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I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow?
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It seems like espn+ has most of the Italian league?

So this seems like to be the easiest path to follow a league.

Not sure if I want to pay 60 for the year to follow champions league. Although I should prob just cance espn plus and watch that.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Premier League on NBC's suite of networks
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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English Premier League is probably the best choice because:

1. Loads of access to watch. Both via the official TV channels and streamed on the internet.
2. Loads of English language reporting / analysis / gossip / etc. It seems like half the British tabloids are devoted to EPL, the rest to the sex lives of British celebrities.
3. The football is pretty decent - loads of top talent spread throughout the top 6 clubs. Italian, Spanish and Bundeslega all have their talent concentrated in the top 1,2 or 3 clubs with a big drop off after that.



And then there is always ESPN Ocho with the Bulgarian League....

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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The one with the sweetest eye candy. That's how I choose which World Cup games to watch, at least.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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EPL and Champions League are the most entertaining. Historically Serie A is lower scoring and more defensive.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Premier league is the one to watch, preferably you should become a Chelsea supporter.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Premier League. English speaking commentary and coverage, often fun to watch, and if you're into it, bigger US cities will often have a fan club or local bar where fans get together to watch matches (non-pandemic times obviously).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]
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Just no.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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as others have said - the EPL.

The whole package that NBC delivers is really good. The commentary is on-site - not in a distant studio; and has a bit of wit in addition to being knowledgeable. The studio team is great - whoever is there to accompany Rebecca. The league also has a lot of money and distributes it more evenly than others, helping most games be competitive and a relatively high standard.

........i've been a Leeds fan for 50 years and things are good now but i wouldn't encourage others to join me in supporting them. Will take years off your life.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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Ok so it looks like the epl it is.

Is the best way (cheapest) service right now peacock (5 a month).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]
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SWEDE63 wrote:
Premier league is the one to watch, preferably you should become a Chelsea supporter.

Chelski? No thanks. My favorite team is whoever is playing Chelsea ;)

I grew up in England. Some of the clubs I followed as a kid, like West Brom and QPR, are not even in the EPL anymore. Spurs have frustrated me a lot over the years. These days I am more interested in Champions League.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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I got 3 very good British friends and we will do a weekly prediction contest. One is a Chelsea supporter, second is a Spurs supporter and final is unfortunately for him a R's supporter. He often laments that the R's are on the 50 year rebuilding project.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]
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SWEDE63 wrote:
I got 3 very good British friends and we will do a weekly prediction contest. One is a Chelsea supporter, second is a Spurs supporter and final is unfortunately for him a R's supporter. He often laments that the R's are on the 50 year rebuilding project.

How many times a weekend does the Chelsea supporter say "Quarter Pound of Rubbish" to the QPR fan? :)
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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I am curious to know your nationality and what has caused you to want to start following soccer. FWIW I am American and follow the premiership.

One of the weirdest things for me to figure out is how there seem to be what I would call "sub goals" to a teams season. And these sub goals can have a major effect on how the teams approach matches. I think the main goal is to win the Champions League which funny enough isn't the Premierships Championship. But then you have finishing top of the table, and as an American you would think oh that must be the goal of each team when you see the standings. Oh did I mention the FA cup as well. What about that one. It's important also depending on who you talk to. Then you have the Derbys. (oh did i say DER-BEE) sorry chaps i meant to say London DAR-BEES.

For certain EPL is king, its a great league and a great sport. Have fun getting into it. No commercials rule.

(I didn't even mention the stadium experiences (pre pandemic of course), very different from what you may expect... Wheres my beer?)
Last edited by: TravelingTri: Feb 2, 21 9:13
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Give me a minute and I'll ask my friends this question.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [TravelingTri] [ In reply to ]
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American. I used to follow soccer somewhat. (Played in college). Essentially I haven’t followed sports at all the last couple of years (young kids).

So I am going to be getting back to watching something. I figured might give soccer a try.

I have passing knowledge of what is successful seasons for various clubs. Winning/top 4/not relegated/etc.

But just looking to watch something on the trainer. Queuing up tv shows can be a headache for an extra 3-4 hours a week.

I am actually down for any sports that has 3-4 hours of programming a week.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Nutella wrote:
SWEDE63 wrote:
Premier league is the one to watch, preferably you should become a Chelsea supporter.


Chelski? No thanks. My favorite team is whoever is playing Chelsea ;)

I grew up in England. Some of the clubs I followed as a kid, like West Brom and QPR, are not even in the EPL anymore. Spurs have frustrated me a lot over the years. These days I am more interested in Champions League.

The Baggies are back!
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
The one with the sweetest eye candy. That's how I choose which World Cup games to watch, at least.

I think the wife agrees, though she won't admit it. The staring and drooling pretty much gives it away.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Premier League for sure.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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according to my QPR friend based on the latest results the blues fan would be saying that a fair bit.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Tri2gohard] [ In reply to ]
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Tri2gohard wrote:
Nutella wrote:
SWEDE63 wrote:
Premier league is the one to watch, preferably you should become a Chelsea supporter.


Chelski? No thanks. My favorite team is whoever is playing Chelsea ;)

I grew up in England. Some of the clubs I followed as a kid, like West Brom and QPR, are not even in the EPL anymore. Spurs have frustrated me a lot over the years. These days I am more interested in Champions League.


The Baggies are back!

Oh, you are right! Bottom of the table but they are there. Playing Spurs this weekend.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Here is my primer:

EPL - Most parity (the Big 6), tends to be the more intense/end-to-end, many rivalries, not always beautiful soccer often times down to fixture congestion, and too much park the bus soccer in big games.

La Liga - Really a three team league (Real, Barca, Athelti), home to some of the greatest in the game, the most beautiful soccer at times, intense rivalries, detraction is the public bullshit between the boards/coaches/players, but Messi

Serie A - It's really a four team league (Milan, Inter, Juve, Roma), very spirited rivalries, lots of falling down/flailing/gamesmanship, big games tend to live up to billing but sometimes are marred by professional fouling, too many PKs

Bundesliga - Bayern and everyone else, some really nice flowing soccer and high scoring games, but hard to get excited when Bayern is often times well out of touch halfway through a season.

League MX - Chaos, spirited rivalries, lots of falling down/flailing/gamesmanship, big games are intense and generally live up to their billing, just fun to watch if not always the best soccer

MLS - General parity outside of a handful of bottom dwellers, improving due to the quality of strikers/midfielders coming into the league offset by the export of exciting youngsters, a little disjointed at times, but easier to connect to the players
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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rich_m wrote:
as others have said - the EPL.

The whole package that NBC delivers is really good. The commentary is on-site - not in a distant studio; and has a bit of wit in addition to being knowledgeable. The studio team is great - whoever is there to accompany Rebecca. The league also has a lot of money and distributes it more evenly than others, helping most games be competitive and a relatively high standard.

........i've been a Leeds fan for 50 years and things are good now but i wouldn't encourage others to join me in supporting them. Will take years off your life.

Another nod for EPL here. NBC does such a good job with it and Rebecca Lowe is one of the best studio hosts for any sport.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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I hate football..............
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Years ago I would have agreed with you. There probably wasn't a bigger hater of football. Then my British friends took me to see Chelsea play the Mexican national team at Jerry World in Arlington. To see the skill the players possessed amazed me then and continues to amaze me. I was able to see the Blues play a few summers ago at the Rose Bowl versus Liverpool and my love of the Blues began. I was able to tour Stamford Bridge a couple summers ago and was amazed how a stadium was squeezed into a neighborhood. Next goal is to see them play at Stamford Bridge once we rid ourselves of Covid.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Ok so it looks like the epl it is.

Is the best way (cheapest) service right now peacock (5 a month).

I never played or anything and just randomly started watching EPL about a decade ago just by catching it on TV. Now it's pretty much the only sport I watch regularly.

NBCsports is going away at some point so more games will probably be on Peacock.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]
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can be hard to get tickets to many of the EPL games, but if you have visited the bridge you probably know that already. Need to plan ahead and become a member to get a chance to buy tickets because most don't make it to general sale. We tried to get tickets to a chelsea game when we were in the UK a couple of year ago but it didn't work out. Ended up at West Ham v Burnley at the olympic stadium on Bobby Moore appreciation day. The day Mark Noble rugby tackled a fan who ran on the pitch. A great and relatively inexpensive day out.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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My friend who is a Spurs supporter seems to always be able to get tickets when he is back. I'll have to see how he manages to get them. He had tickets last season to take his Dad (an Arsenal supporter) to an Arsenal match. He had to cancel the trip due to Covid, I don't think he ever got his money back.

I can only imagine how great the atmosphere must be at any EPL match.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Nutella wrote:
SWEDE63 wrote:
Premier league is the one to watch, preferably you should become a Chelsea supporter.


Chelski? No thanks. My favorite team is whoever is playing Chelsea ;)

I grew up in England. Some of the clubs I followed as a kid, like West Brom and QPR, are not even in the EPL anymore. Spurs have frustrated me a lot over the years. These days I am more interested in Champions League.

As a kid, I followed Derby County. They've since dropped waaaaaaaay into lower divisions and if it weren't for Rooney getting involved recently I doubt there would be any news beyond local interest.

