don't see much room for improvement. if you went carbon you could shape the bits that stick out to be a bit more aero i guess =)

you could have grooves or holes for internal cabling

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

You could offer different bends, S/R/J and wrist relief with John Cobb =]

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ishi no ue ni san nen | Perseverance will win in the end. | Blog | @nebmot | Strava | Instagram |

Yep that was one of my ideas also.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

Yeah, one way to do this would be to have the extensions separate and you could swap different extensions in as you mentioned.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

´S´shaped bars are currently more popular than the ´J´ shape of the original. Oops, just seen someone mentioned that already.

I´d buy one. There don´t seem to be any in Europe (or at least on eBay Germany!)

It would be great to have a specific thread for pictures of ´Aod´ and Scott 100k set ups for inspiration. That way they would all be in one place on the site, and AFAICR there have been a number of different and ingenious solutions to the problem of getting shifters, cables and brake levers all on one ´wishbone of death´.

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

a friend had a set of these in the 80's on his "funny bike" --- cool!

I'd vote for having the handgrips closer together - but not as close as they were on the Extremes (or the ultra-rare 100k Extremes). IOW, have just enough space between the extensions to fit the fingers of both hands, with your knuckles touching.

Here's another idea, that I think would be as good with more adjustability:

A really narrow basebar (the same width (28cm)):

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Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

That is similar to the "mini MTB bars" that I used for the Superman position back in the mid 1990s - only difference is that my basebar was straight, w/ DiaCompe 188 brake levers plugged into the ends.

I think with a straight bar though, the bar needs to be wider to get past the elbow pads----also this would have less round bar into the wind.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

Not necessarily - my base bar was only ~25 cm wide, i.e., just wide enough for my two hands plus the stem clamp. Obviously it would depend, though, on how the elbow pads were positioned/shaped.

I like some of the elements from the Scott Extreme - particularly in the way that the extensions were so close that you could grab both with one hand. However, the wrist relief bends are also appealing. Not sure if both these suggestions could co-exist.

Gabbie, can you post some more pictures of your various Scott setups, if you have a moment?
Cheers
Simon

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

Hey Andrew,

Im not sure if you will be able to set me straight, but for some reason I remember that there was testing done on both the 100k and the scott extremes (I went through two sets of these), and the drag numbers were worse than the base-bar/aero bar combo. I took it as a surprise at the time, as I thought that they 'looked' the fastest. My recollection was that the testing was done pre-slowtwitch, and appeared on RST a bunch of years ago (maybe back around 2000ish). Am I remembering this completely wrong? This was the main reason that I abandoned the extremes and went to a vision tech base bar/ clipon (well that, and I got a set of vision techs for near nothing).

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

I think your short basebar idea is good, but you can combine that idea with your scott bar idea. For one, you can have a lot more leeway in how tight you make the various bends of the re-born scott bar, i.e., you can make the bends a lot tighter, as extreme as the alloy tubing will withstand. The reason the scott 100k bar had such gentle bends was not for reasons of ergonomics, or fit, or aerodynamics, it was so that users could get a 'closed' clamp stem on to the bars. Since now 99% of stems have completely 'open' clamps, you can go crazy and make a bar that is 100% functional.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Andrew,

That is exactly what I am going to do with my Profile Stoker bars I just bought. Cut the bars down just about the same width as pictured below but only with a straight bar and plug my Tektro carbon levers in the end facing forwards. This will give me a bit of a hand hold holding onto the ends and when I really need to brake, I can flip up the pads and have access to my brakes.

I will try to pair this with maybe a HED 3rd brake lever up on the bars to have the ability to scrub a bit of speed when needed.

Don't mess with perfection! I'd buy a pair of reproductions.

Cheers,

Jim

I like the idea of these bars maybe having tighter bends and having the extensions just close enough to mount a Garmin/Powermeter right between the extensions. Maybe with a tighter bend you can have the extensions more straight from the last bend forward. More straight as well instead of them sort of angling in.

I think the more pictures we can see of current set ups the better.

What are the thoughts on maybe finding a happy medium between standard and AoD set ups.

Um...you had better make sure that some patent lawyers are not watching this thread....


26.0 please, no internal cables - that is why we have bar tape, and you dont want to mess with the machining and chamfer needed to get the tube set for aero shifters

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

You are right, I also remember that (Was it in Winning?)

If I recall, the Blackbird (vapor ware), the CarbonX and a few others were much better off "With Rider". BUT, they also had period "Fish hook" style brake levers (standard road levers pointing forward) and Quill stems on non-IS bikes. It was more of a now - vs - then rather than a head to head equal comparo. I also cant remember if it was a 100k or the DH bar.

