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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [KevQ] [ In reply to ]
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KevQ wrote:
That's where Kiley can help - he's a straight shooter - he's got upper management written all over him :)
-KevQ

A Kevin Quan sighting AND an Office Space quote? I'm not sure how this thread could get any better!
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Right....because the tunnel is a totally perfect test

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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"What happens if the front wheel is not straight?" is a common question I've heard from Day 1 of the launch of the Andean. I've tried to explain it in words but I think it's best explained in pictures. So yes - I do have CFD of this exact case. Stay tuned!

I've given them to Jordan, as he was already in process of writing some DB tech articles.

KevQ
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:

Full hydro disc brakes are better brakes, which everyone seems to agree on except for Tom A.


Does this mean you have objective data showing this is the case? That's all I've been asking for...because my experience has led me to the opinion that it's not necessarily so :-P

Like you, I guess I'm just going to have to create my own test...

edit:...and it hasn't been the first time.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Apr 20, 17 14:18
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [KevQ] [ In reply to ]
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KevQ wrote:
"What happens if the front wheel is not straight?" is a common question I've heard from Day 1 of the launch of the Andean. I've tried to explain it in words but I think it's best explained in pictures. So yes - I do have CFD of this exact case. Stay tuned!

I've given them to Jordan, as he was already in process of writing some DB tech articles.

KevQ

Oh shit, this is Kevin Quan? I appreciate you tolerating my lower-brow questions with such professionalism. I honestly didn't know it was you and also am genuinely curious how it can work. I did think it was odd that you kept talking about the Andean when I was speaking about any bike that has that downtube shape. Makes sense now. My biggest apologies for not knowing!

I used to ride sportbikes and a big fan of the Ducati 996 look and such (Had a Honda VFR), so if it does turn out to work, I'm on board ASAP. Can't wait to see those pics.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
KevQ wrote:
BTW, I think this test was great regardless where the Andean will place. This new generation of Triathlon bikes has given consumers more choices than ever before. Perhaps, this breadth of choice has lead to confusion and as an industry we have to do better to communicate.


Thanks for the explanation and kind words, Kevin. And agree with you as you know on the communication and as I've said here.

Disregarding aero, I think the Andean has its challenges -- the current state of disc braking and peripheral components (wheels, hydraulic Di2 levers, and the like) being chief among them -- and its huge merits: amazing design, hawt as all hell, and possibly a winner at high yaw given the engineering behind it that was designed to "win the championship".

I don't know if I will keep it honestly, most of all that the wheels I acquired for the bike's braking system -- the Enve 7.8 SES disc hoops -- are intolerably difficult to mount a tire on. And that's a regular tire, not a tubeless tire. This is the only wheelset on the market that isn't just a rim brake rim slapped into a disc brake hub, and I have to break levers just to get my race tires on the rim. Being an early adopter here is fraught with downsides, but this tech is going to get a lot better quickly. Imminent are Dura Ace hydro TT levers, for instance, and I would be shocked if disc brake rim molds aren't in the works over at SRAM. In fact we may see that on rappstar's bike this weekend, apparently.

Full hydro disc brakes are better brakes, which everyone seems to agree on except for Tom A. But it's still early yet on their practicality as an end consumer.

These are all fast bikes. They are all great bikes. But they are different bikes. The rest of us consumers just need to sort through all that to make purchase decisions, if we decide to buy new bikes at all.

There was a ST Facebook Live video yesterday of him assembling his Andean at the Woodland's venue where he was speaking. The brake levers could be hydro, but I didn't see answers to the comments regarding the levers. His Zipp bars and pads/holders look a bit different than the existing Vuka too, but no answer about them either. He has still photo of the assembled bike on his FB page with the brake levers visible.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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I can't tell about the brake levers, but his wheels look like they have a brake track still. At least there is a strip ~1cm wide that runs around the length of his rim that reflects the light differently.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
I can't tell about the brake levers, but his wheels look like they have a brake track still. At least there is a strip ~1cm wide that runs around the length of his rim that reflects the light differently.

Bar is the new VukaClip (whatever that is) on the Vuka Bull. Brave man hacking up the andean stem like that.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
I can't tell about the brake levers, but his wheels look like they have a brake track still. At least there is a strip ~1cm wide that runs around the length of his rim that reflects the light differently.

Yeah I don't think Zipp has offered up any rims yet that were specifically created for disc brakes. Kiley mentions that this is how he ended up using the Enve wheels for his tunnel tests as they offer different rims for rim vs. disc brakes.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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"Bar is the new VukaClip (whatever that is) on the Vuka Bull. Brave man hacking up the andean stem like that."

i'm not recommending anyone hack the stem. but i would probably hack MY stem, if i needed to. but i have HEARD profile's aeria fits in that stem and if so that settles it for me. i had one of these. lost it (jordan stole it). so i'm hoping to get my hands on another one and will hope to put an aeria on there. if it fits, then i'm all set.

the vuka clip is new. it's better than the previous. i've got it in all 4 configurations it comes in, and we'll be using it at our upcoming F.I.S.T. Workshop starting monday. i'll take some pics of it if you want. also, nathan schickel from zipp will be at that workshop, if you have any questions on what they're doing i would imagine we could arrange a Q&A.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
the vuka clip is new. it's better than the previous. i've got it in all 4 configurations it comes in, and we'll be using it at our upcoming F.I.S.T. Workshop starting monday. i'll take some pics of it if you want. also, nathan schickel from zipp will be at that workshop, if you have any questions on what they're doing i would imagine we could arrange a Q&A.

I WANT

Especially because the presumption is that the Corsair is slow. Importantly, what would the lowest stack be relative to the Corsair low stack on the Andean. And sounds like reach is covered. Would also love to know whether they made accommodations for Di2 junctions and e-tube wiring, like the new Enve stem. Why these companies refuse to put a small e-tube size hole in the clamp is beyond me, frankly.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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i don't think the corsair is slow. it's that the corsair is limited. i really suspect that bar was an outcropping of the alp d'huez TT back in 2007 or whenever that was. i was driving on mulholland drive and i pulled up behind some parked cars. it was lance and his follow car and steve hed was on the ground grinding the armrest against the pavement, to fine tune it so that you could climb with it (on your road bike) out of the saddle without banging your knee on it.

as you can see, this bar has flip up pads. it doesn't have pedestal capability because if you put it on road bars on a road bike you don't need pedestals. and the bar is old tech.

as i've written before, the one and only one beef i have with this bike is in the stem/bar area. i don't like the bar spec'd, and i don't like that the stem limits the bars you can put on there. when these problems are overcome this is going to be a hell of a bike, in particular because of the sales process (the configurator, and the options). as i've said before, both for road and tri, what a lot of you think is going to happen when canyon gets here is quietly already happening over at dback.

anyway, the bar you want, for now, is the aeria if it fits. i'm going to try to get that sorted out.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
as i've written before, the one and only one beef i have with this bike is in the stem/bar area.

I don't disagree with you as long as you're talking about the steerer as well -- trying to cut that thing, or actually just removing the top cap, which needs to sit flush, was quite the ordeal and I'm still not done yet as I can't figure out this star nut thing. Really a tough proposition for a direct to consumer product that arrived to me not configured to my stack and reach but stacked up to the ceiling with spacers.

They chose the 1" steerer I guess to provide for the exceptionally narrow head tube. But it doesn't yield a very good customer experience in terms of fit, not to mention that we low stack folks will need to shell out for a new fork (price, anyone?) if we ever want to sell it to someone who wants to ride more stack.

Smaller gripes include that I cannot get the rubber top that is supposed to fit down into the speed box into the speed box. I had to electrical tape it for testing.

We are really going off topic here now.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah you do. I also do the roadie/TT'er trick of sliding a gel under the hem of my trisuit.


BryanD wrote:
I don't know anyone who reaches back to get gels out of their suit while on a bike.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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"trying to cut that thing, or actually just removing the top cap, which needs to sit flush, was quite the ordeal"

you don't have the tools i have ;-)

"it doesn't yield a very good customer experience in terms of fit, not to mention that we low stack folks will need to shell out for a new fork (price, anyone?) if we ever want to sell it to someone who wants to ride more stack."

it's no different than many or most bikes. it's no different than the felt IAx. there is no steerer sticking up above that stem. there is one stem for that bike. no adjustment. no spacers. all the spacing occurs on the aerobar. the problem with the andean is that it contemplates height adjustment the way the P5 did, with those aero pedestals under the stem. that's not the right way. the felt's way is the right way. but that presupposes a bar that pedestals under the pads. that's what the andean needs to move to. that fixes the only thing wrong with the bike.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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At the end of the day it's just a really really hawt bike. Looks way better than I expected it to.



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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
At the end of the day it's just a really really hawt bike. Looks way better than I expected it to.




The photographic results of your testing leave a lot to the imagination. And you complain of a lack of transparency from bike manufacturers?!?!?

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:

anyway, the bar you want, for now, is the aeria if it fits. i'm going to try to get that sorted out.

What is the width of the Andean stem? Are there other fit constraints to it that limit bar choice?
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Did you see the front page article? Did you see the AeroCamp page on Facebook? and there are more coming, as repeatedly detailed.

What an incredibly ignorant statement
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
At the end of the day it's just a really really hawt bike. Looks way better than I expected it to.




Pix or it didn't happen, dude. You know the rules ;-) Where are your photos or are you too ignorant to post photographs inside of a thread? And you are preparing a White Paper?

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Slowman wrote:
the vuka clip is new. it's better than the previous. i've got it in all 4 configurations it comes in, and we'll be using it at our upcoming F.I.S.T. Workshop starting monday. i'll take some pics of it if you want. also, nathan schickel from zipp will be at that workshop, if you have any questions on what they're doing i would imagine we could arrange a Q&A.


I WANT

Especially because the presumption is that the Corsair is slow. Importantly, what would the lowest stack be relative to the Corsair low stack on the Andean. And sounds like reach is covered. Would also love to know whether they made accommodations for Di2 junctions and e-tube wiring, like the new Enve stem. Why these companies refuse to put a small e-tube size hole in the clamp is beyond me, frankly.

It will be interesting to see if the new Vuka bar combo offers any lower stack options than their past combos. If you didn't see Jordan's installation he's running undermounted extensions: Rapp Andean IMTX config
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dan

My new stem is still under development. When it is ready, will hide di2 internally and be easy to wrench. Aerobar will follow later once I get the aerobar tilt and bar bore attachment working and passing all safety protocalls.

When its further along, can send you PM about details

Joshua
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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It is great to see this actually happened!

Is there still some help needed analyzing the data? I am not an expert on wind tunnel data but got a background in computational biology / neuroscience and happy to help.

Guido
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Flo and the Coggan-led TriRig brake testing are the gold standard for industry transparency in testing, in my opinion. It rapidly goes downhill from there.

Thanks, but just to be clear: I'm just a hobbyist, and have no real connection to the cycling industry.*

*Obviously my ideas are incorporated into WKO4 as well as lots of other analytical software/websites...but at least according to the Interbike folks, the cycling industry consists of those who produce things that are sold in bicycle shops.
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Re: The Aero Bike Shootout TEST DAY THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i really suspect that bar was an outcropping of the alp d'huez TT back in 2007 or whenever that was.

The last time alp d'huez was a TT in the Tour was in 2004, and Mr. Armstrong won that particular TT. It was fun to watch that stage in person.
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