see monty's post. if you're in the lead, yes, your wife can follow you, and your neighbors, and your in laws. if they don't get in anyone else's way.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

What if I'm 2 minutes down on the leader and gaining (there's just as few other people around me as the leader). Why should the leader be the only one to benefit from people following? Are the people following allowed to talk to the runner at all? Give them split info?

In Roth there was a rolling flotilla of spectators. It is super and definitely adds to the event! That si very different than a coach or family member actively pacing.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
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When I started this thread I definitely did not intend for it to become a name-calling fest. I am in agreement with you and Rudy that the group following the leaders adds to the excitement and fun of the race, for both spectators and (mostly) for the racers. Callum seems like he may have felt differently since he perceived the spectators to be against him.

But I also agree with the camp that the rules seem to be applied unevenly. Maybe if a course lends itself to this kind of thing without adversely affecting other athletes, that race could specifically allow following the lead runners? That way we don't have this ambiguity? Or should we all just lighten up and accept that we (and all the officials) know what's fair and safe and what's not when we see it?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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i don't see how the leader is benefitting from people following. and how are guys following in a position to give splits? no, they're not helpers. they're the gallery. they're a mobile gallery.

too many rules.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Can your coach follow you?

Honestly, I'm more concerned about the guys who are actually supposed to be following the top 3. If there was a guy coming up from behind this peloton trying to pass would they all just move to the side?

Also, in that second pic what would happen if either of those two tripped and fell all of a sudden? Those two dudes trying to slide into DMs on their phones would run right over him.

There's no way you can actually think this is safe.

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/4391866

Get them off the course. That shit is dangerous.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I have watched several events on the Ironman Now streaming. They cover mostly the leaders in the races and I have yet to see anything like this happening. And when you mix in the age groupers the pros leaders are often mingled in among a large number of other participants, especially on the run. I don't see how anything like this could ever be a common thing that will be a betterment to the sport, too much on course congestion.

as soon as the competitors cross a timing mat, the followers will have the updated info on their phones. they can easily yell that info to the runner even if they're 10-15 yards behind the runner.

Look - all I'm doing is pointing out that this cannot be properly regulated (as you pointed out - too many rules) so therefore it cannot be allowed.

Have you actually used the Ironman tracker? This is definitely not the case.......

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I just find it interesting that WTC allows this type of spectating (at least in this instance), but they don't want an IM finisher to run down the finish chute with a a single family member or their kid. and they make sure to drive that point home in the athlete briefing.

I found it pretty hilarious that the Ironman lead bike guy was not wearing a helmet and had it strapped to his bike stem. Wonder if the IM insurance carrier felt that was cool?

I've also seen way too much on course coaching by either bike or moto. The rules restrict it, but I have yet to be on a moto photographing an event and not seen a coach or coaches walking their athletes through the event. Time to tighten it up I think.

no. except on tuesdays. if the race is on tuesday the coach may follow. or, if it's on a friday he can follow but he must speak to you in french. if you don't understand french, that's your problem. it's the athlete's responsibility to know the language.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

What about on Saturdays?

I understand French, too.

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/4391866

Thats the thing about a relatively new sport like triathlon (compared to Baseball, Football, Hockey, Basketball, Golf), gaps in the rule book are constantly being stretched and tested. There probably isn't a rule specifically focused on this incident/issue and so they (ITU) should make one. In my opinion, its a safety concern. Sure, these athletes were ahead of the 'peloton', but if that peloton were to crash or if an athlete were to suddenly stop, then it poses as a safety concern. In other words, if someone trips or collapses and they get hit by one of these 'spectators' on a bike, then what?

I realize there is a lot more going on this thread but I disagree with th above assertion. If a coach/friend/whoever gets on a bike behind an athlete and sets the pace at ___ and says to his athlete just stay ahead of me and you will be fine, I think that’s pacing. I could make a good argument that an athlete would be more motivated by that than a pacer right in front of them.

What I'd like to know is how the official gets away without wearing his helmet...
They would yell at anyone on a bike without one before the race.

AND, how is that not a safety hazard to have a peleton of bikes on a loop course with 2000 other athletes. Yes, they are fast, but second loop SOME age groupers had to be out there. Seems like a safety issue to have that many clowns on bikes following the pros around.

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
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On this particular course layout, with the age groupers starting 15 minutes behind the pro men, the lead pro runners passed at most 8-10 age groupers before they got to the finish.

I was 21st overall age grouper, and I was behind that group. I think the only pro that passed me was the guy that finished 6th. He passed me as he went into the finishing chute and I started my last lap.

On other courses, the pros have to weave through a lot more age groupers, but this course is particularly suited for this kind of spectating, as long as it's only at the very front of the race.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I don't really know too much about this situation besides what Rudy has said in this thread and what Callum said when it was originally posted but I think the big takeaway is that this was VERY unusual and a really cool thing to happen. As Rudy pointed out, when was the last time there were 3 pros racing side by side in a 70.3/IM so close to the finish? (I didn't look at all the splits so if I am wrong don't unleash on me!) From what you said the bikers that were with that group were not impacting the safety of competitors, nor pacing because these 3 were pacing each other which I think is the difference in the "rule". If it was the 10th Pro or AGer having their coach ride behind them and giving them updates I think that is different. Or if the group of followers were impacting the other competitors.

What I can tell you is that there does seem to be grey areas in some rules. At Chatty 70.3 Starky asked about the unzipping of the top and if it was a DQ. They said yes and it would be enforced but the weekend before that Starky said it wasn't at another 70.3 (just like Kona). But maybe this will be brought up at the Steelhead Pro meeting. If it is I will report back on what is said.

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Twitter - Instagram

The bikes were behind them so no pacing. They passed me about a mile from the end, on the wall, so I could observe for about 5 mins. I don't think encouragement, giving splits etc is considered outside assistance. It did help me a bit since I got swallowed up in the bikes for a few min.

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Look at the second photo, half of them are on their phones. It it is definitely a safety hazard.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I think the big takeaway is that this was VERY unusual and a really cool thing to happen. //


Actually it is not unusual at all. Just about every pro race has people on bikes following the leader(s). It has been going on since the beginning of time(well triathlon time anyway) Some of those groups at Nice were incredible too, maybe like a 100+ riders following Mark Allen and Simon Lessing, or the couple others that took Mark to the finish..


And after all those races and all those years, no one has gotten run over by a bike, or collapsed and gotten hit, or whatever scenario some of you keep thinking up about safety. As far as I know everyone has survived the lead group peloton watching the front of the race. And I think Callum was probably making his comments tongue in cheek, you all know he is a comedian, right???

If I were to follow you and give you encouragement there are a lot of WTC and USAT officials that would DQ you for it. It seems that sometimes there is an exception for the very front of the pro race but as of now, at least, it is unofficial. Maybe it should be made official in certain circumstances.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I meant the fact that 3 pros were duking it out on the run course was more unusual not the bikers following. And hey, if anyone wants to come follow me on the run course at Steelhead next weekend I’d be happy! Assuming I don’t get a dq...

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