Why was it dumb? I thought you said rules are rules?



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I dont understand. You were a marshall. You came up to a group of riders totally breaking the rules for the event they signed up for. And, you did not do anything other than to say you left to find some cheaters? This is the issue. Either everyone needs to be treated EQUALLY on the rules, or throw them all out, IMO.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Mike, and other than first place in the AG, there are no awards.

I know when I was doing the Oly race, a Gal came by me and a guy then came by right on her wheel!! Talk about blantant drafting. I could see one of the TBF cars up on the road and right as I start to pass them, I see the lights go on in the car. I assume it was them saying quit the drafting.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The funnier thing about the On Your Mark Events is that their TFF races are strictly non-competitive---no published results or awards. Their Tri for Real in September is a timed, "competitive" event but not this one...

Now that's not to say that we don't go out there and race our asses off for bragging rights, etc......but you get my point.

h20. yep, i rode away to find some cheaters. a judgement call, entirely. mind you now, i am a hardcore anti-draft mofo. but to me, on the road on that day - that family of backmarker laughing females were not who i was out there looking for.

i did mention it to the RD, and numerous other friends at the event, and we all enjoyed the story. only a dick would have issued a penalty in that situation was the consensus - one i still agree with. if that family is out there again this year i will maybe give the mom a little giro d'italia-style racer-push from the motorcycle up the big climb.

I'm not sure it's that blatant a disregard for the rules. I don't think they all gather 'round in their purple and green attire and figure out who's going to pull first on the bike. They're too busy writing "Go Mikey" in chalk on the road at the climbs.

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Father Kevin

http://www.churchofcycling.org

Then have the RD changes the rules, otherwise, not giving a penalty is not about being a dick, its about the RD not having folks do their jobs!!!

If the RD told me the rules applied to all, I would have given a penalty. Rules are not supposed to be seconded guessed, but this is where I believe the bottom line issue is, so many want to use rules that way they think they should be used, not how they are written, IMO.





Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Out of all these people who try their first triathlon, you will get at least 20% of them coming back for more, and not just as something to complete, but to actually compete with themselves (and others).

I do think that penalties should be given out for safetly violations. They do need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. If they want to go on a group ride, fine, but in a race you do have to opey the rules.

I've coached summer league kids for years, and I will point blank ask the stroke and turn judges to PLEASE disqualify kids when they do something wrong. I don't care how young they are, or how cute they are....they still need to know the rules.

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Debi Bernardes

Owner, UCANDOIT Coaching Group, LLC

Please don't ref any more races, you're wasting space out there.

You're going to let these 10 soccer moms draft in a big pack dangerously, putting everyone's safety in danger?

I'm all about having fun, ect.. but either follow the rules or get off the motorcycle.

ummm. what "everyone" are you referring to ?? dramatically overreact, much ??? they were not drafting unsafely in a big pack. they were toodling along on hybrids at the tail end of the race, encouraging each other and enjoying the day and hoping to make it to the finish line before dark, i think.

interesting views, from this crowd. where do people ever get the idea that tri-heads are rigid and somewhat disturbingly over-focused on the seriousness of their hobby, i wonder??

i'll be out there again, thanx for asking. ride in your aero-bars with your game face on anywhere around me and draft and you are busted. the head "soccer mom" is gonna get a push up the hill, tho. don't like it? complain to the lead marshall . . . . me !! ha ha. :)

Geez, some of you guys really need to lighten way the f*ck up.

Ummmmm... I'm referring to you ?? Enforce double standards much??

Rules aren't there just for competition, they are also there for safety.

Hey, I could care less if a member of TNT improves his/her bike split by 5 mins if they pack up, its more the standard it sets for the race, and the danger element of 10 soccer moms yapping with each other instead of paying attention to the road.

If they want to wipe each other out, fine, I don't care. But two things: they better not sue the R.D. and end a race that I enjoy, and two, they better not put anyone else's health/race in danger.

I'm very light.

96 calories.. never tasted so imported....

My 5 year old daughter was in her first swim meet and won her heat for the breastroke. She was so excited. When the final results were posted she had been DQ'd for an improper kick. Not once did my wife or I think it was unfair, and while my daughter was upset initially - she calmed down significantly once we explained it to her. Her response in practice the next day was to ask the coach to teach her the right way to kick. It was a valuable lesson for her to learn.

Giddy up! I agree.

I'm not here to put down those doing charity work(and I know I've officially beaten horso muerto), I just see many bad things allowing packs of inexperienced cyclists onto race courses.

