I see their line of reasoning. They just make an app, and the drivers who use their app are responsible for the transportation.

That's going to be increasingly hard to spin in the future, though, as both Uber and Lyft are spending vast amounts in the race to self-driving cars. And that technology is going directly onto vehicles vs. just the phone of the driver.

Why is it BS? Do they drive people?

Did you read the article? Take another look at page 3 of the S-1 form Lyft recently filed with the SEC in the lead-up to the company’s $25 billion IPO. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck, even if you want to call it a chicken.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

No.

I will read and then revert.

Read it. Nothing in my mind changed. They are effectively a broker matching transportation seeker with transportation provider.

So let's agree to disagree and see how this plays out in the courts.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

"not in the transportation business." :)

Hasn't ride sharing actually benefitted a lot of people with disabilities who can't drive safely? Maybe they don't support all disabled people, but the lowered cost of transportation does have benefit to many people with disabilities. Especially older people who shouldn't be driving. I would rather see them using ride sharing than getting handicap placards and driving.

Fair enough.

I believe AirBnB would make the same claim.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Would the solution to this be for Lyft to update the app to let disabled passengers request a handicapped-accessible ride and match their request to drivers who can accommodate them?

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I miss YaHey

Yes. It is required of the taxi industry. Uber and Lyft spend a lot of money buying, er, donating to campaign funds, to get laws rewritten.

Unlike the taxi industry... because they never had politicians in their pocket enforcing artificial scarcity to detriment of consumers, which includes disabled people.

The whole reason the taxi industry existed is because they owned politicians.

You don't see the difference between a taxi and a ride share company?

AirBnB is an interesting angle. I wonder if they are required to have wheelchair or handicap accessible options (ramps, bathrooms) as part of their available rentals.

.

Is Travelocity in the transportation business?

What about Turo? Is it in the transportation business?

Autotrader. Are they in the transportation business? Do they sell transportation vehicles?

Is Grubhub in the restaurant business?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

THEY ARE NOT PROVIDING THE SERVICE. (Side note most buildings are required to be ADA compliant)

Nope. AirBnB does not provide lodging. It connects those seeking lodging with those offering lodging.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Preach it brother

True. But, many (probably most) places on AirBnB are private residences that are not required to be ADA compliant. That said, your first comment is spot on.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And Grubhub now provides public transportation ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I've only ever used it to rent condo units on vacation. The public areas have to be ADA compliant, no?

Because they're clearly not in the food delivery business!

That is correct. If we are talking about an apartment building, a multi-condo unit. etc., then the public areas must be ADA compliant and the individual units must be able to be configured to be ADA compliant if the occupying party needs it.

I've only rented houses on AirBnB. Those private houses are not required to be ADA compliant. That said, an argument could be made that, if the house is solely used as a rental property, it may have to be ADA compliant.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

They aren't in the restaurant business or the food preparation business or even the raw food handling business, I think we can agree on that.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Difference between married with a gaggle of children and gaggle free

Yes, but they're in the food delivery business. Airbnb is in the short-term housing rental business. Uber and Lyft are in the ridesharing business. Ridesharing, I think, could be considered a type of transportation?

No more so than posting something on the bulletin board looking for a ride home at Winter break and offering 50 bucks. Does the bulletin board need to ensure ADA compliance?

What properties does AirBnB own?

Is ebay in the retail sales business?

How many vehicles does Lyft own? How many drivers do they employ as W-2 employees?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Here are some of Lyft's patent. They sure use the term "transportation" and "vehicle" a lot for a company that's just a bulletin board:



"Facilitating transportation services by generating a directional indicator between a requester and a transportation "
"Optimizing pickup locations for transportation requests based on context information"
"Ride chaining"
"Autonomous vehicle notification system"
"Switching between object detection and data transfer with a vehicle radar"
"Detecting and handling material left in vehicles by transportation requestors"

First word of the first patent all you need buddy.

Oh, I don't know or care about the legal stuff. My only point is that they're a transportation company when speaking in plain English. I'm sure they could spin that way now, but my point is that most of their capital is going into self-driving cars right now. And there's simply no way to spin that managing a fleet of self-driving cars is done by anything other than a transportation company.

