Absolutely Dev. The real life fusion of kileyay and PubliusValerius showed up to the tunnel and did a fair amount of shit talking and a lot of just the opposite. The truth is somewhere in between those two, and depending on the circumstance, you may very well get both.

I have a lot of thoughts on this. I would like to write up more of it, but I just don't see having the time in the near future so I'll lay it out here

I am really surprised at how much I like it. It's one of those bikes whose maker obviously sweated all the details. It's just really well conceived. Everything was thought through painstakingly, and it designed for you, for us, and by that I mean not for triathletes but for slowtwitchers who also sweat the details; who want all out aero; who want functionality; and who want ease of ownership.

The base bar and whole front end is impressive as shit. The bar, though, looks like the Ventus II married the Speed Concept. It looks amazing, and it's as sturdy as they come. What I don't like so much is that you can't get multiple extension shapes (which could potentially impact aero on an individual basis) and that there isn't a good way to mount a regular BTA bottle (like bosses on the stem, or a plate between the pads, or whatever). The company recommends a Profile Design hydration system, but I've never loved those things you can refill and such. I just like round bottles. YMMV

There is no steerer, which is a crazy innovation. I don't know or understand exactly how it works, but I'm told it's easy.

The entire rear wheel is shrouded in an effort to clean up the air flow into the tires/tracks around there. Is it fast? I don't know, but this design supposedly tested fast on this bicycle.

The brakes are fine. They are going to stop the bike.

Everything is custom made for this bike. The seatpost clamp. The dropout style. The Speedbox things off the back, which are different for every size to map nicely to the top tube. The attention to detail is...well, it's not something you normally see in these types of products.

Besides all of that, in my opinion the case is genius -- it's just a leap forward in case design if you're okay traveling with a large case (I'm not, by the way, because I don't believe the airlines won't screw me).

There are some downsides:

The graphics aren't good. They aren't attractive -- or they aren't to me. The matte finish isn't terrible and it isn't great. I wish I didn't but I care about the looks of these bikes and I would struggle to be happy with this bike from the outset, as seen, with its current graphical design. I would get it custom painted if I bought it.

The caveat to all this is that I have no idea if it's a quality product. I didn't even ride it outside.

I think the community is going to get more from this testing than I got from it. That's all I can say for now.

"There is no steerer, which is a crazy innovation. I don't know or understand exactly how it works, but I'm told it's easy."

it's easy.

when the bike was here at the compound, we had some trouble with it, but it was just the lack of a centering ring that fit correctly. i found it curious that the factory didn't recognize this but it was a simple fix.

"The brakes are fine. They are going to stop the bike."

the brakes are a tririg homage. i'm sure if you're tririg the brakes are a tririg ripoff. but it's like all the speed box copies on so many tri bikes. good ideas get copied, good designs get copied. the tririg is a brilliant design and dan could not have picked a better brake to emulate for his bike.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Great job and thank you for doing this test! Looking forward to the results, ultimately, I think I'll just be happy with my Speed Concept Gen 2. But these bikes all look awesome.

Wondering if you took into account different body's and positions? Looks like the tester is pretty fit and a top AGer, but curious how they bikes would perform at "normal" AG bike speeds and someone more upright, etc..

Thanks!

kileyay wrote:

What I don't like so much is that you can't get multiple extension shapes (which could potentially impact aero on an individual basis) and that there isn't a good way to mount a regular BTA bottle (like bosses on the stem, or a plate between the pads, or whatever).

I picked up on that watching the facebook feeds come in, or more's the point what I picked up on was that your hands appeared lower relative to your elbows on the Tactical. That's the one thing that worries me with that bike, and I'm guessing with the proprietary steerer-less assembly that you can't just whack your own bars on there? I did wonder if it was possible to tilt the extensions; when I checked out the exploded view on the premier web page there are a couple of spacers shown which look like they might accomodate that (item #1 on the lower diagram)?

https://www.premierholding.org/.../bike-geometry-chart

The guy you replied to (kileyay) was the tester. He was the only tester and the positions were the same across all bikes. You start throwing more testers and different positions, you come away with data that you can't compare and is essentially useless for anyone else (unless you do it on every single bike which would take a lot of more time and $$$$).

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blog

It appears the extension set up is the same as that of the Pro Missile Evo bars. Ovular extensions pinned between the arm pads and the bars with two semi-circle friction spacers. As such, I don't think angling is possible, though I'm sure Dan can chime in.

I thought Dan had posted on here awhile back that he was working on a bta mount.

Overall sounds like you were very pleased, I'll look forward to the aero results.

Even though I'm 6'10 and doubt this bike would ever fit me, it sure is an intriguing option. Even in the pictures I'll have to agree with you about the graphics, but I kinda like that about it. I wish more bike companies offered a nude frame.

All good, looking forward to results.

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Internet User

Nice to read a review of this bike. I've been very interested in it since it was announced.

The BTA and extension issue may be solved by new add-on components later on. I don't see those a deal breaker.

I agree on the paint job and the graphics though. I have sent Dan a mockup of a paint job I think suits the bike better, and have commented here and other places on his graphics, particularly the logo and it's stylistic treatment. I said it before here on ST, I think the use of a traditional serif typeface for a sports product is completely wrong. A serif could be used, but carefully selected and likely modified. Further, the blue just does not play well with black - in order for blue to work well with black on this kind of product, it requires much higher contrast, so a lighter, less "default Photoshop blue" blue would work far better. This is the biggest issue I have with the bike and is a deal breaker for me. I want to lust after it, not reason with myself about why it's cool.

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Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

Agree on all that. You could get it custom painted but by then the frameset is around the same cost as a Speed Concept, which I think is a much safer bike to spend that much money on. We can all implicitly trust Trek, which I can't say about Premier -- for a full bike.

The chain I trust. The chain I will buy for every bike I own. That's a no brainer. Others think so too as they are supposedly flying off the shelves

I'm beginning to think the same thing.

We have added a tilt spacer for those that want more tilt.

Edit:

Just had a chance to read some more posts. The stem cover is alloy, it can be drilled and tapped for a BTA. Because the FC-35 works so well from an aero perspective on this bike - that is what we recommend; however some people like a BTA and we are happy to accommodate that.

I agree that our "Paint - Decal" look could be better and we will work on that. I just don't want our customers to be moving billboards for us. I believe companies put their names in too many places and over these bikes and it is not pleasing to me. Again, we concentrated on performance first - better look to follow :-) I promise.

The issue Dan E talked about on the stem was an omission of the centering ring for the bike that we airship out to meet the November Wind Tunnel and velodrome testing date. It was just an oversight in the rush to get the bike from Taiwan to California and Dan E was quick to identify it. No issue.

We will be coming out with additional extension options that can be a swapped out for the current extensions.

As an aside - I tried Jens trick "bought a first class ticket" (+$150) round trip and again had no charge on transporting the bike in the hard travel case to and from NC from Chicago.

Nice view from the front of the plane for a change :-)

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I think it is funny that you never had your helmet off and it just added to the mystic of Kileyay/Pubes. lol

I am very excited to see how the FELT compared. Having a modified P2C which I do feel is still very aero, I would like to see how your FELT compared.

 
is it possible to set that bike up UCI legal?

Dan,

Not sure I got to tell you this before you left yesterday but I'm very impressed by all the little things you've done with the Premier.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I just wanted to throw it out there that I love this project, it's like a jab in the eye to all the so called research these companies feed us and expect everyone to blindly believe. Extra kudos to the manufacturers who showed up and put their best foot forward, that takes balls IMO.

Special thanks to all who participated and made this happen, I'd love to see a similar test done with a MOP athlete. But thanks again to all who participated in and made this possible!

The bike can not be set up UCI legal.


I copied my earlier post and edit to include most of the additional information here.


We have added a tilt spacer for those that want more tilt.

Just had a chance to read some more posts. The stem cover is alloy, it can be drilled and tapped for a BTA. Because the FC-35 works so well from an aero perspective on this bike - that is what we recommend; however some people like a BTA and we are happy to accommodate that.

I agree that our "Paint - Decal" look could be better and we will work on that. I just don't want our customers to be moving billboards for us. I believe companies put their names in too many places and over these bikes and it is not pleasing to me. Again, we concentrated on performance first - better look to follow :-) I promise.

The issue Dan E talked about on the stem was an omission of the centering ring for the bike that we airship out to meet the November Wind Tunnel and velodrome testing date. It was just an oversight in the rush to get the bike from Taiwan to California and Dan E was quick to identify it. No issue.

We will be coming out with additional extension options that can be a swapped out for the current extensions.

As an aside - I tried Jens trick "bought a first class ticket" (+$150) round trip and again had no charge on transporting the bike in the hard travel case to and from NC from Chicago.

Nice view from the front of the plane for a change :-)

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

"it's like a jab in the eye to all the so called research these companies feed us and expect everyone to blindly believe."

second time i've read this today. what if it turns out that this test confirms the "research these companies feed us"?

what is it you're asking for? i've seen cervelo bashed today for not giving us enough research on its P5X. now it's a company that is "feeding us research"?

you guys want to tell me what your expectations are here? because i'm getting whiplash.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I expect that all the bikes will be so close that it doesn't matter, for me anyway. In which case I will do as I always have, get the best looking option :)

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--Chris

The curious things I'm wondering.

A) what watts difference is acceptable to being the "difference"...IE is 5w enough to announce that A is clearly better than B, C and D. Or is it so "close" that it becomes a political term, "too close to call". So I guess I'm asking yes you can name a winner as the "faster" bike, but I'm also wondering, is there a threshold allowance that we can legitly say....these bikes are all very close and thus buy what you want/like/feel comfortable on, etc. Or is 3w difference enough to say, this is clearly the fastest bike after this particular protocol testing.

B) IF it turns out that at this particular testing all the bikes are fairly even, does it validate the claims by each bike manufactor? Does it devalue what they are putting out to the public?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

In the spirit of this crowd-sourced effort (awesome work BTW) why not put a design contest out to the tri community? Maybe offer up a frame set for the winning design...

 
5 pages of responses and no actual data.

I'll bet each of the following would make a much bigger difference than which of these frames you use:

1) Your position on the bike
2) The discipline of your position on the bike (I see so many people in races with great positions, who inadvertently splay their knees way out or periscope their head so bad that they may as well ride in a road position)
3) Your clothing
4) How your tires match your wheels
5) The stupid race number flapping around
6) The rolling resistance of your tires
7) Powercranks
....

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

You will get data when the data is ready

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/