Far down my list of "bad things" is the rule to not draft, but it is on the list.

Seacrest out!

I remember racing breast stroke as a kid where in one particular case the entire field was disqualified except for the kid with the slowest time who was the only one kicking properly. It was one hell of a good lesson.

Record is right on this one, people just can't take his delivery.

Wow, a RD allows officials that use and interpret rules the way they see it. Wonder why our sport has so many issues. We can argue and then agree on a set of rules, have it voted on, printed and then officials "trained". But, if they do as has been written here basically throw them away and go on their own personal crusade, we are in real trouble!!



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Part of the problem as I see it is the sport is getting too complex at all levels. Complex equipmet. Complex rules. Complex training. Complex races. My sense is that some maybe more than a few are getting turned off by all this. Look at running. How simple can you get - put one foot in front of the other and try not to trip any one up. That's about it.

I agree, it's a slippery slope, but indeed, where do you draw the line. There are no real easy solutions.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

And he comes on here to brag about the fact that he'll slam the everyday tri-geek with a penalty yet let inexperienced packs ride on, and even encourage them.

Thumbs up for safety and fair play everyone!

Fleck, I agree some might be getting turned off, but when some races fill up in hours, they are not impacted.

Bottom line is a group of very smart folks over years came up with a set of rules to deal with safety, fairness, etc. in this sport. If some really think our USAT board is not in touch with the needs, then get on the USAT board and changed the rules.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Not only is running simplistic, its (for me) the most painful racing you can do.

Some 5ks, both at the end of a tri and in road races, were the most athletic pain I've been in. There's something about running short course that is just torture sometimes: looking down at your watch 4 mins in, it feels like 10 mins and you still have 13 or so mins to go.. ouch.

I have to admit, I was pretty surprised to have a person who has been allowed to be a marshall write this. I would love to ask the RD of the races he does, whether this is his races policy. If the RD says it is to not enforce the rules equally, I am not sure I would do these races. Or, I would call USAT and ask their official position.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Thank you. When the rules page on my website for my race next year is up I will let you all know. I am sorry to anyone who does not like it but my race will have all USAT rules enforced with an iron fist. Some may not like it, others will...but, rules of the sport will stand. My race will be every person against the course and conditions, not a matter of how far we can bend the rules.



BUT...and here is where I am a hippocrite. If my marshals run into the family on Cross bikes, and they are not blocking, they are not a danger and they are in the back...I will make sure that they are DQ'ed on the end results...and let them ejnoy their day. I do not think that if they get a time, a pace, a split and DQ they would care.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

GOKRTN - You're not old-fashioned....just logical, and realistic. Thank you for your comment.

Here's another view of this topic: Those that participate in any endurance event for a cause (TNT, AIDS marathon...there are a bunch) raise a TON of money, which for those who haven't tried, is a lot of work. Most of these athletes start from scratch, following a training plan to the letter. They don't have the luxury that many of us do (who may have the confidence to be able to alter a workout or two) due to their experience level, and they train for one, single race over the course of ~6 months. I think they deserve to be a part of a "real" race and not stuck in some mini-tri. Solutions, such as placing them, and anyone else who choses to label themselves as a beginner, in a later wave, is a great idea, and has worked at races such as St. A's.

Remember back to your very first race...the excitement of the morning; of being around all those athletes...the idea that you were toeing the line, just like the rest of them, and were going to get to compete. Allowing newbies to participate in this way is a driving force behind TNT.

As a former TNT athlete (and now a competing age-grouper) I thank the TNT program for allowing me to get a foot in the door of this sport.

I agree, however, that there is a weak link somewhere, although I think you (Record) walk a fine line in throwing stones at all TNT athletes. There is NOTHING in the training program that supports breaking ANY rules during a triathlon. In fact, usually the head referee is invited to the pre-race pasta dinner to inform everyone of the USAT rules. Rather than accusing them of having blatant disregard for the rules, perhaps you should give them the benefit of the doubt that 1) they are newbies, 2) being as such, there is a lot to have to remember during your first race and 3) that instead of thinking about the rude age-grouper behind them snarling at their purple jersey, they are more likely in awe of the athletes around them, proud that they got themselves there and may just be thinking of a life that was saved due to the hardwork they just did.

I'll step off my soapbox by saying that a little patience goes a long way. Why not welcome the newbies, rather than shove them off the road because they are in our way.

I agree with you. But, when the marshal started the group of bikers knew the rules, and didnt care, then what do you do? Just leave and ignore them like he said? Or do you first tell them to follow the rules or he would have to DQ them?



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep