You missed some of the most obvious. So far they have really listened to what the athletes want...better swag, better race transfer policy and in general, better customer service.
I am very interested to see how they handle the drafting issue. If they can really enfore it, I am sold on the series 100%. Right now, I am only 95%. ;)

The distance is fantastic.

have you signed up? that is the way i support something.

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"No one ever told me they made black fondant!" - Duff Goldman

Have a link to the races or a main page?

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"I have no fear of losing my life - if I have to save a koala or a crocodile or a kangaroo or a snake, mate, I will save it. "
Steve Irwin

tom, if it were a 4K swim, I would agree with you, and they really listened to the athletes.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

- and -
Recovery time is less! Bonus!

100% right on - these guys have done some nice things but ignored a very real issue in the swim

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

Tom

What about location, location, location? I don't see that in your points. Personally, I don't see the allure of going to Woodlands, TX. I know Shannon and his races are TOP NOTCH - not quite 5430 quality, but very, very well done. However, if I am baby boomer (I am not) and I have money to spend, I am taking my family to a desitnation race - in CA, in FL - somewhere warm where my spouse can shop and enjoy herself. Woodlands, TX? Is this like Boulder in 1980 and I don't know it? If it is, then Great!

What is going to be the catch for AGers? Swag? AGers want swag over an IM Kona slot?

Mike

Although a very happy Coke drinker since my first IMC in '93, I too am excited about the series. I hope they do a great job and offer a race product on par with the various WTC events I've done over the years. If they do step up, I hope the alternative will take some of the pressure off the WTC events and IMC won't have to start 3,000 next year.

Real time internet media coverage has been successfully pioneered. The FREE live streaming coverage from Kona this year was incredible. We can only hope the 101 folks can offer as much.

Time will tell.

Tom - there is another side to why this race may become popular, and that is the crowd you have omitted from your statements - those of us trying to work our way to doing our first iron distance.

Outside of the issues of deciding to register for an IM branded event or an iron distance (cost, time of year, etc) - this provides a new series of race venues that could act as a bridge to the full iron distance. I started tri this year, and figure I will need several more years of building distance and skill before I am ready to tackle an iron without it just being a slog through the race. This is a nice intermediate stepping stone between the half and full iron that could be part of a growth plan for people like me. Add to that these look like they will be quality events in areas worth making the trip to, and you really have something.

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

I think tht this will be a really popular distance as well. I look forward to trying one out in 2008.

Tom, I elect you to champion our cause for a race in the midwest!

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

I think it is:
http://www.trioneoone.com

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

"Tom - there is another side to why this race may become popular, and that is the crowd you have omitted from your statements - those of us trying to work our way to doing our first iron distance. "


Agree completely. I'm in that boat and thrilled to have a race that's longer than a half and shorter than a full!

now if only they'd make the swim a teensy bit longer for us fish!

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Yep, they could have bragged they have the best "triathlon", but instead, seems they ignored a real tri where all three parts mean something. I have to be honest that I just see it as another distance now. Still trying to find some ITU o2 races, since these will be the best long distance real tri from what I can see now.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Tom,
I don't mean to rain on your enthusiasm but I don't think 101 is going take over from Ironman anytime soon. yes i think it's a great distance, and yes I think it's a challenge to many people, but unfotunately it's not IRONMAN. And as we look at the number of 1st timers at every IM (many places almost half) you can't really expect any of those people to make their first LD triathlon a "101" - no one knows what that is.

For the same reason the 20miler as a running distance race is almost never run. it's not a marathon and it's not a half-marathon.

I think using ST as a athlete pool you will see a lot of pro-101 comments, but I doubt there are enough STers to fill 3x 1500 athletes for some pretty out of the way locations. Seriously - Halifax? That isn't exactly Phoenix or Madison in terms of ease of travel.

Not to be too negative, but I would be shocked it any of the races fill to over 1000 this year - and bet they will be closer to 500-600 each.

I agree it's a good start and hopefully will catch on. I'll be eager to see what happens, but for me I would only do one of the races if it were in my home state or within 5 hours driving - and unfortunately none of them are.

I'm considering Bradenton since it is the very first. That would be so cool. There is only one first race!

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Maybe it's just me, but I'm a bit hesitant to jump on the "this is going to be huge" wagon.

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Fortitudine Vincimus

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___________________________________



http://irondad06.blogspot.com/

http://irondad.blogspot.com/

[reply]For the same reason the 20miler as a running distance race is almost never run. it's not a marathon and it's not a half-marathon.[/reply]

Bingo. Training for the 101 will be nearly as intensive as training for an IM, without being able to say you did an IM (yes, most people do care about that). I fear it will fizzle in a couple of years, although I hope I'm wrong.

I tend to to agree with this. IM is going to be tough to unseat. Kona slots mean a lot to people. Without them, I have a difficult time wanting to sign up.

What I may use this distance for is to learn how to go long. Use these races to stepping stones to increase endurance.

One last thing, booms are started by testing limits. These races are shorter than IM, so who is the target athlete? As a person that has already done IM, I am not sure I want to go shorter, unless as I mentioned it is a purpose. No matter what, I don't see these becoming my "A" race.

Tom, the two points I have issue with are interlinked to location. With due respect to the residents of the four cities they are not destination locations that fill me with excitement. I am sure that Brandenton, Halifax, Woodlands and Clearlake are lovely places but they are not Nice, Phuket, Kona or San Francisco and would take a hard sell to partners. Secondly, they are squarely aimed at the North American market and have little cachet for overseas visitors which is ignoring a huge market and one already catered for by IMNA. The website stated that in 2008 there will be 20 races worldwide but that is a bold statement and an enormous step from four domestic races.

That said I wish the organisers well and would race at one in a future "desirable" location. Maybe "101 Maui"!

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Forget the midwest -- lets get one here in Virginia - Smith Mountain Lake is gorgeous, you could easily engineer a challenging bike from there towards the Blue Ridge Mountains, and still have some nice areas within the state park for running. Our state needs a big event.

Good facilities around the area as well, and Roanoke is only 30 minutes away for more urban types.

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

Hope it does do well.

Mark me down for one that is fine with the "shorter" swim. I thought most of us wanted shorter swims anyway.

Also, will this appeal to those who had a less than good run at the end of an IM?

The pioneering of media coverage could be good for all, as IM and 70.3 events may have to offer equal coverage to keep up with the market. Heck, the swag may get better at other events also!

i agree with you, and i hope i am wrong as well. because everyone likes a selection and competition is good for all involved.

i think a better analogy than the one tom gave is imna/wtc/ironman events are like microsoft and everyone else is some derivative of unix. you do have your apple os 10's out there (tri-california (wildflower), sommer sports (gft)......), but at best most are just linux. i think imna/wtc will have to bring themselves down before anyone else will.

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"No one ever told me they made black fondant!" - Duff Goldman

Julian:

I couldn't agree more...101 Maui would be an excellent choice. I was just there & also recently watched the coverage of the Maui Marathon, so there is plenty of road for running. Maui would be an excellent championship location. I am considering the Clearlake event since I live in the SF Bay area, but if I get into the Escape From Alcatraz, that slot would be hard to pass up. One-O-One is only moderately compelling as a brand. Perhaps, if the swim was lenghtened as some suggest, a new more powerful brand ID could be created. It is an interesting development & I hope this does well. The only thing that matters is people voting with their feet.

-Tim

How about one in Vancouver Julian. I think it would be great to have a race in this distance locally in a destination city like Vancouver. You could move over her full time and run this and other races.

