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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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ESPN and colleges are in talks to broadcast it and start giving scholarships for it. eSports is really the next big thing in "sports".

Which is funny because the eSports leagues want no part of the NCAA "amateurism" rules....these people make bank on madden and other game "tournaments" each year, they have basically laughed in the face of presidents telling them they need to join together and give up making money to play a "game".

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Dec 18, 17 8:30
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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https://nypost.com/2017/07/08/were-losing-a-whole-generation-of-young-men-to-video-games/
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [georged] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you think running is down?


My pet theory on this is related to socio-economics.

Running, and triathlon and cycling pull heavily from the upper-middle class. Survey participants at , running cycling and triathlon races and events and the average income is usually over $100,000. Mots recent data from USAT pegged the average for their members at $129,000, and I've seen IRONMAN demographic information that it's $150,000 for those doing IM races.

The population of those making this kind of money or in this upper-middle class group is not growing in North America. In fact, it may be shrinking.

So, in any given population you'll reach a natural maximum number of people that will get involved in something - we may be at that max number for running cycling and triathlon.

That's why the millennials are key in all this, but the news on them in this thread, and what they are into, is NOT encouraging.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Dec 18, 17 9:10
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
https://nypost.com/2017/07/08/were-losing-a-whole-generation-of-young-men-to-video-games/

Wow, that article was terrible.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone know if obstacle course (Spartan/Tough Mudder) participation is still increasing? For a while I kept seeing articles saying how this was the new marathon for millennials. Gives more of a "I had a crazy experience that led to a great selfie" environment than traditional endurance races.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [burkenfurter] [ In reply to ]
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I dont know if obstacle races declined but I think I remember the color/rush "runs" had peaked a few years ago....those are pretty much made for "fun" 5k environments.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [burkenfurter] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone know if obstacle course (Spartan/Tough Mudder) participation is still increasing?

It's down significantly. But for a number of years it was in unsustainable growth territory. The smart-ones in the events side of things, knew this at the time, and made appropriate plans for the inevitable down-turn in numbers.






Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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That's why the millennials are key in all this, but the news on them in this thread, and what they are into, is NOT encouraging.

-------------

Read your long paragraph opening sentence and you'll kinda see why it's more triathlon now is having some egg on it's own face, and scrambling to fix it.

eta: we became a sport for almost exclusively wealthy people.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Dec 18, 17 9:07
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
We, us parents, have taken a WRONG approach to sports with our kids and youth, making it be all ultra-serious, by the time they are 10 years old. Net result - those millennials - by the time they are in their late teens - are not setting records on sports fields, there is a record amount of INACTIVITY among them!

I'd agree with this. I was sort of forced in playing golf competitively when I was younger. I played 18-20 tournaments a year not counting high school tournaments and practiced before and after school and almost all day during the weekends from the time I was ten until the time I graduated from college. I took a run at playing professionally for a year but, at that point, I was so burnt out that I honestly dreaded picking up a club or even seeing a golf course. Now I haven't touched a club in close to a decade. About six of the guys I played with in junior/college golf now play professionally (not the ones anyone would have guessed either) and the other fifty or so that I've kept up with or crossed paths with are in the same boat as me.

... you hear similar stories about baseball, football, etc. IMO, I think it's very rare that a kid takes something... anything... seriously at a young age and carries that into adulthood. I think it's far more common that they take something seriously and then end up resenting it. Kids should be allowed and encouraged to be kids. That's just my $0.02.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
My pet theory on this is related to socio-economics.

Running, and triathlon and cycling pull heavily from the upper-middle class.
The population of those making this kind of money or in this upper-middle class group is not growing in North America. In fact, it may be shrinking.

That's why the millennials are key in all this, but the news on them in this thread, and what they are into, is NOT encouraging.

the missing link here is, millennials have no money and not much hope of ever getting any - high expense sports like tri aren't possible for them.

