I don't own, but I was curious because I kept seeing advertisements for them on ammobot. I suspect each state/city may have different laws. From what I could tell, I could own one. but if you committed a crime in one then it was an added felonhy charge.

Are you talking about a daily wear thing like a kevlar vest or a steal plate thing for combat?

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Plates are heavy, like really heavy. ATF agent patient brought his in for me to understand the loads on him during training. 30 lbs for a chest and back plate in a fairly minimal vest. Then they start adding the gear and ammo to that. And they're huge/bulky. Stopping a rifle round requires big heavy plates. Stopping a pistol round, I believe, can be done with much, much less.

Foe everyday use. You know, I go about minding my own business when a lunatic opens fire just like that.

Kevlar baby!

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Why not get a bulletproof backpack?

I think situational awareness will get a lot of people out of these situations.

Do you plan on being shot by a pistol or a rifle?

LOL

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

How bad have things gotten that you're seriously considering wearing armour all day, every day?

Is that seriously what you're intending to do?

I don't want to incur The Forge's wrath so I'm not going to comment on how fucked up the rest of the world thinks the USA is, but really????

If I ever felt threatened enough to consider wearing body armour going about my day to day business, then it's time to get the fuck out of whatever shit hole I've found myself in.

Unless the OP lives in Iraq, Syria or Somalia he should maybe go see a doctor about anxiety issues. Seriously.

I'm even more amazed that he got more than one serious response to his question.

You serious, Clark?

Drive to Oregon and ask one of those dudes.

LR seems a bit nutty lately.

If I were you I'd just wait for the Death Blossom to become commercially available and wearable. Last Starfighter came out in 1984..only a matter of time right?

Seems like you might want to lead with that tech next time right? I mean it's over 30 years later and I still can't get over the fact they almost let the Kodan Armada get us by waiting to the last second. Dumb asses.

Right??

I mean I get that it would have made the movie incredibly short but fuck..we're talking galactic peace and security here..

I seriously need to watch this and Krull again..these seem like movies I need to revisit every decade or so..for entertainment and personal defense reasons.

Not to mention Maggie was waiting back at StarLight Mobile Home Park to um......give him a heroes welcome. There really is no reason to hold back on the Death Blossom.

Krull! I have this new channel or new to me with all these movies as of late. Dragonslayer.....still sucked.

You beat me to the punch..Dragonslayer would have absolutely been my next post!

...and no matter how hard I tried to like Dragonslayer I just could not bring myself to.

Totally off my attempted comedic portrayal of personal defense but since we're on a roll on movies from the period..hell let's watch some Strange Brew greatest clips!

PX store..loads of em , go try one on!

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sometimes

That automatically leads into Slap Shot, the Hanson Brothers and 'put me in goach'

Sure does..not to mention Monster Squad!

I inherited one in my (prosecutor) office years ago. As I recall, they are available in various levels of protection i.e. what round they will stop. As you go up in levels they get heavier and more cumbersome.The one I had was pretty bulky and I never wore it. I think they also have an expiration date. Not practical for everyday wear, unless you are in a combat zone.

Not sure whether you are trolling ...

On the off chance you are being serious - your proposition is nuts. Seriously, it is akin to wearing a life vest on any airplane that travels over water. You cannot live your life that way. Add the fact that vests only cover vital organs and offer only some defense. I have spent periods of time wearing full Army body armor, over-the-clothes vests, and concealed vests. They suck. They are thick, hot, bulky, uncomfortable. They cut into your underarms and your middle when you sit. It is not a viable option for daily wear.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Or Detroit!

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Long Chile was a silly place.

You need one that has pockets for your suppressors and extra clips.

I don't know. What is historicaly the weapon of choice for lunatics?

Not all day, every day...only when visiting US, Oregon maybe. OK, just kidding, but I was really curious about if anybody had first hand experience with them :-)

Social media

I can not tell you how effective it is, as I have not found my self the victim of some Lunatic yet, and none of the ongoing active shooter events have been close enough for me to run over to and get involved in. But I wear a Bullet Proof vest all the time, for just such a situation. Yes, its heavy, bulky and they do need to be replaced as the kevlar has a shelf life, but so far it has worked, with my pistol and Bullet Proof vest I have yet to be attacked.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

You might be able to find something relatively unobtrusive that can stop a pistol round, but anything that will stop something fired from a rifle will require heavy plates.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Just don't buy one from this company (if they do make bulletproof vests):

http://www.independent.co.uk/...f-vest-a6800171.html

Judging by the most recently (re)proposed AWB, it's anything with a barrel shroud. Doesn't matter though just be sure to test it first.

