h2ofun wrote:
No matter what you do, it is just do it. I spend the last 9 months, 7 days a week on the trainer. Even with DVD's boring but I guess nothing is better than time in the saddle.
This, unfortunately
Triathlon Forum
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: indoor cycling training [h2ofun]
[ In reply to ]
time in the saddle.
This, unfortunately
Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin]
[ In reply to ]
Kevin, many thanks for sharing your training. I've been trying to incorporate aspects of your program since about mid September. Thanks for answering my previous questions on getting started. A couple of questions have come up since then though. Using my FTP to calculate 85-88% value for the workouts, I have found that by the end of several week days I'm somewhat fatigued. I can still do threshold workouts but VO2 range is tough to hit on some of the hills on my Saturday ride. My FTP is 310 and I'm holding 270 to 285 for the threshold to sweet spot workouts. I may be pushing it a little too hard on the weekends with ~4 to 5 hr rides that have a TSS of around 300 and an easier 2.5 hr ride on Sunday with a TSS of around 80 to 130. I'll usually take Monday off but on Tuesday I still only really feel like only doing 1 X 20. My question to you is, do you think I'm riding too hard on the weekends? I feel as if I'm working pretty hard at 85-88% of my FTP during the week and I'm going into my longer weekend workouts tired. I plan on testing in two weeks and am looking forward to the results since my last years training schedule had me at pretty much the same CTL at this same time. Thanks again.
Re: indoor cycling training [TPerry]
[ In reply to ]
My weekend rides are actually fairly easy. Using TSS as a metric they range from about 120 on the low side to maybe 200.
Example, on Saturday 11/10. ~4:45 on the bike, 183 TSS.
Sunday 11/18 is a pretty good representation of my Sunday rides. ~4:25 on the bike, 162 TSS.
These are NOT hard rides. They are rides where I enjoy being on the bike with my friends. The hard work is indoors M-F. Sure, I'll hit the gas for a while on a climb if I feel like it, but 90% of it is pretty conversational. There is time for the weekends to be hard later as I start racing and then when the sun comes back and I can ride outdoors during the week my weekday rides get more traditional. i.e. hard/easy Except at that point, hard becomes REALLY hard. FTP, VO2 max and above intervals.
It's all public on Training Peaks and Strava if you're interested.
Kevin
http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Example, on Saturday 11/10. ~4:45 on the bike, 183 TSS.
Sunday 11/18 is a pretty good representation of my Sunday rides. ~4:25 on the bike, 162 TSS.
These are NOT hard rides. They are rides where I enjoy being on the bike with my friends. The hard work is indoors M-F. Sure, I'll hit the gas for a while on a climb if I feel like it, but 90% of it is pretty conversational. There is time for the weekends to be hard later as I start racing and then when the sun comes back and I can ride outdoors during the week my weekday rides get more traditional. i.e. hard/easy Except at that point, hard becomes REALLY hard. FTP, VO2 max and above intervals.
It's all public on Training Peaks and Strava if you're interested.
Kevin
http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin]
[ In reply to ]
Spin class
Post deleted by solidasarock7
[ In reply to ]
Re: indoor cycling training [solidasarock7]
[ In reply to ]
I don't recall anyone asking for the opinion of spammers.
Re: indoor cycling training [gregf83]
[ In reply to ]
Kevin & others, do you guys target what your outdoor FTP would be and transfer that to the trainer? I find it impossible to match my outside watts with trainer rides. For instance, I will do 2x 20' outside around 315-320 watts, but on the trainer I'm right around 300 watts at a similar HR.
I did a trainer session yesterday where the main set was 6x (5' @ 325 watts, 2' @ 200 watts). I felt much more drained than doing 2x 20' @ 300 watts, and my total wattage at the end of each 1 hr session was identical - avg HR was 3 beats higher. Is there any added benefit to doing the workout with the shorter intervals?
Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023
I did a trainer session yesterday where the main set was 6x (5' @ 325 watts, 2' @ 200 watts). I felt much more drained than doing 2x 20' @ 300 watts, and my total wattage at the end of each 1 hr session was identical - avg HR was 3 beats higher. Is there any added benefit to doing the workout with the shorter intervals?
Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023
Re: indoor cycling training [natethomas]
[ In reply to ]
Your indoor HR is always going to be higher than outdoors unless you're using multiple large fans and the ambient temperature is much lower than room temp. The impact of lack of cooling is proportional to power output so it's not surprising that the higher power intervals feel tougher.
Do you do the same 6x5x2 intervals outdoors?
Do you do the same 6x5x2 intervals outdoors?
Re: indoor cycling training [gregf83]
[ In reply to ]
gregf83 wrote:
Your indoor HR is always going to be higher than outdoors unless you're using multiple large fans and the ambient temperature is much lower than room temp. The impact of lack of cooling is proportional to power output so it's not surprising that the higher power intervals feel tougher. Do you do the same 6x5x2 intervals outdoors?
I've got two large box fans, and the temp is in the low 60's in my basement. As for doing the same intervals outside, I haven't done that specific one before. When riding outside I'll generally stick to 2x 20' or on a longer ride alternate between IM and HIM pace.
Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023
Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165]
[ In reply to ]
We do 1.5 to 2 hours at a bike store (Speed Theory Vancouver) every Saturday morning, good structured stuff. Today, Zach Bell, Canadian Olympian joined us.
I love that they have 2 flat Screen TVs that list the workout, count doen at times etc.
Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike
I love that they have 2 flat Screen TVs that list the workout, count doen at times etc.
Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike
Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165]
[ In reply to ]
As has been said: make sure you have a plan for each workout. Just getting on an indoor trainer several times a week isn't going to do much.
Trainerroad plans are great to follow if you don't either have your own training plan or have a coach who gives you one.
For the boredom / distraction factor: HBO Go / hulu / Suffferfest videos (variation) / DVDs. Just make sure that you check every now and then that you are following your plan.
Matthew
Twitter: @AlphaDogCycling
Instagram: @AlphaDogCycling
Trainerroad plans are great to follow if you don't either have your own training plan or have a coach who gives you one.
For the boredom / distraction factor: HBO Go / hulu / Suffferfest videos (variation) / DVDs. Just make sure that you check every now and then that you are following your plan.
Matthew
Twitter: @AlphaDogCycling
Instagram: @AlphaDogCycling
Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin]
[ In reply to ]
nslckevin wrote:
1 hour each day. 10' warm up
20' @ Tempo
5' easy
20' @ Tempo
5' cool down and done.
During the 20' sets I pop it up a couple of gears and stand for about 10-15 seconds. Gives your butt a break and make the workout into easy 5' bite sized chunks.
If you are feeling good, ramp it up just a bit to sweet spot.
I've been doing these intervals (without a PM) and I like it a lot. I'm getting a heart rate monitor for Christmas so I'm wondering if you can tell me approximately what zones I should be in for the Tempos? My (wild) guess would be Z3 in the first 5 min. or so and upper Z4 for the remaining 15 once your HR catches up to the hard work?
-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165]
[ In reply to ]
Netflix, Hulu, DVDs, Youtube... all these are always good help for me.
And always try to do some intervals chaning intensity, your legs will feel it and will get stronger.
And always try to do some intervals chaning intensity, your legs will feel it and will get stronger.
Re: indoor cycling training [Timtek]
[ In reply to ]
Timtek wrote:
nslckevin wrote:
1 hour each day. 10' warm up
20' @ Tempo
5' easy
20' @ Tempo
5' cool down and done.
During the 20' sets I pop it up a couple of gears and stand for about 10-15 seconds. Gives your butt a break and make the workout into easy 5' bite sized chunks.
If you are feeling good, ramp it up just a bit to sweet spot.
I've been doing these intervals (without a PM) and I like it a lot. I'm getting a heart rate monitor for Christmas so I'm wondering if you can tell me approximately what zones I should be in for the Tempos? My (wild) guess would be Z3 in the first 5 min. or so and upper Z4 for the remaining 15 once your HR catches up to the hard work?
My HR during these intervals ends up being around 155 average. For a 20-40' TT my HR would average around 175 or so.
Hope that helps.
Kevin
http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin]
[ In reply to ]
nslckevin wrote:
[ It really is brainless for me. It just works out that I settle into a 50x16 @ 90-92 rpm. That cadence combined with the resistance characteristics of my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine dials in around 310-320 watts. I can pretty much close my eyes and daydream and hit that cadence and power. I normally spin more, closer to 100-105rpm on the road. I tried to hit my desired wattage in my 50x17 at the higher rpm's and that was hard. I had to concentrate at it and the RPE was higher, so I said, "screw it" and went to the larger gear and slightly lower cadence.
Re: indoor cycling training [ademerckx]
[ In reply to ]
ademerckx wrote:
nslckevin wrote:
[ It really is brainless for me. It just works out that I settle into a 50x16 @ 90-92 rpm. That cadence combined with the resistance characteristics of my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine dials in around 310-320 watts. I can pretty much close my eyes and daydream and hit that cadence and power. I normally spin more, closer to 100-105rpm on the road. I tried to hit my desired wattage in my 50x17 at the higher rpm's and that was hard. I had to concentrate at it and the RPE was higher, so I said, "screw it" and went to the larger gear and slightly lower cadence.
Yep. 50x16 is my "on" gear. Maybe the difference is from the different resistance curve for different trainers?
Kevin
http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin]
[ In reply to ]
nslckevin wrote:
ademerckx wrote:
nslckevin wrote:
[ It really is brainless for me. It just works out that I settle into a 50x16 @ 90-92 rpm. That cadence combined with the resistance characteristics of my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine dials in around 310-320 watts. I can pretty much close my eyes and daydream and hit that cadence and power. I normally spin more, closer to 100-105rpm on the road. I tried to hit my desired wattage in my 50x17 at the higher rpm's and that was hard. I had to concentrate at it and the RPE was higher, so I said, "screw it" and went to the larger gear and slightly lower cadence.
Yep. 50x16 is my "on" gear. Maybe the difference is from the different resistance curve for different trainers?
Re: indoor cycling training [ademerckx]
[ In reply to ]
ademerckx wrote:
Yep. 50x16 is my "on" gear. Maybe the difference is from the different resistance curve for different trainers?Temperature? It's in the 30's in my garage lately.
I'm using a SRM, what about you? If you're using a power tap at least part of the difference would be the drive train losses.
I'm using Q-Rings which probably bumps my power numbers up a bit.
I tighten the drum three full turns of the knob from the point of contact with the tire.
Looking at the power curve for the Kurt Kinetic it appears to indicate a power closer to mine than yours based on the speed of approximately 22.3mph.
http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php
Finally whenever you have two devices measuring something and they don't agree, my plan of action is always to take the measurement that is the most impressive. :-) Therefore mine is right. If two thermometers say 95 and 102 on a hot summer day. Boom, it's 102. Cold day skiing? 18 and 25? Boom, it's 18 degrees.
I can't believe I need to teach you guys these things... :-)
Kevin
http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin]
[ In reply to ]
nslckevin wrote:
ademerckx wrote:
Yep. 50x16 is my "on" gear. Maybe the difference is from the different resistance curve for different trainers?
Temperature? It's in the 30's in my garage lately.
I'm using a SRM, what about you? If you're using a power tap at least part of the difference would be the drive train losses.
I'm using Q-Rings which probably bumps my power numbers up a bit.
I tighten the drum three full turns of the knob from the point of contact with the tire.
Looking at the power curve for the Kurt Kinetic it appears to indicate a power closer to mine than yours based on the speed of approximately 22.3mph.
http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php
Finally whenever you have two devices measuring something and they don't agree, my plan of action is always to take the measurement that is the most impressive. :-) Therefore mine is right. If two thermometers say 95 and 102 on a hot summer day. Boom, it's 102. Cold day skiing? 18 and 25? Boom, it's 18 degrees.
I can't believe I need to teach you guys these things... :-)[/quote] Cool, OK oh wise one! - gimme a prediction. If i bang these efforts 6 times per week at 90% FT. Will I get to 300watt FT by end of March/April?(In 2008 I did a 60min ride at 300watts on KK's Christmas Cracker power meter. Despite what Kurt says I never believed those numbers neither did anyone else)
Re: indoor cycling training [nslckevin]
[ In reply to ]
Finally whenever you have two devices measuring something and they don't agree, my plan of action is always to take the measurement that is the most impressive. :-) Therefore mine is right. If two thermometers say 95 and 102 on a hot summer day. Boom, it's 102. Cold day skiing? 18 and 25? Boom, it's 18 degrees.
I can't believe I need to teach you guys these things... :-)[/quote]
I totally agree.
My rule of thumb, round down on time, and up on distance. Works for me.
Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165]
[ In reply to ]
We have great news for you!
Spivi is Social-network enhanced 3D visual system, installed on existing equipment.
Spivi Home Edition entered closed beta in October of 2012. Since then, we’ve continually added features,
content, and fixed bugs as we moved towards Open Beta.
We have decided to enter Open Beta on February 18, 2013, US time. The final beta deployment
and www.spivi.com website modification will occur then.
We want the first few months of Open Beta to set the precedent that we react quickly to feedback on the
software and add features that users want. We do not want everyone’s first experience with the software
to be that nothing changes for a month. If any unexpected problems arose or the software became very popular
in April, the support team wouldn’t be at full strength to service the needs of all users.
What to do while you’re waiting?
Get ANT+ devices! See required hardware http://blog.spivi.com/...on_required_hardware
Spivi Home Edition is powered by a strong graphical engine which provides the ability to output a crystal
clear HD video, see the PC requirements: http://blog.spivi.com/.../system-requirements
We’ve been working on Spivi Home Edition for over three years now. We’re so excited that we’re getting
close to the Open Beta release, and are really looking forward to the day we get to unleash it on the world.
Spivi is Social-network enhanced 3D visual system, installed on existing equipment.
Spivi Home Edition entered closed beta in October of 2012. Since then, we’ve continually added features,
content, and fixed bugs as we moved towards Open Beta.
We have decided to enter Open Beta on February 18, 2013, US time. The final beta deployment
and www.spivi.com website modification will occur then.
We want the first few months of Open Beta to set the precedent that we react quickly to feedback on the
software and add features that users want. We do not want everyone’s first experience with the software
to be that nothing changes for a month. If any unexpected problems arose or the software became very popular
in April, the support team wouldn’t be at full strength to service the needs of all users.
What to do while you’re waiting?
Get ANT+ devices! See required hardware http://blog.spivi.com/...on_required_hardware
Spivi Home Edition is powered by a strong graphical engine which provides the ability to output a crystal
clear HD video, see the PC requirements: http://blog.spivi.com/.../system-requirements
We’ve been working on Spivi Home Edition for over three years now. We’re so excited that we’re getting
close to the Open Beta release, and are really looking forward to the day we get to unleash it on the world.
Re: indoor cycling training [Snyder2165]
[ In reply to ]
Dredging up this old thread for a couple of reasons...
We've received some result information (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;), I know it's n=1 stuff, but you've got to admit the result is impressive.
I'm so impressed with the way Kevin interacts in this and the result thread. From answering the most basic questions to the nitty gritty tech stuff, he just happy to help anyone out. I love this place.
We've received some result information (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;), I know it's n=1 stuff, but you've got to admit the result is impressive.
I'm so impressed with the way Kevin interacts in this and the result thread. From answering the most basic questions to the nitty gritty tech stuff, he just happy to help anyone out. I love this place.
Re: indoor cycling training [beejay]
[ In reply to ]
Sufferfest all the time. They have a new one...blender. It's 1:40 of awesomeness. I've markedly improved from my Suffer sessions on the trainer. I'm a girl and I was able to stay with the fast boys this year. IWKMATTKYT.
Re: indoor cycling training [clairec2007]
[ In reply to ]
Indoor cycling is the easiest, simplest and effective way of workout at home. My wife and I both are working and have got busy schedule throughout the week therefore we don't get ample time to gear up ourselves and go out for cycling. Then we planned to start this basic exercise at home and bought an indoor cycling bike from http://www.spinning.com around 3 months back, thereafter, we daily invested 20-25 min working out at home and finally we have yield results. I burned many calories and lost some weight, my wife has lost few inches and we are going good to keep ourselves fit.
It kind of makes us feel proud.
It kind of makes us feel proud.
^^^ A little spam gave this a great thread a timely bump given the time change this weekend.
Has anyone seen a trainerroad workout that matches Kevin's plan below? I looked and didn't see one that matched.
When the time changes I go indoors M-F (and on rainy weekend days because I'm a wuss).
1 hour each day.
10' warm up
20' @ Tempo
5' easy
20' @ Tempo
5' cool down and done.
Sorry for the dumb question, I am new to actually thinking about my training in intervals term. When you say 20' @Tempo, you mean 20' at your 85% FTP (or whatever you picked for this), nonstop (+/- your 10-15 sec of standing up every once in a while)?
Yep. The 10', 5' and 5' easy sections end up at around 50-60% of FTP and the two 20' sections usually average ~85-88% of FTP. The three short breaks I take at 5', 10', and 15' to stand up are only 10-20 seconds long and the power drops down to maybe 80% and doesn't really affect the average.
The whole workout ends up averaging out to about 75% of FTP for 1 hour and burns about 1,000 KJs. It also has the added bonus of starting the day and knowing exactly how many calories I can consume that day if I want to maintain or lose weight. Can't count how many times I've come home during the summer with the idea of doing a certain ride, ate bars accordingly and then ended up doing something a lot lighter and wished I hadn't eaten so much!
It really is brainless for me. It just works out that I settle into a 50x16 @ 90-92 rpm. That cadence combined with the resistance characteristics of my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine dials in around 310-320 watts. I can pretty much close my eyes and daydream and hit that cadence and power. I normally spin more, closer to 100-105rpm on the road. I tried to hit my desired wattage in my 50x17 at the higher rpm's and that was hard. I had to concentrate at it and the RPE was higher, so I said, "screw it" and went to the larger gear and slightly lower cadence.
The important things are:
1. The workouts are physically hard enough, but not too hard.
2. They are something I can do day after day.
3. They are not something that make me dread getting on the bike (like say, 2x20' @ FTP would).
4. The workout is mentally easy. On Mt. Diablo, I'll do 40' @ Tempo or even FTP and that's not so hard mentally. 40' @ Tempo on the trainer would be harder mentally than 2x20'.
5. The 10-20 second stand up breaks at 5, 10, and 15' in each 20' interval make it much easier mentally and more bite sized. You're never more than 5' from a break.
Has anyone seen a trainerroad workout that matches Kevin's plan below? I looked and didn't see one that matched.
nslckevin wrote:
Frenchman wrote:
nslckevin wrote:
Tempo, tempo, tempo and more tempo. ~85% of FTP is where I usually land. When the time changes I go indoors M-F (and on rainy weekend days because I'm a wuss).
1 hour each day.
10' warm up
20' @ Tempo
5' easy
20' @ Tempo
5' cool down and done.
Sorry for the dumb question, I am new to actually thinking about my training in intervals term. When you say 20' @Tempo, you mean 20' at your 85% FTP (or whatever you picked for this), nonstop (+/- your 10-15 sec of standing up every once in a while)?
Yep. The 10', 5' and 5' easy sections end up at around 50-60% of FTP and the two 20' sections usually average ~85-88% of FTP. The three short breaks I take at 5', 10', and 15' to stand up are only 10-20 seconds long and the power drops down to maybe 80% and doesn't really affect the average.
The whole workout ends up averaging out to about 75% of FTP for 1 hour and burns about 1,000 KJs. It also has the added bonus of starting the day and knowing exactly how many calories I can consume that day if I want to maintain or lose weight. Can't count how many times I've come home during the summer with the idea of doing a certain ride, ate bars accordingly and then ended up doing something a lot lighter and wished I hadn't eaten so much!
It really is brainless for me. It just works out that I settle into a 50x16 @ 90-92 rpm. That cadence combined with the resistance characteristics of my Kurt Kinetic Road Machine dials in around 310-320 watts. I can pretty much close my eyes and daydream and hit that cadence and power. I normally spin more, closer to 100-105rpm on the road. I tried to hit my desired wattage in my 50x17 at the higher rpm's and that was hard. I had to concentrate at it and the RPE was higher, so I said, "screw it" and went to the larger gear and slightly lower cadence.
The important things are:
1. The workouts are physically hard enough, but not too hard.
2. They are something I can do day after day.
3. They are not something that make me dread getting on the bike (like say, 2x20' @ FTP would).
4. The workout is mentally easy. On Mt. Diablo, I'll do 40' @ Tempo or even FTP and that's not so hard mentally. 40' @ Tempo on the trainer would be harder mentally than 2x20'.
5. The 10-20 second stand up breaks at 5, 10, and 15' in each 20' interval make it much easier mentally and more bite sized. You're never more than 5' from a break.