The bikers are riding at the pace the runners are running.

The runners are not running at the pace the bikers are biking.

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

What?

If my buddy rides along next to me on a bike while I am running in the race, for more than a couple of seconds, that is a pacing violation. Does not matter if he is matching my speed or I am attempting to match his. If he is giving coaching or advice while doing this, that just makes it a stronger violation.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

rolling spectating is the best

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I totally agree that as a spectator that this would be a lot of fun. But it still seems like a rule violation to me. Can anyone explain how it is not?

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

 At least in the second picture there is no pacing since all the bikes are behind the runners.

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

If my coach/friend/wife rides behind me on the course, and an official sees it, that's a penalty.

There are plenty of threads on slowtwitch discussing this rule. Hell, someone was DQ's for having a guy in a gorilla suit that they did not even know run next to them for like 15 seconds. Do we ignore it just because it involves top pros that we like? Having your friend ride along with you and give you coaching and advice during the race is not outside assistance?

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Personally if I was so concerned about it I would email the RD and USA triathlon and ask them

Maybe Jimmy will come on, but I would say that it doesn't violate the spirit of the sport although technically it may be a violation. This is somewhat allowed to happen at Kona, especially on the Queen-K, except they don't allow anyone in the Energy Lab. Maybe that is also one defining aspect of the race because it is so baron. Regardless, here it doesn't violate the spirit because it would be impossible in my opinion to determine who is helping who, or if anyone is being helped. IMHO violations should be given, in general, when someones gains an unfair competitive advantage. The rider on the far right of the picture is Rudy Von Berg FWIW.

I could give some anecdotes about times when overzealous refs have ruined races by policing for technically violations instead of being practical and understanding the situation. As an athlete, sometimes it is best to let the athletes play the game.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

I think this sounds generally right, except that it sounds like it was quite possible to tell, at least with one spectator/athlete combo who was supporting who. Callum certainly noticed this, given his speech, and it seems to have bothered him.

But if this is the case, how are we to know what the line is and how not to cross it? Penalty for this is immediate DQ, so playing in the grey area sounds pretty risky. I've asked refs pre-race to clarify certain parts of the outside assistance rule and they always take it VERY literally - for instance I asked that if I take my own hydration bottle with me from T2, when it is empty can I toss it to my wife or must I throw it away at a aid station trash can, I was told I must throw it away. Seems to me that tossing it to my wife does not give me assistance in the race, it just saves me $25. 2 refs at 2 races have told me that. Why is so much more leeway given in this situation? Just happens to be a less lenient ref? Ref doesn't mind DQ'ing a random AG'er but doesn't want to rock the boat at the front of the pro race where it will be very controversial?

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Pros are different man...especially male pros...

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Throw it on the ground. Then, she just happens to be the one to pick it up. If they see you it's only a blue card worst case scenario.

---

https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202

First off, no one was wearing a gorilla suit, so they’re ok from that standpoint

I’m wondering if it’s because it’s not just one runner but rather a group of runners that they are biking next to

---

Matt

So basically if I didn't like somebody (alot) and wanted them to get DQed I could just run with them for a while (whether they want it or not) until some race official takes notice? (PS: No, not planning on doing that. Its just to show how absurd this seems to me)

pink....You think that might be the reason Lange got a penalty last year in Frankfurt when Faris was besides him for 20 secs.

No outside company. Point.

---

-shoki

Two things wrong with this

1. The athletes that are on the bikes should know better than to be on the course like that while the race is going on.

3. The race officials who witness this did nothing to get the cyclists off the course.

---

__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Yes, and this get back to the overzealous refs. They could even be heckling you... Hence why, given the context of the situation, if the refs had a problem they should first approach you and ask what you are doing, not just put it on the athlete.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Hard to tell if they're "athletes" in the picture in this thread.



Broadly speaking in terms of job descriptions, it's the job of course marshals to regulate traffic, not race officials. The race official has the job of enforcing the rules of competition, the course marshal enforces the race director's intended regulation of traffic.

Edit: Unless you meant "race official" to broadly mean all enforcement personnel...just when I hear "race official" I think of the USAT-certified officials. While marshals are often volunteers, etc, with no training in the rules of competition.