One should also fret about the possibility of knife attacks. That said, I'd recommend against this brand of stab-proof vests.

Seriously, it is akin to wearing a life vest on any airplane that travels over water.

I'm honestly curious, how is it any different then a need to conceal carry? Both are serving the exact same function, one defensive the other offensive, for the exact same scenario...someone trying to kill you with a weapon. If it is a irrational consideration for a vest then why is it not also an irrational consideration for conceal carry?

~Matt

Everything you want to know:

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Quick_Answers.shtml

I think the legal section is a little out of date. I'm pretty sure NYS also made them illegal last summer, but maybe not. I would certainly ask a LEO before buying one and wearing it.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

One is trying to stop an attack, the other is trying to survive the attack.

Neither is likely to be used but one is a lot less intrusive to normal daily life than the other.

Not everyone CC's solely for personal protection.


Why not take your point further and suggest anyone who carries a weapon should always sport full SWAT riot gear? After all, one shouldn't put one's $2 brain in front of a $0.50 bullet without something in between the two. It's because wearing riot gear (or a vest) is so impractical that doing so makes it border on irrational. Loads of examples related to actually carrying a weapon, but think prepper here: having emergency provisions is a good thing, but building a nuclear-proof bunker stocked with food for 2 years becomes irrational.

The fact that you say one is defensive and the other offensive undermines your claim that they are "serving the exact same function," does it not?

I disagree with your assessment that the sole, or even primary, reason for concealed carry is the proposition that someone is trying to kill you will a weapon. In addition, many "bullet proof vests" do not stop knife punctures. Vest do not protect your head, neck, arms, legs, and barely cover your chest.

Concealed carry can stop you from being attacked at all. A vest serves no such function. Concealed carry can prevent harm to another. A vest serves no such function.

Your conclusion that concealed carry is "offensive" is a disturbing misunderstanding of the reason for concealed carry.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

See these guys. I bought level 3 plates for my Carrier from them. Not practical for everyday use, but they have a lot of options. There new store is on two miles from my office.

Good guys, good prices. God bless America.

http://www.ar500armor.com

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

A few years back there was a sniper in dc. My family lived there and I frequently visited and interned there around that time. People were buying billet proof vests. Interestingly, the one my uncle bought wouldn't have worked against the round used.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

How about concealed carry of a food processor? According to The Economist, the odds of choking to death are 5 times more likely than being shot to death, roughly 100,000/1 vs. 500,000/1. Just to be safe, a prudent person should puree all food products into a smooth paste before consuming.

Lol. You're on a roll. Thanks for the laugh.

Anecdote.

I was perusing the local army/navy surplus. On a coat rack there were a number of Chinese "plate carriers". Really just MOLLE (in appearance only) vest with some glorified pockets they call plate carriers, all ready to fall apart the first time you put it on. No ballistic protection in and of itself. Plate inserts were required, not included of course. The vests were $50.

I was sneering at these when one caught my eye. Different camo pattern on it. I picked it up. NSN number on it. Ballistic tag: stops 9mm at up to 1500fps. Caution do not launder do not fold. If creased discard.

Price tag? Also $50.

So I bought it. This was over 10 years ago. I still have it. I'll likely never need it but for the price hell I had to get it.

Wow. For $50 I would have done the same. That's one of those things where, when I see it, I jump on it no matter how remote the need. Foolish? Maybe. But I would have been all over it.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Was the brand condor or utg? If so , that is for airsoft. Im amazed when I read the reviews for this and actual police officers use them.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Pretty sure we all do this. They're called "teeth".

One is trying to stop an attack, the other is trying to survive the attack.

How is shooting the other guy before they shoot you not trying to survive an attack? Furthermore both are predicated on a happening that is unlikely to happen, like wearing a life preserver in a plane over water.

Neither is likely to be used but one is a lot less intrusive to normal daily life than the other.

Depends on the fit of both does it not?

~Matt

The fact that you say one is defensive and the other offensive undermines your claim that they are "serving the exact same function," does it not?

Not at all, the function of both is to survive an attack. If Green Bay wants to win a game they can win it defensively or offensively...the function is to win the game.

I disagree with your assessment that the sole, or even primary, reason for concealed carry is the proposition that someone is trying to kill you will a weapon. In addition, many "bullet proof vests" do not stop knife punctures. Vest do not protect your head, neck, arms, legs, and barely cover your chest.