Lower wages, student debt, jobs without benefits, and poverty account for 99% of what rich old people find strange about millennials.

My oldest boy is a millennial, he is smart, ambitious and works way harder than I ever had to as a teenager or young man. His friends are all like him, they have been working hard and long hours since 9th grade to try and qualify in the college lottery, now working long and hard hours at college and summer jobs to try to qualify for the postgrad lottery that is what college used to be. I can no longer afford my house in Denver so he has no hope of being able to buy a house here. My nieces and nephews in Australia cannot ever hope to afford houses in Perth, except by inheritance. They are engineers, Phd in microbiology, etc etc - worked hard, played by the rules, got shafted.

Sunday at church, was talking to a new engineer, had to work a year as an unpaid intern before he found a job. He's living at home now while paying off student debt. This is an engineer, supposedly one of the STEM winners in the new economy.

My younger boy is not quite a millennial, but he is a committed socialist, as he can quite easily see that capitalism has failed.
"What’s their experience been with capitalism? They have had two recessions, one really bad one. They have a mountain of student-loan debt. They’ve got really high health-care costs, and their job prospects are mediocre at best. So that’s capitalism for you.”
It's very difficult to argue him out of this, since he is basically right. We don't have a millennial problem, we have a failed economy problem..

"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
That's why the millennials are key in all this, but the news on them in this thread, and what they are into, is NOT encouraging.

-------------

Read your long paragraph opening sentence and you'll kinda see why it's more triathlon now is having some egg on it's own face, and scrambling to fix it.

eta: we became a sport for almost exclusively wealthy people.

And those wealthy people are starting to not see the cost/benefit of racing. I could easily pay for racing 10-15 Tris a year. But when you look st the cost of an sprint where I am hovering around $85-100, I start being hard pressed to want to do that.

Went they were 40-50, for an hour issue of racing it seems like a good deal. Double that, not so much for a lot of people.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Took the words out of my eMouth!! :))))

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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I dont blame parents, I rather think they are suckers. Suckers in believing that little johnnie has to play "fall ball" baseball year round at age 10 or else he'll fall developmentally behind. I remember the first "fall ball" league in NC when I was 13 (circa 1995). It was the 1st ever league to play organizational baseball outside the "designated" time of a spring/summer sport. I was playing JV football and was an outstanding all star level infielder in baseball. I remember the day I ran home "mom mom, I can now play baseball in the fall"....her response- "Nope, you want to play sports in the fall- play football or run cross country. Baseball is a spring/summer sport and you need a break from it." I was the only one of 2 who was on the all star baseball team that didn't play fall ball.

I coach a youth tri team every summer ages 7-12 and on the 1st day of practice, I repeat this line every single year...."your kids are not triathletes, they dont need to be triathletes, they are athletes learning great development skills that will translate to many sports....they need to play football in the fall, basketball in the spring, baseball/lacrosse/band/dance anything that allows them to be active at this age". I hate the word specialization for someone younger than age 14/15.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Dec 18, 17 9:39
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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doug in co wrote:
Fleck wrote:

My pet theory on this is related to socio-economics.

Running, and triathlon and cycling pull heavily from the upper-middle class.
The population of those making this kind of money or in this upper-middle class group is not growing in North America. In fact, it may be shrinking.

That's why the millennials are key in all this, but the news on them in this thread, and what they are into, is NOT encouraging.


the missing link here is, millennials have no money and not much hope of ever getting any - high expense sports like tri aren't possible for them.

Lower wages, student debt, jobs without benefits, and poverty account for 99% of what rich old people find strange about millennials.

My oldest boy is a millennial, he is smart, ambitious and works way harder than I ever had to as a teenager or young man. His friends are all like him, they have been working hard and long hours since 9th grade to try and qualify in the college lottery, now working long and hard hours at college and summer jobs to try to qualify for the postgrad lottery that is what college used to be. I can no longer afford my house in Denver so he has no hope of being able to buy a house here. My nieces and nephews in Australia cannot ever hope to afford houses in Perth, except by inheritance. They are engineers, Phd in microbiology, etc etc - worked hard, played by the rules, got shafted.

