why you're lasered on it, because you're personally affected and right now. i just don't like to assume otherwise honorable and august brands are lying. i'd rather take them at their word and let them hang themselves if they deserve hanging.

as to tacx users who "may not be reading this thread," i guess i have to chuckle about all the brands - those much smaller than tacx - that've had dozens or even hundreds of posts placed here when the company or the product fails to produce. those who've got chapped hides about a brand or a product have never struck me as having a hard time finding the appropriate thread on this forum on which to lodge their complaint.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I have mixed feelings on them right now. I still think they're great trainers. The accuracy is supposed to be among the best for smart trainers. I used to ride with a Powertap hub on a wheel-on smart trainer, and the numbers I see on the Tacx are right in line with what I expected. I can't compare though since my power meter is in my wheel. Downhill simulation and real road feel are pretty cool. You can feel the wooden bridges on Zwift, and I think it's pretty close to what a wooden bridge would feel like. I also like not having to calibrate. It's a little hard to give a recommendation right after mine died though. Hopefully I just got a bad unit, which can happen with any brand, and everything will be good after the new resistance unit shows up.

I like having a backup trainer, and I figure I probably can't sell that fluid trainer for all that much anyway. I don't think many people are looking for fluid trainers these days.

ETA: While it's hard to say you should go buy one right after mine died, I also wouldn't tell you not to buy one. If the failure rate was above 50%, so that you were more likely to get a bad unit than a good unit, I would imagine it would be well known that there are huge issues with these and I don't think that's the case.

I don't think they're lying. I suspect they don't know. They called it a serviced unit and I asked if that meant it's refurbished. I think the customer service rep asked someone who said "I believe they're new" and then relayed that to me. It's just not very convincing so now I'm wondering if I'm getting a new or refurbished unit. It doesn't help that I bought my girlfriend a garmin for her birthday years ago that had an issue within the first week and they replaced it with a refurbished watch. I suppose in the end it doesn't matter as long as it works, but it's frustrating because I thought I bought the best trainer on the market and now I'm digging out the backup trainer for a few days and may have just paid top dollar for a refurbished unit. Her refurbished replacement watch has been going strong for years without a single issue so there's that.

Someone did a poll on the FB group asking how many people have had a bearing issue and 10% of people said yes. I'm not sure what to make of that number because I think a lot of people join those groups to ask about problems so it's possibly skewed high. Some people probably had a bearing issue after 200 miles of use and some after 10,000 miles. Both may answer yes, but those are two very different scenarios. I suspect the issue isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, but also a bit higher than Garmin wants to admit.