I'd sign up for 101 Maui tomorrow! I am hoping on a slot on Saturday for Alcatraz too (good luck) that would rescue my season and give it some shape.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

• 101 has a distance that will likely appeal to all those who have already done Ironman/IMNA/WTC events. I'm not sure I see the logic there because some like short, some like long, and this might be argued as in-between which is often a dangerous place to be in marketing Do not forget the money WTC has thrown at unifying 70.3 a s a viable brand worldwide. And the fact WTC entered into direct competition with IMNA with IMKY 2007 and possinly more North American Ironman (branded) events.
• 101 will appeal to these athletes because of the frustrations they have had with IMNA/WTC/Ironman events. how much frustration is there being as every event sells out, and what frustrations might appear with 101 events? While some might say there is frustration with WTC/IMNA the numbers simply don't support the consumer has made a decision otherwise, the races have sold out at record pace this year, notebly IMWI 2007 in 21 minutes. Non-Ironman branded races still alwasy have spots even on race day (or close to), think GFT or Silverman.
• There has been little or no real competition for IMNA/WTC/Ironman events until 101. There is a "Coke" but no "Pepsi". 101 is the "Pepsi" to WTC/IMNA's "Coke". good analogy... and every year, regardless of what Pepsi does, Coke out-sells them What is crystal clear from the #'s is that most (not just ST's who post) want to do M-Dot or 70.3 M-Dot races and somehow find prestige in this form of brand-marketing. The only real issue to me is how the WTC/IMNA relationship will play out in terms of more/less North American M-Dot races.
• 101 will pioneer media coverage in real time with internet coverage- the new media of choice among the athletes doing the event. Everyone will want to be in the show. pioneer? maybe I misunderstand, but if IMNA/WTC did it first, how did 101 pioneered it? WTC/IMNA both have used great media outlets for their events, OLN/Versus, race day boradcasts by internet. Adding the ability to Podcast will, IMHO, be meaningless in terms of raw entries.
• 101 is coming along when the timing is really right. or too late... the IronMan juggernaut has a pretty full head of steam True timing is everything. But IMNA and WTC have been quite good at picking desitnation races (yes, some might like Miami or Orlando over Panama City) but 1/5-2 hours from SF California might not be the same draw. It must be noted that race organizers plan races not on 15-20 ST posters but the median racer and their demogrpahic, which Irondad pointed out so well.

Personally, I think the 101 owners should draw strength in numbers and partner with IMNA (now NA Sports) to be able to draw upon their vast experience in running large events. I too am exited about the 101 endeveur and wish them the best possible outcome. I think alot will change in the triathlon long distance arena in 2007 and after IMKY (and how well that events goes). It is clear that the North American triathlon consumer was not tapped out with IMKY selling out in 10 days (I think) on the same day as IM Canada. The real issue is how someone, IMNA, WTC, etc. will enter other larger markets like Chicago, LA, San Fran, Atlanta, Seatle, Dallas/Houston, etc. Elasticity of demand is obviously quite loose in this market, for now.
I'm pretty excited about this 101 series... as am I, but only next year will tell

Don't tempt me, Brian. I should get together with Teri Taylor and see if they would get into on road tris to compliment her brilliant XTC series.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Mike,

Agree with you that location is the key. Hopefully Shannon has found some sites that the other guys missed!

i'm excited too! it's sure to be a smashing success.

I hope they do well so we all have choices, but personally like others have said ... the sites selected leave a lot to be desired and personally I think its a strange distance. We'll all see how the races fair this year realistically .... not just when hyped up by their ST advocates. ST has too many IM naysayers who always jump on the electronic bandwagon but probably won't do a 101 race either.
I still think IMNA(NAS) is the best by FAR but will keep an open mind .... I'm a committed coke drinker. Give me more good coke! ... maybe pepsi in a pinch.
Dave

Wowch. I was able to follow the Coke/Pepsi analogy, but I'm lost on this one! Come someone please translate this one for a guy who just uses a CPU to log into slowtwitch and procrastinate work? ; )

Actually, recent history is full of stories of market dominators who have lost their position. Sometimes it takes a long time (IBM, Xerox), sometimes it happens virtually overnight (iTunes seems to be headed that way). Pepsi came from a very small market share position to become a serious challenger to Coke, particularly in the 80s (hence, Coke's "need" to introduce New Coke). Who's to say that Ironman won't be challenged in the near future, especially given the relative infancy of the triathlon "industry"?

I would think that the current situation with Ironman races (sell-outs a year ahead of tiem, ever higher entry fees, some increasingly displeased participants) is volatile, at best. ITU vacating the LD championship only opens the door more for a third party to come in and capitalize. Something will have to happen, even if it takes some years to reach some sort of stable solution.

Tom D.

Are you still going to do IMNA (M-Dot) Wisconsin next year?

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Lar Dog

The first couple of years will make or break the series. I am pretty certain that I will do the Halifax event next year, but I don't know whether I would travel anywhere to do it.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

the price tag is a problem. 300 bux ?? !!! ??

m-dot can get away with their price, as their events can and do gravytrain with each other on the allure of " IM " which is a draw bigger than the event itself - that draw rises to the level of cultural phenomenon. 3 bills for "just another triathlon", no matter how nicely run or what is in the swag-bag, is going to scare away much of the potential market IMHO.

I don't see the price tag as much of a problem. These aren't like a local race series that need to have a lower price. They are hoping to get people travelling to them, and if you only do one or 2 a year, big whoop. A better price would be $200, but considering how long roads will need to be closed (not much less than a full IM, maybe 14 hours??) I think that the price tag isn't bad.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I think that $300 entry fee is pretty much what the market will bare.

You know yourself from being on this forum as long as you have that there are a lot of posts that are critical of IMNA/WTC/Ironman events. I think a lot of the criticism is unfair but it may be a significant enough catalyst to give another long distance race series a foot hold.

With very few exceptions every brand has a life span. I am not, in any way, infering that Ironman has run its course. I am a big supporter of IMNA/WTC and Ironman events. I've done Hawaii, Canada twice and New Zealand as well as the Ford Ironman 70.3 Whirlpool Steelhead. Absolutely top notch, showcase events. I truthfully found nothing to critisize.

I will say people are looking for an alternative. I see it frequently on the forums and hear it in our store. I also like the alternative distance that is 101.

This dog will hunt.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"However, if I am baby boomer (I am not) and I have money to spend, I am taking my family to a desitnation race - in CA, in FL - somewhere warm where my spouse can shop and enjoy herself. Woodlands, TX?..."

This will be no problem....There is a place called Market Street right there where while you are pedaling/running away, spouses can shop for anything, sit at Starbuck's, have lunch at Tommy Bahamas, see a movie, etc. Very nice. Then, across the road is your traditional indoor mall, with a new outdoor area (that is on the waterway referred to) where there is PF Chang's, Cheesecake Factory, etc. Border/Barnes Noble, etc.

With kids there is plenty to do as well and if you want to drive a little you can hit NASA, a Texans game, the Galleria, etc. Another good thing, only about 30 minutes or so from the airport...a real airport with big jets and direct flights from many places in the world.

No, don't work for The Woodlands and understand the comment about a venue choice, but I think it will do very well and participants will be very pleased.

I agree with you on all points.

If I were the 101 series, I would be looking to hire away some of the race organization staff from IMNA/WTC to make sure that these events go off without a hitch. Do you think IMNA was savvy enough to have its key personnel sign non-competes?

My only issue with the series is the location of the west coast event. Seemed like they could have done better with a socal event (since I'm in San Diego, I tend to think SoCal is the center of the universe) :-) In all seriousness, clearlake is close to nothing and that may make it tough for it to get a foothold...As an example, Wildflower has a great reputation, is incredibly well-run and still doesn't sell out until months after registration opens.

I really like the distance too.

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__________________
JP

my twitter feed

I'd agree with you, but there are (2) major flaws -

Scaleability.
Prize Money.

If you have a moment, say more about each. I'm interested.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I agree and disagree with the locations, atleast Bradenton. I live about 15 miles from the Bradenton race site, in Sarasota. I hate going to Bradenton, we call it Bradentuckey, but it is actually a great town on the Gulf Coast. This area of Florida, the Suncoast, has hundreds of thousands of people visiting every year from other parts of the country. Mostly during the Winter and Spring. During the Summer the area is overflowing with Germans and other Europeans.