Concealed carry can stop you from being attacked at all. A vest serves no such function. Concealed carry can prevent harm to another. A vest serves no such function.

Your conclusion that concealed carry is "offensive" is a disturbing misunderstanding of the reason for concealed carry.

All of this is nice and all but is still predicated on some form of attack taking place in the same manner that wearing a life vest is predicated on a plane crashing over water. I'm not disagreeing that CC is more functional then a vest, I'm disagreeing with you statement that one is irrational and the other is completely rational.

CC is based entirely on some form of attack. Yes it allows you to protect others. Yes it may stop an attack, but all of this simply boils down to preventing an event that is unlikely to ever happen. A vest is predicated on the same thing, although only slightly less likely and with only slightly less function.

If CC is completely rational, thinking about wearing a vest is only slightly less rational not completely irrational.

~Matt

How about concealed carry of a food processor? According to The Economist, the odds of choking to death are 5 times more likely than being shot to death, roughly 100,000/1 vs. 500,000/1. Just to be safe, a prudent person should puree all food products into a smooth paste before consuming.

The "List of things we do everyday that are FAR more dangerous then the likelihood of an attack" is VERY long. I also have ZERO problem with protecting or planning for those events. If a person thinks that carrying a gun offers them a bit of protection, I'm all for it. My point is however that if a person believes that wearing a vest offers them a bit of protection that is no more irrational then wanting to carry a gun. For me I find the idea of carrying a gun burdensome and needless...same for a vest. I find it odd however that a person would claim "Everyone should CC...oh but wow dude you're nuts if you're looking into wearing a vest."

~Matt

Sort of like smoke detectors. Do you have any of those in your home? Check out the odds of being a victim of violent crime vs. the odds of a fire in your home.

There are some jackets that are from Israel that have IIIa level .

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I can survive an attack by running away from the field of battle. But, I cannot win a game by doing the same, now can I?




Again, you are wrong on your assumptions. You seem to believe a vest and a CC are premised on the same event, which is a mistaken premise upon which to base your conclusion. There is support for the position that an armed populace reduces the number of soft targets, thus having a deterrent affect on violence without ever having to draw the gun. A vest serves no similar purpose.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

There are a lot of jackets from the US that have IIIa level protection as well. I have worn them, but not by my own choice. I would never do so voluntarily.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I always thought the vest I got was for two things. Whoever breaks onto my property is more likely to run away when they see me. I won't have to shoot them if they decide they can't win and run away. I don't want a gun battle. And I'm less likely to get killed by police by accident. While I'm dealing with this the lady would be on the phone with the police. They show up gung ho. What happens? They've shot 911 callers before you know? In their own homes.

If you and your family are sitting around the house wearing ballistic vests, I'll bet the family pictures are awesome.

Sigh. Don't assume. Ask if you don't know. I'm an IT engineer nerd. My specialty is preparing for unlikely but catastrophic eventualities. Most such events, after they were handled wrong, in hindsight they were handled wrong because of poor planning due to failure of imagination.

Vest is in the same place where I keep the one gun I have for self defense. I haven't touched the vest since the week I bought it.

I can survive an attack by running away from the field of battle. But, I cannot win a game by doing the same, now can I?

Are you attempting to say people conceal carry to "Win the game" not to simple survive?

Again, you are wrong on your assumptions. You seem to believe a vest and a CC are premised on the same event, which is a mistaken premise upon which to base your conclusion. There is support for the position that an armed populace reduces the number of soft targets, thus having a deterrent affect on violence without ever having to draw the gun. A vest serves no similar purpose.

So your argument is that people conceal and carry based on some high ideal that by doing so they create a universal determinant effect and they don't conceal carry for a personal sense of protection...do you mind if I say you're full of shit :-) Nice try though.

People don't go out and get a weapon, go thru classes all to support the idea that it will in the long run lower the number of soft targets and that at some time in the future crime overall will fall and I will be safer. No, not a chance, not even close. They buy a gun thinking. "I have a gun and if someone attacks me I will defend myself and survive rather then be a victim and die". The exact same mentality is what a person would use to justify a vest and in fact the OP did exactly that. "If I get shot before I get a chance to pull my gun I will survive."

~Matt

I would be nervous to use the vest for a couple of reasons. First, when police arrive on scene, my guess is that a guy in a bulletproof vest is going to draw every muzzle and be treated with significantly more suspicion than anybody not wearing the vest, this would go double if you're also holding a firearm. Your chances of surviving being shot are likely greater (make sure you only get shot in the vest), but you chances of being shot in the confusion and commotion of the moment are also much, much greater in my estimation.

