Super happy with my gaggia classic for the last 3 years. No complaints. Feel like I'm missing nothing.

Good choices for that price range. 1k should get you into a Sylvia and a rocky grinder.

A topic that rivals the passion I have for triathlon...

Have you tried an aeropress? http://www.aeropress.com/ https://worldaeropresschampionship.com/recipes/

But have a DÄ“Longhi PrimaDonna at the office which isn't too bad either.

Cheers!

I'm just gonna leave this here: http://slayerespresso.com/...ngle-group-espresso/

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AndyF
bike geek

Coffee is never OT.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

This. It's like the entry-level standard (flame suit on for the coffee snobs). I bought my Classic at the beginning of last semester and have pulled a minimum of two doubles hots a day—the thing is perfect.

I also use a moka pot and an aeropress pretty regularly. Aeropress is awesome, but it's less convenient (IMO) than a moka pot or a shot from an espresso machine. If I had a way to heat water up more efficiently, it might be a different answer, but it's still a great tool nonetheless.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I have the silvia / rocky grinder as well as an aeropress and french press. I think all are great, and I tend to cycle through them based on what we feel like - and realistically once you spend the money on the machine the other ones are really quite cheap. From what I've read, don't skimp on the grinder ether, rule of thumb is spending 50-70% of the cost of a machine on the grinder. I have doserless type because I think its more flexible for filling the aeropress and the french press.

I and my fiancee love the silvia because I have my 2 shots of espresso early before I head to swim, and then she gets up and has a lattee. I find the silvia slightly more forgiving for bean quality too. But we love the aeropress when we go camping, and some weekends I like the french press if we have friends over for brunch because its way quicker then pulling 5 shots separately.

The Silvia we have used almost everyday for 5 years and have had no problems with, I love how heavy it is relative the the Gaggia, its a solid brass heater and when you pull of the top all the piping inside is metal - I think its great quality and highly recommend it - I also think its totally paid for itself - I think we spend 1100 or 1200 Can, but amortized over 5 years and how much less coffee I buy, totally worth it.

Spend your money on a grinder, and get the best machine you can with the $$ that is left. You can always mod and/or upgrade the machine later.

An amazing machine w/ shit grinder = bad espresso. A great grinder w/ a decent machine = quality, and you can make noticeable adjustments to grind, tamp pressure, etc.

Good bets for grinders are Rancilio, Baratza, and Mazzer ($$). Rancilio Rocky is a sure bet.

Machines, I'd look into something refurbished from Seattle Coffee Gear or Whole Latte Love. Gaggia Classic is a great start.

Love my La Nuovo Era Cuadra. In fact I'm sitting on an incredible cappuccino right now. It's slightly above your top range, but it's a step above the others mentioned. But be sure to spend many hundreds on a good grinder. I personally have a Mazzer Mini.

I've had the Silvia and Rocky for ten years and love it. The Sylvia is a good machine to start off with - it is relatively forgiving. And down the road if you really get into it, there are plenty of mods available to fine-tune its output. The machine had given me no trouble, and the Rocky is a great grinder.

I haven't looked at it recently, but when I got mine, Whole Latte Love had a package deal that also included a nice stainless steel base that serves as a storage area and knock-box.

Kevin

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~Kevin

Gaggia Classic and Rocky grinder. Daily use for the past 3 plus years with just routine maintenance. I agree with other posters- the grinder is the key. Add a Blue Bottle subscription and you are all set.

get a machine with PID

Also, note that some heat exchanger machines arent descalable at home

I had a Breville Infuser for three years before upgrading to a Rocket, and I'd buy it again. That said, if I was starting the process with what I know, I'd probably go with the Rancilio pair - https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/...ocky-grinder-package

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Rancilio Silvia, hands down. I've owned that one, and an S24 which is a semi-commercial model. Both pull great shots. Also consider the used market - you might be able to find a semi-commercial Rancilio which is going to have a double boiler, meaning you can pull shots and steam at the same time, which a Silvia can't do. Hard to go back after that (like buying a Toyota after driving a Porsche).

