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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
walfisch wrote:
Argon 18 has a post on the integrated disc brakes

https://www.argon18.com/...tegrated-disc-brakes


So a 1 watt advantage if riding at 300 watts...
I wonder how easy/difficult the calipers are to work on, adjust or replace if needed? Would it have been better to sacrifice 1 watt and been able to use any disc caliper?


It's design for design's sake... that's the way disc brakes should *always* have been.
Understood, but is it worth it if it requires the use of a proprietary caliper? Maybe it doesn't matter, I admit to knowing very little about disc brakes.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Awhile back I was listening to a podcast with the owner of Parcours wheels, it was The Brick Session podcast.

And he was talking about the next real thing was designing disc brake wheels as integrated systems to be more aerodynamic than their rim brake predecessor/competitors. Based on that it seems for the most part disc rotors are just slapped onto the wheel.

<Mr. Smithers voice> "Excellent, excellent...the logical progression has begun...hehehehe" ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be worried if it required a proprietary rotor, it does not.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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Rideon77 wrote:
If your adjusting the bars a lot your doing it wrong

If you break a lot your doing it wrong

I don’t necessarily agree, but even taking your argument...if you’ve looked around in transition, the vast majority are doing it wrong. So, manufacturers should create easily adjustable front-ends just like they create other “solutions” like storage for those that would otherwise tape 16 gels to their top tube.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcanuck wrote:
So a 1 watt advantage if riding at 300 watts...

That's about the same advantage as the tririg rim brakes over standard shimano callipers. Cool, but not worth it if it comes at a huge cost/watt ratio (like the tririg).
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [beston] [ In reply to ]
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beston wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
So a 1 watt advantage if riding at 300 watts...


That's about the same advantage as the tririg rim brakes over standard shimano callipers. Cool, but not worth it if it comes at a huge cost/watt ratio (like the tririg).


I suspect the story will be

"with discs we can" (insert things like wider tires, more aerodynamics.....).

"therefore we saved x watts"

"the cost is 3 watts for a normal caliper, of which we saved 1"

"we are x-2 watts ahead with better braking capability"

The big question is how big did they get X
Last edited by: marcag: Oct 13, 20 17:49
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Already posted. 3.2w ahead of the E118 Next, and 6.9w ahead of E-119 Tri+
Last edited by: Duncan74: Oct 13, 20 23:57
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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At what speed?
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't say, but I would guess they stuck with their previous approach of doing 45kph velodrome laps. So that's relative to about 300w. So 1%.

http://aerogeeks.com/2019/10/08/argon-18-e-118-tri-first-look/ - source of the previous testing metho.


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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Except I believe there was a * on those numbers before they asked to be taken down.

Numbers without the protocol mean little to me.

I am more interested in the detail since I think my next bike will be a UCI legal bike and I want to understand the cost

For example, one vendor (not Argon) came out and said their new bike was 7 watts faster than their previous. In fact if you put the bikes side to side they were 1 watt. But if you started loaded them with bottles, flat kits.... yes, they were 7. Legit test, but not applicable to me.

If a UCI bike is 1 watt slower than non UCI, I will buy the UCI to avoid eventual hassles at TTs, although it's not strictly enforced. If I want to race an IM I will find smart ways to handle the other details.

I would also like to see some numbers at yaw.
Last edited by: marcag: Oct 14, 20 5:12
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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Nice bike. I prefer nice clean lines as opposed to one with storage gizmos and water holders hanging everywhere. Put a bottle between the bars, one behind the seat and ride!
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Unless the UCI have officially mandated the rule updates that they tease a short while back. I would hold off on buying any UCI legal gear for now. It might be a year but changes are coming.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Rideon77 wrote:
If your adjusting the bars a lot your doing it wrong

If you break a lot your doing it wrong


I don’t necessarily agree, but even taking your argument...if you’ve looked around in transition, the vast majority are doing it wrong. So, manufacturers should create easily adjustable front-ends just like they create other “solutions” like storage for those that would otherwise tape 16 gels to their top tube.

That I agree with. I don't want to get into the disc breaks on TT bike debate......and since we are probably at the peak of aero....short of a material change for frames integration, storage, and ease of maintenance will be the "new" thing.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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Ohio_Roadie wrote:
Unless the UCI have officially mandated the rule updates that they tease a short while back. I would hold off on buying any UCI legal gear for now. It might be a year but changes are coming.

