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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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I still have no idea which competitions she must discontinue use. Its not published anywhere.

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any competition that is *sanctioned* by the national government bodies that are supported by and/or support USADA. Which I'm going to guess are likely almost any swim meet.

For triathlon, I'd guess it's 85% sanctioned events vs non-sanctioned events, hell it may even be larger than that. For example, here in NC there are something like 4-5 race series, and I can't think of any race they put on that isn't sanctioned by USAT.


I'm not going to disagree with what you said about the process. What I"m going to say is that this isn't a process for the "quick answer". So most of the time, I don't think it's confusing as more just people not wanting to actually go through the complex process of getting it done. You better be ready to give up EVERYTHING within medical documentations, etc. And just because your friendly family doc prescribes it doesn't really matter to WADA. Proving that that med is the last resort and only thing that can be taken is what will allow them to give the TUE.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 2, 18 20:26
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Gonefishin5555 wrote:
"In competition" is not the physical track location or the swimming pool. it refers to a period of time before, during and after the competition. I think it starts the day before and ends the day after. Actually I need to look up the rule for that. We did get advice on the half life of the drug and actually thinking about now I wish we had the TUE.

Correct, it's a time period. I did look it up, and it's determined by the event organizer, but it usually 12 hours before the start of competition to the end.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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mungub50 wrote:
It’s easy to deflect attention to the amateur level when there is an obvious issue at the top.

That is hard to say. Have there been any big names in triathlon that have tested positive? Why not? In this case the individual likely got greedy. I have no idea how long it takes to get the EPO out of your system, but it would seem this individual was either not very careful or was just so positive he would never be tested and rolled the dice and didn't care. Is the reason more big names don't test positive because they are more careful and choose to exploit the legal grey area of TUEs? Or is there another reason? The idea of whereabouts and ooc tests in these athletes is to make it harder to dope. Ideally a professional is under the assumption that they may be tested in-competition so they are likely to show up without anything they used in their system but may be more likely ooc and the ideal of ooc tests is to catch those. I don't have these answers, but in my personal opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if doping is a bigger problem in the amateur ranks, even if it is just an education issue, versus what happens in the pro ranks. Maybe I am naive but that is my opinion.


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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [drseamus] [ In reply to ]
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drseamus wrote:
I don't know one of Nick's main training partners well (who left Patriot a while ago, but who you are maybe referring to) but from all accounts he's a stand up guy who would be unlikely to dope.

This is the thing, it is really hard to judge someone's character like this. Fwiw, I met Mark Fretta once and always heard really positive things about him and how great of a guy he was. I too was shocked when he was popped for EPO many moons ago.


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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [Gtjojo189] [ In reply to ]
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Gtjojo189 wrote:
I saw him on the bike course and wouldn't describe his riding as drafting. I passed him around mile 40 solo and then around mile 55 he repassed me and was solo. I know there were 4 guys I caught around mile 65 that were blatantly drafting and not letting anyone go when they passed them. If you saw him after mile 55 he was probably caught up in their shenanigans. He was crushing the run though.

If they held a virtual roll down and it made it to me, I'd definitely go.

While doping on EPO....

Looking at the guys previous results, he shows zero potential to run a 3:03 (ether in a half or full).

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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
mungub50 wrote:
It’s easy to deflect attention to the amateur level when there is an obvious issue at the top.

Is the reason more big names don't test positive because they are more careful and choose to exploit the legal grey area of TUEs?

I wouldn't be surprised if doping is a bigger problem in the amateur ranks, even if it is just an education issue, versus what happens in the pro ranks. Maybe I am naive but that is my opinion.

Most top pros/teams won't go near EPO/HGH etc but will use the grey areas of TUEs and other yet to be banned supplements: Team Sky being a good example. Too much to lose being caught using the same stuff as Armstrong et al but will argue til the cows come home on asthma treatments etc.

For your amateurs it's too easy to spend a relatively little amount of money and get your PED of choice from China through the letterbox: near instant results compared to years of training and hard graft.

If someone has the desire (to win, brag on social media, start a coaching business, credibility in a circle of people etc) it's so easy to cheat nowadays with PEDs.