I don't think the real benefit of a double boiler is that you can do both at the same time. I can't ever imagine doing both simultaneously. I think it's that the whole processes are separate. And that has two primary benefits:

- the steam is basically on-demand with a dual boiler system. Turn the knob, get steam. And - most critically, IMO - get GOOD steam. The steam on the single boiler machines is just not as... "strong."

- you can set a different temperature for brew and for steam. This plays into the "good steam" stuff above. Good steam is a lot hotter than what you want to brew with. IMO. And being able to separate the processes allows you to get the kind of steam you want and get the kind of water you want.

I was really happy with the single-boiler Infuser. But I wouldn't want to go back to a single boiler machine now...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Started w a Gaggia Classic; after 3 years upgraded to a Salvatore. The Gaggia is still going strong 8 years later w a friend. I also have a Silvia as a backup...seems a bit better for espresso than the Gaggia.

Grinder- started w a Baratza and upgraded to a Mazzer Super Jolly I picked up from a coffee shop that was closing. For travel- an Aeropress and an Orphan Lido 2 grinder. Fresh beans are the key too- right now working through the dark and medium roasts from LaColombe.

New Baratza grinder looks to be incredible for $500:

I'd have a hard time buying a Baratza after spending a lot more time reading about reliability and also the experiences of a personal friend to whom I recommended the Vario (since replaced with an HG-1). They just don't seem super well made. People like them... for a couple years. If you go read the reviews, it's either 8+ or 3-. People have great experiences. Or lousy ones.

The big problem seems to be the split adjustment mechanism. I.e., the big steps adjuster and then the micro adjuster. It just doesn't seem to be super reliable.

I also think the burrs are probably on the small side, but that's another story. I have a Baratza Encore, and I think I make pretty good coffee with it, but I think part of the reason is that it ONLY has the macro adjustments - I make incremental adjustments myself in a crude way; I do about 1/2 the grind at one setting, then do another 1/2 at a finer setting. Stir the grinds. Tamp.

But plenty of people seem to struggle to get reliable results with the dual-adjustment Baratza models.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I can't pretend to be a huge coffee lover / drinker but I do enjoy it from time to time...

I was given a Saecco Talea last year by someone who had "upgraded" to a Thermador built-in espresso machine. Beside having a huge footprint compared to my old Saecco Aroma, I am quite happy with it, except when I realize I forgot to empty the ground coffee compartment after a few weeks and it becomes a compost experiment.

Aeropress all the way

Check out the Rok grinder...

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

The Rocky and Silvia aren't good values anymore IMO. They used to be about 5-10 years ago. If you have a hard budget of $1k I'd go with a Gaggia machine and a good grinder. That way you can upgrade to better espresso machine if you get the itch and not have to buy a new grinder. For ~$1500 I think the Breville Dual Boiler + a decent grinder if you don't like to tinker. The Breville is pretty easy to buy for 20% off from Bed Bath and Beyond. I use an E61 Heat Exchanger machine but it has more of a learning curve than a PID'd machine. As far as the grinder, you need to spend at least ~$250 to get something capable of producing a decent espresso grind.

Anyone have any suggestions to upgrade my gaggia MDF grinder? I strongly dislike the doser-type grinders... It's a freaking pain.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Hello quickguru and All,

My wife has a used Gaggia Baby $150 and a Gaggia Grinder $125 for sale ........ if you are interested ...... PM me.






http://www.surlatable.com/..._h1ycp6tA-_6h0BoCtKb

.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

How much you want to spend? I'd say, based off what I've been able to learn, that the cheapest *good* espresso grinder is the Compak K3, which is also doserless (a plus in my book) at ~$550. https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/...ch-doserless-grinder

There are decent grinders for less than that, sure. But it seems like anything less is a "...but you'll want to upgrade eventually" type of purchase. The K3 seems to be good enough to pair with a machine of any caliber without being a limiter. I have not been able to find anything cheaper than the K3 that seems to be 1) reliable and 2) capable.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