Once in awhile I also look up the standings across all divisions just to see if I recognize any teams that have had a few relegations since when I followed soccer closer back in the day..... Coventry, Nottingham Forest are a couple of other teams that I remember.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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The EPL probably has the highest level of play these days, where any pairing can be a good game.... ;

If it's not Barcelona or Real Madrid, there's not much to La Liga.... (this year, Suarez makes Atletico worth watching).

Hard to find enough Serie A games regularly.

Mexican league and South American league games can be fun to watch for the drama, fights, and cards if you're into that sort of thing.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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Derby got to the play-off final in 2019 when Lampard was the manager (beating Leeds on the way to the final) - so only had to beat Villa to get into the EPL. Not going to happen this year but they are a relatively big club for the second tier so could be back soon.

i remember their 2 league titles in 72 and 75.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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rich_m wrote:
Derby got to the play-off final in 2019 when Lampard was the manager (beating Leeds on the way to the final) - so only had to beat Villa to get into the EPL. Not going to happen this year but they are a relatively big club for the second tier so could be back soon.

i remember their 2 league titles in 72 and 75.

... you must be as old as I feel :-)
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
sosayusall wrote:
Ok so it looks like the epl it is.

Is the best way (cheapest) service right now peacock (5 a month).


I never played or anything and just randomly started watching EPL about a decade ago just by catching it on TV. Now it's pretty much the only sport I watch regularly.

NBCsports is going away at some point so more games will probably be on Peacock.



Not quite, about 2/3 of the good matches are on NBCSN/NBC, the rest are on Peacock. Peacock is NBC’s way to squeeze a few extra bucks a month from fans.



40-Tude wrote:
The EPL probably has the highest level of play these days, where any pairing can be a good game.... ;

If it's not Barcelona or Real Madrid, there's not much to La Liga.... (this year, Suarez makes Atletico worth watching).

Hard to find enough Serie A games regularly.

Mexican league and South American league games can be fun to watch for the drama, fights, and cards if you're into that sort of thing.


All Serie A matches and all Bundesliga matches are on Espn+ ($6/ month)

Serie A had been a one-horse race for the past 8 years, but this year, the Zlatan has propelled them up the table (aka standings), and there’s an actual title race.
Last edited by: echappist: Feb 2, 21 14:15
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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As others have said the EPL, I'll add in the Bundesliga as well, but that is secondary.

Great ready to be hooked, it is set up much better than the NFL and especially that crap MLS in the US.

Avoid picking a top-6 team and follow a teams path that is mid-tier as they maneuver around relegation/promotion. My personal team is the Wolverhampton Wolves.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Nutella] [ In reply to ]
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Got one for you, Peter Crouch was once asked what he would be if he weren't a footballer? And his response was........?
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]
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SWEDE63 wrote:
Got one for you, Peter Crouch was once asked what he would be if he weren't a footballer? And his response was........?


A virgin, iirc

That man has a good sense of humor, and he can do it on a cold, rainy night in Stoke, too
Last edited by: echappist: Feb 2, 21 14:57
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Very good, it does take a good sense of humor to come up with that on the fly.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [907Tri] [ In reply to ]
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907Tri wrote:
Avoid picking a top-6 team and follow a teams path that is mid-tier as they maneuver around relegation/promotion. My personal team is the Wolverhampton Wolves.

A friend of mine did this when he was living in London for work in the early-mid 2000’s and latched onto Crystal Palace. When they moved up to the Premier League a few years back he was like a kid on Christmas morning.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
SWEDE63 wrote:
Got one for you, Peter Crouch was once asked what he would be if he weren't a footballer? And his response was........?


A virgin, iirc

That man has a good sense of humor, and he can do it on a cold, rainy night in Stoke, too

His podcast is pretty good, if you haven't heard it.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [907Tri] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
echappist wrote:
SWEDE63 wrote:
Got one for you, Peter Crouch was once asked what he would be if he weren't a footballer? And his response was........?


A virgin, iirc

That man has a good sense of humor, and he can do it on a cold, rainy night in Stoke, too


His podcast is pretty good, if you haven't heard it.


I bet it’s a riot (in a good way). Def seem more likable than some of the other guests they have a Match of the Day on BBC, the latter of whom continue to take things too seriously after retirement. Also, speaking of MotD, if anyone wants to know the origin of the nom de plume of poster Alan Shearer, you’ll find out all about it on MotD

907Tri wrote:
As others have said the EPL, I'll add in the Bundesliga as well, but that is secondary.

Great ready to be hooked, it is set up much better than the NFL and especially that crap MLS in the US.

Avoid picking a top-6 team and follow a teams path that is mid-tier as they maneuver around relegation/promotion. My personal team is the Wolverhampton Wolves.


[half trolling]
Does either Tottenham or Leicester count?
[/half trolling]

The former will likely finish outside of top-6; the latter has a good chance of making it after years of misery (the one very special year aside)

Jest aside, Villa and dirty Leeds under Bielsa are perhaps the more likable sides, especially Leeds. That said, i only started watching footie five years ago and am not as familiar with some of the antics that earned the club the “Dirt Leeds†moniker

Also, whatever one picks, it would be best if it were not Burnley. The club was the target of a leveraged buy-out and has gone from having ~35m £ in the bank to being ~60m £ in debt.
Last edited by: echappist: Feb 3, 21 5:42
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Not going to rehash what others above have said. Lots of good advice above.

Me, I follow Liverpool and have for most of my life. Family still in England and grandparents lived in the Wirral so picked them up as a young lad.

If you are close to an MLS team, go to a match. The stadiums are smaller and intimate and really hardly have a bad seat in them. And the prices are pretty darn good even if the level of play isn't yet up to those of other international leagues.....yet.

And if you want to follow a team that is "up and coming" in Germany, check out FC Union Berlin. I was lucky enough to go to a match there while on a work trip in 2016 when they were still in Bundesliga 2 and got to see Bobby Wood (plays on US Mens National Team) and score 2 goals against FSV Frankfurt. They are a smaller club but have a FANTASTIC story.

Either way, welcome to the club. Wife and I are sports junkies but there isn't another sport that can get me from the depth of depression to the pinnacle of ecstasy in a matter of seconds. See Landon Donovan's goal versus Algeria at the 2010 World Cup. I was hyperventilating and shaking after he scored. To me it is a fantastic sport.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Do most people follow a club? Or just watch the game of the week?

I feel at this point a club would get me most invested and easiest to follow.

I am thinking of following crystal palace.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [TravelingTri] [ In reply to ]
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TravelingTri wrote:
I am curious to know your nationality and what has caused you to want to start following soccer. FWIW I am American and follow the premiership.

One of the weirdest things for me to figure out is how there seem to be what I would call "sub goals" to a teams season. And these sub goals can have a major effect on how the teams approach matches. I think the main goal is to win the Champions League which funny enough isn't the Premierships Championship. But then you have finishing top of the table, and as an American you would think oh that must be the goal of each team when you see the standings. Oh did I mention the FA cup as well. What about that one. It's important also depending on who you talk to. Then you have the Derbys. (oh did i say DER-BEE) sorry chaps i meant to say London DAR-BEES.

For certain EPL is king, its a great league and a great sport. Have fun getting into it. No commercials rule.

(I didn't even mention the stadium experiences (pre pandemic of course), very different from what you may expect... Wheres my beer?)


Do you realise when Notts Forest play Derby it's the Derby derby ? (A darby darby
đŸ˜)
Last edited by: BobAjobb: Feb 3, 21 15:19
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Do most people follow a club? Or just watch the game of the week?

I feel at this point a club would get me most invested and easiest to follow.

I am thinking of following crystal palace.


I have no connection to England (or Britain) and started by watching Match of the Day (BBC's wrap-up of a matchday's action, one show for Saturday's matches, and one for Sunday's). The more advanced fan may scoff at the show, but I found it helpful in at least providing guidance on what other than goals to pay attention to. The next year, I was basically watching whatever large-ish match was on NBC and supplementing those matches with MotD. There are the obvious ones: any match between the current "big six" of Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd., Chelsea, Arsenal, and Tottenham. Due to my personal worldview, there are a few teams I would never root for, so I'd often sneak a peak when a mid-table or bottom-table team is running the likes of Chelsea or Man City close. I'm not sure if there's an U.S. equivalent of MotD, but I felt that show really helped with my appreciation of the game.

Palace is a good mid-table team with a fighting spirit, although one could say that it's main star is a bit mercurial. Its head coach is a tad old fashioned, but he has a no-nonsense attitude, and the team can play in a style that is pleasing-to-the-eyes (unlike the teams that almost always play hoof ball). A few years ago, the team was even competing in the final match of the FA Cup (whose knock-out format is much more familiar to American sports fans).

The only caveat for following a mid-table team is that without some other meaningful connection to the team (parents/ spouse/ kids lived/lives there, etc.), a lot of stuff might be quite hard to stomach. Some mid-table teams may languish for matches without scoring, never mind winning, although the same was also true of Liverpool very recently. Managers come and go, and a team's playing style follows. What was once a prosperous mid-table team might see a sudden decline in form and get relegated, etc. It's not pretty much of the time, and just when you think your team is safely mid-table, the next year the team goes down (see Stoke City, West Brom, and Bournemouth).
Last edited by: echappist: Feb 3, 21 17:01
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Is there a league where they don’t look like they got shot when they stub their toe?

I try to watch soccer and normally last 5 minutes before someone is on the ground acting like they’re dying and I can’t watch it anymore.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Grantbot21] [ In reply to ]
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I like to watch my 18 year old son play.

No one, on any of the teams, pulls any of that flopping shit.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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I played up until high school and then switched to hockey. I do like watching soccer, but the fake injuries and flopping baloney make it unwatchable for me. Maybe it’s from playing hockey but you’d get benched and then punched in the face if you did that crap.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Do most people follow a club? Or just watch the game of the week?


I feel at this point a club would get me most invested and easiest to follow.

I am thinking of following crystal palace.


Not sure how anyone lands on a club or team to follow without some formative moment(s), but I would say that the Eagles is a decent one to follow. Good history and a real quality player in Zaha (out injured now, but...) And, if there is only one reason to follow them, it would be for their anthem that they belt out from the Holmesdale end at the start of each home match, and also after ... when they win, of course. One of my best friend's family is from Croydon, and we went there to visit once. We got to walk the pitch. Like a lot of clubs in England, there's a very close knit connection between the club and the community, and I got to feel it while there.

Enjoy!!



Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Might be showing my age here but I remember when Palace were billed as the "Team of the 80s" - managed by Terry Venables, who went on to become England manager.

They never did quite make it....
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Grantbot21] [ In reply to ]
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Grantbot21 wrote:
Is there a league where they don’t look like they got shot when they stub their toe?

I try to watch soccer and normally last 5 minutes before someone is on the ground acting like they’re dying and I can’t watch it anymore.

No, because it works too often.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
All Serie A matches and all Bundesliga matches are on Espn+ ($6/ month)


I remember watching Soccer Made In Germany on our Public Broadcasting station when I was in High School - it always seemed it was Bayern Munich vs. somebody else, so there was Gerd MĂ¼ller, Sepp Maier and Franz Beckenbauer on TV every week

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Tri2gohard] [ In reply to ]
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City tops the Reds without De Bruyne or Aguero.

Alone at the top, it certainly looks like the title is theirs to lose.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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I have started watching the epl on peacock. They have all the games. And also 10 minute highlights per game for each team.

I have enjoyed watching the highligh sections for a couple of teams this last week.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Tri2gohard] [ In reply to ]
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Tri2gohard wrote:
City tops the Reds without De Bruyne or Aguero.

Alone at the top, it certainly looks like the title is theirs to lose.

That was a royal thumping... LFC running on fumes

sosayusall wrote:
I have started watching the epl on peacock. They have all the games. And also 10 minute highlights per game for each team.

I have enjoyed watching the highligh sections for a couple of teams this last week.

Only downsides are that 1) not all of the games are live (e.g. Peacock will have replay of today's LFC v Man. City match, but the live one was on NBCSN) and 2) the highlights often get uploaded onto youtube before getting uploaded onto Peacock
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I have been watching for a month on peacock now. Some of my thoughts. 1) man city has to be the best team of all time. They are awesome to watch. Except they make everyone else seem like a Jv team. 2) gungedom (man city number 8) has to be the best player of all time. 3) on top of man city I have been watching Leeds United. They seem like a fun team.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
I have been watching for a month on peacock now. Some of my thoughts. 1) man city has to be the best team of all time. They are awesome to watch. Except they make everyone else seem like a Jv team. 2) gungedom (man city number 8) has to be the best player of all time. 3) on top of man city I have been watching Leeds United. They seem like a fun team.

1) Just in recent years, and with Pep at the helm. There's a couple of documentaries on Man Cities championship run. I forget the year, but it was the season that came down to the final minutes and only when Aguero scored in the waning minutes to secure the title were things locked in. Prior to that year, ManCity always had the perception amongst their own fans that they always find a way to screw it up... and rivals Man Utd would end up higher or on top.

2). I think it's De Bruyn on that them for me. Gungedom did badly flub a penalty recently too. Forgot who they were playing, but he made up for it later by scoring twice.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
I have been watching for a month on peacock now. Some of my thoughts. 1) man city has to be the best team of all time. They are awesome to watch. Except they make everyone else seem like a Jv team. 2) gungedom (man city number 8) has to be the best player of all time. 3) on top of man city I have been watching Leeds United. They seem like a fun team.

I'm sorry to be a bit harsh here (on second thought, I'm not), but you should hold your pronouncements until you've known more about football and understand a) how Man City stacks up against some real world beaters and b) how Man City can look so good right now. It's okay, I once made similarly nonsensical comments when I first followed soccer (calling Watford "very good" solely on the basis of its position on the table, without at all realizing how inane my statement was). You should look up some of the actual all time greats:

-Amsterdam Ajax of the early 1970's, coached by Rinus Michels and led by a certain Johan Cruijff (forever memorialized by the eponymously named skill move). The tactical planning of Michel (a style since known as "Total Football") and the technical dexterity of Cruijff (and his teammates) led that squad to three consecutive European Cup (now known as the Champion's League). That squad completely modernized the way football is played. Cruijff went on to coach Barcelona to its first European Cup in 1992, and the holding midfielder of that squad was none other than a certain Josep Guardiola. But Cruijff had a longer term effect on Barcelona as well, as he laid the foundation to Barça's academy (see below).
-Bayern MĂ¼nchen of the mid 1970's. Nothing era defining in terms of tactics, but this was an awfully good squad led by some all time greats. Players such as Beckenbauer, Hoeness, Rummenigge, and MĂ¼ller. The second squad to three-peat.
-Arrigo Sacchi's AC Milan of the late 1980's. That squad may have won only two European Cups, but it played in a way that revolutionized Italian football (aka Calcio). Up til then, Italian football was known to be a very defensively-minded affair, with few goals. Sacchi changed that. It was led by the second golden Dutch generation of Gullit, Rijkaard, and van Basten.
-Barcelona of the late noughts, as epitomized by the squad that won the 2009 Champions League. Barcelona had a pretty decent first decade prior to that, winning a Champions League under the aforementioned Rijkaard in 2006, but it was to revolutionize football in a profound manner not seen since the Ajax squad of the early 1970's. Under the guidance of Guardiola (his first year at the helm), a few generational talents from Barça's academy (Xavi, Iniesta, and Messi), aided by other top talents from the same academy (Puyols, Pique, and Busquets), completely changed the way the game was played, eschewing physicality and playing with short, accurate passing that not only mesmerized but also led to goals. Though the team under Guardiola won only one Champions League, this was as untouchable as a modern squad got. Furthermore, five of the six players above also formed the core of the Spanish National team, which played a very similar style and managed to win two European Championships and one World Cup.

The present Man City squad, who will almost certainly win the league and will be a strong contender for the Champions League, pales in comparison when compared to any of the four above.

And then there's the dirty secret about Man City, which is that it is a PR project aided almost exclusively by oil money, aimed to improve the perception of Abu Dhabi. Man City is one of the few teams in Europe capable of having its second best 11 players also be world class, and much of that is down to the enormous spending enabled by money from Abu Dhabi. Especially in a season with a schedule more congested than usual, having bench players who are on par with starters on other teams keeps the team fresh. That said, credit where it's due for the development of some of those players (Garcia, Foden, and Sterling), as Guardiola has had a direct effect in coaching those players to their current lofty levels (though it has to be said that Man City paid 50 Mil pounds to sign Sterling), but that squad is mostly made of players for whose service Man City paid tens of millions in transfer fees. Over the long-run, stocking a squad with really good players (financed in a way not available to any other team except PSG) will lead to superior results, especially coached by someone as good as Guardiola.

Just look at the following list (from yesterday's Champions League match):
Substitutes
  • 5 Stones
  • 10 Aguero (s 80')
  • 11 Zinchenko
  • 13 Steffen
  • 17 De Bruyne
  • 21 Torres (s 80')
  • 22 Mendy
  • 25 Fernandinho
  • 26 Mahrez (s 69')
  • 33 Carson
  • 50 Garcia
  • 69 Doyle

Swap Zinchenko or Mendy for Cancello (b/c otherwise there isn't a right back amongst the subs), and you have the following for substitutes:
-defense: Cancello, Garcia, Stones, Mendy (177 mil. Euros in transfer fees)
De Bruyne, Fernandinho, (116 mil. Euros)
Mahrez, Aguero, Torres (131 mil. Euros)
40-Tude wrote:
sosayusall wrote:
I have been watching for a month on peacock now. Some of my thoughts. 1) man city has to be the best team of all time. They are awesome to watch. Except they make everyone else seem like a Jv team. 2) gungedom (man city number 8) has to be the best player of all time. 3) on top of man city I have been watching Leeds United. They seem like a fun team.

1) Just in recent years, and with Pep at the helm. There's a couple of documentaries on Man Cities championship run. I forget the year, but it was the season that came down to the final minutes and only when Aguero scored in the waning minutes to secure the title were things locked in. Prior to that year, ManCity always had the perception amongst their own fans that they always find a way to screw it up... and rivals Man Utd would end up higher or on top.

2). I think it's De Bruyn on that them for me. Gungedom did badly flub a penalty recently too. Forgot who they were playing, but he made up for it later by scoring twice.

Re: 1) that was with Mancini at the helm, but certainly after Sheikh Mansour took over. Before that takeover and during the Premier League era, City even briefly played on the third level on English football (as in, bad enough to get relegated from the second tier).

Re: 2) that was against Liverpool last month. Also, his name is rendered as Gundogan (or GĂ¼ndoÄŸan if you really want to be precise)
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
...
40-Tude wrote:
1) Just in recent years, and with Pep at the helm. There's a couple of documentaries on Man Cities championship run. I forget the year, but it was the season that came down to the final minutes and only when Aguero scored in the waning minutes to secure the title were things locked in. Prior to that year, ManCity always had the perception amongst their own fans that they always find a way to screw it up... and rivals Man Utd would end up higher or on top.

2). I think it's De Bruyn on that them for me. Gungedom did badly flub a penalty recently too. Forgot who they were playing, but he made up for it later by scoring twice.


Re: 1) that was with Mancini at the helm, but certainly after Sheikh Mansour took over. Before that takeover and during the Premier League era, City even briefly played on the third level on English football (as in, bad enough to get relegated from the second tier).

Re: 2) that was against Liverpool last month. Also, his name is rendered as Gundogan (or GĂ¼ndoÄŸan if you really want to be precise)

Yes, it was w/Mancini and prior to Pep. Appreciate the correction there.

Also agree that unlike the other clubs you mentioned ManCity doesn't have the long history of excellence (yet?) as the other clubs you mentioned. But to fans picking up the sport now, it can be hard to imagine ManCity not good, since they are so good currently. The storied clubs that you mentioned had excellence sustained over generations of fans which is very cool. I wonder whether the huge sums of money being spent today by some clubs can lead to the kind of multi-generational excellence. As in Emirates money at ManCity, or Abramovich money at Chelsea. Well, Chelsea is seeing a few issues this season. Hopefully success doesn't only last as long as an owner feels like spending.

Gundogan isn't as up there for me (regardless of spelling). For me, there are some games that I'll tune in for specific players -- De Bruyn for the passing game; Mbappe on any breakaway or in the penalty box; Suarez, can still find a way to score; Neymar on ball skill (though lately he's hacked, or flopped before he can get going); Ronaldo, anything really; Pulisic on the ball (if he goes to Bayern, hopefully he gets playing time as that's a loaded team); Pique for defensive positioning; Messi, also anything. But lately, Messi seems to be just walking around more.... Not as bad as Valderamma at the end of his career... walk 5 paces... one touch pass.... walk 5 paces... another one touch pass, repeat ad nauseum.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:

Also agree that unlike the other clubs you mentioned ManCity doesn't have the long history of excellence (yet?) as the other clubs you mentioned. But to fans picking up the sport now, it can be hard to imagine ManCity not good, since they are so good currently. The storied clubs that you mentioned had excellence sustained over generations of fans which is very cool. I wonder whether the huge sums of money being spent today by some clubs can lead to the kind of multi-generational excellence. As in Emirates money at ManCity, or Abramovich money at Chelsea. Well, Chelsea is seeing a few issues this season. Hopefully success doesn't only last as long as an owner feels like spending.

Gundogan isn't as up there for me (regardless of spelling). For me, there are some games that I'll tune in for specific players -- De Bruyn for the passing game; Mbappe on any breakaway or in the penalty box; Suarez, can still find a way to score; Neymar on ball skill (though lately he's hacked, or flopped before he can get going); Ronaldo, anything really; Pulisic on the ball (if he goes to Bayern, hopefully he gets playing time as that's a loaded team); Pique for defensive positioning; Messi, also anything. But lately, Messi seems to be just walking around more.... Not as bad as Valderamma at the end of his career... walk 5 paces... one touch pass.... walk 5 paces... another one touch pass, repeat ad nauseum.

Those are all good points. Just one person missing though. Love him or hate him, you can't ignore his talent and acrobatics (at the age of 39, no less). The Zlatan, scoring bicycle kicks for fun.



and from a few years ago (albeit for country)

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
Messi, also anything. But lately, Messi seems to be just walking around more.... Not as bad as Valderamma at the end of his career... walk 5 paces... one touch pass.... walk 5 paces... another one touch pass, repeat ad nauseum.

But ... do you blame him? Barcelona are a mess, unfortunately. He'll be at City or PSG next year.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Also, for those interested, a series of articles from The Guardian on some of the best European Cup/ Champions League teams.

Interesting that they've included Liverpool in this as well (not that LFC didn't earn those four trophies, but more that there wasn't as much concentrated excellence).

I had also forgotten that Guardiola and that Barça squad has won the Champions League twice.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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I am sure gundogen isn’t as good as he has played the last two months but has anyone played better? (I am limiting my time of evaluating people to this time period).

Similar to man city. I doubt any club has put together a stretch as good as they have. It just seems like they have the top players from so many different countries and so many young studs. Their number 17 the Belgium. Augero. Torres. Foden. They just seem like the late 90s Yankees.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
40-Tude wrote:

Messi, also anything. But lately, Messi seems to be just walking around more.... Not as bad as Valderamma at the end of his career... walk 5 paces... one touch pass.... walk 5 paces... another one touch pass, repeat ad nauseum.


But ... do you blame him? Barcelona are a mess, unfortunately. He'll be at City or PSG next year.

If he's slacking off b/c he's unhappy at Barca, then that's not right. Walking and sulking around on the job isn't the right standard of professionalism.

If your walking around b/c you can't go a full 90 due to fatigue, injury, age slowing you down, then that's different.

I don't think Messi's at the twilight of his career (the way Valeramma was when he was strolling around at MLS).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone watch college soccer?

I don't do cable but I think in normal years some of my son's games would be televised.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
Anyone watch college soccer?

I don't do cable but I think in normal years some of my son's games would be televised.

I've watched some of the D1 final four games on TV some years. Always terrible.

I've watched some parts of some local college games D1-D3, and the occasional HS game, in person. Pretty impressive level of play.

A lot is lost on TV somehow.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
Velocibuddha wrote:
Anyone watch college soccer?

I don't do cable but I think in normal years some of my son's games would be televised.

I've watched some of the D1 final four games on TV some years. Always terrible.

I've watched some parts of some local college games D1-D3, and the occasional HS game, in person. Pretty impressive level of play.

A lot is lost on TV somehow.

Is it the filming?
Or the level/style of play?

3/4ths of the kids on my son's team play USL in the summer, or played on second or third tier pro teams in Europe and Latin America.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Where did you kid end up? (What conference at least). I remember a year or two ago you were talking about him.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Where did you kid end up? (What conference at least). I remember a year or two ago you were talking about him.

He is in the Summit conference.
Not super glamorous. But he likes his coach, team and university.

The Midwest doesn't seem to interesting too me.
But he has spent his whole life in the southwest. Bad weather and boring scenery seems exotic to him.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
Anyone watch college soccer?

I don't do cable but I think in normal years some of my son's games would be televised.

My nephew plays in the A10 conference, his first is tomorrow on ESPN+ -- I think they show a number of mid major games.
They are playing a top 5 team in Pitt, should be interesting.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
sosayusall wrote:
Where did you kid end up? (What conference at least). I remember a year or two ago you were talking about him.


He is in the Summit conference.
Not super glamorous. But he likes his coach, team and university.

The Midwest doesn't seem to interesting too me.
But he has spent his whole life in the southwest. Bad weather and boring scenery seems exotic to him.

How do those kids play pro ball in the summers if they are still NCAA players? (I think it's crazy that college players don't get paid, but that is another topic).

~Brad
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
40-Tude wrote:
Velocibuddha wrote:
Anyone watch college soccer?

I don't do cable but I think in normal years some of my son's games would be televised.


I've watched some of the D1 final four games on TV some years. Always terrible.

I've watched some parts of some local college games D1-D3, and the occasional HS game, in person. Pretty impressive level of play.

A lot is lost on TV somehow.


Is it the filming?
Or the level/style of play?

3/4ths of the kids on my son's team play USL in the summer, or played on second or third tier pro teams in Europe and Latin America.

I think several things...

1. TV usually shows the highest levels of the game (EPL, La Liga, etc.) so expectations on the level of play for what's on TV are (unconsciously) higher. Like watching MLS and expecting EPL level standards. Things get taken for granted (e.g. accuracy of, and settling a long ball pass; the perfect timing of a pass into space, etc.), Any miscues on lower play level on TV become apparent very quickly.

2. College commentary and camera work is not as good as pro level camera work, so quite simply, the presentation of the coverage and the experience of watching is not as good.

3. Being there live and watching the action up close (e.g.easy for college/HS level) gets you to see and notice things otherwise missed on TV -- i.e. seeing/hearing the effort/hustle to sprint and chase down a ball to keep it play reminds you of the effort (and/or skill) to pull things off. You also can catch the players talking/calling out to each other live - which also says a lot about their skills (or lack).

It's similar to ice hockey (my son's sport). Totally different experience being up against the glass seeing a live puck-battle happening a few feet in front of you... or the hustle to fight for a loose puck in the crease. Sometimes you can literally sniff the stench of hockey gear - it's that close/real. That is very different experience and appreciation from the livebarn feed of a game (livebarn.com allows you to catch the action at various arenas live streamed over the web).

That's great that your son's playing college soccer. If you're within driving distance, be fun to make the trip(s).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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CBS All access has been showing EUFA Champions League games as well.

https://www.cbs.com/shows/uefa-champions-league/news/1009996/how-to-watch-the-2020-2021-uefa-champions-league-live-on-cbs-all-access/


Not sure if this will be included with paramount+ when that goes live next week. May be worth signing up for a free trial, they sent me a 50% offer to extend for 2 months after cancelling during the initial trial. Not sure how exclusive the distribution rights are for soccer in your region.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Similar to man city. I doubt any club has put together a stretch as good as they have.

Google 'Arsenal 2003-2004' ... certainly better.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely.

Also the Liverpool team of the late 70s/early 80s (I might be a bit biased here....)
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [dah5609] [ In reply to ]
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I mean man city is on a 20 game win streak or something close to that. I am not sure if that has ever happened. And they have given up like 7 goals in that stretch.

Pure dominance
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
I mean man city is on a 20 game win streak or something close to that. I am not sure if that has ever happened. And they have given up like 7 goals in that stretch.

Pure dominance


And after about than €1 Billion in net transfer in the last decade (with about € 650 million in the four years with Guardiola in charge), how many champions league trophies?

If you aren’t sure, why make grandiose pronouncements before you could be sure? Why not read up more before showing your ignorance? Here’s a start.

Also, if winning streak is what you are after, Bayern did it last year and this year (23 matches winning streak, each season; i didn’t know these trivia either, but i know to read before i type). And Bayern won a Champions League trophy last year, too.

————————-

dah5609 wrote:
Definitely.

Also the Liverpool team of the late 70s/early 80s (I might be a bit biased here....)

They were regarded by the Graun as one of the six bests. Brian Clough’s Forest team may have been more impressive, but that LFC squad was so successful for so long. I hope that Herr Klopp could rejuvenate the current squad Paisley did.
Last edited by: echappist: Feb 27, 21 11:15
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Lol. You think someone saying “I am not sure†equals a grandiose proclamation?

if you are looking at records from 40 years ago to match what man city is doing right now you bet your bottom dollar that this current squad is dominating the competition.

I don’t think in history a current team has ever played as well as man city is right now. Pure brilliance over a two month stretch.
Last edited by: sosayusall: Feb 27, 21 11:26
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Lol. You think someone saying “I am not sure†equals a grandiose proclamation?

if you are looking at records from 40 years ago to match what man city is doing right now you bet your bottom dollar that this current squad is dominating the competition.

I don’t think in history a current team has ever played as well as man city is right now. Pure brilliance over a two month stretch.



Laughable. I even gave you a link to click on, and had you followed through, you would have seen that Bayern went on a 23-match winning run (across all competitions) both last season (2019-2020) and this season (2020-2021).

Man City currently has a 18-game (and perhaps continuing) winning streak in the Premier League. This equals the 18-game winning streak by LFC last year. Maybe Man City will equal or even surpass Bayern's record from last year; maybe it will even win the Champions League for once. But even if it were to do that, it still can't hold a candle to Guardiola's own team from ~10 years ago (that magnificent squad won two Champions League titles).

You, by your own admission, is a recent follower of the beautiful game, and don't yet know what you don't know. And yet you make the following sweeping proclamations (emphases added). Bringing up teams from decades ago is in direct response to your own proclamations (e.g. "man city has to be the best team of all time"). You have no clue about some of the best players all time (even from the last twenty years), and some of those players still shine, even today.

sosayusall wrote:
I have been watching for a month on peacock now. Some of my thoughts. 1) man city has to be the best team of all time. They are awesome to watch. Except they make everyone else seem like a Jv team. 2) gungedom (man city number 8) has to be the best player of all time. 3) on top of man city I have been watching Leeds United. They seem like a fun team.




I mentioning Bayern's recent achievements is in direct response to this post from you (again, emphasis added).

sosayusall wrote:
I am sure gundogen isn’t as good as he has played the last two months but has anyone played better? (I am limiting my time of evaluating people to this time period).

Similar to man city. I doubt any club has put together a stretch as good as they have. It just seems like they have the top players from so many different countries and so many young studs. Their number 17 the Belgium. Augero. Torres. Foden. They just seem like the late 90s Yankees.





I cited examples from last season and this season in response to the following, and you didn't even bother to educate yourself.

sosayusall wrote:
I mean man city is on a 20 game win streak or something close to that. I am not sure if that has ever happened. And they have given up like 7 goals in that stretch.

Pure dominance


Go enjoy your plastic fawning over a plastic team. You are the worst type of plastic supporters. Those of us without connections to the actual cities are more or less all plastic, but you are the worst type: ignorant and with a recency bias. And learn better debating skills while you are at it (pro tip, avoid modifiers such as "all time", "any", etc. when making statements, especially when you don't actually mean to compare against all teams, or even teams in the very recent past)

PS. Your recency bias is so severe, you either forgot about or don't care enough to know about this match. Got trounced 5-2 at home, from earlier this season. Real dominant stuff.

Last edited by: echappist: Feb 28, 21 11:38
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
PS. Your recency bias is so severe, you either forgot about or don't care enough to know about this match. Got trounced 5-2 at home, from earlier this season. Real dominant stuff.


Please see the entire title of this thread. I literally have said I have started to watch professional soccer very recently.

Man city has not lost since I have started to watch professional soccer. They are playing like an all time great team now. Maybe even the best ever.
Last edited by: sosayusall: Feb 28, 21 12:08
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:

Please see the entire title of this thread. I literally have said I have started to watch professional soccer very recently.

Man city has not lost since I have started to watch professional soccer. They are playing like an all time great team now. Maybe even the best ever.

Just own up to the fact you made some really ignorant statements, that you went into blustering and resorted to hyperboles, and we'll all move on. Simple as that.

If, as you say, you just started watching very recently, what gives you the idea that you have the remotest of clues in saying who ought to be "the best team of all time" and " I doubt any club has put together a stretch as good as they have" (both of which your own uttering, see below)

You even seemed to walk your statement back a bit by saying that Man City is "playing like an all time great team now". So which is it, is this Man City squad merely playing like an all time great (as in, not actually the all time best) or ought it be consider the best team of all time?

sosayusall wrote:
I have been watching for a month on peacock now. Some of my thoughts. 1) man city has to be the best team of all time. They are awesome to watch. Except they make everyone else seem like a Jv team. 2) gungedom (man city number 8) has to be the best player of all time. 3) on top of man city I have been watching Leeds United. They seem like a fun team.


sosayusall wrote:
I am sure gundogen isn’t as good as he has played the last two months but has anyone played better? (I am limiting my time of evaluating people to this time period).

Similar to man city. I doubt any club has put together a stretch as good as they have. It just seems like they have the top players from so many different countries and so many young studs. Their number 17 the Belgium. Augero. Torres. Foden. They just seem like the late 90s Yankees.
Last edited by: echappist: Feb 28, 21 12:25
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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past weekend matches...

Bale may be finally coming back into form? It's only been a few seasons.

Man United vs. Chelsea was a snooze.... (literally dozed off).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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COYS

Now if you like Keeping up with the Kardashian's and wanting to follow soccer I recommend the mess in Barcelona. JAJAJA

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Lol. I literally say I have been watching soccer for a month and that man city has to be the best team of all time (while they are on a historic streak).

My man. I don’t know why you think my statements would be anything other than hyperbolic and ignorant. I literally have said I know nothing about soccer.

As I also said gungdom has to be the best player of all time. I don’t think anyone would actually argue that but he has played out of this world during this time period. I don’t know why you similarly havnt brought up players that are better (because currently I am sure he doesn’t even crack the top 20). It’s because you know these statements are hyperbolic.

I have zero clue why you would assign the weight of someone whose words are factual or accurate. The internet on sports is literally the place to make hyperbolic statements.

It would be like someone watching only the 2008 nfl playoffs, and saying “there is no way someone in history has been a better football player than Larry Fitzgerald.â€
Last edited by: sosayusall: Mar 1, 21 10:28
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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City under Pep have been stunning. Agree don't think we have seen anything like them. Leaving win streaks aside the way they play is amazing, much of it done without De Bruynne who is in the top 5 players in the world.

When you think about what they have one and how they have done it they are a great great team. But they have not turned that into Euro success which was why Pep was brought in, so a few Real Madrid, Liverpool, Bayern circa 70's ahead of them.

Cloughy's Forest was great but they over achieved for what they had while City in Europe under achieved.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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For champions league and euro league do the schedulers take into consideration those extra games?

If you are playing a champions league game will your country league give you a bye week? Seems like a pretty big disadvantage, especially if you have to play 2 country league games in a week plus a champions league game.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
For champions league and euro league do the schedulers take into consideration those extra games?

If you are playing a champions league game will your country league give you a bye week? Seems like a pretty big disadvantage, especially if you have to play 2 country league games in a week plus a champions league game.

Nope. The teams are given ~72 hour turn-around, but sometimes quite a bit less (say a Wednesday evening away match followed by Saturday afternoon domestic match).

Then there are cup games as well.

To really do well, a team needs to be quite deep. Youngsters also get game time for matches of less significance.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:

If he's slacking off b/c he's unhappy at Barca, then that's not right. Walking and sulking around on the job isn't the right standard of professionalism.

If your walking around b/c you can't go a full 90 due to fatigue, injury, age slowing you down, then that's different.

I don't think Messi's at the twilight of his career (the way Valeramma was when he was strolling around at MLS).

In truth, yes, I agree. These guys definitely have to respect a standard. But, I mean, it's Messi, and I don't know that there's ever been a question of his professionalism, so if it slouches a bit because he's getting downtrodden, then he's just human, no? I'd give him that leeway especially if I was a Barca fan.