Good to know. This may trigger a bunch of World Tour TT bikes. I notice many are still on rim brakes.

I am in no rush. I just want to be ready if/when I need to change.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
Ohio_Roadie wrote:
Unless the UCI have officially mandated the rule updates that they tease a short while back. I would hold off on buying any UCI legal gear for now. It might be a year but changes are coming.


Good to know. This may trigger a bunch of World Tour TT bikes. I notice many are still on rim brakes.

I am in no rush. I just want to be ready if/when I need to change.


It will be interesting to see what is going to happen. Honestly I love my rim brake TT bike with TriRig brakes. Unless I'm forced to, I don't see the utility in switching to disc here as the potential benefits, if any, simply aren't worth it, yet.

https://cyclingtips.com/...t-to-get-a-shake-up/



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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:

Except I believe there was a * on those numbers before they asked to be taken down.

Numbers without the protocol mean little to me.

I am more interested in the detail since I think my next bike will be a UCI legal bike and I want to understand the cost

For example, one vendor (not Argon) came out and said their new bike was 7 watts faster than their previous. In fact if you put the bikes side to side they were 1 watt. But if you started loaded them with bottles, flat kits.... yes, they were 7. Legit test, but not applicable to me.

If a UCI bike is 1 watt slower than non UCI, I will buy the UCI to avoid eventual hassles at TTs, although it's not strictly enforced. If I want to race an IM I will find smart ways to handle the other details.

I would also like to see some numbers at yaw.

The * was related to using wider wheels (that now fit) on the E-119 Disk compared to the E-119 rim. And so the answers pretty clear, if you want to race UCI at the moment then the E-118 Next is the Argon 18 tool for that. And equally the Cervelo with the 7watt saving that wasn't a saving would have been irrelevant anyway.

Headline here is that you're in the margin of error and if you're at the point where a 10s saving on 100km TTs is going to make a significant difference to your life, then fair play. Genuinely, that's something I admire as I know the dedication that has gone into training, diet, aero position testing and every tiny kit choice down to socks and gloves.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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Ohio_Roadie wrote:
Unless the UCI have officially mandated the rule updates that they tease a short while back. I would hold off on buying any UCI legal gear for now. It might be a year but changes are coming.

When I got that email I didn't think it posed that much opportunity for TT bike design, the things that have changed are a very minimal part of the overall frame drag picture. I haven't exhaustively gone through whether I could come up with any improvements based on the rule changes though.

As far as waiting for new stuff - there are a few more bikes coming out in the next couple of months that won't take advantage of new rules (plus all the ones released this year) so those manufacturers then locked into current model for the next 3-5 years. I know of 2022 and 2023 bikes in design phase now that will have the opportunity to investigate what can be done.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [r-b] [ In reply to ]
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r-b wrote:
Nice bike. I prefer nice clean lines as opposed to one with storage gizmos and water holders hanging everywhere. Put a bottle between the bars, one behind the seat and ride!

You and I think alike. Less is more.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [AnthonyParis] [ In reply to ]
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new post on the frame storage: https://www.argon18.com/...sc-frame-integration
Last edited by: zoso2220: Oct 22, 20 20:02
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [zoso2220] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.argon18.com/en/stories/rd-deep-dive-fit-meets-function-cockpit-design






Somehow I don't seem to be seeing buttons for shifting on the basebar?
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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After seeing the Canyon and doing a little more research on the integration here - this is a very well put together bike!

You don't necessarily see how incredibly well designed it is. For the people who don't like the integrated hydration bladder...this is nearly the bike...

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
After seeing the Canyon and doing a little more research on the integration here - this is a very well put together bike!

You don't necessarily see how incredibly well designed it is. For the people who don't like the integrated hydration bladder...this is nearly the bike...

It's a damn good bike. Argon kept it simple and simple is good, aero, and light. The Canyon CFR is 3lbs heavier and no more aero.
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [walfisch] [ In reply to ]
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walfisch wrote:
https://www.argon18.com/en/stories/rd-deep-dive-fit-meets-function-cockpit-design

It’s there, SW-R9150





Somehow I don't seem to be seeing buttons for shifting on the basebar?
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Constantine] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone come across the geometry specs for this new model?
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Re: New: Argon 18 E-119 Tri+ Disc - #WorstKeptSecret [Belgian_Waffle] [ In reply to ]
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