Completely disagree. You don't necessarily have to restructure your season if you are a HIM or IM athlete. IM pros can just dropin and race and a true HIM specialist whoudl be able to make the jump with minor modifications. I think the money is substantial compared to what IMNA races are offering for pros. Therefore I think these races will draw a stronger pro than amateur field at least in the first year. The top tier pros may pass, but anyone below podium level at a US IM will be strongly representing I think.

To add, you guys would be SHOCKED by who has contacted them from the super elite Pro ranks. They like the fact that you can do the 101 race and not have to take a month off afterwards. They see it as the longest distance race before you start really tearing up your body. The intersection between speed and endurance.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

Sorry - I think this is a bit of a stretch. As a working slob age grouper who only has so much time to commit to training - I do not see doing repeated ironman events year after year once I get there. I fully expected to do one, then a couple of years of racing halfs before I did another one. This now gives an option for a longer distance that will not be quite as onerous as an IM (no slouch, but I think I can fit training for it in better than training for a full IM). I would imagine there are many others in this situation.

I just don't believe that once you have done an ironman, all other distances are ruined.

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Jim
"In dog beers, I've only had one"
http://www.shakercolonial.com/
Creating custom made furnishing to your requirements

Shocked? Really? Try me, I bet I won't be shocked at all.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

On you second point, I agree that it will be a triathletes' race. That said, it still won't attract the long distance hard core triathletes who want a Kona spot. So right off the bat the competition might be less. I'm just speculating. Also, people who want the M-Dot brand will want to keep with IMNA Ironman races. Those are 2 key groups of customers populations that won't do the 101 distance.

On your third point. There is a demand for the 140.6 distance as we have seen with Ironman M-Dot races selling out in record time. There is not a demand for the "Ultraman" or double Ironman distance and that seems to be the point where "longer is not better". Ultraman is not do-able to people and is where people stop thinking longer is better.

The distance hits home more in the run portion IMO. A 140.6 race regardless if it is an M-Dot branded race or not has carries the "prestige" and history of "having run a marathon" as the third and final leg of the triathlon.

Also, with the independent iron distance events - GFT, Grand Columbian, Cheasapeakman - they don't sell out because it's too long of a distance but because they are not M-Dot races. It's not the distance b/c M-Dot races are sold out in record time. It confirms my belief that it's not the distance but the brand that people are after to call themselves an "Ironman".

I think a smart move would be for Ironman IMNA to work with those indie iron distance races and brand them M-Dot races. Just like they did with the 70.3 races - Eagleman, Steelhead, Timberman are all extremely popular (they were before the 70.3 brand) but now they sell out even earlier.

Here's a link to the series web site:
http://www.trioneoone.com/

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

No offense to Texans but the ONLY people who want to travel to Texas are Texans (who live in other states). When I asked my wife what she thought about going to The Woodlands, she responded with, "Over my dead body...." Location means a lot and the only attractive location I see so far is Clear Lake. I admit that I'm quite disappointed with the current list but I'm encouraged to see what turns up in 2008. However, first thing is to move the Championship from Texas.

I certainly hope that decisions weren't influenced based on complaints posted on ST. I've never encountered a forum where so many people do nothing but complain just for the sake of complaining. Throw them a diamond and they'll somehow turn it into an ugly rock within ten minutes. Sorry but constructuve feedback is not this forum's specialty by any means.

Speaking of Coke (or Pepsi)... No cola at the run aid stations -- only Infinit and water? I'm sure that was just an oversight?

I wish everyone involved in this series the best of luck. I'm sure they're trying to do their best to build premier events.

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Dey be mo than one way to skin dat cat.

"The swim is the biggest barrier to many athletes in doing a longer event"

When you poll total non-triathletes if they would/could do a triathlon, l the biggest stumbling block that they mention about their possible participation will be the swim. I have had this confirmed by several RD's who run very big events. Therefore, while it would indeed be fairer and more equitable to have the swim by ratio longer, you are NOT going to see that happen at events that are aiming for big entry numbers and mass appeal for the obvious reasons that it is going to be a turn-off to customers/participants.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

You´ve got to be kidding! The prizemoney at 101 compared to IM/70.3 is SOOOO much better. For long distance pro´s this is the best thing happening in 07´unless you´re really counting to podium in Kona...

10 grand for a win in these races and they also treat pro´s to entry and lodging....It´s excellent athlete-care. That´s why these races will be VERY popular among my peers.

A lot of IM-races pay out 50 k (which they also did back in the early 90´s...go figure..) but a race like IM Wisco only had 25 k, and may still, despite massive turn-outs of athletes in general. That pays the winner 5 k. Not a great salary for winning an IM....which you can´t race too often either..