I'd say the man has another 2-3 years in Ligue 1 or the EPL, then off to MLS.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Why do top soccer players end up in the mls? (Zaltan, Beckham, Henry, etc)?

It can’t be the money. A couple million for people who have made 100 mil plus in a career can’t be worth it.

I can see if some of the players wanted to move to the states anyway (because no one knows who you are here) + get to live in a major city.

(We don’t see major basketball players with no connection to Europe go play in Europe or baseball players in Asia).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Extend career, opportunity to keep playing, get to life In LA Beckham. Maybe more money than you think. Pele George Best played in the NASL.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Hah, they have cup and if in Uk, League cup as well. Squads are deep to deal with this. Though up until mid 90's when Wenger came in they pretty much went with the top 11 in most games.

Serie A teams started having star reserves as well as La Liga and the tended to win the Euro tropies in that era. Plus no one actually tries very hard in Serie A or La Liga
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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stevie g wrote:
Extend career, opportunity to keep playing, get to life In LA Beckham. Maybe more money than you think. Pele George Best played in the NASL.

Don’t have to play mid-week matches on a rainy, windy day in Stoke
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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i think some of them just want the experience. Interesting to see which ones stay in shape and play competitively compared to others who seem to pack on a few pounds and run a lot less than they did. Some inspire their less capable team mates (Rooney for example) whereas others seem to struggle being on a team of less capable individuals than they are used to. When i watched Henry playing for the Red Bulls he seemed frustrated that his team mates weren't as capable as those he played with at Arsenal or Barcelona.

i bet it is a shock to the system to have to play a full season in the heat and humidity of a US summer and with all of the travel. i don't think MLS charters flights so there will be a lot of hanging around in the airport for guys who are used to something different.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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Henry was a lazy sod at Arsenal too, waited around for that one moment which he did very well, but did now work for the rest of the game.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Jan Molby at Liverpool was the master at that, just stood in the middle spraying inch perfect passes to all corners of the field - legend!
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [dah5609] [ In reply to ]
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for a fat slow man he was great loved him. I liked Ian Wright more than henry
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I could never stand Ian Wright, until I heard him on Desert Island Discs talking about his old teacher - after that I got a new found respect for the man, lovely bloke.

Henry was class though - him and Vieira in the same team, just sheer brilliance.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Why is the first tie breaker in the champions league for aggregate away goals scored?

I understand it for round robin format.

But it seems like it would play into tactics. Like if you lost the first game at home by a goal you’re really down by 2 goals in aggregate.

It seems like a somewhat silly tiebreaker when you could potentially just go to Pks or something else because both teams are right there.

However overall I like the idea because it forces the away team to be more agresive in the first leg (you don’t want to tie 0-0 because they means you have to outright win at home). It just seems like a silly tie breaker.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Well yes people are a bit over it:

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/away-goals-rule-what-is-it-will-uefa-drop-from-champions/c8h61pd7sm916zulqe11ug53


Before you get too excited about Man City and all these new cool kids, Fat Ronaldo is better than thin Ronaldo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsrhC9iEPXs


Best goal ever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3l-sdU9d0E


Some how this team doesn't win the 82 world cup, but played the best football ever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxyENH_ODJA
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I wanted to bump this thread. Caught the Bayern Munich vs Dortmund match today and discovered a rising star. I don't get to watch much football since I don't pay for cable, so I'd never seen young Erling Haaland for Dortmund before. He's the real deal and the commentators indicated he'll probably be leaving Dortmund after this season and will end up with one of the big clubs somewhere.

It was an interesting match with Dormund jumping to an early 2-0 lead and it was tied at 2 late into the game with Bayern winning 4-2.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [zed707] [ In reply to ]
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@the OP, if you want to learn more about your new favorite player, here's a good article on him: https://www.theguardian.com/...big-screw-in-my-back

zed707 wrote:
I wanted to bump this thread. Caught the Bayern Munich vs Dortmund match today and discovered a rising star. I don't get to watch much football since I don't pay for cable, so I'd never seen young Erling Haaland for Dortmund before. He's the real deal and the commentators indicated he'll probably be leaving Dortmund after this season and will end up with one of the big clubs somewhere.
It was an interesting match with Dormund jumping to an early 2-0 lead and it was tied at 2 late into the game with Bayern winning 4-2.

Yeah, he's the real deal, no doubt. Great ball control, especially in view of his large frame. Question is, who can afford his transfer fees. Manchester United that borrowed 60 million pounds to service its debts. Barça is way in debt. Real seems out of it. So that leaves PSG and Man City. His dad played for City actually, so I guess that's an option?
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure Alf would be happy with him playing for Keane's old club
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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Got to disagree about the best goal ever...I remember seeing this on ITV on Sunday afternoon and it always stuck with me.

frank worthington wonder goal - YouTube


Best match I ever saw live - just for you stevieG (especially that last goal at 8:25 in the video). I was at this match and missed a couple of the goals as I was wrapped round the safety stanchion in the Kop, following a big crowd surge. So much for Spurs and their Argentinian wonder boys!!

02/09/1978 Liverpool v Tottenham Hotspur - YouTube
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [dah5609] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAVHCvotIOk


Davie Cooper
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's been said that Alfie H. wouldn't have ill feelings if Erling were to go to Man Utd. I haven't looked for that statement of record, and am just going off memory. So, that could be erroneous, but Solskjaer and Haaland have the Molde connection. I doubt United will sign him though. He's too good for United at the moment, and United (Ed "Wooddick") have not a fucking clue how to go out and fucking lasso a signing (what a fucking comedy it has been!!!). He'll end up at Bayern, PSG, or Madrid, and I would say it'll be Bayern as the favorite to sign him.

Going back to your best goal ever ... JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ... as I watched that video, I couldn't believe it was 2004!!!! Holy shit - it seems like just a couple years ago. I distinctly remember watching that game and seeing the ball drop to him, and I knew it was going in. An absolute ballistic strike!!! I remember the game, but I don't remember where I was watching it. I remember the Champions League final too, because with Milan up 3-0, I thought it was over. I actually got sleepy, and started to doze off. I woke up after the first goal, and then with the second goal, I literally jumped up from the couch in disbelief! My girlfriend thought I had a problem, like I was sick and about to throw up or something. I remember where I was for that game. I also remember where I was for the following season's West Ham FA Cup Final too. Same thing ... could see the ball falling to him and knew he was going to score. I mean, in terms of importance, no doubt the Olympiakos goal stands out, but the goal against West Ham was like 35+ yards out. It was a missile!

I'm actually one of the Anti-Christ for Liverpool fans, and I only recall these moments out of disgust and disbelief. I mean, 5th in the league with 14 losses, and they're winning the Champions League??? Rafa Benitez worked some kind of ridiculous magic.

A good weekend for me ... Liverpool lost their 6th straight at home and we beat City! Won't do anything to change the title race, but should solidify European games if we don't totally fuck it up.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Why is pulsic wearing number ten for Chelsea?
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Why is pulsic wearing number ten for Chelsea?

He was given that by Lampard earlier in the season as a designated number/role for him. It's a big deal

(spoken by a former #10 myself).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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General bump to this thread now that most regular seasons in Europe have ended.... Some observations from week/end of season games...

Anyone catch the drama of the final standings in the Premiership? Came right down to the wire w/Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester all fighting for the all important 4th position and UEFA qualifying for next season. Liverpool took care of their business. Looks like Chelsea overlooked Villa and paid for it, but got lucky due to Leicester coming apart vs. Spurs. Having all of this happening simultaneously / live made for a meaningful end.

Bale is still a quality finisher.... he needs to land on a team and have a home.

If Kane moves and gets paired with DeBruyne at MC, that's a ton of potential goals.

Aguero finished up well at Man City... .Maybe rumors of him going to Barcelona will happen. (although that makes no sense for Barca, when they moved away from an aging Suarez. Karma for him to then then totally help rival Atletico Madrid win La Liga).

Real Madrid is a shell of what they used to be. Be interesting to see what they do w/end of contract players (Ramos), and what Zidane decides.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
General bump to this thread now that most regular seasons in Europe have ended.... Some observations from week/end of season games...

Anyone catch the drama of the final standings in the Premiership? Came right down to the wire w/Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester all fighting for the all important 4th position and UEFA qualifying for next season. Liverpool took care of their business. Looks like Chelsea overlooked Villa and paid for it, but got lucky due to Leicester coming apart vs. Spurs. Having all of this happening simultaneously / live made for a meaningful end.

Bale is still a quality finisher.... he needs to land on a team and have a home.

If Kane moves and gets paired with DeBruyne at MC, that's a ton of potential goals.

Aguero finished up well at Man City... .Maybe rumors of him going to Barcelona will happen. (although that makes no sense for Barca, when they moved away from an aging Suarez. Karma for him to then then totally help rival Atletico Madrid win La Liga).

Real Madrid is a shell of what they used to be. Be interesting to see what they do w/end of contract players (Ramos), and what Zidane decides.

Liverpool took care of business a few weeks ago with a crazy last second header by the GK. Kind of a feel good story there with his father drowning in February, on top of some head scratching blunders by a normally solid goalie. But yes, I think it helped Chelsea looked ahead. Even more interesting, Arsenal is not going to be playing in any European matches for the first time in something like 26 years.

Leeds finished the season strong and I truly believe they may start to be a threat to the top 4 within the next year or two. Whether Bielsa is the one that takes them there will be the question. If you don't know about him, research some of his quirks.

Finally, looking at Germany, FC Union Berlin finished 7th while the cross town rivals Hertha Berlin finished 14th. My how the tables have turned there. Union is a GREAT story and an easy team to get behind.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
General bump to this thread now that most regular seasons in Europe have ended.... Some observations from week/end of season games...

Anyone catch the drama of the final standings in the Premiership? Came right down to the wire w/Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester all fighting for the all important 4th position and UEFA qualifying for next season. Liverpool took care of their business. Looks like Chelsea overlooked Villa and paid for it, but got lucky due to Leicester coming apart vs. Spurs. Having all of this happening simultaneously / live made for a meaningful end.

Bale is still a quality finisher.... he needs to land on a team and have a home.

If Kane moves and gets paired with DeBruyne at MC, that's a ton of potential goals.

Aguero finished up well at Man City... .Maybe rumors of him going to Barcelona will happen. (although that makes no sense for Barca, when they moved away from an aging Suarez. Karma for him to then then totally help rival Atletico Madrid win La Liga).

Real Madrid is a shell of what they used to be. Be interesting to see what they do w/end of contract players (Ramos), and what Zidane decides.

Real Madrid had over 50 injuries this season and finished second in La Liga and made it to the Semis of Champions Leauge. When any other team makes it to the Champions League Final it is big news, when Real Madrid does not make it, that is big news.

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
40-Tude wrote:
General bump to this thread now that most regular seasons in Europe have ended.... Some observations from week/end of season games...

Anyone catch the drama of the final standings in the Premiership? Came right down to the wire w/Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester all fighting for the all important 4th position and UEFA qualifying for next season. Liverpool took care of their business. Looks like Chelsea overlooked Villa and paid for it, but got lucky due to Leicester coming apart vs. Spurs. Having all of this happening simultaneously / live made for a meaningful end.

Bale is still a quality finisher.... he needs to land on a team and have a home.

If Kane moves and gets paired with DeBruyne at MC, that's a ton of potential goals.

Aguero finished up well at Man City... .Maybe rumors of him going to Barcelona will happen. (although that makes no sense for Barca, when they moved away from an aging Suarez. Karma for him to then then totally help rival Atletico Madrid win La Liga).

Real Madrid is a shell of what they used to be. Be interesting to see what they do w/end of contract players (Ramos), and what Zidane decides.


Real Madrid had over 50 injuries this season and finished second in La Liga and made it to the Semis of Champions Leauge. When any other team makes it to the Champions League Final it is big news, when Real Madrid does not make it, that is big news.

Yes, the burden of expectations and history. And I'm probably guilty too of holding them to that standard. In the semis vs. Chelsea, I thought it would be more competitive, but Chelsea were clearly the better team. And I don't think Chelsea will beat Man City in the final.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [crowny2] [ In reply to ]
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That was so awesome when Becker scored on the header, so well executed too. The raw emotion on the pitch from his teammates was great. Happy that they are back in the Champions League next year.

On my bucket list to see a match at Anfield one day.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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Question about salaries and transfers/etc.

Is there a max amount of money a team can have salaried at a time? It just seems that based on valuations that’s Barcelona and Real Madrid should be much better teams than everyone else in Europe.

Also just generally. I like the top 4 idea. However it seems like once you are in the top 4 and not in race to win it all it doesn’t matter.(seeding?) Or is there a difference between finishing 2nd vs 4th.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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There's no salary cap in football/soccer. It would probably be unenforceable as players can switch between clubs in different countries, and all countries would have to agree to the limits. Can't see the big boys in Europe standing for it.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Question about salaries and transfers/etc.

Is there a max amount of money a team can have salaried at a time? It just seems that based on valuations that’s Barcelona and Real Madrid should be much better teams than everyone else in Europe.

Also just generally. I like the top 4 idea. However it seems like once you are in the top 4 and not in race to win it all it doesn’t matter.(seeding?) Or is there a difference between finishing 2nd vs 4th.

There's no salary cap but there are "financial fair play rules". I'm not sure exactly what those are because clearly if billionaires by a team they will be a top team within a couple of years. I think there is something about the money spent has to come from the club's money not out of the pocket of the owner. Man City was in line to supposedly get in big trouble for violating these rules at one point recently. IIRC, they even received a pretty stiff penalty but then that was overturned on appeal and seems to just have gone away.

Yes there is seeding for the group stage of Champions league, basically teams are put into 4 pots based on finishing places and then one from each pot is drawn for the groups. So you don't end up with 4 top teams in a group or 4 donkeys in another group.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
sosayusall wrote:
Question about salaries and transfers/etc.

Is there a max amount of money a team can have salaried at a time? It just seems that based on valuations that’s Barcelona and Real Madrid should be much better teams than everyone else in Europe.

Also just generally. I like the top 4 idea. However it seems like once you are in the top 4 and not in race to win it all it doesn’t matter.(seeding?) Or is there a difference between finishing 2nd vs 4th.


There's no salary cap but there are "financial fair play rules". I'm not sure exactly what those are because clearly if billionaires by a team they will be a top team within a couple of years. I think there is something about the money spent has to come from the club's money not out of the pocket of the owner. Man City was in line to supposedly get in big trouble for violating these rules at one point recently. IIRC, they even received a pretty stiff penalty but then that was overturned on appeal and seems to just have gone away.

Yes there is seeding for the group stage of Champions league, basically teams are put into 4 pots based on finishing places and then one from each pot is drawn for the groups. So you don't end up with 4 top teams in a group or 4 donkeys in another group.

This is one of the better explanations I've seen for it. Basically it has to do with the amount of spending and financial losses a club can have, regardless of how much the owner can buffer that (but they are allowed to buffer some of it).

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/29361839
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [crowny2] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks!

This seems incredibly easy to get around though. Because the revenue in has to be associated with sports/merchandising/tv/etc.

Seems like a billionaire could just purchase a bunch of jerseys/pay for marketing through advertisements/create schemes to indirectly boost the club/etc.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Question about salaries and transfers/etc.

Is there a max amount of money a team can have salaried at a time? It just seems that based on valuations that’s Barcelona and Real Madrid should be much better teams than everyone else in Europe.

Also just generally. I like the top 4 idea. However it seems like once you are in the top 4 and not in race to win it all it doesn’t matter.(seeding?) Or is there a difference between finishing 2nd vs 4th.

Actually this is how PSG and Manchester City got their teams. Follow the money. Real Madrid and Barcelona may be the most valuable teams, but the pockets of PSG and Man City are much much deeper

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
sosayusall wrote:
Question about salaries and transfers/etc.

Is there a max amount of money a team can have salaried at a time? It just seems that based on valuations that’s Barcelona and Real Madrid should be much better teams than everyone else in Europe.

Also just generally. I like the top 4 idea. However it seems like once you are in the top 4 and not in race to win it all it doesn’t matter.(seeding?) Or is there a difference between finishing 2nd vs 4th.


Actually this is how PSG and Manchester City got their teams. Follow the money. Real Madrid and Barcelona may be the most valuable teams, but the pockets of PSG and Man City are much much deeper

I thought those Spanish clubs were massively in debt, which was a large part of the impetus to create the Super league?
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Billabong wrote:
sosayusall wrote:
Question about salaries and transfers/etc.

Is there a max amount of money a team can have salaried at a time? It just seems that based on valuations that’s Barcelona and Real Madrid should be much better teams than everyone else in Europe.

Also just generally. I like the top 4 idea. However it seems like once you are in the top 4 and not in race to win it all it doesn’t matter.(seeding?) Or is there a difference between finishing 2nd vs 4th.


Actually this is how PSG and Manchester City got their teams. Follow the money. Real Madrid and Barcelona may be the most valuable teams, but the pockets of PSG and Man City are much much deeper


I thought those Spanish clubs were massively in debt, which was a large part of the impetus to create the Super league?

I thought the same thing but got this update last week.

https://www.espn.com/...r-third-year-running

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Billabong wrote:
sosayusall wrote:
Question about salaries and transfers/etc.

Is there a max amount of money a team can have salaried at a time? It just seems that based on valuations that’s Barcelona and Real Madrid should be much better teams than everyone else in Europe.

Also just generally. I like the top 4 idea. However it seems like once you are in the top 4 and not in race to win it all it doesn’t matter.(seeding?) Or is there a difference between finishing 2nd vs 4th.


Actually this is how PSG and Manchester City got their teams. Follow the money. Real Madrid and Barcelona may be the most valuable teams, but the pockets of PSG and Man City are much much deeper


I thought those Spanish clubs were massively in debt, which was a large part of the impetus to create the Super league?


I thought the same thing but got this update last week.

https://www.espn.com/...r-third-year-running

Their valuation is different than revenue and cash flow.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Thanks!

This seems incredibly easy to get around though. Because the revenue in has to be associated with sports/merchandising/tv/etc.

Seems like a billionaire could just purchase a bunch of jerseys/pay for marketing through advertisements/create schemes to indirectly boost the club/etc.

I think (not entirely certain cause I get lost in the weeds) that is what Man City got in trouble for, appealed and then won. But I could be wrong.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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There are FMV assessments when there is overlap between the football club and other businesses with the same ownership in order to make sure they are not breaking the rules. For example, Etihad airlines can't pay billions of dollars to be the shirt sponsor of Man City in order to move funds from the airline to the soccer team and get around FFP.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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There are FMV assessments when there is overlap between the football club and other businesses with the same ownership in order to make sure they are not breaking the rules. For example, Etihad airlines can't pay billions of dollars to be the shirt sponsor of Man City in order to move funds from the airline to the soccer team and get around FFP.

It seems incredibly easy to get around the rules. Such as political organizations buying books, then giving them out at rallies and events, and all of sudden you are a NYT best seller.

But more so what seems like a team could easily do is off the books investment opportunities for their players.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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If I was a teammate of David De gea he and I would be having a oneway conversation. What a pitiful PK attempt.

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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How much does winning the European cup matters if you have already qualified for the champions league?

Seems like it would be like winning the NIT tournament.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
How much does winning the European cup matters if you have already qualified for the champions league?

Seems like it would be like winning the NIT tournament.

I think players are generally highly competitive and want to win. They pretty much have to be given the cut throat selective process in soccer. So it matters a lot to them and the team.

Financially I'm not sure it makes all that big of a deal. I would think qualifying for the champions league is far more important.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Did Villareal qualify for both the Europa league (based on points in league. I think 7th) and champions league (winners of Europa league) next year?
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Did Villareal qualify for both the Europa league (based on points in league. I think 7th) and champions league (winners of Europa league) next year?

They would only do one or the other. If the winner of the Europa league still gets Champions league, I'm sure that's what they will do.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Wasnt Manchester united in both the champions league this year and the european league?

I THINK i remember them playing PSG
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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sosayusall wrote:
Wasnt Manchester united in both the champions league this year and the european league?

I THINK i remember them playing PSG

I don't remember but probably. If you finish 3rd in your group in the group stage, you parachute down to the Europa league. So you can be serially in the two competitions in the same year but not in both at the same time.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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i think having the winners of the second tier european competition qualify for the champions league (which they have since 2014) was one of the best ideas uefa have had. Elevates the competition and even makes some teams think about whether to prioritize league position or the Europa league as the season comes to an end.

Great to see a smaller club such as Villareal beat one of those giants that wanted to form the ESL.

Disappointed to see many of the man u players taking off their medals straight after they were awarded. at least wait until they are off the podium. if they want to convey to their fans that they are not happy about losing the final they can do it without disrespecting the tournament.....or just put more effort in during the game (Paul Pogba).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Ahhh thanks! I did not know about the 3rd place finish in champions get demoted. (Seems strange to me! But I can see why it happens).
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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For the Premiership, the UEFA and Europa qualifying rules are nicely explained here ...

https://www.premierleague.com/...lification-explained
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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OK so who amongst us burned their Barcelona Jerseys today?

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [sosayusall] [ In reply to ]
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Watch Ted Lasso instead. much more entertaining.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
OK so who amongst us burned their Barcelona Jerseys today?

I keep hearing all this doom and gloom about their financial situation, Real Madrid too, got to wonder if one or both of these clubs will implode at some point. I'm not sure about Barcelona but I think Real Madrid is somehow propped up by the Spanish govt. so if I were to bet on it, it would be Barcelona that could go bankrupt first.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, turn of events there was a real shock....

ESPN has a really good q/a, though quite speculative, on the various moving parts at play ...

https://www.espn.com/...s-saga-will-play-out
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
Yes, turn of events there was a real shock....

ESPN has a really good q/a, though quite speculative, on the various moving parts at play ...

https://www.espn.com/...s-saga-will-play-out

I just don't understand how clubs routinely miss out on dozens if not a 100+ million Euros by letting players' contracts expire. It would seem to me the first order of business would be to never let that happen, particularly when the club's finances are in shambles already.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Billabong wrote:
OK so who amongst us burned their Barcelona Jerseys today?


I keep hearing all this doom and gloom about their financial situation, Real Madrid too, got to wonder if one or both of these clubs will implode at some point. I'm not sure about Barcelona but I think Real Madrid is somehow propped up by the Spanish govt. so if I were to bet on it, it would be Barcelona that could go bankrupt first.

Not quite true. Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Atletico Madrid have better TV rights than the rest of La Liga.

Barcelona's financials are so bad that there is a possibility that none of the four new signings will be registered. Their salary is 110% of their total income.

https://www.marca.com/...a47413b028b4602.html

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Looking at Barca over the last couple of seasons, they've been riding (or hiding) behind the success of Messi for awhile. As soon as he called them on their issues it started to unravel....

Poor development pipeline, lack of long term planning/strategy for success, change in presidents / management, questionable financial management, SuperLeague debacle, . . . It's a shame.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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What a great start to Premier League the gooners go down to Brentwood a team making their first apperance in the Top Flight since 1947.

But I know Spurs will also lose tomorrow.

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
What a great start to Premier League the gooners go down to Brentwood a team making their first apperance in the Top Flight since 1947.

But I know Spurs will also lose tomorrow.


So nice with the fans back. My son said Brentford fans were chanting, "You're just a shit Tottenham" :)

What an opening weekend started with Arsenal getting spanked and ended with Spurs topping City. Doesn't get much better than that.

If only Leeds had done United.
Last edited by: ThisIsIt: Aug 15, 21 13:33
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Something I am excited about is this season with peacock (paying 5$ a month) + ESPN (paying 5$) a month, I am able to watch bundesliga, la liga, and EP.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Billabong wrote:
What a great start to Premier League the gooners go down to Brentwood a team making their first apperance in the Top Flight since 1947.

But I know Spurs will also lose tomorrow.


So nice with the fans back. My son said Brentford fans were chanting, "You're just a shit Tottenham" :)

What an opening weekend started with Arsenal getting spanked and ended with Spurs topping City. Doesn't get much better than that.

If only Leeds had done United.

Watched a bunch this weekend and had the same question during each game. Is COVID over in Europe?

They had packed stadiums, chanting, yelling, cheering, standing on top of each other and I didn't see a single mask in the crowd shots. It actually felt like 2018 not 2021. I can't figure out why it was like that but I loved it. Great atmosphere.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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I follow Premier league and La Liga, but frankly speaking find serie A games the most entertaining. That is an easy instruction how you can watch if you have a firestick - https://www.firesticktricks.com/...-a-on-firestick.html. Maybe i am just big fan of Italian way of playing. No idea.
Last edited by: MitchMcCrown: Sep 13, 21 2:43
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [SDG] [ In reply to ]
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SDG wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Billabong wrote:
What a great start to Premier League the gooners go down to Brentwood a team making their first apperance in the Top Flight since 1947.

But I know Spurs will also lose tomorrow.


So nice with the fans back. My son said Brentford fans were chanting, "You're just a shit Tottenham" :)

What an opening weekend started with Arsenal getting spanked and ended with Spurs topping City. Doesn't get much better than that.

If only Leeds had done United.


Watched a bunch this weekend and had the same question during each game. Is COVID over in Europe?

They had packed stadiums, chanting, yelling, cheering, standing on top of each other and I didn't see a single mask in the crowd shots. It actually felt like 2018 not 2021. I can't figure out why it was like that but I loved it. Great atmosphere.

Spain seems to have limited crowds with social distancing, at least the ones I saw.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [MitchMcCrown] [ In reply to ]
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MitchMcCrown wrote:
I follow Premier league and La Liga, but frankly speaking find serie A games the most entertaining. Maybe i am just big fan of Italian way of playing. No idea.

When I started watching, Italian soccer was boring, very defensive and slow paced, seems like in recent years it's become more entertaining.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
MitchMcCrown wrote:
I follow Premier league and La Liga, but frankly speaking find serie A games the most entertaining. Maybe i am just big fan of Italian way of playing. No idea.


When I started watching, Italian soccer was boring, very defensive and slow paced, seems like in recent years it's become more entertaining.

These days, the notion of a style in more influenced by the coach and his system, rather than a characteristic of the league.

England used to do the long-ball play, Italians used to do the sit in a defensive shell and then counter-attack, Germans used to be very methodical and organized playing through the midfield (still are, based on stuff I've seen last season).

But with most teams and coaches being from different countries, those generalizations don't really apply anymore. Pep's changed Man City's style to something "new", Juve's making use of Ronaldo's skill. And over in France, PSG has a nice problem to have with Messi, Mbappe, and Neymar and the rest of that crew being less French than a mix of world all-stars.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
And over in France, PSG has a nice problem to have with Messi, Mbappe, and Neymar and the rest of that crew being less French than a mix of world all-stars.

PSG have more "nice" problems than just Messi. Forget Messi, PSG have had themselves a transfer season of SOME kind with just Wijnaldum, Hakimi, and Donnarumma alone. They've got also gone and got Ramos, who I don't think is as impactful as the others, but certainly still a player with experience. Will light a fire under Kimpembe. Navas isn't happy, but you can't keep (almost non- !!) arguably the best GK in the world on the sidelines. Top it off with Messi, and you've got one helluva season of expectations!!! Unbelievable.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: I am starting to watch soccer. What league should I follow? [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Totally agree. And there are rumors that Pogba may join PSG. If so, and if he plays like he did at the Euro's they'll have a significant all-star presence in the midfield.
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