Says the guy who tried to store a flat kit in his chest in a wind tunnel.....Let me know how that giant bulge in your suit works out when trying to get clean data

Let me know how that giant bulge in your suit works out

There is actually a way to prove or disprove, and I've attempted it to counter Cervelo -- and, it turns out, Cervelo is pretty much right and I am pretty much wrong. Goes like this

1) Go into the results for last year's Kona.
2) Pull the bib numbers of the Umeke winners. Try for an obsessive compulsive age bracket like M30-34 or M40-44. It doesn't matter really.
3) Go to Finisherpix. Type in Bib Number. Scroll to side profile shot in the lava fields.
4) Review hydration and nutrition and storage setups.

The reality is this. Even the best age groupers in the world are carrying bottles on the down tube in a hot 140.6. Even the best age groupers in the world commit aero sins. In general, their setups are far cleaner than the MOP'r at your average MDot race. They don't have gels strapped on the top tube. But they aren't necessarily all out aero, as I was in the tunnel.

Do I agree with how Cervelo designed the bike? No, not really, not for me. But I understand why they did now that I've done some of my own research.

Frames make little difference, that is already been established imo. Size of frame will be even more marginal.

For those of us who know how to put together a bike like this, assuming it's fast or at least not slow, there's not much reason to buy these higher end bikes from an aero perspective.

I couldn't even remove my rear wheel from horizontal dropouts without getting chain grease all over my hands three years ago.

Based on what you've just said, the P5X is a bike for people with lots of disposable income and little sense.

That's what everyone else has been saying, as well.

We could have been spared from wasting all of this time and all of these words!

Yes, that's what I said. People with disposable income and no sense.

I just wanted to throw it out there that I love this project, it's like a jab in the eye to all the so called research these companies feed us and expect everyone to blindly believe. Extra kudos to the manufacturers who showed up and put their best foot forward, that takes balls IMO.

Has it? The P5 white paper seems to say otherwise. And the P5-X is faster still.

You may be right, but I don't know if it has been established independently. The Premier Tactical is supposedly 15 watts faster than the Felt IA per the ERO testing. Is that milliwatts? I could give more examples.

They haven't tested a significant range of product.
This really isn't anything to speak of.

I'm not even sure what the conclusions can possibly be.

Sorry - this may have been talked about already did you guys test with rider only at 50 kph??

Bike only vs bike only will certainly see differences. But here a less aerodynamic bike could be better with a rider aboard as it is designed (or should be designed) to blow air around the rider's body parts.

..., Dan has made the statement that Cervelo released the P5-X with the largest amount of data ever. That may be true for industry insiders -- we know they did a lot of testing, and I have spoken with at least three folks from three different firms who have seen the data. Dan has seen this data, of course. But it's just not true for customers -- you have not seen it. I have not seen it. That's okay, though! Maybe they have their reasons for this and chief among them might be because explaining this stuff to consumers is very hard. These tests are complex; they have sources of error; and all protocols will come under scrutiny by a keen eye. That's a business decision for Cervelo, but I don't think the way Cervelo has released this bike and explained its aerodynamic benefit to consumers has been 'transparent' compared to the way I will explain this testing, release raw data, and interact with/answer questions about the testing. If Dan and I still disagree on this point, which it seems we do, fine. I'm not going to get all snarky about it anymore because that's just not productive either. I have a White Paper to write and there's no use continuing to talk past each other or get heated and let this thing devolve into a super stan ban slam.