Sunday at church, was talking to a new engineer, had to work a year as an unpaid intern before he found a job. He's living at home now while paying off student debt. This is an engineer, supposedly one of the STEM winners in the new economy.

My younger boy is not quite a millennial, but he is a committed socialist, as he can quite easily see that capitalism has failed.
"What’s their experience been with capitalism? They have had two recessions, one really bad one. They have a mountain of student-loan debt. They’ve got really high health-care costs, and their job prospects are mediocre at best. So that’s capitalism for you.”
It's very difficult to argue him out of this, since he is basically right. We don't have a millennial problem, we have a failed economy problem..

Personally, I think it is a failed parent issue! Who in the world would support, encourage, etc a kid to go off to college and pay the crazy prices some are paying? One can get a college education without falling into the trap but it has to be the best school that has been marketed correctly. But we all know I did everything wrong with my kids. (They both got out of college with zero debt)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if Crossfit has taken away any triathletes. The same minded people might be interested in crossfit as opposed to TRI. Plus, you add to the fact the recent research says running ( marathons etc) and long distance tri are really bad for your health, its no wonder the level or participation is down. People motivated by getting in good health won't be running or doing tri now they know its really not very healthy.

Millenials are going to be the downfall of our society. soft, weak minded, poor work ethic, entitled snowflakes. Heaven help us all!!
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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Millenials are going to be the downfall of our society. soft, weak minded, poor work ethic, entitled snowflakes. Heaven help us all!!

----------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpE1Pa8vvI


ETA: For those at work or can't click on link....it's a funny parody song about millennials; making fun of them thinking they'll be millionaires but have no job, sitting at coffee shop with their man bun, etc, laughing "gotta love millennials"....."In a couple of years we'll have to pass the torch...in a couple of years our next president will be............oh nooooo a.....MILLENIAL"....fades to black.



Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Dec 18, 17 9:57
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Millenials are going to be the downfall of our society. soft, weak minded, poor work ethic, entitled snowflakes. Heaven help us all!!

----------------------------







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpE1Pa8vvI





Love it

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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Too much drivel in here to respond to everything, other than to note that 1) the U.S. did not become a socialist country after the Great Depression; and 2) I didn't have the money or the time to do triathlon when I was in my 20s.

I have 4 kids with a range from 19-37, but two of my sons are 27 and 30. Neither have any college debt, and both are working a side job while they grow their own business. Both have done triathlon (one up to and including Ironman and the other a couple of 70.3s). Their biggest issue with triathlon is the same I had in my 20s/30s ... no time for multisport while working on their career...so both are back to strictly running.

As to house prices in Denver; how about telling me how many people lived there in 1977 and how many live there in 2017. I know what the front range looked like back then and what the I-25 corridor is like now. And after you identify that massive population increase, tell me how much additional land was created in those 40 years. Single family home prices will rise commensurately with the demand for land and it's not going to change regardless of whether the economy is structured under capitalism or socialism.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Sad thing is these people have convinced themselves the E-gaming stuff is a real sport. Skill, teamwork, competition, BS....

Its kids sitting in their pajamas with a headset on in a dark room all day. WTH!!!

And I don't care if they make tons of money doing it...stupid people make tons of money every day doing stupid things.

E-games are not sports anymore than Darts or billiards are sports.

Rant Over....Get off My lawn.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:

Personally, I think it is a failed parent issue! Who in the world would support, encourage, etc a kid to go off to college and pay the crazy prices some are paying? One can get a college education without falling into the trap but it has to be the best school that has been marketed correctly.

Mine for one. Yeah, that ivy league education isn't worth anything is it?
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


Personally, I think it is a failed parent issue! Who in the world would support, encourage, etc a kid to go off to college and pay the crazy prices some are paying? One can get a college education without falling into the trap but it has to be the best school that has been marketed correctly.


Mine for one. Yeah, that ivy league education isn't worth anything is it?

Yep, nothing that extra money can be proved to increase wages. Bottom line, some of the best folks I hired either had no college degrees, and had the wrong ones from the wrong schools. But do did they have the right genetics, which was way way more important. I never looked at hiring folks because of the college they went to. I looked at things like did they work while going to school. And if I knew they had lots of debt, well, ...

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Yep, nothing that extra money can be proved to increase wages ...

Not true

h2ofun wrote:
Bottom line, some of the best folks I hired either had no college degrees, and had the wrong ones from the wrong schools.

I have no doubt. Plenty of smart,qualified people out there who did not attend college or didn't attend the top colleges.

h2ofun wrote:
I never looked at hiring folks because of the college they went to. I looked at things like did they work while going to school. And if I knew they had lots of debt, well, ...

I won't go as far as to say you are alone in that regard, but as shocking as it may sound to you, the college/university that you attend plays a major factor in the job(s) you are able to obtain after graduating--and for the rest of your life. Since I have experienced that hiring preference first-hand, it is something that I plan to emphasize for my children.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
One high ranking industry exec, from one of the leading brands in tri/bike told me recently that, people are simply not replacing and buying new stuff -particularly the big-ticket items like bikes, as frequently as they used to because, they really don't need to - the quality of the mid to high-end stuff is so good.


I concur with the above. I have a 6 year old top-line road bike with full Dura-Ace on it, and it's working/riding amazing. I ride a moderate amount - I always ask myself - do I need something new?
What you see on the bike side of things is the brands pushing "new" categories, like Gravel, or CX, or variations on a theme like disk-brakes, to eek out a few more sales.



Me:

6 year old TT bike. 10 speed. Replacing it with a new "super bike" would save me... 10 watts? For $5000+? No thanks.
5 year old aero road bike. Same thing but upgraded to D/A 11 speed when I got a deal in the classifieds here.
Haven't seen any new tech that makes me want to buy a new frame.

The only thing I bothered upgrading was my 2x, canti brakes CX bike to a 1x, hydraulic disc. Huge difference there.

Perhaps this is why road manufacturers are trying to push discs.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
That's why the millennials are key in all this, but the news on them in this thread, and what they are into, is NOT encouraging.

-------------

Read your long paragraph opening sentence and you'll kinda see why it's more triathlon now is having some egg on it's own face, and scrambling to fix it.

eta: we became a sport for almost exclusively wealthy people.


And those wealthy people are starting to not see the cost/benefit of racing. I could easily pay for racing 10-15 Tris a year. But when you look st the cost of an sprint where I am hovering around $85-100, I start being hard pressed to want to do that.

Went they were 40-50, for an hour issue of racing it seems like a good deal. Double that, not so much for a lot of people.

^^^^^ I think this is the answer. I think free and almost free events are still seeing growth. We have a free run club in town that can get hundreds of people to show up for a mid-week evening run.

If you can figure out how to promote and offer a reasonably priced race people are happy to participate. But at least near me there is a limited number of people willing to pay $100 for a sprint triathlon.
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Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
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Getting back on topic our race was up last year and trending higher (earlier sell-out) this year. I find Triathlon went to far in the "experience/finisher" sector to try and reel in more participants.
We like to offer a race over an event. It is a race for everyone from front to back. We have low(ish) fees, prize money but more importantly focus on the event itself.

Our racks our reserved. First 20 spots are ranked by ability then remaining spots are by age from youngest to oldest so age groups are clumped together. Transition is fair for everyone. Everyone has a shot at prize money. #7 in ITU this year won our race in 2015. She was racing an IM Pro and some top level age groupers as well as everyone else in the field. All got the same treatment.
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