And the self driving cars will be ADA compliant big boy. If they aren't I'll be right next to you with a pitchfork

They both trade rides for money.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how rideshare works.

As soon as they operate their own cars, you can make that argument. By relying solely on that argument, you are conceding that, at present, because they own no cars, they are not a transportation company.

YOU may not care about the "legal stuff," but, the "legal stuff" is all that matters.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Nope. A taxi company owns the vehicles and employs the drivers. Lyft does neither.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You're just being silly. Uber and Lyft are in the business of transporting people. I'm fine giving a wink-wink at them to avoid ADA compliance. I think it's silly to require them to do be ADA compliant in this case. Government regulation has to adapt to the real economy. The proper way to do that is to change the regulation. But just pretending they're not a transportation company just enables the continuance of poor regulatory law.

Next, you will argue that LinkedIn is an employment agency.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I replied above. The legal stuff matters. I just think it's better to change the law side rather than do the mental gymnastics to pretend a transportation company isn't a transportation company.

What? The analogy isn't close enough to even be silly.

Why? They connect people who have jobs to offer with people who are seeking jobs.

Lyft connects people who need rides with people who have rides to offer.

It is a perfect analogy that illustrates the fallacy of your position.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And how do they do this "transporting? "

Right now, Lyft does not provide transportation services anymore than Travelocity provides transportation services. Once Lyft deploys its own vehicles, the situation will have changed. But, that is not now.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Nope. Lyft connects transporters with those who need transportation. Lyft does not provide transportation.

Look, this is really, really easy to prove. If you log in to the Lyft app and request a ride and no drivers are out, available, and/or in your area, you don't get a ride. Lyft does not deploy another vehicle or driver to your location. It merely connects you with a driver in your location, but, only if one is available.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'm sorry, I thought you paid Uber and Lyft whenever you got a ride. My mistake (sarcasm if it's not obvious)

Nope. You pay the driver. Lyft and Uber collect the fee as part of their service and deduct an appropriate fee.

You also pay ebay every time you buy an item off of ebay. Do you think ebay is in the retail sales business?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

No, you're dead wrong. Taxi companies typically lease cabs to drivers, who are in many cases not employees.

You're trying to draw a bright line between taxis and Lyft, but I don't think the line is quite that clear.

The common element is that both taxi cos and Lyft spend a lot of money on rat bastard attorneys. :-)

Did you read what you wrote? Taxi companies lease the cars to drivers. That means the taxi company owned the vehicles. Lyft doesn’t own any vehicles. That is a very, very, very, bright line!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Sorry, no, you don't pay the driver. You pay Uber and Lyft who then pay the driver. Unlike you, I am not speculating on this.

No I don't

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Most... except of course private homes, which is what AirBnB rents out.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Did you read what you wrote? "A taxi company owns the vehicles and employs the drivers."

That is quite simply not true in many cases - the drivers are contractors who lease the cabs.

I suggest you research the case law on joint employer status with cab drivers.

Then reread your erroneous assertion.

EDIT TO ADD: https://www.shrm.org/...dent-contractor.aspx

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And the driver is not getting paid the full fee. Uber and Lyft are taking a % of revenue as their cut, not just a flat surcharge. Therefore, I think they are in the transportation business, as that is how they are generating revenue. They aren’t merely matching a driver to rider, they are profiting off the entire ride.

Oh so when I buy something at a store I'm paying Square. Got it.

Well you thinking it doesn't make it so. Do you know that MasterCard and Visa charge a variable rate.

This is a terrible analogy are using. You're falling into the same trap that JSA did.

Lyft promotes the shit out of itself. It promotes that it can get you from point A to point B in a reasonable time at a reasonable price. That is how it has grown and succeeded. Yet you two Midwest dolts want to argue they aren't a transportation company?

Square is not out promoting or managing the marketing for its merchants. It markets its services, which are taking payment and providing some cash register services. Your analogy is so terrible you should be ashamed of yourself.



Sure, Lyft is a tech company, because that isn't an ad offering rides. Hmmmmm.

