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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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It's a tubular tire. I run dugasts rhinos at 20 psi over roots and all sorts of hard things in cyclocross and haven't gotten a pinch flat. I can't even imagine the possibility of a pinch flat on a road tubie pumped up to 120psi.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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See Vince's reply above. I am not being overzealous. You need to have the wheel built on a different hub to get it fit the Transition. I would think I could be forgiven for not knowing there is a special hub required for certain frames.

well, since you were wrong about the brake issue, I just figured you were wrong about this, too! I didn't actually realize there was a hub issue, since the new S9 I used was laced to a PT hub. There's no issue with the rim and clearance.[/reply]
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [roady] [ In reply to ]
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See Vince's reply above. I am not being overzealous. You need to have the wheel built on a different hub to get it fit the Transition. I would think I could be forgiven for not knowing there is a special hub required for certain frames.

well, since you were wrong about the brake issue, I just figured you were wrong about this, too! I didn't actually realize there was a hub issue, since the new S9 I used was laced to a PT hub. There's no issue with the rim and clearance.
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Fair enough. I am getting further clarification on the exact particulars of "cannot" use. I do my best to be objective, and I have a very good relationship - that I do not make a secret of - with Zipp. If there is some way in which they misspoke to me or I misinterpreted a conversation with them, I will obviously correct that. Especially with regards to not fitting certain brakes, it would be foolish to say something that could so easily be proven false - i.e., as you said, it fits your brakes - so I will get clarification.


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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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It's also worth noting that VeloNews had a production prototype of the new 808 Firecrest on hand...


Would that be a tubular 808 Firecrest, or a CC 808 Firecrest? I only ask since there seems to be some confusion about the 2 individual features ;-)


For this particular test, it was a tubular 808 Firecrest that was made available, since that was the first one made, as it needed to be made available sooner since that is what was ridden in the TdF by Saxo and Astana.

Damned pros driving which products are produced first again....arghhh ;-)

So...let me get this straight what you're saying about this VN test...apparently the Stinger 9 is some special version that nobody has or can buy, but they refused to test the Firecrest 808 that Zipp gave them because it's not available yet?

Somebody at VN (or Hed) has some 'splainin' to do! What Stinger 9 was it that they tested?



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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We say a 23mm tire for increased impact resistance. The 22mm and lower tires could ..... could ..... be more prone to pinch flats because of the C2 rim causes the tire to spread wider and the edges of the rim will hit the tire and pinch it. The 23mm tire will give the tire enough room to stop that possibility of pinch flatting

But, does running a tire narrower than 23 void the warranty as Jordan wrote above?



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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I believe it says as much on their website. I still run bonty anyway. It's a tt wheel not a choice I'd use for crits.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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But, does running a tire narrower than 23 void the warranty as Jordan wrote above?

Yes.
http://www.hedcycling.com/wheels/stinger9.asp
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Stinger wheels are designed for 23mm tires. Aerodynamically this is the optimum width. The Hed C2 tire well is most impact resistant with 23mm or larger tires. We do not recommend narrower tires, using a tire less than 23mm will void the warranty.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Puppet] [ In reply to ]
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But, does running a tire narrower than 23 void the warranty as Jordan wrote above?


Yes.
http://www.hedcycling.com/wheels/stinger9.asp
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Stinger wheels are designed for 23mm tires. Aerodynamically this is the optimum width. The Hed C2 tire well is most impact resistant with 23mm or larger tires. We do not recommend narrower tires, using a tire less than 23mm will void the warranty.

I guess that means that VN tested the wheel in a configuration that the manufacturer says voids the warranty...what's up with that?



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Although the Stinger 90 will be a little deeper than the 808. The fact that it is faster will help in producing lower yaws, in addition the airflow stays attached to a higher yaw. The combination of the 2 could produce a better handling wheel than the 808. Isn't it when the air stalls that we start the violent turbulence which creates poor handling? If the air never stalls then handling should be more than manageable. Competition is good, it helps us get better innovation. With that being said I would also like to know what Stinger 9 was tested. And to my knowledge the 2009 and 2010 stinger are the same except that one uses a 12K weave for the fairing (2009) versus a unidirectional layup (2010). The 2010 fairing is thus therefore lighter. I am rather frustrated though that you can never find this information without directly talking to someone at HED.

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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [electusunus] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Just want to further correct some misinformation on this thread - I have used a stinger 9 without a problem on SRAM Force, Zero Gravity, and Ultegra 6700 brakes. You really have to open up the calipers, but it works just fine.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I dont know where the confusion came from, sorry if I didnt clarify myself on my post.