And at some of the 70.3 races they´re only paying out 1000 dollars for the win. Björn winning Timberman only netted 1000 dollars if I´m correct....

And a 101 race you recover much faster than after an IM. You´re sore of course but not like after an IM where I´m more like I´ve been beaten with a hammer, hard!

So any way you want to put it these races are nothing short of the best deal going on right now! Especially for pro´s!

Not to say there aren´t other great races. There are. I like what Dan said it not being about preferring brands as much as actually preferring the sport, triathlon.
This is a great thing for our sport and with more races raising the ante of athletecare and prizepurses for pro´s, our entire sport will benefit.

Have you ever Been to Woodlands, TX? If you bring your wife and kids, be prepared to lose some $$ if they like to shop. It's a great town about an hour north of downtown Houston (unless it's rush hour - then it 4 hours north) where the shopping mecca of the Galleria Mall exists. Ouch. The town of Woodlands is really pretty nice with great neighborhoods and smooth, flat roads to ride/run. It should prove out to be a good venue.

"It confirms my belief that it's not the distance but the brand that people are after to call themselves an "Ironman". "

You've got an irrefuteable point here. Absolutely true. The Ironman brand carries a lot of brand equity, and that is an understatement. It is the "grand dame" of the sport and, as I've written before, the "Gold Standard of Endurance Sports".

That said there are analogies elsewhere in business and sport where complimenting brands have co-existed succesfully and for a long time. I used the "Coke/Pepsi" business analogy and another is the "Mac/PC" relationship.

In sporting terms the existence of NASCAR, The Indy Car Racing League and Formula 1 suggest that there is room for a variety of formats, especially since ours is a sport of participation whereas auto racing is largely a sport of spectation.

The fulcrum of the debate in this thread seems to be whether Triathlon One O One will somehow "unseat" WTC/IMNA/Ironman events. I don't see that happening for exactly the reasons you mention- and I agree with them.

I do see IMNA/WTC/Ironman events bursting at the seams with more growth in sight. There is room for another show in town. How Triathlon One O One will eventually compare with IMNA/WTC/Ironman/70.3 remains to be seen.

My sense, based on what I've heard and read, is the athletes who do Triathlon One O One will be rewarded with an impressive race experience.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"It confirms my belief that it's not the distance but the brand that people are after to call themselves an "Ironman". "

Maybe, but I do wonder if the current IM events that are REALLY successful in certain venues, I am thinking about Penticton and perhaps Lake Placid, could stand alone like the Quelle Challenge in Roth. There are many who go do these races because of the venue and the atmosphere in those communities. I know that I would do a race in Penticton that was ALL the same, save the name and perhaps a slight change in the distance.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

>. That said, it still won't attract the long distance hard core triathletes who want a Kona spot. So right off the bat the competition might be less. I'm just speculating.<<

And I think your speculation is incorrect. Maybe not for 2006 since people who will be doing a 2006 IM are already entered, but going forward, people can do both, depending on timing. And your number of "hard core triathletes who want a Kona spot" probably isn't as large as you think.

>There is not a demand for the "Ultraman"<

I'd probably disagree with this. UM limits it's field and you cannot just sign up for it and they do not let everyone in who applies.

>>GFT, Grand Columbian, Cheasapeakman - they don't sell out because it's too long of a distance but because they are not M-Dot races.<<

I'd venture to guess that many triathletes have no clue that there even ARE IM-distance races that are not IM™ unless they live in the immediate area. I know people that I tell about these races--they are very surprised that such races exist. But you are right, there is that lemming thing about many triathletes.

>I think a smart move would be for Ironman IMNA to work with those indie iron distance races and brand them M-Dot races.<

Have you talked to those indie race directors???? Perhaps they do not want to be "taken over" by the almight M-Dot.

Why doesn't every just write off the new 101 series as a failure right now? That's what many of you are doing.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Funny! We live in Boulder - we don't shop at malls. We ski, hike, camp, swim/bike/run - travel. Who has time to go to a mall? Seriously, we don't even go to the mall at Christmas! So maybe it has nice shopping, but its next to Houston - which I know the Sports Guy (if any of you follow ESPN.com you know what I talking about) has coined Houston "the most boring city in America". Not exactly a travel destination. Vancouver would be cool!

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

   
“Training for the 101 will be nearly as intensive as training for an IM”

Seems like a bit of an overstatement for the average AGer. The IM run starts at 20 and the ride at 80 or so. That’s why the race will fill.
=========

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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
Ironman Certified Coach
USAT Certified Coach
Precision Nutrition Certified

I'm trying to figure out which one I can get to.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Come to Halifax....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Tom,

The only thing though with the analogy is that the 2 different distances (101.6 miles vs. 140.6 miles) do not make them equal products.