The race site is also about 20 minutes from where St. Anthony's is put on. Not sure on the number but I think S.A. gets 2500 participants every year(granted a long running Olympic distance race). There is a lot to offer with beachs and great weather in Bradentucky just dont look for a lot of night life.

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Yes

"I think it would be great to have a race in this distance locally in a destination city like Vancouver."

Indeed, Vancouver with a swim in English Bay, from say Kits or Spanish Banks Beach, and the cycling options of Stanley park and up around UBC and then a run out and back along the English Bay beach trails or the sea wall in Stanley Park offers perhaps one of the most spectacular big city triathlon venues in North America or the world. However, their is a reason for everything, and without getting into too much detail, their were some triathlon event promoters and directors who years ago( early 90's) did not leave a good impression on the city and pretty much put the lid on having any multisport events of any significance in downtown Vancouver for years. City councillers, politicians and the people who issue permits for this sort of thing have long memories. Not sure if the situation has improved. Even if this sort of thing were to get the go-ahead, the traffic headaches would be a nightmare.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Could you please post another thread whining about the swim distance? The swim is the biggest barrier to many athletes in doing a longer event, so although you don't like it, overall it enhances the event in most people's eyes. The swim is about the same ratio as a HIM or IM, so it sounds about right. I am not a swim stud, but agree a longer swim would be more equitable; however the main good argument in favor of longer swims is how it will spread out the field and limit drafting issues. Let's give these guys a chance and see how drafting goes before criticizing their swim distance.

Good luck with the ITU races, I hope you have a lot of frequent flier miles and enjoy racing long course against 40 people.

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*********************
"When I first had the opportunity to compete in triathlon, it was the chicks and their skimpy race clothing that drew me in. Everyone was so welcoming and the lifestyle so obviously narcissistic. I fed off of that vain energy. To me it is what the sport is all about."

I don't know about the other venues, but it would be pretty easy to make a challenging bike course in Halifax. Lots of hills around here.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I spoke with a fella about the course in Texas today also and it sounds like it may be quite a gem. The swim there is likely to be nice too.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I don't think the 101 series will last because:

"Watered Down Ironman" - t will be viewed as a "Watered Down Ironman".

Weak Not Wanting to do a Full Ironman -I don't think this, but many people will have the perception that people chose the 101 distance because they were weak at one of the disciplines. Already, people weak in the swim wanted a shorter swim, and people weak on the run wanted a shorter run. It just gives off the impression that the 101 event is for the "weak" not wanting to do a full Ironman.

Those Who Are Using it to Bridge Up to an Ironman - People who are using it as training or to gain experience before they do an Ironman. It willl not retain them when the move onto the Iron distance.

It would have been better had they just made it the 140.6 Ironman Distance and called it 140.6

I hope I'm wrong.

Scaleability - Long term business plan and outlook. While event management is a repeatable business model, I surprised they didn't start out with more locations to hit a homerun and allow 90% of the population to travel 5 hours or less to the event (just pulling those out of the sky). I would have tried harder to flip current 1/2s to 101, or perhaps added a division. Pigman (Iowa) would be a good example...pretty easy to tack on a longer course. But, it doesn't appear to be a priority at the moment....so this is more of a piggy-back attempt to WTC than competition.

Prize Money - 10K per race winner and 30k "champ" isn't a lot of money for one to re-structure their entire season. If one did win all the races, we are still talking about less money than they would have made at 70.3 or IM (minus the champs). The "wow" entrants to the tri events were able to make a successful slash with lots of cash (LTF and HyVee). It would seem likely the same would apply here.


But...I'm just arm-chair talking. I like the concept of varied tri distances and wish them great success!

I hear you. There is some good reasonaing there. I will suggest the following though:

• A slightly shorter distance renders this event more "do-able", especially for someone wanting to do more than one event per year.
• The fact that you don't view 101 as "watered down Ironman" is indicative of what I believe the taget audiences' view will be: This is the racer's race, the triathletes' race.
• Hmmm, maybe it will be an intermediate between 70.3 and the Ironman 140.6 distance. I see it becoming the defacto distance in and of itself though. This same thing happened in adventure racing where the belief for a long time was "longer and harder is better". This went on until the Raid Gauloises in Vietnam, the longest non-stop adventure race in history, 1000 km non-stop. I did the race and our team failed to finish. We raced seven days non-stop and still didn't finish. Longer isn't always better and it reaches a logistical and administrative point of absurdity or complexity that can compromise the event. Look at the issues of crowding at some of the larger events and the issues with registration filling up too fast for most people's taste. Those amount to opportunities for 101.

Obviously, I'm pretty excited about this series.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Completely disagree. You don't necessarily have to restructure your season if you are a HIM or IM athlete. IM pros can just dropin and race and a true HIM specialist whoudl be able to make the jump with minor modifications. I think the money is substantial compared to what IMNA races are offering for pros. Therefore I think these races will draw a stronger pro than amateur field at least in the first year. The top tier pros may pass, but anyone below podium level at a US IM will be strongly representing I think.

To add, you guys would be SHOCKED by who has contacted them from the super elite Pro ranks. They like the fact that you can do the 101 race and not have to take a month off afterwards. They see it as the longest distance race before you start really tearing up your body. The intersection between speed and endurance.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

Sorry - I think this is a bit of a stretch. As a working slob age grouper who only has so much time to commit to training - I do not see doing repeated ironman events year after year once I get there. I fully expected to do one, then a couple of years of racing halfs before I did another one. This now gives an option for a longer distance that will not be quite as onerous as an IM (no slouch, but I think I can fit training for it in better than training for a full IM). I would imagine there are many others in this situation.

I just don't believe that once you have done an ironman, all other distances are ruined.

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

Shocked? Really? Try me, I bet I won't be shocked at all.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

On you second point, I agree that it will be a triathletes' race. That said, it still won't attract the long distance hard core triathletes who want a Kona spot. So right off the bat the competition might be less. I'm just speculating. Also, people who want the M-Dot brand will want to keep with IMNA Ironman races. Those are 2 key groups of customers populations that won't do the 101 distance.

On your third point. There is a demand for the 140.6 distance as we have seen with Ironman M-Dot races selling out in record time. There is not a demand for the "Ultraman" or double Ironman distance and that seems to be the point where "longer is not better". Ultraman is not do-able to people and is where people stop thinking longer is better.

The distance hits home more in the run portion IMO. A 140.6 race regardless if it is an M-Dot branded race or not has carries the "prestige" and history of "having run a marathon" as the third and final leg of the triathlon.

Also, with the independent iron distance events - GFT, Grand Columbian, Cheasapeakman - they don't sell out because it's too long of a distance but because they are not M-Dot races. It's not the distance b/c M-Dot races are sold out in record time. It confirms my belief that it's not the distance but the brand that people are after to call themselves an "Ironman".

I think a smart move would be for Ironman IMNA to work with those indie iron distance races and brand them M-Dot races. Just like they did with the 70.3 races - Eagleman, Steelhead, Timberman are all extremely popular (they were before the 70.3 brand) but now they sell out even earlier.

Here's a link to the series web site:
http://www.trioneoone.com/

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

No offense to Texans but the ONLY people who want to travel to Texas are Texans (who live in other states). When I asked my wife what she thought about going to The Woodlands, she responded with, "Over my dead body...." Location means a lot and the only attractive location I see so far is Clear Lake. I admit that I'm quite disappointed with the current list but I'm encouraged to see what turns up in 2008. However, first thing is to move the Championship from Texas.

I certainly hope that decisions weren't influenced based on complaints posted on ST. I've never encountered a forum where so many people do nothing but complain just for the sake of complaining. Throw them a diamond and they'll somehow turn it into an ugly rock within ten minutes. Sorry but constructuve feedback is not this forum's specialty by any means.