The Stinger 9 used in the VN test is the exact same wheel that customers can buy if they ordered one today. There isnt anything special or secret about the Stinger used in the VN tests. The difference between the 09 and the 10 Stinger is the weave. That resulted in some weight savings but the biggest benefit was the increase in stiffness. The 10 Stinger is stiffer than the 09 Stinger.

The 2010 wheel was used in the test.


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
Last edited by: Vince@HED: Jul 29, 10 14:45
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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no wonder you had to make it stiffer.


Last edited by: SeasonsChange: Jul 29, 10 14:49
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent.
More dirt thrown at Hed Wheels by an athlete sponsored by a competing brand.
Well, of course the NEW Zipp wheels will be better. According to Zipp, that is.
More importantly, for my purposes, Hed Stinger 9s are also $800 cheaper.
Don't you think you have a bit of a bias problem here?
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [SurfnRide] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, that is a Zipp wheel. Its had to see but in that picture there are black carbon end caps. We dont use carbon end caps


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HED. Cycling - Twitter @hedcycling - HED Wheel Selector iPhone App
Last edited by: Vince@HED: Jul 29, 10 15:02
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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yep, cav runs zipps.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [liquidsystm] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, lol....quite the picture posting fail right there!


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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, that is a Zipp wheel.

Based on what...the hub? That just proves that the hub is a Zipp hub.

What about this pic of the rim (the broken one being held up in the foreground)? Does that look like a Zipp or a Hed rim? It doesn't look dimpled...



I thought I read somewhere that Highroad builds their own wheels, mixing and matching rims and hubs...



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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I have also heard that. Also hear cav run a stinger 6 up front and a zipp in the rear. Best combo of stiffness and aero for him. But I don't think it's HED's fault that the guy rode the end of that race like an ass.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar you came out firing with a bunch of claims about the HED Stinger 9 that are may be misleading and or simply incorrect and now are backtracking and seeking clarification.

Perhaps seek clarification first before trying to publicly turn people away from buying from the biggest competitor of your sponsor.

You look a little foolish and this has been a trend of late - competitor bashing.

You keep claiming you are trying to be objective, well you need to try a little harder. It's not like you can't contact HED if there is anything you are unsure of and I certainly wouldn't think seeking clarification from your mates from Zipp about a competitors wheels qualifies for much.

However, I do believe HED can do a lot better in providing information as to their tests, tyres tested, compatibility etc... They are certainly not off the hook in this regard, it is really hard to tell a lot about their wheels, especially as most people by race wheels by ordering them without seeing them.

So now that we've gottten past that.

It seems the upshot of this particular test is that the HED Stinger 9 is an aerodynamically superior wheel then the Zipp 808 as tested by VN. Does anyone know how the results compare to the charts on the HED website.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [SeasonsChange] [ In reply to ]
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it looks like a Zipp front wheel based on the way the shade of carbon alternates around the wheel..


Last edited by: gibson00: Jul 29, 10 15:45
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [The Real Animal] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar you came out firing with a bunch of claims about the HED Stinger 9 that are may be misleading and or simply incorrect and now are backtracking and seeking clarification.

I would say it would be much more fair to edit his post with clarification, but its up to him.

It is funny the way when Zipp wheels don't fit frames, it's the frames fault. When a Hed doesn't fit wheels, it's just a sign of their inferiority.

Zipp may have better hubs and lighter wheels but a lot of times people posting on their behalf or their posts themselves come off as though they are trying to overcompensate or something.

One other interesting note is that Vince at Hed chimes in at the forum for a variety of reasons, especially as of late to chat about the tour. The only time you see Josh Poertner or Waldo pop in to a forum is when their guns are blazing about their products.
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I see this has turned into a HED and Zipp debate but I was wondering if I can get some understanding about what the numbers are saying about the Easton EC90TT wheel set. I don't really understand all the talk about yaw and wind angle so if somebody could explain it to as if I were a 5 year old, also are those numbers really BIG differences or would a MOPer tell much difference across the board?
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [Vince@HED] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, that is a Zipp wheel. Its had to see but in that picture there are black carbon end caps. We dont use carbon end caps


I'd lay money that's a Stinger 6 rim. I've seen other pictures of his bike up close, and he was clearly using a Stinger 6 front.

That said, whatever rim it is, I'd say that's pretty amazing. I think a conventional wheel would have fared much worse in that sort of situation. I'd be taking credit for that rim if I were you! I can't believe that rim didn't shatter.
Last edited by: roady: Jul 29, 10 15:43
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Re: Velonews aero wheel test... Stinger 9 is the best [roady] [ In reply to ]
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Agree with you about how the wheel held up, impressive. But positive it is a Zipp 404 rim based on the photo I posted above. The carbon layup is clearly a Zipp.
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