I'd agree there's probably more top AGers than pros on the sauce.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [moonmonkey02] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if you've watched that Icarus documentary or not, and from what I've read/watched elsewhere anyone doing EPO now knows that micro dosing is where it's at. In fact, for someone to get pinged taking EPO now they must be an idiot with how they're taking it.

I'm sure EPO would still be a drug of choice, along with AICAR and GW1516. The other stuff with TUE's etc is only really marginal gain type stuff. Anyone looking for a step change will definitely still be looking to the 'high octane' type treatments.

ETA: you can also throw anabolics in with the EPO, AICAR and GW1516 as well for the recovery it provides
Last edited by: rock: Apr 3, 18 2:50
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [sammydog1] [ In reply to ]
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sammydog1 wrote:
Shouldn’t we all be looking at ourselves also. We’re the ones that have made this fertile ground for dopers. Guys like this and a lot of the other busted athletes seem to all gravitate to coaching. They’re using their doped up results to draw clients. We fall for it every time. Wow!’ Look how fast he is. I’m sure he must know what he doing with those results. Then said doper has to keep improving those results to sustain his/her business and continue stroke their own ego. And if this guy was doped to the gills, what’s it say about the others he’s racing against?

Please continue......

blog
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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The girlfriend claims she has clean results and says there’s a back story for him. What possible backstory he told her could she believe enough to be defiant and leave her IG posts with the doper boyfriend up? Just curious if she’s not a gullible dumbass but a woman of (some more) integrity.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [rock] [ In reply to ]
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rock wrote:
Not sure if you've watched that Icarus documentary or not, and from what I've read/watched elsewhere anyone doing EPO now knows that micro dosing is where it's at. In fact, for someone to get pinged taking EPO now they must be an idiot with how they're taking it.

I'm sure EPO would still be a drug of choice, along with AICAR and GW1516. The other stuff with TUE's etc is only really marginal gain type stuff. Anyone looking for a step change will definitely still be looking to the 'high octane' type treatments.

ETA: you can also throw anabolics in with the EPO, AICAR and GW1516 as well for the recovery it provides

Icarus is the latest documentary: a couple of years ago a guy from the BBC did a documentary, the same micro-dosing with EPO, and he was a cyclist and got the same results.

If you're that way inclined all the info is out there only a few clicks away.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [moonmonkey02] [ In reply to ]
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moonmonkey02 wrote:
rock wrote:
Not sure if you've watched that Icarus documentary or not, and from what I've read/watched elsewhere anyone doing EPO now knows that micro dosing is where it's at. In fact, for someone to get pinged taking EPO now they must be an idiot with how they're taking it.

I'm sure EPO would still be a drug of choice, along with AICAR and GW1516. The other stuff with TUE's etc is only really marginal gain type stuff. Anyone looking for a step change will definitely still be looking to the 'high octane' type treatments.

ETA: you can also throw anabolics in with the EPO, AICAR and GW1516 as well for the recovery it provides


Icarus is the latest documentary: a couple of years ago a guy from the BBC did a documentary, the same micro-dosing with EPO, and he was a cyclist and got the same results.

If you're that way inclined all the info is out there only a few clicks away.


Yes I know, what I was saying in reply to the previous poster was that it is very likely that pro/elite athletes are still very much using EPO as well as some other select drugs.

No I'm not that way inclined, if you saw my race results there's nothing overly impressive, nor any dramatic increase in performance. I just enjoy trying to understand physiology and so do a lot of reading in that area

ETA: that should read some pro/elite athletes, not all. Out of respect to those that frequent this forum and race/train clean
Last edited by: rock: Apr 3, 18 3:03
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:

This is the thing, it is really hard to judge someone's character like this. Fwiw, I met Mark Fretta once and always heard really positive things about him and how great of a guy he was. I too was shocked when he was popped for EPO many moons ago.