Somehow I suspect you might be relatively safe from the scourge of having an entourage of spectators so interested in your performance that they want track your run on bikes. So this sounds like a win-win for you and the would-be entourage. :)

Hey everybody - we have to call off that windschatten-pacing group ride. Sorry, it's a no-go.

People having fun watching a triathlon! This must be stamped out immediately or it might start to become a....spectator sport. :)

I don't disagree. If I do not do this race next year, I'd love to join the peleton. But:

1) If we're going to allow it, we need to allow it, not just selectively look the other way. It needs to be done so that it does not negatively impact either the pro race or the amateur race.

2) Those are mostly pro triathletes on the bikes so it's not exactly expanding the fan base.

3) On the second lap they would have had to pass the top 10 or 12 amateurs and some pro women. I hope that was done respectfully.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Yeah, I agree with all those things.

idk plenty age group supporters would be jumping in all over the course if they were allowed to.

I do not see any assistance provided whatsoever. Can you identify one cyclist out of that pack off to the side or behind and tell me which pro they specifically assisted and how?

It is often stated by officials that simply going along the course with your athlete/friend/family member violates the outside assistance rule. That's not my interpretation, that is just how it is often interpreted and enforced by WTC officials. But if you read the thread, you will see that there was specific support given as well.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I read it. Hard for a ref to call assistance with a group biking near a group running. Re one pro shouting out advice, that could be unwanted assistance. The spirit of the rule has always been about one on one assistance. Ref should merely have directed riders to fall back 50 yards.

There seemed to be a lot of traffic / bikers on the run course. I was there yesterday (sort of...my racing wasn't). There was a guy not in the race on the same road (Monarch Rd), pacing an athlete (the pacer had no markings or race number/age on calf--dressed in non athletic clothes)...but I didn't say anything because no matter how slow I was going, he was going much slower by the run, was too tired to care much anymore. I can say about the bikers in this picture,there were possibly some training partners following these guys--as well as curious watchers, but no, there should only be a) medical bike b) lead cyclist on the course near these guys. Officials should be pulling these guys off their bikes if they are seen.

I did see a guy in my AG who I went back & forth with over the race, who did have a coach along the bike and run, various points even on the bike--who was coaching, giving splits, etc. Some dude named Paulo (who later cramped up screaming holding his left quad at the end of the last lap on the run). That was a bit unkind to be doing that (nobody tracked my competition & told me data along the way).

Lastly, I did have a guy I passed on the bike, dropped back 2 bike lengths behind me all the way up the hill and onto the flat. Finally turned around & told him to drop off. He said, "You pass me and slow down, what do you want me to do?" Told him, "To follow the rules!" I passed him because HE was slowing down. But rules state drop 6 bike lengths out of the draft zone, not drop back 2 lengths and draft. He got pissed & floored it and went up the road. Later to have a meltdown WAY worse than mine on the run. Can't police everyone...

I did also see someone's friend/family member hand off some food to an athlete NOT at an aid station, although at that point in my "wogging" (it wasn't really jogging even)...I was too beat to care. But I did finish my first triathlon since 2016! I'm a triathlete again!

Probably has to do with the "Rolling Troupe of Freds" clause that is afforded to pro racers but not the bourgeois.

As was discussed here a couple weeks ago, the leader of Hardrock 100 was DQ'd in the middle of the race for taking water and ice from his crew outside of an aid station.

Harsh, but rules are rules.

First, I do feel like something should have been done about those riders in the photos. I can actually see family members of those athletes riding behind them.

I partially agree with TGs comment about this being allowed in Kona. I say partially because I've seen it both ways. I can remember one year I was out on the Queen K on my bike (I wasn't racing) trying to blow past all the runners to the cut-off (for spectators) spot. It was either the last year or the second to last year Crowie was racing there and as I passed him I gave a shout out (worlds of encouragement) from one of his family members that I saw a minute or two before. Anyhow, I was riding probably 18mph, so by no means was I riding along side him. He gave me a quick nod and I continued on. About a minute up the road a ref pulled aside me and told me I can not pace him and if seen doing this again, he will be DQ'd.