For that range, if you're considering machine alone, also consider crossland CC1. If this is cost for machine AND grinder make sure you have room for ~$300-350 on grinder. The new Baratza Sette grinders look to be very good, and the Rancilio Rocky offers a lot of bang for buck in the espresso world (go doserless). FWIW I have a gaggia classic, rancilio rocky, and then run all my other coffee through a baratza virtuoso (it's normal to have espresso and then different coffees for pour over, aeropress, etc. in your home, right?). All equipment is at least 5 years old and has held up well.

What those automatic grinder have that manual grinder like this one don't?

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/hario-skeleton-skerton-coffee-mill

Coffee snob checking in.

Best way to enjoy coffee is black, brewed. Not fancy fluff espresso drinks.

Best way to brew coffee is a $40 French press and a $20 grinder.

You guys are throwing money away on stuff that gives you inferior coffee taste. That's nuts.

^ please.


coffee snob checking in as well.
Brewtus IV rotary pump plumbed in, paired with a Mahlkonig k30 vario grinder. I use an aeropress when on the road.

All of the things above above buying a good grinder are on point. It's kind of like lenses and bodies of cameras.

I have the Gaggia Accademia, Gaggia Titanium, Gaggia Classic, and a Nespresso for backup.

The Accademia is pretty good, except for the capacity of the drop tray and dredge drawer. It complains about something all the time (clean drip tray, refill water tank, coffee beans empty etc.)
The titanium was better capacity wise, both are "beans to cup"
The Gaggia Classic is more manual work but I feel like I have more control over everything. But you have to grind the coffee yourself. I kind of like that whole process though, it feels like I am crafting my coffee instead of just pressing a button.

The Nespresso is obviously very convenient, and the coffee pods are actually pretty good. It's more expensive to run though, and you don't get that feeling of control and the "hand crafted" element.

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____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

if you're looking to dip your toe into the pool (and its a very deep pool....believe me) I suggest going used. you can get a lot of machine for very good pricing, and as long as you get it checked over (any decent shop can do this) it should be no issue.

a lot of people seem to buy espresso makers picturing this life where they sip lattes on their porch in the morning sun, and it never gets used and winds up on craigslist 6-12 months later barely used. Seize that opportunity.

Or open box. There are some really good deals on open box machines as well.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Yes that is basically my life. Except in winter I sit inside, next to the deck but not on it. Usually in the sun

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____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

I am also looking to upgrade my set up. I've had a Gaggia Baby Class and Gaggia 8002 MDF Grinder. The grinder seems alright, however, its all I know and the most expensive grinder I've owned.

There is only one choice, and that choice is Nespresso!

The best part of their offering is the number of varieties they have for you to choose from. I think they're up to around 14 different varieties now and it really makes a difference. They have an easy way to recycle pods and ship the pods easily as well.

It's certainly worth a look!

another coffee snob here.

The grinder and FRESH BEANS really are key, you can make great espresso with a good grinder, good beans and a entry level espresso machine.

I have a Rocket r58 paired with a Eureka Mignon Instantanio. Highly recommend the grinder for the price.
I have a lot pricier Elektra that collects dust because its a doser and makes a mess, the grind quality might be a touch better but I enjoy the convenience of the doser less.

I also have a aeropress, french press, percolator, kuerig, moka pot, drip filter and my personal preference is espresso or long black, and a flat white in the evening.

I have had a few cheap-er espresso units over the years, but seem to have stepped up my espresso making abilities with the Breville Barista Express.

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/...ess-espresso-machine

I like that the grinder is built into the package, the pressure gauge is great for getting a feedback on the grind size and tamp pressure, and most importantly, I think it can make a decent cup.

It's certainly in your price range too!

wrong wrong wrong, just plain wrong

I see, an artist... While I'll admit that a pulled espresso from an expert hand is pretty damn unbeatable, I am not that hand and dropping a pod into one of those machines is too easy to pass up. In fact, I average about 6 daily!