But it's like asking a customer, "Do you want an 11oz can of Coke? Or do you want an 8oz can of Pepsi?"

Or better yet it's like asking a customer to choose betwee these 3 chocies:

1. M-Dot Ironman Banded Race: Do you want an colored iPod with 4 Gigs of memory?

2. Iron Distance Race: Do you want a generic MP3 player with 4 Gigs of memory?

2. 101.6 Distance Race: Do you want a generic MP3 player with 3 Gigs of memory.

To some customers, the extra 1 Gig does not make a difference. However, choice #1 is like you said the "Gold Standard of Endurance Events".

It's an interesting debate. The one thing that it has going somewhat against it as people have mentioned is location. I looked up Clear Lake, California and it came up with 7 entries on Mapquest. Hopefully, they will do some good marketing and update their website to provide travel and accomodation information. IMO, logistics are key and they need to promote the venue and put some nice pictures on the website to get people to become comfortable with a place they've never heard of before.

Sports Guy rocks.

Good and bad points about the distance. Starting a new race series is always hard while you are trying to get established. I hope the business model allows for profit at 500-600 racers per race.

It will be interesting to see if even half the people who complain about drafting will show up to a race that should have less drafting due to less people. I just see more tough talkers than people who are willing to take action.

I can't tell you how many of my customers when they find out I do triathlons ask me "Have you done the ironman in Hawaii?" Many of these same customers live in and around phoenix and do not even know that IM AZ has taken palce for multiple years. Tons of athletes only talk about doing an IM and put that as the holy grail. This may not be the grail they are looking for.

Many like me think this is a great idea. I think IM's are over-rated, way over rated, and this distance allows one to race without shooting your wad for a whole month when you factor in taper and recovery. I really wished the Grand Columbian had worked into my schedule last year.

Yeah, I would have liked a 4k swim since I have off the front swim speed but hey whatever I won't hold that against anyone - unless i lose in a sprint finish to a slower swimmer ;-)

I think 3k won't really make that much of a difference when it comes to drafting. The large group of people that swim 33-35min for 2k will still be together at 3k but they will have lost another 5-7 min to the leaders in their AG.

What will make these races different than the 70.3 or IM draft fests is that less people will be in the race. It is much harder to draft in a group of 10 than 60 and the groups will break up sooner.

I wish the backers the best of luck and I hope at least one of these works into my schedule.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

That's true good point. Maybe they want to keep their races independent. It's good for long distance triathlon. I hope they do well. I was just thinking from a business model perspective and it probably came across as being too skeptical. I'm eager to hear race reports and experiences from people come 2007 from the 101 series.

IMO, it all comes down to the quality of the races. If they're great, they'll succeed. If not, they won't. I'm still firmly on the fence regarding the distance. I think it fills a niche, but I'm not convinced that niche is that big...

It's true of all races today. If they're good, they do well. If they aren't, they don't do well. Shannon has a good reputation, so there's every reason to think they'll be well done.

Of course, I'm a Half Iron/70.3 apologist, so you can disregard my opinion if you like:)

Michael, I was a huge sceptic going to Houston to scout this race Monday. I can say that it will be one of the nicest venues period. Everything from the uniqueness of the swim, the the bike and the run are stellar. Slowman, myself and Tim Carlson were geeked at the layout.

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infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

And at some of the 70.3 races they´re only paying out 1000 dollars for the win. Björn winning Timberman only netted 1000 dollars if I´m correct....

I hope someone told him before he signed up! IMNA 70.3 purse is $30k. If that isn't competitive, they have a larger bucket to pull from....problem solved. I was only speaking towards the IMNA events. I do like the partner model of WTC and would be curious of 101's scaleability. If they were REALLY trying to "wow" the pros, is matching enough? LTF and HyVee didn't think so.....

And a 101 race you recover much faster than after an IM. You´re sore of course but not like after an IM where I´m more like I´ve been beaten with a hammer, hard!

This might be the disconnect with triathlon. Do you want more opportunities to jump on the podium or increased reward? If the 70.3 series is any indication, we pretty much know the top 10 list at the champs (when the prize purse is higher). There are pros and cons to that argument.

more races raising the ante of athletecare and prizepurses for pro´s.

While it does surprise me that some events skimp in the accomodations of invited athletes, some of which are simply along for a paid training day. RDs look at the trend and are now denying certain athletes based upon their race calendar. They aren't stupid.....