Rule #2 of gun fighting, don't get shot.

The second reason I'd be apprehensive of the vest is how that's going to look to a DA and a jury when you are defending your actions. The prosecuting attorney may just go after the fact that wearing a bulletproof vest implies that you were looking for a gunfight rather than using the gun as a last option in a life threatening situation. I think the odds of going to jail are significantly higher with the vest than without.


Of course, the scenarios and opinions are simply conjecture and should be mostly ignored as such.

Do you carry a gun?

Having a gun a gun does not by any means guarantee survival in case of an attack. A decent shooter with a good gun can kill several people by the time somebody reaches for his/her gun, loads, aims and shoots and hopefuly hits and kills the gunman. The vest of course doesn't guarantee survival either but it, I guess, increases the chances of survival which the gun, concealed or not, does not do in case you are among those first to be hit. I can see the point that they are unfomfortable. I understand both M.Juric and JSA's point of view, just not the "irational" part. Chances to be involved in a shooting are low, but then why carrie a gun at all?

Do you carry a gun?

No. Don't wear a vest either. Some years I don't even get a flu shot.

~Matt

I understand both M.Juric and JSA's point of view, just not the "irational" part.

The "Irrational" part is the only part I take exception to. If a person thinks it's rational to carry a gun for a certain amount of protection it is irrational to think that having a vest is irrational. They are both serving similar functions with similar amounts of probability and protection.

Like you said a gun does nothing if some shooter walks in and starts blazing away, a vest does. A vest does nothing if a person is shooting at someone else, a gun does. Both serve rational purposes against a rather small potential threat.

~Matt

That's it... I'm carrying a concealed fire extinguisher from now on.

Check out the odds of being a victim of violent crime vs. the odds of a fire in your home.

Odds of a fire are slightly higher then all violent crime. That being said I think you're missing my point. I do not think conceal and carry is an irrational behavior I think saying conceal carry is a rational behavior and wearing a vest is irrational is...well irrational.

A gun and a vest are protecting you from nearly the same thing under the same conditions. If conceal carry is rational, then wearing a vest is also rational.

I have smoke detectors but dont carry. I don't carry because I think MY odds of being a victim of crime is much lower then "National average". A large portion of violent crime takes place in certain areas under certain conditions...of which I try to stay away from. My odds of my house catching on fire are probably higher then national average because I live in a piece of shit house, with a crap boiler and shit wiring. In fact in the last 10 years our CO2 detector has been tripped twice from the boiler backing up and not venting properly.

Furthermore the effort to put up a fire detector, effect on my everyday life etc etc is near non existent. I don't have to carry it, don't have to mess with it, don't have to worry about the kid getting a hold of it etc etc. Change the batteries ever six months...done.

If I were living in or had to regularly visit more violent and dangerous areas of the area or country, I might consider conceal carry...or a vest.

~Matt

I'm not going to lie. I bought metal plate armor because it is cool. No way an I throwing that on if somebody breaks in. My plate carrier (not the chicom crap) and plates with gulls stock of mags weigh a lot. I have worn it shooting in the open desert. I will wear it without the plates next time a go 3-gunning. But I bought it for the cool factor, because I can, and I'll have something for when mass chaos happens, my family gets killed and I become a vigilante or if the purge becomes
A real thing.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Carrying a gun is a small inconvenience (though a large responsibility) with many potential uses in cases of violent crime. A vest is a huge inconvenience with only one limited use in cases of violent crime.

Rational really isn't really the point of debate IMO and I've never stated that wearing a vest is irrational, just impractical.

Plus knives go through them quite easily.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

That's what everyone that doesn't live in the US would like to know as well.

Because chances of being invilved in some way in a violent crime aren't actually very low.

And why is that?

Because all animals compete for limited resources.

No, you are saying that.



Sorry Matt, but you are the one who is making assumptions and all your assumptions are wrong.


Do you carry? Do you know anyone who does?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Ah, I found the answer. So, you don't carry, but you presume to know why people who carry do so. Wow.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I use something that is effective against both: If you don't appreciate excellent filmmaking, the relevant action begins

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

??? you go out without your dick sometimes ?? :-)

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RayGovett
Hughson CA
Be Prepared-- Strike Swiftly -- Who Dares Wins- Without warning-"it will be hard. I can do it"

Unfortunately LEO's often know little to nothing about laws. Many abide by the "figure it out in court" principle.

I'd avoid this particular brand of Israeli vest: http://www.bbc.com/...middle-east-35249191

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's