Not automatic, but there's always this.

http://www.target.com/...FUw&gclsrc=aw.ds

It's what I use.

+1 on fresh beans, closer to the roasting date makes a huge difference.

A double boiler allows one to brew a latte or mocha in quick succession, otherwise a single boiler will have you waiting about 2 minutes for steam for the milk. Also, doing any succession of pull shot, froth, pull shot--goes to hell with a single boiler.

I have a Rancilio Silvia & a Rocky Rancilio grinder. No regrets, but wish I had sprung for the higher end, semi commercial double boiler model.

You will never regret spending more money on a higher quality expresso machine (unless your afib is a pre-existing condition).

STOP IT!

Having a Nespresso is like masturbating, where a good espresso is like having good sex with a beautiful woman.

Plus, coffee is only black. Coffee flavors is the worst thing that happened to coffee.

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SmartBikeTrainers.com || YouTube || My Twitter

Everyone needs a little instant gratification once and a while...

Seriously, when I said varieties I meant that as different types of coffee beans, not vanilla, hazelnut, etc. if you find yourself in a store that has their machines try a couple of their shots for the sake of argument.

I get it, there's no romance in dropping a pod into a machine and then push one little button for your shot. That said, I've had other, more expensive machines and also tried espresso shots at tons of coffee shops. Rarely, outside of Italy that is, have I found a better consistent shot of espresso than via my Nespresso machine. Their coffee quality is excellent, there's a nice crema on the top of the shot and no matter what style of coffee you like they've got you covered.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off for my morning masturbation.

Nuff said.......

Good point. Open box is actually how I got my grinder.
A friend bought a store demo model saved over 40% on a machine that would sit and be used for the odd demo over a 12mth span.

i have a Silvia with PID and no longer steam as i suck at doing latte art; which reminds me, anyone wants to show off their latte art work?

also, weighing your grinds is very important to consistency of your espresso

Just. Say. NO!

14 different varieties? With a real espresso machine you have thousands if not millions.
You go buy beans, either from large producer or small roasters, and you grind them and extract.
You can dial in the flavor and do some pretty incredible things.

There will come a time in your life where you will try a shot of espresso that truly is life changing. Mine happened to be from a slayer single group so my life is now ruined. The sweetness, the buttery smoothness. Changes the way you taste and see coffee. You simply can't do that with a machine where everything is preset. The guys in the factories making the pods are simply trying to mimic the fresh espresso taste. Or you could just go pull a shot of fresh espresso.

Like you, I'm also ruined for life by the perfect pull of espresso. It happened to me the first time I tried one in Florence, Italy and I'll always remember it! Because of that shot I now really only drink espresso and average around 6 shots daily.

Since then, I've had very few shots that could come close to nirvana. Instead, it's a frustrating experience of almost or not even close to what I expect when trying shots. I've owned several different types of machines and tried countless different beans as well (Illy remains my favorite). Maybe I just don't have the skill set to make a good shot but I really do know what to expect and Nespresso delivers a really good shot with a beautiful crema.

Stop by a store that will allow you to try a shot and make sure to ask for the OriginalLine. I'm not kidding, you'll be impressed. They may be pods but after a little research you'll find its not just some lame Keurig, it is indeed the real deal.

Finally, a shout out to my favorite espresso shot in the US. If ever you're in Long Beach on 2nd St in Belmont Shore, stop by Aroma Di Roma. They deliver a beautiful shot and their dry cappuccino is divine.

We have this machine and it is Very good. Not sexy Italian but well made and reliable. Easy to clean too. The only thing which can catch you out is that the filter basket is smaller than most (54mm I think - most are 58) and so you can't get yourself a fancy after-market tamper unless you're very lucky. Or you have enough $$ for a Chris King - they come in different sizes. According to two friends of mine who're in the coffee business, a deeper/smaller basket enables a better result from a modest machine and (importantly) without much barista expertise.