That's totally true. While it certainly wasn't the case for everyone, Nick was always really nice to me. He did a bike fit for me that saved my IMLP that year.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [drseamus] [ In reply to ]
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drseamus wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:


This is the thing, it is really hard to judge someone's character like this. Fwiw, I met Mark Fretta once and always heard really positive things about him and how great of a guy he was. I too was shocked when he was popped for EPO many moons ago.


That's totally true. While it certainly wasn't the case for everyone, Nick was always really nice to me. He did a bike fit for me that saved my IMLP that year.

This makes me sad to hear... and wonder why someone so nice would do something so stupid.

I didn't know Nick but felt a connection as a fellow veteran and small business owner.

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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
sammydog1 wrote:
Shouldn’t we all be looking at ourselves also. We’re the ones that have made this fertile ground for dopers. Guys like this and a lot of the other busted athletes seem to all gravitate to coaching. They’re using their doped up results to draw clients. We fall for it every time. Wow!’ Look how fast he is. I’m sure he must know what he doing with those results. Then said doper has to keep improving those results to sustain his/her business and continue stroke their own ego. And if this guy was doped to the gills, what’s it say about the others he’s racing against?


Please continue......


Haha this is absurd. "I can't go fast, so everyone that does must be doping"


KaiserChief wrote:
The girlfriend claims she has clean results and says there’s a back story for him. What possible backstory he told her could she believe enough to be defiant and leave her IG posts with the doper boyfriend up? Just curious if she’s not a gullible dumbass but a woman of (some more) integrity.

I saw her claim and was really hoping she'd elaborate on his story. Would really like to hear how someone accidentally pops positive for EPO. What supplement could possibly have been tainted?
Last edited by: rjrankin: Apr 3, 18 5:13
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [rjrankin] [ In reply to ]
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While there certainly is a sort of 'stink' to her now being associated with him....

1. His backstory is not hers to tell. If two people are in a relationship that would suck if one went around telling everyone the others backstory. I don't fault her at all for not commenting on that, especially to internet strangers...Would you want to be in a relationship with someone that airs your dirty laundry?

2. Part of a relationship is taking the bad with the good. If someone makes a mistake and when it comes to light has a serious discussion with the partner and they reach an agreement on what will happen going forward, that is a strong relationship. If someone bails because of an ugly situation, that's a crappy partner. There are probably reasons to bail...mass murderer, pedophile, rapist, etc... but I don't think PED falls into that same category. It's between them and she can decide what level of 'ugly' she can accept and fix as a couple. Would you want to be in a relationship with someone that doesn't stand by you when an ugly situation comes to light?

I have thought about what I'd do if a friend or partner were caught using PEDs. (In no way do I suspect anyone I know to be using them, if I did, I'd talk to them about it). I think it would come down to the conversation I have with them, what they are willing to admit and their plan to go forward.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [Gonefishin5555] [ In reply to ]
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Drugs for ADHD like adderall is closely related with Meth, they would probably want to ban it like any other illegal drug if ADHD drugs wasn't already so accepted in society.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [thisgirl] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't engage her in conversation, just saw a comment she made. She implied he's wrongfully accused. If I were wrongfully accused, I'd be okay with my wife saying that. I'm not here to comment on peoples relationships, but he was either hiding it from her, or she was in on it, both of which aren't cool. Either she's as guilty as him if she knew, or he was hiding it from her. If she knew I'd seriously question her results, even though she passed the Nov 3 test. It would be tempting to watch someone getting away with it and not at least think about doing it yourself. If he hid it, well that's between them.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [sammydog1] [ In reply to ]
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sammydog1 wrote:
Shouldn’t we all be looking at ourselves also. We’re the ones that have made this fertile ground for dopers. Guys like this and a lot of the other busted athletes seem to all gravitate to coaching. They’re using their doped up results to draw clients. We fall for it every time. Wow!’ Look how fast he is. I’m sure he must know what he doing with those results. Then said doper has to keep improving those results to sustain his/her business and continue stroke their own ego. And if this guy was doped to the gills, what’s it say about the others he’s racing against?


no, we shouldn't. these clowns know what they're doing when they stick needles full of gear into their arms.

they're adults, knowinginly breaking the rules. don't put that shit on me. that's theirs to own and to live with.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [rjrankin] [ In reply to ]
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I wrote that because you wrote "I was hoping she'd elaborate".

