There are a lot of jackets from the US that have IIIa level protection as well. I have worn them, but not by my own choice. I would never do so voluntarily.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I always thought the vest I got was for two things. Whoever breaks onto my property is more likely to run away when they see me. I won't have to shoot them if they decide they can't win and run away. I don't want a gun battle. And I'm less likely to get killed by police by accident. While I'm dealing with this the lady would be on the phone with the police. They show up gung ho. What happens? They've shot 911 callers before you know? In their own homes.

If you and your family are sitting around the house wearing ballistic vests, I'll bet the family pictures are awesome.

Sigh. Don't assume. Ask if you don't know. I'm an IT engineer nerd. My specialty is preparing for unlikely but catastrophic eventualities. Most such events, after they were handled wrong, in hindsight they were handled wrong because of poor planning due to failure of imagination.

Vest is in the same place where I keep the one gun I have for self defense. I haven't touched the vest since the week I bought it.

I can survive an attack by running away from the field of battle. But, I cannot win a game by doing the same, now can I?

Are you attempting to say people conceal carry to "Win the game" not to simple survive?

Again, you are wrong on your assumptions. You seem to believe a vest and a CC are premised on the same event, which is a mistaken premise upon which to base your conclusion. There is support for the position that an armed populace reduces the number of soft targets, thus having a deterrent affect on violence without ever having to draw the gun. A vest serves no similar purpose.

So your argument is that people conceal and carry based on some high ideal that by doing so they create a universal determinant effect and they don't conceal carry for a personal sense of protection...do you mind if I say you're full of shit :-) Nice try though.

People don't go out and get a weapon, go thru classes all to support the idea that it will in the long run lower the number of soft targets and that at some time in the future crime overall will fall and I will be safer. No, not a chance, not even close. They buy a gun thinking. "I have a gun and if someone attacks me I will defend myself and survive rather then be a victim and die". The exact same mentality is what a person would use to justify a vest and in fact the OP did exactly that. "If I get shot before I get a chance to pull my gun I will survive."

~Matt

I would be nervous to use the vest for a couple of reasons. First, when police arrive on scene, my guess is that a guy in a bulletproof vest is going to draw every muzzle and be treated with significantly more suspicion than anybody not wearing the vest, this would go double if you're also holding a firearm. Your chances of surviving being shot are likely greater (make sure you only get shot in the vest), but you chances of being shot in the confusion and commotion of the moment are also much, much greater in my estimation.

Rule #2 of gun fighting, don't get shot.

The second reason I'd be apprehensive of the vest is how that's going to look to a DA and a jury when you are defending your actions. The prosecuting attorney may just go after the fact that wearing a bulletproof vest implies that you were looking for a gunfight rather than using the gun as a last option in a life threatening situation. I think the odds of going to jail are significantly higher with the vest than without.


Of course, the scenarios and opinions are simply conjecture and should be mostly ignored as such.

Do you carry a gun?

Having a gun a gun does not by any means guarantee survival in case of an attack. A decent shooter with a good gun can kill several people by the time somebody reaches for his/her gun, loads, aims and shoots and hopefuly hits and kills the gunman. The vest of course doesn't guarantee survival either but it, I guess, increases the chances of survival which the gun, concealed or not, does not do in case you are among those first to be hit. I can see the point that they are unfomfortable. I understand both M.Juric and JSA's point of view, just not the "irational" part. Chances to be involved in a shooting are low, but then why carrie a gun at all?

Do you carry a gun?

No. Don't wear a vest either. Some years I don't even get a flu shot.

~Matt

I understand both M.Juric and JSA's point of view, just not the "irational" part.

The "Irrational" part is the only part I take exception to. If a person thinks it's rational to carry a gun for a certain amount of protection it is irrational to think that having a vest is irrational. They are both serving similar functions with similar amounts of probability and protection.

Like you said a gun does nothing if some shooter walks in and starts blazing away, a vest does. A vest does nothing if a person is shooting at someone else, a gun does. Both serve rational purposes against a rather small potential threat.

~Matt

That's it... I'm carrying a concealed fire extinguisher from now on.

Check out the odds of being a victim of violent crime vs. the odds of a fire in your home.

Odds of a fire are slightly higher then all violent crime. That being said I think you're missing my point. I do not think conceal and carry is an irrational behavior I think saying conceal carry is a rational behavior and wearing a vest is irrational is...well irrational.

A gun and a vest are protecting you from nearly the same thing under the same conditions. If conceal carry is rational, then wearing a vest is also rational.

I have smoke detectors but dont carry. I don't carry because I think MY odds of being a victim of crime is much lower then "National average". A large portion of violent crime takes place in certain areas under certain conditions...of which I try to stay away from. My odds of my house catching on fire are probably higher then national average because I live in a piece of shit house, with a crap boiler and shit wiring. In fact in the last 10 years our CO2 detector has been tripped twice from the boiler backing up and not venting properly.

Furthermore the effort to put up a fire detector, effect on my everyday life etc etc is near non existent. I don't have to carry it, don't have to mess with it, don't have to worry about the kid getting a hold of it etc etc. Change the batteries ever six months...done.

If I were living in or had to regularly visit more violent and dangerous areas of the area or country, I might consider conceal carry...or a vest.

~Matt

I'm not going to lie. I bought metal plate armor because it is cool. No way an I throwing that on if somebody breaks in. My plate carrier (not the chicom crap) and plates with gulls stock of mags weigh a lot. I have worn it shooting in the open desert. I will wear it without the plates next time a go 3-gunning. But I bought it for the cool factor, because I can, and I'll have something for when mass chaos happens, my family gets killed and I become a vigilante or if the purge becomes
A real thing.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Carrying a gun is a small inconvenience (though a large responsibility) with many potential uses in cases of violent crime. A vest is a huge inconvenience with only one limited use in cases of violent crime.

Rational really isn't really the point of debate IMO and I've never stated that wearing a vest is irrational, just impractical.

Plus knives go through them quite easily.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

That's what everyone that doesn't live in the US would like to know as well.

Because chances of being invilved in some way in a violent crime aren't actually very low.

And why is that?

Because all animals compete for limited resources.

No, you are saying that.



Sorry Matt, but you are the one who is making assumptions and all your assumptions are wrong.


Do you carry? Do you know anyone who does?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Ah, I found the answer. So, you don't carry, but you presume to know why people who carry do so. Wow.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I use something that is effective against both: If you don't appreciate excellent filmmaking, the relevant action begins

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

??? you go out without your dick sometimes ?? :-)

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RayGovett
Hughson CA
Be Prepared-- Strike Swiftly -- Who Dares Wins- Without warning-"it will be hard. I can do it"

Unfortunately LEO's often know little to nothing about laws. Many abide by the "figure it out in court" principle.

I'd avoid this particular brand of Israeli vest: http://www.bbc.com/...middle-east-35249191

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's