What I think is missing from this as well as the Retro thread is the best shifting system EVER for aero bars - GRIP SHIFT!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Have you tried the CeeGees mounts? About the only thing I don't like about them is I wish I could move them outboard just slightly...since they clamp on the straight part of the bar they end up fairly narrow. Although, I do have to say I've gotten used to my elbows being in so close. But, I'm sure others might not like them that narrow...

I agree on bringing the "handgrip" portions in closer together...also, maybe the "loops" could have a short straight section in the middle of them (running fore-aft)?

A very low profile brake lever made specifically for that bar that could be mounted on the outer portions of the "loops" pointing down would be a nice addition as well.

Actually...this all gave me an alternate idea :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Not sure that's an issue.

WTB Dirt Drop bars were selling for upwards of $150 a set on eBay.



Then On One recreated them and sells them for $50 retail.



They made a few small changes to the bar so it wasnt identical, but it was. Not really sure how a set of bends in a bar can be patented. If I change a few things about them, seems like it would be fine.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

Well...I field tested the Scott 100K bars with the CX levers on the insides of the loops to be ~0.5-1 s/km faster than the same arm position with a Vision aluminum basebar, Profile T2+ extensions/pads, and Tektro brake levers...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Dont think it was in RST, I just did an extensive search.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

Separate front inserts for different preferred aero bar ends.

Modify the shape so a front mounted drinking system will fit in there easily

Internal cable routing (holes will likely be cheaper than grooves)

Good idea tho

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Meh...I've got a set of 8sp DA Grip shifters that I could have used on the 100K bar (and also put the "bridge" in place)...but, IMHO they're a bit bulky...not too mention limiting me to 8 speed. I actually like the slightly higher hand position that running my regular bar-end shifters upside down affords.

Don't worry though...those shifters aren't going to waste. They're installed on my '86 Bianchi Sport SX as bar end shifters on the drops :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I think it is a great idea...but, I would not be shocked if someone at Profile, Scott (who is still around) or Leonard was to drop a meanie letter.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

R10 you must be conflicted about this thread

on the one hand its ridiculous aero weenie stuff
on the other, its so wonderfully retro!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Aerobars that are up to 3lbs lighter than current bars...I am all for that.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

my science, you are a weight weenie?!?!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Keep in mind that patent life in the US is limited to 20 years for most things ... so, if these were introduced in 1990 or earlier, their patent has likely expired.

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TriRig.com
The Triathlon Gear Guide

I don't recall ever seeing any wind tunnel data for the Scott 100k bars. However, Dr. Jim Martin (hi Jim! <g>) did some handlebar (and helmet) testing for Project 96 that included the Scott Extremes. Compared to round cowhorns + clip-ons, they were actually slightly less aerodynamic, possible because their mouthharp shape meant that there were two sections of round tubing crossing the wind.

Hmmm....judging by his response above ("Don't mess with perfection! I'd buy a pair of reproductions.") I would guess the 100Ks aren't as bad as the Extremes...pure speculation though ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

As I indicated, I don't think Jim ever tested the 100k bars. I agree, though, that their narrowness/lesser curvature than the Extremes makes it seem likely that they are more aero, although not necessarily more aero than modern conventional bars.

(I need to dig up the old pics of my Shogun/Nishiki 24"/700C funny bike fitted with Scott 100k bars and post 'em to the retro thread. Come to think of it, I should have some pics of it fitted with Scott Extreme bars as well, which are what I used on it during my 2 y as a duathlete.)

Maybe if somebody finally gave you back your tubing bender you could just make some? ;-)

The drop in CdA I measured going from the Vision/Profile T2+ setup to the 100Ks implies that they can be...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

can you just zip-tie the things narrower?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

HA! I wondered where that thing had gone! Bikie!

Not really...they're fairly stiff.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I think it's an open question. I really don't consider the set up to which you compared it to be that ideal. The brake levers are pretty clunky, and the hardware on the Profile bars seems less-than ideal. Also, if you used the stock Profile arms rests, those alone could be adding some drag. Add into that the variability of field testing... I'm not saying it's not faster, just that I'm not convinced.


Personally, I'd still put my slightly-modified one-piece Vision bar up against it. Of course, there's that UCI thing...

Do you feel you lose anything at the start/turnaround? (better question: how long does it take you to do the first 1000 feet of a flat TT with that set-up).

Nope...not at all. I'll look at the start and turnaround from the 20K TT I did on Sunday sometime tonight and get back on that.

In any case, I don't think those sections of a 20K or 40K course are anywhere near as critical to overall time as they would be for, let's say, a track sprint event or a pursuit ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

 
They aren't listed on the CeeGees website, but you can usually find them selling the "transformer arm rest plates" on ebay...like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item2556e6f61c

Like I mentioned earlier though, on the 100Ks the set angle of the arm rests and the limited straight section of the bar tends to put them in a position where each arm rest is "pointing" at the opposite shifter location. I've gotten used to that though, and it's not uncomfortable at all...there's still a lot of "leeway" in how you place your elbows/forearms in the cups.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Those are the same pair that I am giving to Jackmott for the 100k bars that he just bought. Also send him some Jagwire Shifter mounts. I can not wait to see his set up.

Yep I bought a set too.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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I have owned and used both the scott extremes and 100k and the 100k is a MUCH narrower bar...

If the extremes were slow (not surprising, like was mentioned harp, 2x round sections) the 100ks would definately be faster as the narrowness of the bars definately (especially in Tom's position) tend to lead and drag the arms:

http://www.printroom.com/...e_id=262&pos=263

Oh, and BMAN, keep cutting:



g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

I could have bought those bars off of JEFF that had them before Christmas but I am thinking that I do not want to go that extreme. I would like to have a bit more bar and mount the brake levers under the armrest like Andrew had mentioned. I am not looking for a set up like pictured above but something more like a TWEENER set up. More aero than what I am using now but I want to play around with the set up so that I can actually use them in races as well.

Greg. What is the drag on the brake levers sticking down like that. I know that the Vision's are pretty narrow but it can not be good having them stick out like that.

Would it be better to have them mounted up higher on the extensions and in like with them so that they are more invisible?

Hehehe...I feel like I'm fostering some sort of 100K bar revival ;-)

BTW, for any of you folks wondering how the handling is with them on the bike...I took my TT bike up and down a local twisty 3 mile, 8% grade hill today twice...the second time with a group. I had no problems leading/staying with the group the second time down. For those with motorcycle experience...the key to cornering with those bars is a heavy dose of countersteering :-)

To get a feel for the descent...check out this cool vid of some guys going down the same hill on longboard skateboards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkviQ41u0eQ

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I think this pic captures the narrowness a bit better ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yep great pic.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

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The jagwire shifter mounts that you were supposed to send to me????...but didnt????

have you thought of a way to attach a waterbottle or an aerobottle to those?

Dan

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http://www.aiatriathlon.com

Nope...then again, I haven't given it any thought.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Sounds like a job for the new multi-file range analysis now found in WKO+ 3.0. ;-)

First 329 m after start w/ cowhorns: 32.0 s @ 349 W
First 334 m after turn w/ cowhorns: 33.0 s @ 359 W

First 334 m after start w/ aero-or-die: 31.0 s @ 376 W
First 338 m after turn w/ aero-or-die: 35.0 s @ 334 W

Same Wednesday evening 15 km TT done ~1 y apart...no significant differences in all-up mass, air density, Crr, or gear ratio (53 x 12 fixed gear).

In discussion about them I got the feeling that you did not want them and a straight across trade was fine.

PM if you need to discuss!

are your 100ks faster on the cervelo or the specialised?

I think a good thing to do would be determine a specific brake lever to be used and adapt the bends / cable routing specifically for those brake levers

Some one actually bought the QR CD 0.1 - Cool and I can not wait to see the finished prouduct.

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

They are faster than my old bars on whatever bike they are on....

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

bumping an old thread.

did the new design go through? any other suggestions to improve the scott 100k bar?

That is super cool. Very "Kent Bostick".

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Did anything ever come of this? I have googled my brains out looking for 100k's the better part of a year

Well, yes and no.

I had these made by a local welder, but never used them. They're sitting in a cabinet in the garage now.

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Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

dude that is some SWEET action!

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Michael in Fresno
"Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" V. Corleone

very clever! How wide are the bars at the widest point? I'm not sure if I could go more narrow than the scott 100k's 25cm.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...string=100k;#3117571

14.5cm outside to outside

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Lovely job Jeremy.
As you know, I got as far as the diagram for my S bend 100k repro bars but no further!!
Have you put those bars on the P4 Alu project, or has that creation been sold?

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

The bike sold on ebay to a user from Slowtwitch, so it stayed in the "family".

If someone wants to buy those bars off of me, make me an offer --- I've been purging a lot of stuff over the last couple months.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

Just in case any of the ST 100K'ers have decided to part ways......look no further than my PM.

I have been digging around my old parts bin for an arm cup solution and found some Scott's and some Mavic's. Anyone else using anything different on theirs that I might be hunting for in the event I ever run across some 100k's to complete the setup? My stockpile is just a bit narrow and not deep enough for my liking.

Thanks