Nespresso convert here !

I have a Gaggia classis at home, and a Baby Gaggia at work. Gaggia MDF grinders.

I love my espresso and probably have 3 or 4 double shots a day.

But I recently bought a Nespresso machine and I love it ! It hasn't replaced the others but it's a great machine.

I'm up at 05.15 to swim 4 times a week and it's just a lot less hassle to throw a pod in and press a button than fire up the grinder and start brewing !

I would say it's 80% of the taste of a "proper" shot, and 0% of the hassle.

I still enjoy a "proper" coffee when I've got time, but for what it is I think the Nespresso is great.

Each to their own !

LG

I like that, actually was thinking about getting one. It would be nice not to have to weigh the output. Set it up for desired extraction ratio with a particular bean and roast level once.

There's nothing like it. Oodles of endless great steam, plus volumetric control. Awesome machine and once dialled in very consistent.

That about describes me:).

I had the pleasure of visiting NZ a few years ago and was amazed at the consistent quality of Flat White's (The worst FW I ordered in NZ was from Starbucks). I try to recreate the FW as best as I can and while I'm happy with the results, I know it can be better! I was pissed the other week to order a FW from starbucks (in Canada) and my first thought was 'shit, ...this is better than mine!'

I don't worry to much about the tamper. I like how it magnetically attaches to the unit and isn't too likely to go missing. All my other Breville units have used the same size basket (I agree, I think it's a 54mm), so it can't be that uncommon.

I have the baby and the same grinder. I find some beans to work better than others with this setup, and now I'm looking for something else. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head into a Nespresso, but maybe I should.

Try one. The coffee is quick and consistent and almost entirely mess free. Does exactly what it says on the tin !

LG

I know you are talking home espresso machines but a shout out to Behmor, a small producer of coffee makers and bean roasters located in Incline Village, NV. I recently purchased the Behmore Brazen machine and it rocks. You can program brew temp, your elevation, pre-saturation time, etc. I think it is only US company that makes a SCAA (Specialty Coffee Assoc of America) coffee maker. Pair that with a nice burr grinder and you are good to go. When I want a shot, i use the commercial machine at work since it is free ;-) see http://behmor.com/

Alright, for those of us who just want to move to a semi auto / auto from a cheapo steam unit... what's the value buy. ~$400 or below?

I'm a coffee nerd, but not ready to move into the espresso nerd market yet... still have sticker shock. To stay on topic, what's the Cervelo P2sl of espresso units ;)

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

For machines I think it's any of several Gaggia units (Classic, Baby Class, etc) which can generally be found on sale between $250 - 400. The step up to Rancilio Silvia is about double the money, although it's arguably worth it if you want to spend that much. All of these machines hold resale value surprisingly well.

Bigger issue is the grinder, where I think the hands-down value choise is Baratza, either an Encore or a Virtuoso. They are also a cool company that tries to reuse things like packing materials to avoid waste, and all their grinders are rebuildable yourself (they sell parts) or by them for a reasonable charge.

yeah I've got an Encore for grinding. (and a porlex for when the wife is asleep)

She might throw me out of the house if I show up with a ~$1k+ espresso machine though ;)

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Would it make sense for me to go from a Baby Class with a Gaggia MDF grinder to a Rancilio Silvia with a Rocky grinder? Is this a logical upgrade in your opinion?

Yes.

Saeco Via Venezia with an unpressurized portafilter. Make sure you also budget for a grinder

I would increase your budget slightly and get a Breville dual boiler or E61 HX machine and a better grinder. The Silvia is not worth upgrading over a Gaggia IMO. I used Gaggias for 8 years and they are fine machines if you know their limitations. As I said before, the Silvia and Rocky are no longer good values in 2016 IMO.

Aeropress + hand grinder + freshly roasted beans are all you need.

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Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.