As I sat out on the Queen K that year I started to watch all the coaches, family and friends ride next to pros for miles on the way back into town. Not to call someone out but that year Linsey Corbin's mother literally rode next to her from the gas station all the way back to Palani. If that's not outside support (pacing) I don't know what is, especially considering I was threatened by a ref for riding past someone at a far faster pace than the athlete was running.

So I don't think it's allowed but I think a lot get away with it. They need to tighten the rules. Imagine they let riders sit behind runners in the NY, Boston or London Marathons.

This is what's cool with triathlon or should I say "some triathlons", people can follow the lead PRO's on their bike, it's awesome, it creates a really cool atmosphere around the race for the win. If you look at some races in the eighties with Mark Allen, you had 30 people following him during the run. It's just cool. Here in Boulder, it was 6-8 people. Some PRO's, some AG'ers from Boulder just following a nice battle happening in the home race. It was nice to watch. No athlete was aided or paced whatsoever because we were riding behind the athletes, and behind the lead bike (or on the side at times). No other athletes were bothered or anything. I hope to be one of the top runners next year in the actual race, and have dozens of cyclists following the leaders. So cool. Make triathlon awesome #ericlagerstrom

You're wrong, there was no pacing involved whatsoever.

Rules are no different for PRO's, this is like saying that thousands of people cheering for an NBA team is an unfair advantage compared to amateur games where nobody is there. Makes 0 sense. It's just that 3 PRO's running side by side for the last 5 miles of a 70.3 and battling it out for the win is pretty cool to watch. Especially in triathlon where you can get so close to them.


Cell phone use is to document the epic ness of the moment and get cool content. Riding in a straight line w one hand on the handlebar is very easy.

Hahaha you are a dumbass. This guy is reining 70.3 European Champion. He knows the rules for pros better then all of you. Considering he is a pro obviously he stayed out of the way of the age groupers.

Please let me know why I would be a douche by saying that there was no pacing involved in that race since I was physically there? You have no idea what happened, so maybe you shouldn’t be commenting here.

Nice edit *douche

So now respectfully following Pro’s during a hometown race on the open dirt roads around the Boulder resevoir is having no respect for the game? You don’t know what you’re talking about. I love this sport and have more respect for it than you can imagine. What happened in Boulder was good for the sport. Keep it alive, fun and awesome. It was great for the top pro’s in that race to have people follow them rather than being alone out there. There was an audience. I thought it was really cool. And there was 0 pacing, and no age grouper had a problem with us. Actually, only the very few top age groupers were out there.

WS - You might want to read up on Rudy's 2018 race results:

http://www.triathlete.com/...rudy-von-berg_322638

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...p_his_game_6907.html

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Rudy Vonberg coming in off the top rope with a chair

I was in a different race recently and was wondering about rules about coaches providing information on placing and times during the run. Several times I saw coaches/friends run alongside somebody for about 100m and update them on their position and time differences to others and the paces of those others. I thought that wasn't allowed but I don't see any rule in the rule book prohibiting this.

Wether this is pacing or not I would be more concerned about athlete safety. How can any race director allow that many bikes to co-mingle with the athletes. If every runner participating had followers like that there would be much bigger concerns than are the athletes getting pacing support.

Take a hike, Fucknozzle.

---

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

Sounds like a win-win for you and the sponsors.

How fast do I have to be before I'm allowed to have my friends follow me on their bikes? Do I have to be a Pro? An FOPer? MOPer? Just let me know where the line is. Thanks.

i hear what you're saying, but if every athlete in the race had 20 or 30 fans trying to follow him or her on the course, that sort of engagement would be great. yes, it would have to be managed. but let's manage it when we have that problem, rather than strangling enthusiasm when we don't have that problem.

my takeaway from this thread: you can't pace someone from behind; and if those in the race, at the race, don't see a problem with it i don't see why those of us hundreds or thousands of miles away should have a problem. triathlon began as a sport with almost no rules. the more rules it got, the less fun it became. and rudy is right. in 1989 i was one of those guys on the bike, maybe 40 or 50 of us, maybe more, riding behind mark and dave on the queen q, witnessing history.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

How is this respectful? All of them are up in these guys grills. If that's not intentional and wrong to you...not sure what is. We talk about cars hitting people on course that are supposed to be closed...well now we have an open run course and a bunch of assholes with their phones out trying to snag a pic for the gram.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

So wife can follow me on the bike and it not be considered pacing? I had no idea this was allowed, and I'm sure lots of other people didn't either. This could get very interesting.