Personally, I don't see this as much different than a gambling problem, alcoholism. Yes, it may also have something to do with a mental state...being a narcissist, but all those are things that if, in my opinion, if someone is in a committed relationship and really loved the other person (not sure I could fall in love with a narcissist) should be worked through, or at least attempt to work through.

I guess we have different ideas of what a committed and loving relationship should really be.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [thisgirl] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I’d have a hard time committing to a liar and a cheat. I just wanted to hear his bullshit excuse for how he accidentally tested positive for EPO, and now I don’t know how to have a relationship. Thanks Dr Phil. Maybe if I weren’t in his AG at imfl I’d feel a little different, but I doubt it.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:

Looking at the guys previous results, he shows zero potential to run a 3:03 (ether in a half or full).

while this guy is clearly a shitbag, making comments like this concerns me. Is it not possible to go from ordinary to really fast without drugs? what is the threshold before you assume someone is a doper?

When I finally took my training seriously, I got a lot faster really quick. I joked that people probably thought I was doping, but maybe they really do think that.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [rjrankin] [ In reply to ]
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don’t remember crying about my times in my post. I’m sorry I ask the question that if this guy is doped up and still doesn’t win his age group maybe he’s not alone. If everybody is so clean, how come positives? This guy seems too fit the MO of a lot of people on here
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:
stevej wrote:

Looking at the guys previous results, he shows zero potential to run a 3:03 (ether in a half or full).

while this guy is clearly a shitbag, making comments like this concerns me. Is it not possible to go from ordinary to really fast without drugs? what is the threshold before you assume someone is a doper?

When I finally took my training seriously, I got a lot faster really quick. I joked that people probably thought I was doping, but maybe they really do think that.

Yea, I went from maybe 440 half to 410 in 2 yrs. Same course, harder conditions. Maybe i doped too.

That being said, would really like to know supposed "backstory" here.
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [thisgirl] [ In reply to ]
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thisgirl wrote:
While there certainly is a sort of 'stink' to her now being associated with him....

1. His backstory is not hers to tell. If two people are in a relationship that would suck if one went around telling everyone the others backstory. I don't fault her at all for not commenting on that, especially to internet strangers...Would you want to be in a relationship with someone that airs your dirty laundry?

2. Part of a relationship is taking the bad with the good. If someone makes a mistake and when it comes to light has a serious discussion with the partner and they reach an agreement on what will happen going forward, that is a strong relationship. If someone bails because of an ugly situation, that's a crappy partner. There are probably reasons to bail...mass murderer, pedophile, rapist, etc... but I don't think PED falls into that same category. It's between them and she can decide what level of 'ugly' she can accept and fix as a couple. Would you want to be in a relationship with someone that doesn't stand by you when an ugly situation comes to light?

I have thought about what I'd do if a friend or partner were caught using PEDs. (In no way do I suspect anyone I know to be using them, if I did, I'd talk to them about it). I think it would come down to the conversation I have with them, what they are willing to admit and their plan to go forward.

If someone's girlfriend dumps him because it turns out he's a cheater and a liar SHE is the crappy partner?? Valid reasons to dump your SO is limited to things as serious as mass murder, pedophilia and rape???

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: US Athlete tests Positive [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
drseamus wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:


This is the thing, it is really hard to judge someone's character like this. Fwiw, I met Mark Fretta once and always heard really positive things about him and how great of a guy he was. I too was shocked when he was popped for EPO many moons ago.


That's totally true. While it certainly wasn't the case for everyone, Nick was always really nice to me. He did a bike fit for me that saved my IMLP that year.


This makes me sad to hear... and wonder why someone so nice would do something so stupid.

I didn't know Nick but felt a connection as a fellow veteran and small business owner.

My wife is from Queensbury and my mother in law just emailed and said he has closed up shop and has already moved to Florida. I am guessing the members of Patriot multisport did not take the news well. All of my interactions with the club were always very positive but I never met the owner.
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