Is that a Vivaldi? I've had one for 8 years now. Plumbed in with double boiler and love it. As you said the volumetric control is great. Just hit the double button and start steaming the milk.

I say something used is the best. I have an old Expobar Office Pulser that sits unused as a spare. You could find one like it in that price range.

It's the successor to the Vivaldi, the La Spaziale Dream. Same mechanicals, but improved control and display, plus built in timers, user profiles, etc.

Another nespresso fan here. Quick, easy and good. Different flavors and the machine also makes cups of coffee for when you wan to change it up.

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Power Meter City
Your Power Meter Specialists

Man, that is a good question. Atomic maybe? I'm not sure if this is the P2SL. - or even P3SL, perhaps more of a Pegoretti...and it's very unautomated but it's a classic made from metal.

http://www.atomiccoffeemachine.com/index.htm

Came back from a year in Switzerland and bought a Jura superautomatic for my house. Failed on day 1; would not power on the second time. Returned it, bought a Nespresso. It. Just. Works. Best shot ever? No. Best product for me? Yes. And I've purchased two other Jura superautomatic machines for my office. They've been great. The first one took endless abuse and the failed only because the tubing started to leak more than we were willing to mop up. And then we discovered that for something like $150, Jura would completely refurbish a machine. This is an office with about 100 folks, many making espressos. Pretty impressive. That machine is nails. Pretty good espresso, too!

on race day i would agree. can make it in your hotel room easy peezy.
Only limitation is you cant pull a proper shot with them, but its as close as you're going to get in something portable.


For those complaining about the time for the big dual boiler machines to heat up i strongly suggest getting a wifi wall timer. Can set it to auto turn on in the morning so you can just wake up and its ready to steam right away. Handy as well as you can simply pop into the app while you're riding home, turn it on, and by the time you're home its ready to go.

Nespresso has been life changing for me, in a good way.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Plus 1

I bought this on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/...i_detailpage_o02_s00

Turns it on at 4am. Off at 2pm.

If you have a bunch of wifi plugs, that's a great option also. But if you just want something simple, this works.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

i picked up a belkin WeMo adapter. $45, great app. Can turn on from anywhere. Plus you can monitor power usage, which was interesting as i thought the machine would draw a LOT more power than it actually is. Mine kicks on around 430ish right now and off at 745am as i'm out the door to work. weekends its on at 630 and off at 130pm.

Jura C60. It's my baby. I figure it saves me a ton of money because it makes the expresso at Starbucks suck. I almost never order coffee out. Best 899$ I ever spent!

Does anyone have experience with a manual conical burr grinder? How do they compare to the expensive electronic conical burrs? Do you recommend one particular brand over another?

Thanks

I've got the same thing on my Rocket. I used to set my alarm to get up a half hour early, turn on the machine, and then snooze for half an hour. Now I can set it up on a programmable schedule pretty easily. It's also nice that I can flip it on when I leave work, so that it's warmed up by the time I get home.

Are you talking "big" manual - like the HG-1 or Pharos - or "small" - like the Hario Skerton or Porlex?

If you're talking about big manuals, it seems to be a pure matter of personal preference that's largely aesthetic. Plus a desire, often, to single dose.

The small manuals seem okay. Surely lots of people use them daily. But they often have relatively limited adjustments. Take a relatively long time to grind. And the burrs are quite small; burr size is a whole debate in and of itself; you read through any of the umpteen threads on home barista. Most of the folks that I know who have small manuals use them with an aeropress when they travel.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I use a small Hario Skerton hand grinder. It works great for my Clever or aeropress grinds, but it does take nearly 5 minutes to grind a cup's worth. Based on that, I'm saving up to get an electric version one day, but for now I'll get extra exercise. It does make me appreciate the drink more. :)

I use a Lido 2 hand grinder for coffee (not espresso) - works great! I used a Clever Coffee Dripper or Aeropress to make the coffee.

Hello quickguru and All,

A cup of coffee:

https://pvcycling.wordpress.com/.../08/25/your-covfefe/

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster