I think the sport goes more and more to a legal drafting such that is what Mexico triathlons are basically currently. Less about the equipment and also easier on officials. Just show up and race, simpler format.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A good pair of running shoes is $100. A nice pair of running shorts will set you back $30.

It's not the cost.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

easier on officials. Just show up and race, simpler format.


Brooks,

I still don't know if we are ready for this in Canada/U.S. - but you are right. It's SO much simpler. Les McDonald was really onto something when he got rid of the no-drafting rules on the bike for the ITU racing*, Yes - it changed things. But it significantly simplified the sport of triathlon - swim/bike/run - however you like and the first across the finish-line wins!

*Actually, it was the IOC that told Les, that they had to simplify the sport.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Still waiting on all the reports of death and injuries caused by the drafting races in Mexico

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Crazy that they cut races and increase the first race of the year by $20. All other races increased by $10.
I have managed to get a couple of coworkers over the past few years to participate in this first event. They aren't as interested his year. Kinda hard to convince people to pay $75+$15+$5 processing fee to "try it out".
The math actually works though. Get two hundred fewer people to deal with and make the same $.
Whatever, folks like me will be there no matter the cost.

I do not believe for a second that people will tell their friends they are doing an Ironman in 15 years when they sign up for the local sprint triathlon. I do concur that ITU will be less of a factor than it is now. A good harbinger of that is how little, if any, impact Gwen Jorgensen's gold medal had on the sport in the U.S.

While you did not mention running in your post, I brought up the marathon because I believe the same trends that are negatively impacting tri participation are impacting running as well.

My prediction: continued fall-off of triathlon in the U.S. to a more sustainable level, but one that is better than it was in the 80s and 90s although still below the heights reached around 2010-2012. About the time we level off, the shake-out will begin in Europe where the surge has lagged the US a few years, but has now reached unsustainable levels in long course.

In Europe it is not growing, it is exploding. Local races selling out within days some even in hours, but also in the rest of the EU races go pretty fast in selling out. And not the big races, IM and Challenge per se but also the local races.
We seem to be on a growing curve for the last 4 - 5 years and the end is not in sight yet.

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Agree if there are still local sprint triathlons in the U.S. and they aren't owned by WTC. ;)

Agree with the rest of your comments. I don't see Boston and NYC marathons disappearing in 15 years.

Possibly. OTOH, the declining participation has the benefit of reducing the drafting problem.

I wasn’t suggesting it to fix the drafting problem. I was more suggesting legal drafting for simplicity . You swim you bike and you run, really no rules to fumble over.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yeah, the European growth has been pretty exciting to watch but I do believe you are at the end of the surge for long course. About 5 years ago there wasn't a single branded IM along the Baltic/North Sea and now for 2018 you have IM Sweden, IM Copenhagen, IM Hamburg, IM Estonia and IM Norway.

I'm signed up for the latter but I give it 3 years max before its gone. The predecessor Haugesund 70.3 grew for several years from inception and then the numbers started falling off quickly. I think they converted to a full to generate some new interest, but will be very surprised if they get 1500 registered (it's still in Tier 1, meaning less than 1000 athletes so far). That race may be the first domino to all in Europe. I truly hope I'm wrong, but that's my guess.

Devils advocate... I'm a hiring manager at a Fortune 50 company (low level, but I have to deal with HR anyway) and that piece of paper gets your resume in my inbox, without it, it never gets past the filter.

That in itself is why the "big name" schools continue to prevail, you need the paper to get in the door. Even with miles of experience, it is very difficult to get past the filter. By the time you can get through, you can probably make more with a boss like you that will pay for the intangibles and experience vs the degree. But that's the problem with big companies in general.

keep looking, there are a few (I know of one in Raleigh) that will have minimally organized self supported "half" events some years. It's been a bit, but they will do one if there is a need.

I honestly see this as the next grass roots push. I have a hard time paying $100 to work out for 60 mins at a local sprint. I don't even like paying for charity rides.. what am I getting besides the feel good of supporting a charity that I may or may not have any common goal with? But some random people getting together to swim a lap around a buoy at a lake, then go for a ride and follow that with a run? What happened to that? Isn't that how Kona started?

I never needed to look at resumes since i always asked my team member's to find folks they wanted to work with.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Bit of a tangent: kids being turned off by sports by overbearing soccer moms and hockey dads is one problem. The other is that there is hardly any infrastructure for older teens that don't make it into competitive teams, be it high school varsity or equivalent in clubs.

Anecdote: My son ran with a youth T&F club for a while. What I noticed was that all kids were crazy fast, and that there was no opportunity for slower kids (my son was way younger than the rest, and therefore slower, and all they could offer him was running with girls 4 years older than him that didn't talk to him. He managed to stay motivated for 6 months, and almost washed out of the sport at age 11. Way to go, coach).

I've noticed that many other sports are like that - at a certain point there's a cut-off (which varies by sport) and if you're not identified as having potential that's the end of it. You're stuck on the couch until university, when there's usually intermurals - which suffer from the reverse problem: not competitive enough, i.e. it's all about participation and let's for goodness sake not try to win the damned game. And then you graduate and all that's available then is the gym - or running.

Of course, I'm painting with a terribly broad brush here. But the general concept is there.

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

I have to ask you, how has it worked out?

Over the last two years we have hired 5 analyst (banking) onto our team. Two from Ivy League Schools, One from Carnegie Mellon, and two from state schools. Guess who has worked out the best...the two kids from state schools. The other kids are entitled and do not appreciate the opportunity they are given as they know they will be given 100 more chances just because of where their degree was printed.

Now, when you say "that piece of paper" are you talking about an Ivy League degree or just a degree in general? Because if you are just going after ivy leaguers, you are missing out big time and should probably let a few kids that don't have that through to the interview process. Our analyst program is large and we have interviewed thousands of kids, mostly from Ivy League schools...but not exclusively. The best ones have consistently come from non-ivy schools.

But some random people getting together to swim a lap around a buoy at a lake, then go for a ride and follow that with a run? What happened to that?

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You bring up Raleigh area, that happens every weekend at Falls Lake on Sunday. The Falls Lake swim group (mostly triathletes) do a swim and most of time will bike x miles and if you want to run you run. Then finish with a bbq. Some come just for the swim and bbq and others so “bricks“. It’s strictly friends, nothing “organized” (I say organized because it’s no signed waivers, no shop affiliation, etc). Very informal, just show up and do whatever you want to do.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I did my undergrad at Montana State University and am currently in graduate school at the University of Utah. I can't say I ever even considered going to anything other than a state school. The cost/benefit balance just doesn't work out. I also seriously doubt that I'm getting much worse of an education for having gone this route.

Also, just replying to this thread in general, i can say that there are people in my generation who do triathlon. I started a club at Montana State that is doing quite well, and there are a number of people i train with here at the U of U who are very involved with the sport.

It's a bit like that for adults as well. Clubs are often set up around either beginners or those who want to podium. The fast and the slow. There's not so much in the middle.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Fondly remember those training races in the late 90's at Lake Hartwell put on by Tri-Atlanta.
Was fantastic and really got me hooked on the sport.
Not sure if they still do these "workouts"

Have always continued to do stage my own "triathlons" with co-workers and friends. Some more "swim- . street-legal" than others, but who is out on a Sun morning at 7AM anyway?
Just need a group of honest people (gotten more difficult) or friends to decide on and set a course and somebody to watch the gear in the parking lot.

No noticeable decline with high-profile events in the Bay area and SoCal. Crazy participation by the one-and-done Techie Show-Offs.

You're wrong ('83 here).

First of all, I don't think anybody that starts with a new hobby counts costs. You start with a hobby because you are interested. The costs come later.

Second of all, most of the beginners come from one of the three sports, so part of the costs have allready been covered.

Thirdly, your estimates are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. You count the costs of somebody at quite a high level. Normal beginners don't need 4 pairs of shoes (which would indicate about 4000km a year, a number almost nobody runs). No beginner will need wheels of 2000dollar/euro, nor a bike of 4000dollar. A coach and that much food is ridiculous for a first year triathlete.

I started with triathlon 2-3 years ago. I owned a decent racebike and 1 pair of running shoes. In the first year I did a half and just 'needed/wanted' a tri-bike, wetsuit, nice helmet and better/new shoes. The bike I bought secondhanded without wheels (1250 euro), the wetsuit new (350 euro) and a helmet (175 euro). The helmet and bike where optional, since I allready owned those (just not tri-specific). The wetsuit I needed (since in NL it's often too cold to swim open water without wetsuit, plus I need to float) :)

That being said, of course I spend waaaaaaayyyyyy more. I bought a disc wheel, garmin(s), trainer more wheels, MTB, more shoes, more kit, etc. But that was all optional and fun.

So, let me help you:

Swim
Pool Membership, buy loose tickets: 4 euro each time you swim indoor. Open water is free, € 30
Masters Membership, find somebody that teaches you the basics, use slowtwitch and youtube
Goggles, € 30 (mine already lasts 2 years)
Speedos, € 30
Wetsuit, € 350,00

Bike
Bike, second hand, including wheels, € 2.000,00
Race wheels, see above, or rent
Shoes € 100,00
Power Meter, not needed when entering the sport
Trainer, not needed when entering the sport (or buy secondhand for € 250,00)
Training Platform, not needed
Clothing € 350,00, for comfort buy a trisuit and some nice bibshorts/running shorts.

Run
Training Shoes € 125,00
Racing flats, not really need, but you could use them for fast training as well, € 125,00
Training clothing, already covered above

Misc.
USAT License, not sure about this one, but will write down € 50,00
Coach, hahaha
Team, not needed
Nutrition, € 100,00 will get you enough food for some training and 2 races
GPS watch, € 150,00 for a secondhand garmin forerunner, € 200,00 for a used 920xt


Total = € 3.440,00 (excluding truckerhat) but if one allready owns a bike € 2.000,00 can be saved. Tribike is nice for longer distances, but not a real 'must have' for one that is starting with 1/8 of 1/4 distances.

As an American who has lived the past nearly 20 years in Europe (last 10 in Italy) and has just moved to the greater NYC area in August...

Triathlon has been booming in Italy and in general Europe. At least in Italy, race fees are more modest (and yet still have increased by 50% since 2007). A half ironman will set you back less than 100euros booked in advance and 130 last minute. Also, given population density of a smaller continent, many many races are local. Ie I did all my half ironman races within 2 hours of Milan.

Psychologically and made also in reality, that meant that I was comfortable signing up for a race and should anything get in the way of it (injury, work, family commitments) too bad I didn't do it and was out of pocket for 100 Euros.

In the states, the prices seem to be 2.5x in Italy. I understand that NY is MUCH more expensive then Italy and I also understand that the US is more of a litigious society which translates into substantially higher RD insurance costs. But add the cost and the additional complexity/hassle of distance, and it is a turn off (this is coming from someone who absolutely loves / is passionate about triathlon).

I am too new to understand who these factors affect newbie participation... But if I extrapolate how this newbies based upon how it affects me (as aforementioned totally passionate about triathlon), I can see this posing a non insignificant barrier to entry.

Hope this is somewhat helpful

Yep, I have no idea what I was talking about or my experience in hiring for 20 years.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

With half Ironman I think you mean the 70.3 distance, not the IM branded races. Did 70.3 IM Italia last year, which was € 285,00 if I remember corectly. It is true that smaller local races seem to be cheaper than their US counterparts...

Yes, 70.3 mile / 113km distance. Not WTC branded events