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===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dYS2vF0cpao

Here is another ad for Lyft. Funny I don't see anywhere where it is offering technology services. In fact, it's offering rides, much like a transportation company!!!!

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===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

I agree and I think the lawsuit is stupid. It is beyond unreasonable to expect every Uber/Lyft driver to have a vehicle that accommodates all disabilities.

Yes it would but how would the lawyers get paid?

JSA did not fall into any trap. JSA knows the law. Also, JSA isn't a fucking idiot like the poster to whom he is responding.

How many transportation vehicles does Lyft own?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yep, offering rides on all the vehicles they own ...

Travelocity offers flights. You probably consider them to be in the airline business.

Wait, Travelocity also offers hotels ... so ... they must be in the hotel business, right?

Wait ... hold on ... they also offer rental cars, so, they are in the rental car business!

LOL!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What cracks me up is there are people who think that Taxis are some kind of golden chariot for disabled people.

Yep.

For an example of how the courts view the application of the ADA to tax cabs, see:

Noel v. NY City Taxi & Limousine Comm'n, No. 12-41 (2d Cir. 2012)
Two people who use wheelchairs and organizations that represent persons with disabilities brought a class action against the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission and the TLC Commissioner for violation of Parts A and B of Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and the New York City Human Rights Law. The district court granted plaintiffs partial summary judgment as to liability on the ADA claim and entered a temporary injunction, requiring that all new taxi medallions and street-hail livery licenses be limited to vehicles that are wheelchair accessible until the TLC proposes and the district court approves a comprehensive plan to provide meaningful access to taxi service for wheelchair-bound passengers. The Second Circuit vacated the temporary injunction as improvidently granted. Although the TLC exercises pervasive control over the taxi industry in New York City, defendants were not required by Title II(A) to deploy their licensing and regulatory authority to mandate that persons who need wheelchairs be afforded meaningful access to taxis.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

CaptainCanada thinks Travelocity is in the airline industry. Here's his evidence:

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Oh! Wait, now CaptainCanada has evidence Travelocity is in the hotel business!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Wait! CaptainCanada offers definitive proof Travelocity is in the airline business!!! See that? That's an AIRPORT, buddy! Busted!!!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I also find it interesting in addition to getting paid for rides Lyft requires their drivers to be licensed, insured and most importantly have cars if they are not a transportation company. I can see a lawyer making the case that Lyft just connects people who need rides with drivers that are available. I can't see any jury buying that line of BS athough OJ did get acquitted.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Lyft doesn't have drivers. Lyft doesn't own any vehicles.

AirBnB requires those who offer lodging to legally own the property, be insured, be in compliance with federal and local laws for rental properties, and actually have lodging. Reservations are booked on AirBnB's website and AireBnB takes a portion of the amount paid through the AirBnB website. Does that make AirBnB a lodging company? How many properties does AirBnB own?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Payment processors require things like not being a criminal enterprise. Your reasoning is specious and illogical

You are the OP and seemed surprised the ADA may not apply to Lyft. I posted this above, but, you may not have seen it. Here is how the Second Circuit Court of Appeals views the application of the ADA to NYC taxis:

Noel v. NY City Taxi & Limousine Comm'n, No. 12-41 (2d Cir. 2012)
Two people who use wheelchairs and organizations that represent persons with disabilities brought a class action against the New York City Taxi and Limousine Commission and the TLC Commissioner for violation of Parts A and B of Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and the New York City Human Rights Law. The district court granted plaintiffs partial summary judgment as to liability on the ADA claim and entered a temporary injunction, requiring that all new taxi medallions and street-hail livery licenses be limited to vehicles that are wheelchair accessible until the TLC proposes and the district court approves a comprehensive plan to provide meaningful access to taxi service for wheelchair-bound passengers. The Second Circuit vacated the temporary injunction as improvidently granted. Although the TLC exercises pervasive control over the taxi industry in New York City, defendants were not required by Title II(A) to deploy their licensing and regulatory authority to mandate that persons who need wheelchairs be afforded meaningful access to taxis.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Uber sets rates, essentially dictating how much a driver can make.

Uber controls tipping, to an extent. (The app now allows it, but only provides minimal options.)

Uber provides insurance, even though the driver also has to meet and insurance requirement.

Uber requires drivers to submit to a background check.

Uber markets (or at least attempts to market) the safety and qualify of its service.

Uber pays the driver.

Drivers don't know the final destination until they pick up the passenger. Uber withholds this information until after the driver has committed resources to the ride, at which point the driver has to follow through.

There are probably more points where Uber inserts itself into the driver/passenger relationship and controls how that works.

So while Uber may not be an employer, it's also not the equivalent of a ride-sharing bulletin board on a college campus that students can visit to find a ride home for the weekend or holiday. It's much more involved in every single ride.

I just don't see how forcing them to do it is going to make life any better for anyone. A much better way would be to provide some kind of financial incentive, like a tax break or something. Forcing them to do it will make them do just the bare minimum, which means lousy service.

And when has visa or MasterCard ever claimed they weren’t in the business of payment processing?

If a utility hires contractors to do tree trimming, would you argue that the utility isn’t in the business of line maintenance?

Also, we arent talking about a 1%-2% processing fee. They are taking over 20% of the total revenues. That’s a little more than the just a processing charge. Especially given that the company, not the driver has sole ability to set rates.

Whether or not they should have to comply with ada is a separate discussion. Arguing that they are not in the transportation business is asinine.

No, because the utility owns the line and has its own employees who install and maintain the line. Lyft owns no vehicles and has no drivers as employees.

Would you argue the contractor who is hired to trim the trees is in the business of line maintenance?

EDIT TO ADD: The utility set the hours of work for its own employees who work on the line. The utility schedules the work for the employees. The utility directs the employees on the location of that work. The utility sets the start time and the end time. The utility controls whether the employee will work due to adverse weather conditions. The utility provides benefits to the employees like vacation, sick leave, workers compensation, and 401(k). The utility controls the amount of work the employees can do. The utility provides the trucks used to work on the lines and the safety gears needed to work on those lines.

How many of these things does Lyft do?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

But it's not a separate discussion. It is now a legal matter that is in the courts. Arguing that they are not in the transportation business is a very valid point, legally. If they concede that, it makes it harder to claim they shouldn't have to be ADA compliant.

This is not a philosophical arm-chair discussion for them. It is a legal matter and whether they are or are not in the "transportation" business matters a hell of a lot. It would be a horrible strategy to concede that point and then try to fight the ADA requirement.


.

Contractors who are hired to trim trees provide that service and there are not necessarily any utility employee on site while the work is occurring. Nor does the utility set any of those above things beyond trim these miles for x price during this time frame. The utility may not even directly employ any workers for that purpose, with 100% of trimming coming from outside contractors.

Lyft May not set hours, but they most certainly set wages for the drivers through setting the price of the service. The two thing I look at are this: Lyft is in control of the entirety of the pricing, and Lyfts revenues from rides are the central activity of the business. If they didn’t have sole control on pricing and weren’t profiting from the duration and distance of rides, then I would agree they weren’t in the transportation business. They aren’t just matching drivers to riders under their business model.

This is more of an aside, but I also think it wouldn’t be that hard to pierce the contractor liability shield through the fact that driving is an inherently dangerous activity.

You can argue they are in the transportation business and argue that the law needs changed and they shouldn’t be subject to the ADA. I dislike legislating through the court. I feel like most of the people who are arguing they aren’t a transportation company are mainly doing so because they don’t like the outcome that comes from saying they are a transportation company.

So what?

1. Lyft does not own any vehicles.
2. Lyft drivers are not employees of Lyft.
3. Lyft sets no hours of employment. Lyft does not set a start time or an end time.
4. Lyft does not limit hours worked by drivers.
5. Lyft does not set the work location for drivers.
6. Drivers have to use their own materials and equipment.
7. Over half of Lyft drivers also respond to Uber ride requests at the same time they are responding to Lyft ride requests.

So, Lyft does not provide any vehicle or any equipment. Lyft provides no communication devices, cell phones, etc. Lyft sets no hours. Lyft direct no work locations. Lyft requires to minimum hours. Lyft owns no vehicles. All Lyft is doing is matching drivers to riders and requiring all parties using the app to agree to the pricing model attached to the use of that app.

Do you believe AirBnB is in the lodging business?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

AirBnB is not setting the reservation rate. They are solely taking a processing fee for matching the buyer and the seller. The seller decides how much their residence is worth. That is not what Lyft and Uber are doing. Their revenues are directly coming from the pricing decisions they are making. If Uber/Lyft allowed drivers to set the price, then I would agree they are in the tech business. But because they have direct control over all facets of the revenues, that’s what moves them from just an app matching willing parties to being in the transportation business.

Edit: Drivers are not allowed to see the destination before they accept the fare. If the drivers were truly independent and it was just matching users, Uber/Lyft wouldn’t have a problem with this.

AirBnB uses a pricing algorithm to check prices that must be within their guidelines. The prices requested by the owner must be approved by AirBnb, who retains the right to drop the listing if the price is not within its guidelines. In addition, once the renters book using AirBnB's webite/app, the owner is not free to change the price without facing penalties from AirBnB.

As I mention above, over 50% of Lyft drivers also respond to Uber requests (and other requests) while responding to Lyft requests. Lyft is not directing drivers to report to any location. All Lyft is doing is prompting drivers of individuals needing rides and both parties - the driver and the passenger - are agreeing to pay a certain rate to use the app connecting them.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I am sure when companies like Lyft or Uber were started and developed it was not done capriciously and a lot of time and resources and legal capital went into structuring their business model and knowing legally what they are and are not so based on that alone I am sure they are what they say they are unless an unexpected/precedent setting ruling were to occur.

Hey, how about that, now even the Federal Government says these drivers are not employees. Who could have seen that coming???

Uber drivers are independent contractors without federal protections for organizing activity and unfair labor disputes, the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) has concluded. The board issued its conclusion in an advice memo from Associate General Counsel Jayme L. Sophir, of the NLRB's advice division.

https://www.hrdive.com/...ns-memo-says/554815/

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

This decision makes sense. There is a case going on now regarding independent contractor or employee status for high school sports officials in PA. Being a high school basketball official in PA this is obviously important to me. Would you look at this and let me know what you think, since you're a labor lawyer.

https://www.referee.com/...ependent-contractor/

Thanks

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

This is a good read on how Uber, could find itself in trouble, or at least forcing the courts to further define some legal issues around price fixing.

https://jalopnik.com/...troy-uber-1834790506

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

It could be a moot point. The NLRB has since reversed its stance on independent contractors and returned to its former position. It is possible that, even if the DC Circuit affirms the NLRB's decision and remands it to the NLRB for enforcement, the NLRB may re-open the case and reverse its opinion. So, everyone may be spinning their wheels for nothing.

Assuming the doesn't happen, I think the Board got is wrong in deciding the PIAA is not a political subdivision. I think there is a strong chance the Court reverses that finding, which would likely reverse the case because then the NLRB would not have jurisdiction. The Obama-appointed NLRB rendered this decision initially. That Board ignored and/or overturned decades of precedent. In addition, the Board expanded its jurisdiction in a ridiculous manner, much of which was overturned by the courts. This, to me, looks like another over-extension of their jurisdiction and, for that reason, it could be kicked.

Assuming the case is decided on its merits, it is a bit of a toss-up. Both parties have good arguments. But, given the sporadic and part-time nature of the officiating, it seems a bit difficult to consider them "employees" of any entity and certainly not of the school districts for whom they officiate.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Not exactly true. AirBnB attempted to make claims in the same spirit and has lost all over the place. They pay lodging taxes in most states these days...because Hotel Lobby baby.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

That's not entirely true. AirBnB was not found to owe the tax. Instead, AirBnB was threatened with being shut down in certain jurisdictions unless it required its hosts to pay the lodging/occupancy taxes. Thus, AirBnB negotiated deals with certain jurisdictions to collect the lodging taxes owed by the hosts and provide it to the local government. But, this was not because any court determined AirBnB provides lodging. Instead, the threat was made that AirBnB would be considered a co-conspirator in claims against the hosts for knowingly not requiring the hosts make the applicable payments. But, again, this had nothing to do with a determination AirBnB provides lodging.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Thank you for the explanation. As of right now the PIAA has lost all of it's court cases and they are waiting for their last appeal. They believe, as you stated, it may be a moot point. I know they hope so because this has cost the association a ton of money.

