Great thanks. Strangely, I cannot order it from the "Swiss" website but it would be possible from the Nordic website.

I just called my LBS who put an order in with his Argon rep.

I usually get a new bike every year. I got the P5D in late 2019 and barely rode it but the Argon really caught my eye and since I can do the swap at minimal cost and re-use most of my components I figured why not.

What is the retail price of the frameset in your country?

I don't know what retail is but I was quoted 6200 plus tax. That's Canadian dollars.

If that's retail, at least it is lower than the P5, I guess. Wash wishfully thinking it would be closer to the Ordu price range

Did you see a dimension chart before ordering? I still haven't seen one online

Someone posted it in this thread but I was also sent it via email before finalizing the order

Oops, you're right, sorry.

Wow this bike is the tallest and shortest of all the releases in the past few years.

But the Nordic has the Shimano groupset which some suggested has been ditched in favour of SRAM for 2021.

Does confirm BB86 though.

Agreed. I love all the integration, and it would have been my next bike, but I litterally can not duplicate my fit on any of the frame sizes. It's 2cm shorter than a Speed Concept.

Going for my bike fit next week and so hoping that I can fit onto this bike...*fingers crossed*

I'm assuming this is in part because they have the 118 which is very low, and combined with this gives an argon option for any fit?

The pad reach on the medium is longer than my current 54cm Cervelo P5D, when you say that's it's 2cm shorter than the Speed Concept what are you referring to?

I'm a large or XL depending on the brand. The XL compared to other bikes in the most long-low setting:
- 40mm taller and 25mm shorter than 58cm P5d
- 30mm taller and 58mm shorter than XL P3X
- 60mm taller and 95mm shorter than XL Plasma

So grandparents can have a comfortable upright fit and carry all of their medicine in the integrated storage while low athletes have to pick the bike which has no storage?

Given that pad spacers/monorisers are more aero than headtubes and can be stacked as high as necessary, I don't understand the purpose of tall bikes. Anyone can fit on a low bike with spacers. But not everyone can fit on a short bike.

Edit: The 118 is more of a TT bike like a Superslice and Shiv TT, which are even longer and lower than the long-distance tri bikes with storage

I *think* you are mistaken with the measurements.

The argon dimensions are to centre pad. The argon Large seems to me to be the same as the P3X in XL. If I take the midpoint of the E-119 range for stack and reach and then take 20mm off the reach to be akin to the back of the pad that puts you pretty much in teh mid of the cervelo fit chart for XL, if anything slightly 'low'. Note this is teh setup calculator at the bottom, the stack and reach in the bike geometry are to top of head tube on the cervelo based on their diagram.

P3X Triathlon Bikes | Cervélo Cycles (cervelo.com)

So if you are comparing just the frames, that's ignoring the fit comes from the specific front end that the argon (and all the bikes you list) come with. So those do impact the handling geometry, but not fit.

I guess go the otherway, what is the stack and reach to pads (centre or back) that you are aiming for?

Most standard cups are usually 80-90mm long so you need to subtract 40-45mm from center of pad to rear. I was generous and subtracted 40mm. Now that I'm taking another look, it looks like Argon uses 51speedshop cups, which are 110mm long, so back of pad is actually 55mm from Argon's center-pad measurement. Granted, 51 pads do not have holes close to the edges so you could gain 10-15mm of reach by switching cups. Cervelo cups already have holes close to the edge, to this "trick" doesn't apply to those bikes.

My comparison above is for pad measurements, not frame.

The Cervelo fit tool on their website is under development. That's why the tool says fits are possible even when the red-X is off the parallelogram. I confirmed the Cervelo numbers with Eric in the Cervelo fit forum, assuming EX10 cockpit.

So, given the cups that Argon is using, these are the relative long-low fits to back of pad using stock cups. Added a few more bikes
- 41mm taller and 40mm shorter than 58cm P5d
- 31mm taller and 62mm shorter than XL P3X
- 36mm taller and 44mm shorter than L Shiv
- 53mm taller and 43 mm shorter than XL Ordu
- 63mm taller and 109mm shorter than XL Plasma

That is hugely different.

For reference:
Argon XL: 486x 653y
P5d 58cm: 526x 612y
P3X XL: 548x 622y
Shiv L: 530x 617y
Ordu XL: 529x and 600y
Plasma XL: 595x 590y

Even the Canyon XL, which just became very tall and short, is still 9mm lower and 44mm longer than Argon.

As I'm interested in a 119 to replace my 114, I'm keen to make sure I'm understanding.

The Argon XL I get your stack as that's off the chart at 65.3, although I also note the large is 62.3 ( As I say, the Argon XL seem to be more like XLs in other brands. But the reach, I'm trying to understand. The XL reach is 45.4-54.1. The L reach is 44.4-53.1. So taking 40mm off that then 50.1(XL) and 49.1(L).

I'm stating the large size too as you do refer to 58cm in your comparators, but that's in the Large band for Argon.

I don't understand the stated sizes for the P3X.

Is the 526x 612y in the screenshot your back of pad fit that you're trying to replicate? That's within the 58cm P5d parallelogram. For P3X that is ~10mm lower than the XL or ~10mm longer than the L. Not quite hitting the fit but will get within 10mm on both sizes.

You won't reach those numbers with Argon. You can't even get close.
- The minimum stack on the 119 L is 623 and longest is 491 (531-40). That is both 10mm taller and 35mm shorter.
- To get closer on reach, you'd need the XL 119. But the minimum stack on the 119 XL is 653 (40mm taller than you want to be) and longest is only 501 (541-40), so you'd still be 25mm short on reach.

And that's with aftermarket cups. Subtract another 15mm from reach if you use the stock 51speedshop cups

Edit: I only mentioned 58cm for the P5d because it doesn't come in a larger size. All other comparisons are XL

No, that's me putting in your P3X dimensions into the Cervelo fit calc and show that it's impossible by their estimate...

My point being that either Argon are making a unique bike size, or there's something odd going on in the numbers that are being compared.

 
Lots of debate and questions answered in the "Argon 18 Executive Owners Club" on FB, FYI

And your scott measurements - where are they from? Scott Plasma 5 - Sizing - Large or XL: Triathlon Forum: Slowtwitch Forums Chart here has very different numbers.

Which is no use as I don't have facebook and it's a private group...

So can you help with any explanation?

My Scott numbers are for the new Plasma. The 5 was short and tall.

New Plasma: https://www.scott-sports.com/...ke?article=280594020

I said:
P3X XL: 548x 622y
P5d 58cm: 526x 612

You took my P5d number and put it into the P3X fitting tool, which are different. Cervelo fit thread also confirmed the numbers I listed.

The Argon is really short and really tall whether we are looking at L/58 or XL bikes. The numbers I provided above are all back of pad measured from the BB, so comparisons are equal.

Argon is certainly offering "unique" sizing.

Edit: Also, for the P5d, there are two cockpits. The EX10 adds 10mm reach relative to the EX11 which is used in the chart