Speaking of Coke (or Pepsi)... No cola at the run aid stations -- only Infinit and water? I'm sure that was just an oversight?

I wish everyone involved in this series the best of luck. I'm sure they're trying to do their best to build premier events.

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Dey be mo than one way to skin dat cat.

"The swim is the biggest barrier to many athletes in doing a longer event"

When you poll total non-triathletes if they would/could do a triathlon, l the biggest stumbling block that they mention about their possible participation will be the swim. I have had this confirmed by several RD's who run very big events. Therefore, while it would indeed be fairer and more equitable to have the swim by ratio longer, you are NOT going to see that happen at events that are aiming for big entry numbers and mass appeal for the obvious reasons that it is going to be a turn-off to customers/participants.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

You´ve got to be kidding! The prizemoney at 101 compared to IM/70.3 is SOOOO much better. For long distance pro´s this is the best thing happening in 07´unless you´re really counting to podium in Kona...

10 grand for a win in these races and they also treat pro´s to entry and lodging....It´s excellent athlete-care. That´s why these races will be VERY popular among my peers.

A lot of IM-races pay out 50 k (which they also did back in the early 90´s...go figure..) but a race like IM Wisco only had 25 k, and may still, despite massive turn-outs of athletes in general. That pays the winner 5 k. Not a great salary for winning an IM....which you can´t race too often either..

And at some of the 70.3 races they´re only paying out 1000 dollars for the win. Björn winning Timberman only netted 1000 dollars if I´m correct....

And a 101 race you recover much faster than after an IM. You´re sore of course but not like after an IM where I´m more like I´ve been beaten with a hammer, hard!

So any way you want to put it these races are nothing short of the best deal going on right now! Especially for pro´s!

Not to say there aren´t other great races. There are. I like what Dan said it not being about preferring brands as much as actually preferring the sport, triathlon.
This is a great thing for our sport and with more races raising the ante of athletecare and prizepurses for pro´s, our entire sport will benefit.

Have you ever Been to Woodlands, TX? If you bring your wife and kids, be prepared to lose some $$ if they like to shop. It's a great town about an hour north of downtown Houston (unless it's rush hour - then it 4 hours north) where the shopping mecca of the Galleria Mall exists. Ouch. The town of Woodlands is really pretty nice with great neighborhoods and smooth, flat roads to ride/run. It should prove out to be a good venue.

"It confirms my belief that it's not the distance but the brand that people are after to call themselves an "Ironman". "

You've got an irrefuteable point here. Absolutely true. The Ironman brand carries a lot of brand equity, and that is an understatement. It is the "grand dame" of the sport and, as I've written before, the "Gold Standard of Endurance Sports".

That said there are analogies elsewhere in business and sport where complimenting brands have co-existed succesfully and for a long time. I used the "Coke/Pepsi" business analogy and another is the "Mac/PC" relationship.

In sporting terms the existence of NASCAR, The Indy Car Racing League and Formula 1 suggest that there is room for a variety of formats, especially since ours is a sport of participation whereas auto racing is largely a sport of spectation.

The fulcrum of the debate in this thread seems to be whether Triathlon One O One will somehow "unseat" WTC/IMNA/Ironman events. I don't see that happening for exactly the reasons you mention- and I agree with them.

I do see IMNA/WTC/Ironman events bursting at the seams with more growth in sight. There is room for another show in town. How Triathlon One O One will eventually compare with IMNA/WTC/Ironman/70.3 remains to be seen.

My sense, based on what I've heard and read, is the athletes who do Triathlon One O One will be rewarded with an impressive race experience.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"It confirms my belief that it's not the distance but the brand that people are after to call themselves an "Ironman". "

Maybe, but I do wonder if the current IM events that are REALLY successful in certain venues, I am thinking about Penticton and perhaps Lake Placid, could stand alone like the Quelle Challenge in Roth. There are many who go do these races because of the venue and the atmosphere in those communities. I know that I would do a race in Penticton that was ALL the same, save the name and perhaps a slight change in the distance.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

>. That said, it still won't attract the long distance hard core triathletes who want a Kona spot. So right off the bat the competition might be less. I'm just speculating.<<

And I think your speculation is incorrect. Maybe not for 2006 since people who will be doing a 2006 IM are already entered, but going forward, people can do both, depending on timing. And your number of "hard core triathletes who want a Kona spot" probably isn't as large as you think.

>There is not a demand for the "Ultraman"<

I'd probably disagree with this. UM limits it's field and you cannot just sign up for it and they do not let everyone in who applies.

>>GFT, Grand Columbian, Cheasapeakman - they don't sell out because it's too long of a distance but because they are not M-Dot races.<<

I'd venture to guess that many triathletes have no clue that there even ARE IM-distance races that are not IM™ unless they live in the immediate area. I know people that I tell about these races--they are very surprised that such races exist. But you are right, there is that lemming thing about many triathletes.

>I think a smart move would be for Ironman IMNA to work with those indie iron distance races and brand them M-Dot races.<

Have you talked to those indie race directors???? Perhaps they do not want to be "taken over" by the almight M-Dot.

Why doesn't every just write off the new 101 series as a failure right now? That's what many of you are doing.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Funny! We live in Boulder - we don't shop at malls. We ski, hike, camp, swim/bike/run - travel. Who has time to go to a mall? Seriously, we don't even go to the mall at Christmas! So maybe it has nice shopping, but its next to Houston - which I know the Sports Guy (if any of you follow ESPN.com you know what I talking about) has coined Houston "the most boring city in America". Not exactly a travel destination. Vancouver would be cool!

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

   
“Training for the 101 will be nearly as intensive as training for an IM”

Seems like a bit of an overstatement for the average AGer. The IM run starts at 20 and the ride at 80 or so. That’s why the race will fill.
=========

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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
Ironman Certified Coach
USAT Certified Coach
Precision Nutrition Certified

I'm trying to figure out which one I can get to.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Come to Halifax....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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Tom,

The only thing though with the analogy is that the 2 different distances (101.6 miles vs. 140.6 miles) do not make them equal products.

But it's like asking a customer, "Do you want an 11oz can of Coke? Or do you want an 8oz can of Pepsi?"

Or better yet it's like asking a customer to choose betwee these 3 chocies:

1. M-Dot Ironman Banded Race: Do you want an colored iPod with 4 Gigs of memory?

2. Iron Distance Race: Do you want a generic MP3 player with 4 Gigs of memory?

2. 101.6 Distance Race: Do you want a generic MP3 player with 3 Gigs of memory.

To some customers, the extra 1 Gig does not make a difference. However, choice #1 is like you said the "Gold Standard of Endurance Events".

It's an interesting debate. The one thing that it has going somewhat against it as people have mentioned is location. I looked up Clear Lake, California and it came up with 7 entries on Mapquest. Hopefully, they will do some good marketing and update their website to provide travel and accomodation information. IMO, logistics are key and they need to promote the venue and put some nice pictures on the website to get people to become comfortable with a place they've never heard of before.

Sports Guy rocks.

Good and bad points about the distance. Starting a new race series is always hard while you are trying to get established. I hope the business model allows for profit at 500-600 racers per race.

It will be interesting to see if even half the people who complain about drafting will show up to a race that should have less drafting due to less people. I just see more tough talkers than people who are willing to take action.

I can't tell you how many of my customers when they find out I do triathlons ask me "Have you done the ironman in Hawaii?" Many of these same customers live in and around phoenix and do not even know that IM AZ has taken palce for multiple years. Tons of athletes only talk about doing an IM and put that as the holy grail. This may not be the grail they are looking for.

Many like me think this is a great idea. I think IM's are over-rated, way over rated, and this distance allows one to race without shooting your wad for a whole month when you factor in taper and recovery. I really wished the Grand Columbian had worked into my schedule last year.

Yeah, I would have liked a 4k swim since I have off the front swim speed but hey whatever I won't hold that against anyone - unless i lose in a sprint finish to a slower swimmer ;-)

I think 3k won't really make that much of a difference when it comes to drafting. The large group of people that swim 33-35min for 2k will still be together at 3k but they will have lost another 5-7 min to the leaders in their AG.

What will make these races different than the 70.3 or IM draft fests is that less people will be in the race. It is much harder to draft in a group of 10 than 60 and the groups will break up sooner.

I wish the backers the best of luck and I hope at least one of these works into my schedule.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

That's true good point. Maybe they want to keep their races independent. It's good for long distance triathlon. I hope they do well. I was just thinking from a business model perspective and it probably came across as being too skeptical. I'm eager to hear race reports and experiences from people come 2007 from the 101 series.

IMO, it all comes down to the quality of the races. If they're great, they'll succeed. If not, they won't. I'm still firmly on the fence regarding the distance. I think it fills a niche, but I'm not convinced that niche is that big...

It's true of all races today. If they're good, they do well. If they aren't, they don't do well. Shannon has a good reputation, so there's every reason to think they'll be well done.

Of course, I'm a Half Iron/70.3 apologist, so you can disregard my opinion if you like:)

Michael, I was a huge sceptic going to Houston to scout this race Monday. I can say that it will be one of the nicest venues period. Everything from the uniqueness of the swim, the the bike and the run are stellar. Slowman, myself and Tim Carlson were geeked at the layout.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

And at some of the 70.3 races they´re only paying out 1000 dollars for the win. Björn winning Timberman only netted 1000 dollars if I´m correct....

I hope someone told him before he signed up! IMNA 70.3 purse is $30k. If that isn't competitive, they have a larger bucket to pull from....problem solved. I was only speaking towards the IMNA events. I do like the partner model of WTC and would be curious of 101's scaleability. If they were REALLY trying to "wow" the pros, is matching enough? LTF and HyVee didn't think so.....

And a 101 race you recover much faster than after an IM. You´re sore of course but not like after an IM where I´m more like I´ve been beaten with a hammer, hard!

This might be the disconnect with triathlon. Do you want more opportunities to jump on the podium or increased reward? If the 70.3 series is any indication, we pretty much know the top 10 list at the champs (when the prize purse is higher). There are pros and cons to that argument.

more races raising the ante of athletecare and prizepurses for pro´s.

While it does surprise me that some events skimp in the accomodations of invited athletes, some of which are simply along for a paid training day. RDs look at the trend and are now denying certain athletes based upon their race calendar. They aren't stupid.....

>>Slowman, myself and Tim Carlson were geeked at the layout.<<

And that' a hell of a lot of GEEK! Love ya! ;-)

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

We certainly didn't hide the Prize Purse at Timberman....We've ALWAYS focused on the age groupers...It's great to support the pros, and we're tripling our prize money for 2007 to do that, but it's still about the age grouper...

Are we going to offer $10K to the winner? Maybe in the future, but not now. It'd require us to take something away from the age grouper, and we're not going to do that...but, we do help with accommodations, travel, etc to quite a few, and treat them very well. It'd be great if pros could actually make a living racing, but there still just isn't that much money in the sport to do that. That's reality, unfortunately...


Again, it all comes down to how great the races are. Prize money is great, and it's REALLY nice to have some of the top pros there, but the race has to be great for the age grouper to succeed in the long term.

It'd be pretty easy to make the argument that most of the big races DON'T need to have any prize money or pro field. If IMNA (NAS now) didn't offer any $$, do you think the races wouldn't sell out? Prize money just doesn't have an impact on 99.9% of the athletes racing...

The RD is a good one, so I'm sure the races will be good....

I really hope they succeed but I can't think of a reason I would race at this distance.
From the perspective of someone trying to improve at IM, I would get little more feedback or satisfaction than if I did a 1/2 IM distance and considerably less of either compared to the full distance.
It's as if they came along and offered their own Olympics, but changed all the current distances.
I think they should have rebadged the current distances and given IMNA/WTC head to head competition.

Except, you assume that the driving force behind IM isn't people wanting to do an "Ironman" one time to say they did it. But, that is why it's become so popular.

By your logic, non-M-dot races should be at least mildly popular, but they're not. If people really were looking for an alternative, these races would be selling out.

You and I both wish distances between HIM and IM would really take off, but the realist in me says they won't.

I think you misinterpretted my post. It was directed toward one's motivation to race for a small purse....not the race purse itself.

IMO, I wouldn't draw the conclusion on pro attendance and amatuer success or even amatuer involvement. There are so many races around the country that are very successful (ie. yours, of course).

I wasn't being critical, just pointing out the obvious that almost all of us on this forum aren't truly interested in what the prize purse is, and it has no bearing on the success/failure of a race.

I LOVE having the pros at my events, and the age groupers do too...But, if most popular races just ditched their prize purses, it would have ZERO affect on the successes of those events, I'd guess.

That's certainly not to say we shouldn't do everything we can to support the pros and offer the prize money, but I don't think it has any bearing on the success of 101....

Mike, while we don't have the mountains they have in BC, there is lots to do in Halifax - we don't always do the best job at marketing ourselves but there is much to see and do in the province. Everything from whale-watching, lots of hiking/MTB trails, some decent bouldering (and a little climbing), shopping, nightlife and pretty much everything inbetween.

Right now Halifax is trying to market itself of more of a big/little city (Rolling Stones concert, Commonwealth Games bid for 2014) and has a proven track record hosting events. Probably not the most boring city in Canada :)

Shane

I think the shorter 101 mile distance is the key--- More people will be able to actually race it. I think a good percentage of 101 athletes will be able to run the whole running leg. This should be a better experience. Not to mention that the recovery time will be a good bit better than a full IM--- 6-8 hours of racing should deplete you a lot less than 9 - 14 hours.

I still think the 70.3 distance is the sweet spot, but it's nice to have something new. Just wish there was one in SoCal.

-Marc

Sorry, my opinion. I just dont see a need for another in between race distance to the HIM and FUll IM. Nothing against the RD's, but folks say they listened.

Personally, I enjoy the smaller races MUCH more than the larger. Get to talk and meet people easier.

Oh well, one day someone will put on a tri event where it is a real tri.

Since this series was trying to attract lots of pros, I dont think the swim distance would scare them off.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"Why doesn't every[one] just write off the new 101 series as a failure right now?"

I know that I am not. Finally, after perhaps 15 years, someone has come up with some novel distances of their own and not just copied what others are doing, and come up with their own race. Dan Empfield suggested this some time ago, and now someone has taken up the challenge to do that.

At one time the Ironman distances where novel and unique. Now someone is trying something new.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I hope you are wrong too. This distance is about as far as I can go and still feel like I am racing. The IMs for me are more of a endurance-fest....not a race. Kudos to those who race it but I just don't have the where with all to race it.

It is funny how joe public only cares about the IM or the marathon. I mean who cares if you can run a sub 4 mile if you have never run a marathon.

As for the distances. Seems like they reduced the bike and run percentage-wise more so in the swim compared to the IM/70.3. I am and non-swimmer and I still love it....because I feel like I can race the run!!

I'll be in clearlake for certainty !!

I disagree with Tom calling this the Pepsi to Ironmans Coke. I would consider this the XFL to the NFL. Ironman has huge brand recognition. Unless this 101 is around for 25 years, they can make up some ground...My two cents.

You mean that is what you HOPE? That they(age-groupers) still show even though the pro's are eating kraft dinner in a tent as there pre-race prep.

I think this series will be great for the pro's, another cookie jar to get some food money out of.

t~

I think alot of people that have done Ironman will give this distance a try. I probably would have if the announcement would have come before IMFL signup. But if there is a race within driving distance for me I would be there in a heartbeat. 18 miles is a world of difference in running from 26.2, almost all of your muscles damage occurs after 18-20 miles. You could taper for one of these races, take a week off after and resume your training schedule. That's tempting. I'm betting there are a lot of people out there like me that have been doing Ironman for several years are looking for a different challenge.

I do think Ironman will remain strong, but it'll be interesting to see if races like IM CDA that already takes a while to fill might not fill, due to the Clear Lake Race, obviously won't happen in 07 but I'd look for that to happen on 08. CDA draws heavily from the West Coast. If I were 101 I would try to put locations in very close proximity and time to current IM races, how about a race in chicago on Labor Day Weekend to capture those who couldn't get into Wisconsin. Be like walmart and walgreens, use your competition and go in right next to them. How about a Vancouver race in August, Clermont in November, etc, etc.

If the money is there, and the races are good the pros will come and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some big name guys show up. Especially guys that haven't made a name for themselves in Ironman Yet but aren't quite ready to tear themselves up with IM, like Bozzone and guys that are towards the end of there career and are fading as Ironman contenders like Spencer Smith, Hellreigel, Leder, Fuhr, Badmann, Bowden and of course all the 2nd tier pros that already avoid Hawaii and try to race alot at other distances. I wonder if Chris Legh will give it a go, and see if he can push up to that distance. Also pros that finish top 10 in Hawaii could use these races to gain sponsor exposure and win cash, and still save their legs for the all important IM Hawaii every year. I do think pros are important at races, Hawaii wouldn't be what it is now if it wasn't for the pro race, we never would have seen it on TV. Heck we spend 3 months on ST talking about who's going to win it!

I would wager anybody that these races will each have over 1000, they were smart in location maybe not from destination standpoint but they did start with the 3 states that have the largest percentage of USAT members (I'm not sure of that but I'm just guessing that's the case... I'm sure CA and FL are 1 and 2 for sure, not sure on Texas) I do think they should consider finding a more destination location for the championships. Part of the allure of Kona is because it's in Hawaii in addition to it being the World Champs. I agree Texas just doesn't seem exotic no matter how nice The Woodlands is.

I'm excited about it and look forward to supporting it in 08, given there is a closer race to Minnesota and I can't imagine there won't be race somewhere in the Chicago market.

the only negative I can say is I don't quite get the backwards ONE in the logo...

Mark

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http://www.mctriguy.blogspot.com

Do you think non-Slowtwitchers will perceive the 101 distance as "half ass" since the "gold standard endurance distance" is of the Iron-Distance 140.6 ?

It would be interesting to know how many people who get shut out of M-Dot races -- if they chose to do a Non-MDot race instead. Since the non-MDot races do not sell out, it leads one to believe that a good majority of them don't. It probably will not attract the spillage of people that get shut out of registration of M-Dot races.

>>Oh well, one day someone will put on a tri event where it is a real tri<<

What exactly is "a real tri"?????

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"since the "gold standard endurance distance" is of the Iron-Distance 140.6"

Really. Who says?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The 50,000 entires at $450.00 recieved each year by the M-Dot races throughout the world.

1. Why wouldn't the 101 series be viewed as the "sissy series"? I mean, really, who's going to brag about 101 when there are many others bragging about 140.6? The series might be viewed as a "stepping stone" for those that are hesistant to go from 70.2 to 140.6 in one shot. I dig the 101, but I think its importance/appeal is over-estimated.

2. It's only in coastal regions. Is the demand high enough there? I ask because there seem to be many races already in place, and they don't seem to sell-out as quickly as races in other locals.

I think another option is cool, but I don't know that triathlon is big enough for a bunch of other options.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Agree completely. I'm in that boat and thrilled to have a race that's longer than a half and shorter than a full!

Isn't a 140.6 race suppossed to be a super challenge? I ask b/c I see these "I want to take baby steps" questions/comments all over the place (primarily at other forums), and I don't get it and how it is congruent with the spirit of the IM challenge?

If only they had a 120 mile race now, to link the 101 and 141. ;)

With the limited number of races and locals, I'm not sure how this will work as a "stepping stone" for very many people. But, I am content to sit back and observe to see how it plays out.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Most of the triathletes I know don't come from a swim back ground. The pool time is also the hardest for most to get. You can run and bike from your door. I know race directors worry a lot about the swim. If you have a problem what can you really do? The boats in the water can't really watch everyone. A two mile course is hard to find. I just think the swimmers want the longer course and it may make thing more equal but I don't think it would appeal to most! So I would say most people prefer shorter swims. If you asked people here it may not be true but ask on trinewbies and at most triathlons if they want longer swims.
The name 101 does bring to mind a beginner type of race . I just think it sounds to much like math 101 , science 101 ect. I think they need a new/different name!
Sorry I meant to reply to H2Ofun about a longer swim

IMO, a real tri is a race where folks do things like these thoughts.

Put as much effort into training for all three events.

Need to do the swim as a race, rather than a warm up.

Having the times for each event be about the same.

The only distance, IMO, that comes the closest to the above is the Oly, and O2 distances.

But again, just my opinion.

As Dev pointed out in his thread, lets look at the majority of folks who do tris. They are the older folks who have knees that dont allow us to run like we used to.

I know if I were to RD a race again, I would try one that met the above goals and see if there were any interest. I did write the RD at LOP and suggest distances that met the above. Never heard back from him.

So in summary, seems to me a "Tri" would have a race with equal efforts, training, times, etc. on all three events.
A "du", puts the effort on two events. Today, most of our "tris", IMO, have the swim no more than a warm up.

Dave
Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I wrote that in an editorial some time ago called "Roll Call of Honor". It's here:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/...orials/0000086.shtml

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I agree with you on the swimming length, too short! The only thing that excites me about this series of races is that maybe it will take the pressure off of the Ironman events so that I have a chance of entering my next one using the internet instead of having to be onsite.

One of the things that really appeals to me is the attraction of having a well run long distance race in my backyard. The distances are, to a degree, irrelevant. If this series expands the way that it is envisioned, it presents a very nice alternative.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I also would be much happier with 4K - but I think its a vocal minority of ex-swimmers who agree with us. A 4k to 3K drop will not persuade many swimmers from not racing (esp. as there are no more longer events with a rel. longer swim). There are a ton of racers who are petrified of the swim and anything over 2 miles scares them - they will like the 3 k swim. Compared to a halfIM/IM the swim is 1.5x half while the bike/run are more like 1.4x....so its a TINY bit more swim....

From a business perspective - I think they made the right choice unfortunately.

Dave

I am not an ex swimmer, and really started 3 months ago with masters at 49.

But, I strongly believe we are supposed to be doing a Tri, which should mean, IMO, that all three events make a difference. I know I am a terrible swimmer, but even if it doesnt mean
much in today Tri races, I am in this sports to see how well I can do at all Three. Otherwise, we all should be doing the Duo's, IMO.

So yes I understand lot are scared of swimming. Even some FOP folks. But again, this is why OLy distance is my favorite, and O2 if I can find one within driving distance. I also love drafting legal races so there is not the BS about folks breaking rules.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"The distances are, to a degree, irrelevant. If this series expands the way that it is envisioned, it presents a very nice alternative."

Absolutely agreed.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

So far their customer service stinks...we sent them an email asking about sponsorship packages (my company is involved in numerous endurance events) and have not heard anything back...maybe they have all the sponsors they are looking for???

So far their customer service stinks...we sent them an email asking about sponsorship packages (my company is involved in numerous endurance events) and have not heard anything back...maybe they have all the sponsors they are looking for???

That's not "customer" service, that's sponsor relations.

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Oh, thanks for the clarification...so are you saying it is ok to ignore potential sponsors? and sponsors are not customers of a race director? Last I checked, when you pay someone for a good or service, that makes you a customer...semantics...

Does anyone know if they have a fill sponsor line up? I like the idea of the new series and would be in favor of supporting it by participating and recommending it for sponsorship...

Did you try the phone number listed? This is a consulting company that is obviously contracted by 101. Not all companies are particularly responsive to e-mail (trust me on this one - I sometimes wonder why they put up web pages and list e-mail addresses). It may also be since the event is so new One Brain Mktg has not yet made the transition to a dedicated sponsorship team for the account.

If you are serious - they list a phone number right on the 101 site.

If adequate response then fails, you should contact the 101 coordinators and indicate the company the contracted out to to handle sponsorship is not making a favourable impression. I am sure the event coordinators would be happy to escalate the issue for you.

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

"I agree Texas just doesn't seem exotic no matter how nice The Woodlands is."

I live, work and train here in The Woodlands and I have to agree that it is not exotic. It does however have great facilities, great roads, and great community support for these types of events. The on the ground race director for the race is a member of our local tri club, a certified USAT coach, an age group national championship dualthlete and will put on a good race.

DISCLAIMER: The above is my opinion and mine alone. I have not received any compensation in any words for the opinions expressed above.

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"Unless you have a ... GF who might put out that night and that night only ... skip it and race." - AndyPants 3-15-2007

The race venue may not necessarily need "exotic", look at Memphis in May.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

[reply]So far their customer service stinks...we sent them an email asking about sponsorship packages (my company is involved in numerous endurance events) and have not heard anything back...maybe they have all the sponsors they are looking for???[/reply]

I still fail to understand why people think that email is reliable? It isn't at all.
Call them. :)

I supposed that poor guy in IM Florida faced the Blue Screen of Death then, right ?

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"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." Oscar Wilde

In and of itself, it looks like it's going to be a great race. But for '07 - they've shoehorned the Bradenton Race into the week after St. Anthony's (many folk's early season "A" race) and 2 weeks before FL 70.3 which still has open slots....two huge races (in terms of participation) for locals and others seeking warm early season races.

As a not-yet-Ironman, I personally can't see a reason to do this race (yet). It's 70% of an Ironman - can you train 70% less hard to do it? I've been able to complete a Half on an average of 5hrs a week training - and I'm pretty sure that the full Iron distance requires at least double that (for a guy with my abilities) - I wonder what commitment this distance would require. At this level of triathlon, as a relative newbie, I think it's ALL about the distance. For folks who have checked that block, and can answer yes to the the Iroman questions, then this is a long race that has lots of benefits that folks have already brought up.

Most non-triathletes, when they ask me about tri's, seem to care more about the distances than the locations or the names of the events. Non-triathletes would still be impressed with the 101 distance; most folks don't even know how far a marathon is. I'd like to see the race do well - but I wouldn't NOT do St. Anthony's, so if you think one could do the 101 on a week's taper, I might give it a shot in '08.

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http://www.clydesdaleshavebigbikes.blogspot.com

The date issue is, well, a bit of an issue. I think the inaugural Bradenton event is the same weekend as Ford Ironman St. Croix 70.3. I really want to do St. Croix and have tried to get down there a few times but never made it.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I haven't spoken to a person who is not excited about this series. I agree and definitely think that if they build it they will come; in masses.

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- Matt

Can I be the first person you have talked to thats not excited? :o)

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Sure, but why not?

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- Matt

The 101 organizers need to be proactive regarding drafting. A note about Bradenton. I use to live there and still train there every other weekend. The course will be flat no matter how they design it. The bridges going out to the barrier islands, Anna Maria and Longboat Key, are draw bridges and provide very little elevation. The bridges over the Manatee River are low as well. Clearwater was of course a draft fest on a bike course with bridges much higher than those in Bradenton. In fact, I hate to use the word elevation to describe the topography of Bradenton, or the rest of coastal FL for that matter. Don't get me wrong, Bradenton is a great venue in an area rich in triathlon. Drafting is always a problem, I am just putting this out there.

Ray Miller

Here is why I am not excited. There are plenty of tri races and distances already. All they have done is add another non balanced tri distance in between 2 other ones. So, for a few of us, I am more interested in doing a real Tri, with balanced focus on ALL three events, not just a warm up swim!!!! This may make me in the minority, but if I am going to do a long distance race, I want to be able to say I did an IM (I know Martin) and folks know what that means. If I say I did a 101, who will care, even within the Tri community.

So, its great if more folks get excited and can race with the new events. I just have no interest to do more of the same. This is why my first choice of races this season are Oly distance. Short enough I could do one every weekend.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Interesting. Fair enough and I understand your points. The folks I spoke with liked the distance and I believe the choice of having another longer distance option to them. Thanks.

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- Matt

Has there really been anything new in triathlon? After all, the first triathlon was a combination of sports that already existed and the most famous tri of them all, the Hawaii IM, started with the simple idea to combine three existing single-sport events.

With that perspective, I don't believe the 101 Series is "triathlon's second coming" but it is a new variation on the formula that most say began in San Diego in 1974. It is definitely worth a try!

[reply]Here is why I am not excited. There are plenty of tri races and distances already. All they have done is add another non balanced tri distance in between 2 other ones. So, for a few of us, I am more interested in doing a real Tri, with balanced focus on ALL three events, not just a warm up swim!!!! This may make me in the minority, but if I am going to do a long distance race, I want to be able to say I did an IM (I know Martin) and folks know what that means. If I say I did a 101, who will care, even within the Tri community.

Dave[/reply]

What race do you do that has this balanced focus. I have always been interested in doing something like this as well.

I know it's not an IM, but if your'e just looking for a long race, then one advantage that 101 has over IM is their refund policy. If you cancel, you get your full registration minus $15 towards any of their other races. As someone who had to withdraw a couple months before IMFL b/c of injury, that refund policy sounds FANTASTIC.

Also, someone else wrote that this was another unbalanced triathlon w/r/t each leg's distance. It's actually just a tad bit more balanced than the half/IM format. Swim is 1.55 times longer than a half, bike 1.44 times longer, and run 1.42 times longer. It's not much, but it's a little bit more even!

(yes, i'm a big giant dork with a calculator...)

Matt

Most non-triathletes I know have no idea how far an IM is, or what it means. Just tell them you are doing a really long race.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Looks what happens when I say I did an IM on ST. :o) Just ask Martin. :o)

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Why don't you put on your own race and see how many people show up?

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

"The 101 organizers need to be proactive regarding drafting."

I agree 100%. This is a big opportunity for them to get it right. The proof will be in the pudding.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Nothing today. The closest I believe in the Oly distance, which is why I would really like to do the new ITU o2 Distance. Yes, some folks wont do because of a longer swim, and thats the point. If you cant do all 3 well, then maybe one should do du's. Saying one is a Tri person and cant swim is not saying much, IMO.

Now, Dan as commented on a race he may be in Sept with what seems to be a balanced race. Waiting for more details.

And this is my point on the 101. It really is just the same old stuff stuck between two other distances. Now, if they would have attempted to make a balanced race, then I would be REALLY excited since it would start to show who the real best Tri races are, not just Du racers that warm up with a swim. :o)

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Excellent point about drafting. Wave starts to eliminate the packs and heavy on the officials. Some people will always cheat, but this will not be a draft fest.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

I did for a few years, and we filled it up. So, whats your point?

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

[reply]I did for a few years, and we filled it up. So, whats your point? [/reply]

What race would that be?

My point: You bitch about all the other races/distances and how they aren't "real triathlons". Put up or...as they say.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Lets see, I was the Co RD for the Lake of the Pines Tri.

http://mylop.org

Click on the tri link, thats the web site I did a few years ago.

When I became Co Rd, there was one race. .6 mi swim, 5 mile bike, 4 mile run. I said this was not right.
So, the first year we added another. .6 mi swim, 15 mile bike, 4 mile run.

The next year we added another one. 500 yard swim, 3 mile bike, 1 mile run (or close to these)

Then the last year I had it all set to change the long race to like .75 mile swom, 15 mile bike,4 mile run. (Was trying to get as balanced as I could)
But, when the other co RD said we were not going to following USAT rules about wetsuits, I quit.

So, I have spent the time, and walked the talk as an RD.

What races have you Rd'ed on?

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

InfinitIT 1,

Yes indeed wave starts reduce drafting. Relying solely on wave starts however is not enough in this case. In addition, the organizers need to closely consider the number of officials and their location on the bike course to curb drafting. Or, this race will be a draft fest.

Memphis in May though is still largely a regional race especially after it was no longer a qualifier. The 101 Champs is a race that is trying to attract attention from Media and participants from throughout the world. IMHO that would be helped by being in a more exciting location. Not saying it won't work in Texas though but I think it will be a tougher sell.

Mark

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http://www.mctriguy.blogspot.com

No question. It has already been discussed in some detail for the Fla race.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

Folonator,

Understood and I do wish you guys the BEST in getting this thing going. Nothing against Texans personally, it just holds no attraction to me.

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Excellent. It is great to read that it is being considered now rather than in a ST bitch session on Monday.

>>What races have you Rd'ed on?<<

I have no desire to be a RD. I have been quite involved in a number of capacities for many years with a number of races, including running registration and transition area for a couple of races.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Even as a mediocre swimmer I would have preferred a O3 to the 101 simply for the balance aspect. But I am happy that there is at least something in between 1/2IM and IM. Unfortunately, I think had they offered up a 4K or 4.5K swim, the applicant pool would have drastically been reduced, which is kind of sad.

I think Dan gave the distances to his proposed race next year in another thread. I think the swim was 1.2M with much shorter run/bike than a 1/2IM.

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_______________________________________________
you know my name, look up my number
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I've never been there but there is no denying that on curb appeal Texas and a place like Kona are a long way apart.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I love the idea of the 101 but will probably never enter one. Why? The price. It's 3 times as much as most of the half ironmans that I've raced. I'm not going to subsidize the elites (free lodging, free entries, and huge cash prizes to the pros).

you know, I hear you. Here's the thing: You may surmise, somewhat logically so, that the entry fees you and I pay go directly to flying the professional contingent to the race and covering their lodging.

There was a recent interview with Graham Fraser of Ironman North America in one of the magazines, It was either Triathlete or Inside Triathlon, where Graham talked openly about the costs associated with putting on a large, long distance race.

You'd be astounded at the costs involved in just putting on the event- pros notwithstanding.

The Triathlon One O One series is $300 and Ironman North America events are $450. On a dollar to distance basis (admittedly convoluted reasoning) The Triathlon One O One events are 29% shorter than IMNA events but 44% less expensive. I think- you'll need to check my math on that, it's often all out of whack.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

The one thing I did think of that will differentiate 101 from the M-Dots is the whole charity and human interest thing.

IMNA (NAS) Graham Fraser announced that they were going to focus more on charity. Don't get me wrong, *I think charity is a great cause*, but it was a turn off. Let's not forget that it is first and foremost an endurance event. After that, people do an IM for many reasons which includes the charities and human interest stories. Look at how people perceive Team In Training now. TNT raises a ton of $ and it's great but I know many runners and triathletes that think that the marathons get overshadowed by the charities. It's not a charity event, it's a marathon.

We'll see but if 101 is what they are advertising to be: For the "triathletes" and if they put on a well organized event that has "pure racing and participation" involved then I could see it going over huge.

Again don't get me wrong, the human interest and charity is great, but I noticed this at the last M-Dot I did. The pre-race dinner, meeting, and then even the video on Versus (OLN) all focused on the human interest and I almost thought, "Um, let's not forget that this is a Triathlon and not a charity fund raising event."

Again, nothing against charities and each to his/her own. But I want to get back to the grass roots "pure racing" atmosphere.

lemme just comment on three themes: the cost, a "racer's/triathlete's race", and human interest.

in my view, mix these all together in the light of m-dot has already proven, and 101 comes up short in terms of potential success. here is why:

m-dot is larger than the sport itself. its customer base, as participants, goes outside triathlon - who doesn't want to do an ironman ?? !! ?? there is an allure there, an appeal which reaches across to people who would otherwise never do a triathlon or become involved in it - i am one such person, drawn by that allure from a long time as a hobbyist bike racer. the cost aspect works, because it is such a big deal. a guy can rationalize the 5 bills to the wife because " its-the-ironman ". 101, on the otherhand, is more akin to the local non-m-dot 1/2 distance in its broadscale appeal. maybe it'll be nice, but it will not appeal outside the sport itself ( or if it does, it will be cost prohibitive without the m-dot brand association ) - as tom sez, it is the "racer's race". a tri for tri-racers. question being, can a bunch of racers equal broadscale success in a big-time long distance triathlon, without the field stacked up with first timers, or guys wanting to scratch the event off their life's to-do list, or guys looking to just being able to say " i did an IM " ???

if we look to the failure of most non m-dot IM's, the answer is no. how great did everybody say blue devil was ? or ultra-max ?? supposedly these events were fabulous as events, but in the end they drew how many people ?? not very many. what is going to make 101 succeed, where these races failed ? being a "racer's race" did not pay the rent for them, why will it do so for 101 ???

or, answer this - - - most enthusiasts have numerous 1/2 IM's available to them locally, at a quarter or third of the price of 101. why would they pass on the local 1/2 IM, then, for this new event ?? what is 101 offering to make that a reality ??? if you wish to go longish, why not just spend 75-80 bux on a good local 1/2 IM and call it done, as opposed to what 101 is offering - going a little bit longer, but at 3-4 times the price ?

Have you lost your mind? It's only a warm up if you choose it to be. So swim the "short" 3200y hard! Knock yourself out. How long are your masters workouts? Probably not all that much longer than that.

Last time I checked, you are free to spend as much time as you like training the swim.

So you race Oly distance to get the longest relative swim? Come on. The proportional difference is so minor. You really are that nutty as to let THAT drive your race decisions? If you care about swim length, then go race IMs -- 4400y is a warmup for no one.

And finally, all you whiners about the length of the swim... 4K would add like ~750 yards. Whooopeeeee, another 12 minutes. You are really missing the point here. Each event is meant to have some meaning. A 2200-4400y open water swim is pretty darn long by pure swimmer standards. Look around, and you'll see most open water races are ~1 mile. So, 1.2 to 2.4 miles is arguably longer than 56-112 mile rides, 13-26 mile runs.

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**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

If they added 1K to the swim and 5k to the run ... I bet "tri-one-69.com" would get some attention.

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Tom

What happened to your prediction? Tri101 is not and will not be the Pepsi to MDot's Coke. It seems that so far it as well received as lukewarm tap water from a bad restaurant. It's too bad that there isn't a better alternative.

So you think after one race that is the tell all about how a series will go? Good thing you weren't there in Hawaii when it first started....

The Tri 101 series is operating in a completely different environment than the original Hawaii Ironman. The original Ironman was at the beginning of the whole long distance triathlon era. There was no established races or markets or internet or marketing etc with the original Ironman. It is a meaningless comparison to equate a modern day race with that of the past. True the Hawaii Ironman lucked out in getting the wide world of sports coverage and has become an icon of endurance sports in the world.

The Tri101 series is operating in an entirely different era with many competitors and more sophisticated and discriminatory consumers (i.e. participants as well as corporate sponsors). To be successful from the outset takes money, extensive marketing as well as a competitive product. The 101 series will never be another Ironman. It is just the way things are with respect to the sport.

Where the 101 series needed to be competitive but in my opinion has failed to do so is: to be competitive in venue location. Their choice of venues is horrible in my opinion. For an unproven event, they have chosen venues that are difficult and expensive to get to. Moreover, the timing of their events are suboptimal.

Having a major event like a long distance triathlon is similar in some regards to movie releases and television pilots. Often times, if there isn't a good showing on the opening weekend, the tv show or movie will get pulled. That is just the way the market is in alot of products and services.