It would be possible with the technology used. However as of right now I have other things on the priority list. I suggest using a good video player like VLC and put it on the second monitor, you will loose auto-start/resume functionality with the workout though. If it's really a turn-down to use this solution, I can see to do it later.


I can add a function to let people control the font manually on each widget, adding to TODO list (see my first post on top for the list)

Sure I would like the software to be compatible with most trainers in the future. However, the team is pretty small right now so it's not going to happen tomorrow (I need to learn how Kickr and CT works so I can integrate them)
Thanks!

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

Just to clarify, it's definitely not a turn-down or anything. It would be a very cool nice-to-have, but I can understand that there would be much higher priorities! Thanks for the reply!

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Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador

Perfect, I added it to the "nice-to-have" list, will do when I get more time ;)
Thanks for the comments!

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

Hey Fruity, I increased the size of the font for the avg power, etc.
Later I will add an option so people can select the font size they want.
Check out the new version was just updated, let me know what you think.
Good training!

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

the new font is delightful

Hey guys, I'm currently working to implement this function and would like to understand better so I do the right thing.

Let say you enable "Average power" option on 3 seconds, do you want the program to show you one new power value every 3 second (the average of all the value received during theses 3 seconds)?
I could do that but you will loose a bit of the "instant" feedback in the software, is this okay? For example, the real-time graph would only give you a new point every 3 seconds (instead of 4 points per second with no averaging).
Also, if you start an hard interval, you will notice a little bit later that your power has risen up.
This would also mean that your history file (.tcx) would have less information (currently saving power data for every second of the workout).
Let me know if i'm missing something,

Thanks,
Max

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

If possible, I would prefer it to calculate every second by doing a trailing 3 second average. Meaning each second it adds a second and removes the oldest second from the average.

If I understand correctly, if my average power is set to 3 seconds, let's say on seconds on the 10th second of my ride, the screen will display the average for seconds 8,9,10. On second 11 of the ride the average will be 9,10,11.
What I'm trying to say is we still get a new number every second with only one data point changing per second. This means the variability in power each second is smoothed by the other two data points used in the average and that each second of riding only impacts the average by 33% to smooth the variability.
I may be mistaken but I feel that is right because my garmin 500 spits out a new number every second even though it is set to 3sec average and is much less variable than maximum trainer's numbers.

Oh I get it now, thanks for getting my brain to work again ;)
Back to work, I'll let you know when 1.06 is out, -fixed target power interval and averaging power will be in it

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

Yep, 3sec rolling average like you use to calculate NP. That's the best option. That's probably just enough to get a more stable number without having a disturbing lag when power changes quickly.
While I'm here now, I'd like to know why people want predicted values for AP, NP, IF. I get it for TSS because that is very helpful for longer term training planning. With TSS you can forecast CTL, ATL and TSB and that will show if your training plan provides enough stimuli without getting you completely worn-out.
An outcome from that would be that a TSS target should be added as a condition to stop an interval. (More work coming your way Max???)
When your training plan indicates an aerobic workout with a TSS of 150, make a workout with power targets in the aerobic zone, and interval time should then run as long as you didn't reach the TSS goal.
Makes sense?
Looking forward to read your responses/ideas.

I guess people wanted AP, NP, IF and TSS, not sure if they needed "predicted" and/or "real-time" values? Right now there is only predicted values. I could also calculate theses values in real-time when you are working out, so you can see if you are on target or not?

As for CTL, ATL and TSB, theses values would be best suited in your "profile" tab right?. I could calculate them, but not sure I want to go this way, the workout analysis softwares out there already calculate that right (SportTracks, Golden Cheetah)? I don't want to competition them but keep the software focused on workout guidance/motivation tool and not turn it into a planning/analysis software.

If your workout expects a TSS of 150, you only know at the end of the workout if you are under target? Or maybe I could calculate the expected TSS at every second of the workout, and check if you are under that or not with your current TSS? Not sure I would force the interval to keep going until you reach the expected TSS value, because I can see people "cheating" working hard on a short interval so that it becomes a long medium interval. I would prefer to only show if you are behind your expected TSS, and if so the user choose what to do (work harder a few seconds to get back up, or keep it under and live with it).

Let me know if real-time value of NP, IF, TSS in comparison to the target would be useful or not?

Thanks for the great ideas as always :)

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

Quote:

I guess people wanted AP, NP, IF and TSS, not sure if they needed "predicted" and/or "real-time" values? Right now there is only predicted values. I could also calculate theses values in real-time when you are working out, so you can see if you are on target or not?

That’s exactly the reason for my question which was by the way also addressed to the requesters and not only to you. Personally, I don’t see much use for it except for real-time TSS and then only during aerobic workouts. I use former workout results for predicting TSS. For pure aerobic workouts, real time TSS can be an asset. Ride in your aerobic zone until your TSS target is met. Most people who train on a regular base will have a pretty good idea of what TSS/hr they ride during an aerobic workout and can simply set a duration that will be fairly close.
On the other hand, I’m a cyclist on a Triathlon forum, so targets/methods and interests may be different. I’m always open for training advice!

Quote:

As for CTL, ATL and TSB, theses values would be best suited in your "profile" tab right?. I could calculate them, but not sure I want to go this way, the workout analysis softwares out there already calculate that right (SportTracks, Golden Cheetah)? I don't want to competition them but keep the software focused on workout guidance/motivation tool and not turn it into a planning/analysis software.

I fully agree. There are enough very good post-ride analysis tools available from free to expensive, basic to advanced, offline/online. You named two. Other well-known ones are Garmin Connect and TrainingPeaks WKO+. One of the reasons for my interest in MaximumTrainer is your “Story” published on the website (Yes, I’m the kind of guy who reads that :-) ). The aim should be to develop the best trainer software available! So don’t waste time and energy on re-inventing the wheel.

Quote:

If your workout expects a TSS of 150, you only know at the end of the workout if you are under target? Or maybe I could calculate the expected TSS at every second of the workout, and check if you are under that or not with your current TSS? Not sure I would force the interval to keep going until you reach the expected TSS value, because I can see people "cheating" working hard on a short interval so that it becomes a long medium interval. I would prefer to only show if you are behind your expected TSS, and if so the user choose what to do (work harder a few seconds to get back up, or keep it under and live with it).


Let me know if real-time value of NP, IF, TSS in comparison to the target would be useful or not?

No one can protect you from cheating yourself. It is similar to entering an incorrect FTP value… If you are serious about your training, you just don’t do that.
I can have real-time TSS on my Garmin and sometimes use it for an aerobic or LSD ride where I want a certain amount of TSS that is scheduled in my plan. Using a TSS target for interval training is meaningless. In an interval training you have to focus on Power Targets/Intensity. TSS will probably be very close for the same kind of workouts but I can’t see any benefit on real time monitoring it for those.
You should not compare the real-time value to anything. Power or Heart Rate target (I always use HR for aerobic training) within the aerobic zone and interval duration until TSS target is met. If you feel like doing a little slower, ride a bit longer and vice versa. It doesn’t really matter because aerobic workouts are aimed at raising your aerobic capacity. To raise your aerobic power, you will need to do more intensive interval training.

One of the things I never do on my trainer, is watching movies. If others are, I hope they come forward with their requests. That will help Max to fine tune that part equally. He’s very responsive and things are moving fast!

Hey Claude,

About the TSS target, I thought this metric is useful to know for the complete workout?
For example, if you want to do a workout of 150 TSS, you can create a custom workout with intervals that is equals to the desired TSS.
You can always edit a workout by right clicking in the list and selecting "edit", so that you can create workout equals to what TSS you want and then just follow the power intervals? I don't have much cycling background, so I may be missing something, I always train with intervals even for the long easy ride, I just put a long easy target interval.

Cool that you like the "story" ;) It started as a project "for me" because I wanted to train with this tool, I'm happy to see more people interested in it! With all the good ideas, it will become even better than what I expected.

You will get prompted for the new version when it's out (probably monday/tuesday)
See you!

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

I guess this has to do with the interpretation of "Interval Training". Interval training doesn't just mean cutting up your workout in pieces. When people are talking about interval training, they usualy mean High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). On those workouts, you aim Power targets that are beyond your FTP and Interval duration gets shorter as you aim higher targets. By nature these workouts are short, let's say less than an hour with warmup (thorough warmup required) and cooldown included. Ideal to do on a trainer, because they are short, well monitored and in similar circumstances.
I dare you to try a HIIT workout with 150TSS: you will probably fall of the bike completely exhausted before you get to those numbers. My HIIT workouts usualy turn out to have 80-100TSS.
The TSS metric is usefull for all workouts as a monitoring metric after the workout: it shows how hard you worked but you can have the same TSS coming from a short HIIT or a medium long aerobic workout. Both of these have a similar effect on long term fitness but they target a different "system" in your body (VO2, aerobic base). Bassicaly, if you always workout in the aerobic zone, you will fairly quickly come to a speed/power "plateau". Workouts in the higher zones will allow you to avoid the plateau.
I suggest you read the book "Training and Racing with a Power Meter" by Allen & Coggan. They are the developpers behind the ATL, CTL, TSB, TSS system.

The power moving average is now inside 1.06. I tested it and I really liked value around 2-3sec, let me know how it works for you!
Release notes here : https://maximumtrainer.com/news
Any other things you will like to get improved or new feature let me know, it may come a bit slower this time as I'm trying to get the Mac beta out soon.


Will definitely check that, not the first time I hear someone recommend this book! I guess I probably do too much HIIT, they are the most "fun" to me :)

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

I have yet to try the moving average but it is much better to create workouts for me now that I put in a wattage rather than percentage. thanks.

I am really enjoying the recent changes you have made and I am excited to see the software continue to improve. Here are a couple of suggestions I have:

1. Ability to delete default workouts
2. Option to show HR as % of Max and Power as % of FTP in the detail view

I will try the new version this evening.
@bigsur28: if you don’t like the default workouts, name your own workouts with a 01, 02,…, 99 at the beginning. The workouts are by default sorted by name and the default ones will be at the lower end.
For the rest it seems like there are people who prefer % and others prefer absolute values. Max will have to take this into account for future development.
I made up all my workouts now with absolute values and found a shortcoming: there is at this time no possibility to cut an interval short. If you can’t make it you have two possibilities:
· Stop working and start recovering while listening to the sound alerts. That’s a bit demotivating…
· Stop the workout completely but then you don’t have a proper cooldown. I like to monitor my cooldown phase because it tells a lot about your recovery/freshness
I also do every now and then a ramp test: progressive interval from 80W to failure with a raise of 20W/min. This is a protocol that is used in many labs to find your VO2max and HRmax. In the workout I specified an interval of 16 min progressively increasing from 80-400W. I can only dream to ever reach 400w ;-). It would be nice to have a button on the screen that stops the actual interval and jumps to the next (cooldown).
Maybe Max can add it to the todo list, but I can understand that the Mac version is priority now. The more people we can get in this project, the better.

Sounds good those changes shouldn't take long, I'll put them in next! :)




Yeah I had this happen to me also, I did an hard workout one day and just couldn't follow it, I had to go in the option and deactivate the sound alerts. We can see what option would be better here, a button to jump to the next interval could be possible, but it may be a bit hard to program because a lot of things are connected to the current time (graph, saving history file, etc.). If you have other ideas, like an option that disable sound alert after X time under your target or something like this. Almost done with the MAC version.

Happy training!

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

Any plans to open it up to bluetooth sensors in addition to the ant+ ones?

Hey fisherman, it is not planned in the near future. However, when the Win/Mac version feels polished enough, I will see if it can be done (if enough people request it).

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

The ability to one click to the start of the next interval period would be a great feature. Jumping ahead is something that Golden Cheetah has. I've used it a few times when I had to cut some workouts short. I don't recall how it exactly works maybe 15 or 20 sec jumps per click. All I remember is having to click the >> button a lot to move ahead 5' to 15'.

Could there be the ability to create a workout(s) by importing a spreadsheet file (e.g. CSV)? I have a 14 week program in excel that I would love to be able to import in even if I had to make changes in the structure to line up the formatting.

I'll be getting on the trainer here soon to play with the program (took some time off after my last race).

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<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>

One other question. Can I share workouts I made with others? I haven't looked into the program all that much for the sharing ability.

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<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>

That would be a good idea to jump some time, another thing I'm thinking is to make the workout like a video player progress bar, where you can click and it moves you directly to that point in the workout (could go forward or go back at any point).

At the moment, you can only create workouts using the workout editor. I don't know the format of all the possible workout file so making an spreadsheet importer is not really a solution. What would be great is if someone create some plans like that inside the software and share it, I could put the plan (.zip file) online to download for everyone, if you get the permission of the author of course :)




Yeah you can share workout easily.
1 - Create the workout in the workout editor, save it
2 - Send the workout file to your friend
Here is a screenshot on how to access your Workouts folder, you can group your workouts into folders if you want to organize things.

If you need any help feel free!
Max

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Free Indoor Cycling Software - https://maximumtrainer.com

Awesome what you did with the messages! They now have my full attention: displayed at the point of interest and not getting in the way of anything else.
Rolling average works like a charm to. I used 2sec and it has my full approval.
I had another problem with importing the TCX in Sporttracks but was able to solve it by editing the TCX. The cause of the error was a negative calorie value, which was the result of a glitch in the power track (huge neg value). TCX and lines with problems have been sent by mail.

Did I understand correctly that creating subfolders in the Workout folder allow the workouts to be sorted by the name of the subfolder in the Plan column?