How fast do I have to be before I'm allowed to have my friends follow me on their bikes? Do I have to be a Pro? An FOPer? MOPer? Just let me know where the line is. Thanks. //

No problem, I will give you the line. You have to be leading the pro race either in the mens or womens, and I mean in the lead. So there you go, you have your line, good luck...

see monty's post. if you're in the lead, yes, your wife can follow you, and your neighbors, and your in laws. if they don't get in anyone else's way.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

What if I'm 2 minutes down on the leader and gaining (there's just as few other people around me as the leader). Why should the leader be the only one to benefit from people following? Are the people following allowed to talk to the runner at all? Give them split info?

In Roth there was a rolling flotilla of spectators. It is super and definitely adds to the event! That si very different than a coach or family member actively pacing.

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

When I started this thread I definitely did not intend for it to become a name-calling fest. I am in agreement with you and Rudy that the group following the leaders adds to the excitement and fun of the race, for both spectators and (mostly) for the racers. Callum seems like he may have felt differently since he perceived the spectators to be against him.

But I also agree with the camp that the rules seem to be applied unevenly. Maybe if a course lends itself to this kind of thing without adversely affecting other athletes, that race could specifically allow following the lead runners? That way we don't have this ambiguity? Or should we all just lighten up and accept that we (and all the officials) know what's fair and safe and what's not when we see it?

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

i don't see how the leader is benefitting from people following. and how are guys following in a position to give splits? no, they're not helpers. they're the gallery. they're a mobile gallery.

too many rules.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Can your coach follow you?

Honestly, I'm more concerned about the guys who are actually supposed to be following the top 3. If there was a guy coming up from behind this peloton trying to pass would they all just move to the side?

Also, in that second pic what would happen if either of those two tripped and fell all of a sudden? Those two dudes trying to slide into DMs on their phones would run right over him.

There's no way you can actually think this is safe.

---

https://www.strava.com/athletes/4391866

Get them off the course. That shit is dangerous.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I have watched several events on the Ironman Now streaming. They cover mostly the leaders in the races and I have yet to see anything like this happening. And when you mix in the age groupers the pros leaders are often mingled in among a large number of other participants, especially on the run. I don't see how anything like this could ever be a common thing that will be a betterment to the sport, too much on course congestion.

as soon as the competitors cross a timing mat, the followers will have the updated info on their phones. they can easily yell that info to the runner even if they're 10-15 yards behind the runner.

Look - all I'm doing is pointing out that this cannot be properly regulated (as you pointed out - too many rules) so therefore it cannot be allowed.

Have you actually used the Ironman tracker? This is definitely not the case.......

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I just find it interesting that WTC allows this type of spectating (at least in this instance), but they don't want an IM finisher to run down the finish chute with a a single family member or their kid. and they make sure to drive that point home in the athlete briefing.

I found it pretty hilarious that the Ironman lead bike guy was not wearing a helmet and had it strapped to his bike stem. Wonder if the IM insurance carrier felt that was cool?

I've also seen way too much on course coaching by either bike or moto. The rules restrict it, but I have yet to be on a moto photographing an event and not seen a coach or coaches walking their athletes through the event. Time to tighten it up I think.

no. except on tuesdays. if the race is on tuesday the coach may follow. or, if it's on a friday he can follow but he must speak to you in french. if you don't understand french, that's your problem. it's the athlete's responsibility to know the language.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

What about on Saturdays?

I understand French, too.