Personally I'm against this union idea. The officials could have easily just said, "fine, we won't work any games." The AD's would have backed down pretty quick. There aren't a lot of officials for all sports, lacrosse is worse. There would be people who went ahead and did games anyway but they would be the ones most people didn't want.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

None of these people would be making a dime without the protections the ride share gig groups enjoy over traditional licensing, rules, taxes, requirements that actual local cab companies have to hold themselves to.

And with all those rules, taxes and requirements they forgot about improving the service for consumers or making it less expensive.

See the article I link to above. IF they are independent then they should be able to set the price themselves else it is Price fixing.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

See the article I link to above. IF they are independent then they should be able to set the price themselves else it is Price fixing.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Or is it? Is Lyft/Uber offering a gig that pays $x (while charging customer $y) ie connecting rider, willing to pay $y, to driver willing to drive for $x.

No, it isn't. Uber and Lyft are merely broadcasting the fact that passenger A is looking to go from here to there. If you choose to accept this opportunity, here is what it pays.

This is akin to a trucking company that uses independent contractor drivers. The company publishes available routes and the price that will be paid for the route. Independent contractor drivers are free to pick and choose the load they want to carry. The trucking company sets the rates for the loads, but, that fact does not make the independent contractor drivers employees of the trucking company.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Im not going to debate Law with you. Read the article, I'm not making the claim, the author / other lawyers are, and I think it said some court rulings support that.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

That's a wise choice on your part because you are wrong.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I can't be wrong I have no opinion here, I am simply sharing knowledge (with links) to where I found said knowledge/opinions.

So you can argue the opinions and articles I shared are wrong, fine that's your opinion / right.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Thank you for sharing false information.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Thank you for providing evidence or supporting opinions that this is false information.. oh wait you didn't

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

LOL! Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't there! But, hey, keep posting false information, if that's what trips your trigger.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Huh, did you post a link about price fixing, I guess I missed that. Not sure how its false information, it seemed to be

Here, I'll help you http://file:/...gation%20problem.pdf


Of course heres a law firm trying to build a case against uber and lyft drivers for price fixing.
https://klaprothlaw.com/...n-airport-customers/

And just in case you missed it the original article, that lays out the pro's and con's of the case, and the previous rulings and how they would impact a case if one were to be made (and avoid arbitration somehow)
https://jalopnik.com/...troy-uber-1834790506

Oh and thanks for your condescending, arrogant, lack of explanation posts, reminds me why I have you blocked, and have enjoyed this site so much more since doing so.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Then why are you constantly responding to me?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

'Cause you're so adorable?

Just for closure, this is on the opening page of the PIAA website:

PIAA Sports Officials Are Properly Classified
As Independent Contractors


The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, in a unanimous 3-0 decision has agreed with PIAA that PIAA-registered sports officials are properly classified as independ-ent contractors, not employees. The D.C. Court of Appeals’ deci-sion vacates a prior decision issued by the National Labor Rela-tions Board in July of 2017, which had found that a group of PIAA-registered lacrosse officials in Western Pennsylvania were employ-ees for purposes of the National Labor Relations Act.


In reaching its decision that PIAA officials are independent con-tractors, the Court of Appeals relied heavily upon the fact that PI-AA-member schools, not the PIAA, pay the officials during the regular season; that each season is a relatively short duration; and that PIAA does not exercise significant control over the calls made by officials during a game or contest. As the Court of Appeals noted: “Telling an official to call a game fairly is hardly akin to instructing a worker how to work.”


PIAA has always strongly believed that the officials are properly classified as independent contractors. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals noted: “Almost every state court deci-sion involving an amateur sports official’s employment status’ has come to the same conclusion.” The prior NLRB decision created significant uncertainty in this area. PIAA and state athletic associations across the country now have clarity. PIAA-registered sports officials are independent contractors.


Thanks again for your input.

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