---

https://www.strava.com/athletes/4391866

Thats the thing about a relatively new sport like triathlon (compared to Baseball, Football, Hockey, Basketball, Golf), gaps in the rule book are constantly being stretched and tested. There probably isn't a rule specifically focused on this incident/issue and so they (ITU) should make one. In my opinion, its a safety concern. Sure, these athletes were ahead of the 'peloton', but if that peloton were to crash or if an athlete were to suddenly stop, then it poses as a safety concern. In other words, if someone trips or collapses and they get hit by one of these 'spectators' on a bike, then what?

I realize there is a lot more going on this thread but I disagree with th above assertion. If a coach/friend/whoever gets on a bike behind an athlete and sets the pace at ___ and says to his athlete just stay ahead of me and you will be fine, I think that’s pacing. I could make a good argument that an athlete would be more motivated by that than a pacer right in front of them.

What I'd like to know is how the official gets away without wearing his helmet...
They would yell at anyone on a bike without one before the race.

AND, how is that not a safety hazard to have a peleton of bikes on a loop course with 2000 other athletes. Yes, they are fast, but second loop SOME age groupers had to be out there. Seems like a safety issue to have that many clowns on bikes following the pros around.

---

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

On this particular course layout, with the age groupers starting 15 minutes behind the pro men, the lead pro runners passed at most 8-10 age groupers before they got to the finish.

I was 21st overall age grouper, and I was behind that group. I think the only pro that passed me was the guy that finished 6th. He passed me as he went into the finishing chute and I started my last lap.

On other courses, the pros have to weave through a lot more age groupers, but this course is particularly suited for this kind of spectating, as long as it's only at the very front of the race.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I don't really know too much about this situation besides what Rudy has said in this thread and what Callum said when it was originally posted but I think the big takeaway is that this was VERY unusual and a really cool thing to happen. As Rudy pointed out, when was the last time there were 3 pros racing side by side in a 70.3/IM so close to the finish? (I didn't look at all the splits so if I am wrong don't unleash on me!) From what you said the bikers that were with that group were not impacting the safety of competitors, nor pacing because these 3 were pacing each other which I think is the difference in the "rule". If it was the 10th Pro or AGer having their coach ride behind them and giving them updates I think that is different. Or if the group of followers were impacting the other competitors.

What I can tell you is that there does seem to be grey areas in some rules. At Chatty 70.3 Starky asked about the unzipping of the top and if it was a DQ. They said yes and it would be enforced but the weekend before that Starky said it wasn't at another 70.3 (just like Kona). But maybe this will be brought up at the Steelhead Pro meeting. If it is I will report back on what is said.

---

Twitter - Instagram

The bikes were behind them so no pacing. They passed me about a mile from the end, on the wall, so I could observe for about 5 mins. I don't think encouragement, giving splits etc is considered outside assistance. It did help me a bit since I got swallowed up in the bikes for a few min.

---

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

Look at the second photo, half of them are on their phones. It it is definitely a safety hazard.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I think the big takeaway is that this was VERY unusual and a really cool thing to happen. //


Actually it is not unusual at all. Just about every pro race has people on bikes following the leader(s). It has been going on since the beginning of time(well triathlon time anyway) Some of those groups at Nice were incredible too, maybe like a 100+ riders following Mark Allen and Simon Lessing, or the couple others that took Mark to the finish..


And after all those races and all those years, no one has gotten run over by a bike, or collapsed and gotten hit, or whatever scenario some of you keep thinking up about safety. As far as I know everyone has survived the lead group peloton watching the front of the race. And I think Callum was probably making his comments tongue in cheek, you all know he is a comedian, right???

If I were to follow you and give you encouragement there are a lot of WTC and USAT officials that would DQ you for it. It seems that sometimes there is an exception for the very front of the pro race but as of now, at least, it is unofficial. Maybe it should be made official in certain circumstances.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I meant the fact that 3 pros were duking it out on the run course was more unusual not the bikers following. And hey, if anyone wants to come follow me on the run course at Steelhead next weekend I’d be happy! Assuming I don’t get a dq...

---

Twitter - Instagram

Sorry for the little hijack.
Is there a specific rule in the ironman rule book that an agegroup athlete may not receive information about his/her place during the race? I'm reading various blogs of Kona qualifiers in a race which had a rolling start. Also saw coaching providing place and pacing information to athletes on the course.
I think I remember it being mentioned in the race briefing, but I don't read an explicit rule about it in the athlete guide or amongst the rules on the ironman website. Only that one cannot run with an athlete, which these coaches didn't really do, they ran off the course, shouting to the athletes.

This is mildly infuriating.

Wrong, I have a friend in the mid 90's who was hit by a motorcycle near the finish line at Kona which was following the pros. He was a top AG and he DNF'd because of it.

I don't think telling an athlete what place they are in as they run by has ever been interpreted as outside assistance.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Wrong, I have a friend in the mid 90's who was hit by a motorcycle //

We are talking about bicycles here, not motorcycles. Sorry about your friend, that sucks...

My favorite part of that photo was that people were riding without helmets and taking photos. The world is a much better place when this is not viewed as extraordinary. Unless of course they were taking vertical video which is the worst.

I also wanted to clarify that under USA Triathlon rules (I don’t have WTC rule book handy at the moment) the “receipt of information regarding the progress, split times, or location of other competitors on the race course shall not be considered the acceptance of unauthorized assistance. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty.”

This is just another way triathlon is viewed as an eleteist, insider, and not really welcoming sport. The winners, leaders, fastest, and good ole boys get to do one thing while the pack fodder who are the bulk of the field are expected to do another. It’s not too many rules, it’s an uneven and un level playing field of who is expected to follow them.

We are talking about the lead of the professional race, not a random age group racer. Two very different things. We are talking about spectators following the leaders from behind, not about a relative/ wife following their husband. That would be considered pacing as per the rules, but having spectators follow the PRO lead from behind is different.

I’ll see if I can get my mind right on this.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thank you for some reason here! You are right

Damn, that is so dangerous, I can't even fathom doing something that dangerous. Like jumping off a cliff without a parachute, or doing a triple backflip on your motocross. Lol. Seriously, there was nothing dangerous about what was happening there.

Just my 2 cents

so the pro's wife or coach can't follow? only training buddies or random spectators? what about races that don't have a pro race? If I'm leading that can people follow me?

In this specific run race course, it was two loops, and we were following the leaders for the last 5 miles of the race, we probably passed 6 athletes that entire time, very few AGers were on the course at that time. There was no "safety issue" or bothering other athletes during their race.

If you were 2 mins down in this scenario, that peleton would have been an incentive for you to chase. You could ask Matt Chrabot, he had a solid target just ahead of him to chase. Plus, if he'd caught up to them, he could've passed by in stealth and taken them by surprise. I see what you're getting at, but in this case I think 3rd place didn't have a disadvantage.

---

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

10 dudes a few feet away on their bicycle behind you on their phones? Ok dude.

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I'm not necessarily against the spectators train behind the leaders, but obviously you know that most of the "spectators" were friends of the athletes. Not just random fans. So that's not the difference. We are definitely talking about allowing different rules for pros than for age groupers.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

I understand and agree, but some are posting that this type of happening should be the norm, which is not possible under the current race structure.

The static picture looks much worse than how it was in reality. We just snapped a quick pic and put our phone back in our pockets. Nothing to worry about.

Please tell me this was supposed to be in pink

I agree, we are talking about "different rules" if you want to label it as rules (because I guess those rules don't really exist for PRO's yet in this case). In any sport, the professionals have it differently. Thousands of spectators, better stadiums, better pools, closed roads for cycling, something that doesn't happen for amateurs in all those sports. The comparison is made in triathlon only because it is one of the very few sports where PRO's and amateurs are on the same course at the same time. So I think that some rules should in fact be different, like it is in other professional sports. And having spectators follow leaders is something that I think should have different rules than for AG ers just because it helps our sport, it makes it more exciting and more accessible. Triathlon is known as an accessible sport in the sense that spectators don't have to pay for an entry ticket/ pass. Anyone can just go spectate a triathlon. Be a fan for free, and you can get very close to the PRO's. So for the good of triathlon, I think that having a "peloton" follow the leaders of the race is a good thing, and should not prohibited.

In what other adult hobby sport would the non pro be subject to (meaning enforcement would be the same) the same exact rules as the pro athlete in that same sport? Seems to me triathlon follows pretty much every other sport in this regard.

You make a good point. But I would say most “adult hobby sports” that include a pro division the rules are usually tougher on the pros than the “hobbyists”.

I’m glad others think the front of the race is so exciting they want to watch via bicycle. My wife thinks my back of the pack race is so exciting she would like to watch me via bicycle.

Why is one allowed and not the other?

I do think it’s telling that mostly everyone that feels this is okay on this thread appears to either be a pro, ex pro, or very front of the packer.

Hey, I get it, you guys/gals at the front are just better than the rest of us and you want an audience.

To the contrary, I’m a local racer who would be MOPer at a big race. I don’t think (necessarily) the same exact rule enforcement should govern my race as the pros—and not just with respect to pacing. I’m sorry, it’s just different and (I think) you know it. I have an audience-other racers; no room for spectators on bikes where I race.

As to your wife’s interest level, You found a winner! My wife gave up attending races years ago and won’t even get out of bed to see the race, let alone have any desire to bike along side it.

I’ll agree there should be different rules.

And for the record my wife could care less about my racing :)

But for the pro dude above saying this is inclusive and good for tri, I just don’t buy it.

If he can follow his buds and snap pics, why can’t the rest of the field.

I know the internet has all but erased the line between official reporting/journalism and everyday people being reporters, but maybe only “official” reporters should be allowed on the course, not just bros riding along for the lolz

So, spectators can follow pros, but not age groupers, but it can't be a relative or a coach, and it can only happen on some courses, and you can't pace them?

Sounds good.

Yep, seems pretty clear to me

 

Haven't even looked at the photos, but my 2 cents based on the comments. This won't be happening next year at the event :)

---

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

Crystal clear. I was, however, wondering how the chasers are supposed to cleanly make their way through the 'gallery' in the event they want to make it a contest. Or maybe the order of finish is already set after the all important bike? After all this is slowtwitch.

To no one in particular.
I used to compete in 6-8 tris a year in the mid-late 2000s. I slowly got out of it as I just wasn’t having any fun racing. Still loved to swim, bike, and run just did not feel like racing. It was a bunch of money to compete on some cookie cutter course that was setup so the maximum amount of people could enter, finish, get a medal, and brag back home. The post race was typically tolerating most entrants complaints about the race and listening to how people had a bad race because they screwed up their taper or messed up their nutrition. I was just tired of not having any fun and it became too roady like(don’t blast me for that most will understand!)

I currently solely race mountain bikes and a few running races. No course is the same, no bitching, and afterwards people crack a cold beer and tell war stories about the race. It’s super fun and rewarding. I still swim in a masters program and hit the road frequently but I only do one triathlon a year, Savageman. It’s in my backyard and my friends and family use the backroads to see me at 4-5 places. My overweight brother even tells how bad I’m getting my ass kicked, guess that’s borderline rule breakage. This year I did a sprint tri and had a blast. I gave serious thought about getting a specific bike and getting back into the tri game. Then comes this thread. There are at least a dozen posts that illustrate exactly why I got out of racing triathlons. I don’t want any parts of splitting hairs with rules that were made for 1% of situations in 1% of races. I want to toe the line and race my guts out. Then crack a beer and talk about it with my fellow competitors. If a group of people happen to watch that unfold while riding along then I want them cracking beers and telling their side of it as well.

Now that you've been able to get up close the action do you think you'll be more likely to support and participate in triathlon in the future?

This did not get nearly the love it deserves. Best reply in the thread.

What about if some random kid ducked under the barrier and ran down the chute with Hoffman?

---

29 years and counting

As a domestique, was it hard going back to the team car, loading up on bottles and returning to the leader up front? Can you post your power file? /pink. c'mon, that was funny

---

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

So you did Kona?

---

What's your CdA?

As a golfer and triathlete, I didn't think anything could surpass the obnoxious nature of golf fans calling in penalties. Watching everyone in this thread argue with a pro who is basically saying "use common sense" might be approaching that.

Edit: not only argue, but comment as if that pro with two wins this year was some random ass clown troll lolol