Nevertheless, overzealous motivations are known to blur objectivity and fairness, that's a fact of inescapable reality when it comes to this topic.

Word. Sing it from The Mountain.

If you're going to fuck with someones career, you had better catch them in the act.

This summer a doctor told me he thought I was doping because my testosterone levels were off the chart and he said "what are you on?" I told him I'm out in the Sun 12 hours a day.....the Vitamin D connection....totally natural.

Endurance sports are relatively young......there are things the experts do not yet understand about how eating certain combinations of foods and/or 'reacting/adapting' to an environment might profile one as a doper....even though everything is perfectly natural, but only because the 'experts' cannot yet explain things.

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

It seems to me that you have come to this forum in order to insult anyone who does not immediately agree with everything you say.

If you were my father-in-law, I would be on the phone telling you to stop posting and shut the fuck up.

You likely did not (intentionally) write the bolded words about yourself, but they sure seem to apply to you based on your writings in this thread. In any event, I don't get your point. Are you saying unequuivocally that your son-in-law did not do what he is alleged to have done? Or are you saying that there isn't sufficient proof that he did what he is alleged to have done?

---

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Finally, someone who can comprehend the written word, thank you Mojozenmaster, and well said.

Let's be clear: You came on here to defend someone convicted in a semi-judicial process. The evidence against the guy is widely known and published in several places. You claim a politically motivated conspiracy. When asked to explain further you have nothing. No evidence. Just vague hand waving.

Are you really surprised that only the crazies on this forum are lining up on your side?

What is a lot of elite athletes in terms of percentage of elite athlete population? There were lots of tests and research to determine what the hematocrit (HCT) level should be and lots of the research involved retrospective analysis of blood tests done prior to the drug EPO being introduced (to find known clean samples). In Cycling- if you truly have a higher hematacrit than the imposed level 50% limit (which is actually 51% to give the athlete/testing equipment another benefit of procedure) , you can actually apply for a naturally higher HCT level exemption- that provides you a higher level before you will test positive. You just have to prove it to the UCI with various longitudinal tests and you can get your exemption. Very few cyclists actually have this exemption.... which proves the level is where it should be. Jonathan Vaughters- when he raced, did have a naturally higher HCT exemption- however, he lived at higher altitude in Colorado.


Not sure what Triathlon does- and from this thread, it seems triathlon doesn't do much to deter dopers and the tests they currently do is not for catching cheats, but is more for placating owners, sponsors, media, and others that have financial interests in the sport- which allows all of them to promote 'clean sport'.

My apology for providing a response to a question that doesn't coincide with the judgements you've likely resigned yourself to or just can't comprehend.


I just have to say that you come on this forum, make very vague accusations and then attack anyone who doesn't believe you. This response is very typical but you just continue to say there is "politics" involved with "some individuals" and that everyone here has already made up their mind or can't comprehend you. Maybe we can't comprehend because you are not actually saying anything, just making blanket statements.


It's very strange and for the life of me I can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish.

Mr Kohl did not show up at the advise of his lawyers.

You don't need to have been to law school to figure out why that is sound advice.

Your word-smithing is kind of lame.

I'll bet right now that your "evidence" is speculation.......unless you reply with it.......

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Re In vs. Out of Competition testing...

A few of us talked about this at IMCozumel. I do not know if there was testing, I think maybe there was. But, in regards to everyone being subject to out of comp testing...is this true, or is it only those who are on the published list?

http://ironmanpromembership.com/anti-doping/rtp/

I ask because on one hand it seems like an effort has been made, but on the other it almost seems like if you are not on the list, you can assume that you will only be tested around competition. I just did a little bit of reading, and it seems that is the case. Of course, they can add anyone to that list, but if the list only contains 50-80 athletes...what about the hundreds of others. When you get down to it, in competition testing is really a bit of an IQ test...kind of like a scheduled annual physical drug test as part of a job. I am just bringing this up as a point of conversation between myself and more than 1 or 2 of our fellow professionals.

What does a test cost? Is it reasonable for every single athlete who pays the WTC fee for professionals to be subject to $750/cost of test number of tests per year? That, to me, certainly seems like at least a bit of a deterrent.

---

Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

What is a lot of elite athletes in terms of percentage of elite athlete population? //

I don't know the exact number, not sure anyone does. I know i would have been one, and i know pauly has tested at 51% at sea level. Mine was at altitude. It just makes sense that folks that have risen to the top of endurance sports without help, would also have values much higher than the general population. Just for fun I did a little research on peoples that live at high altitudes, and there was one group where the average male had a 59% HCT and the women were at 50%. It was just to satisfy my curiosity that there were many external conditions that could affect HCT besides doping, and by a lot. It took awhile, but the powers to be also discovered this, and thus they had to change the rule to suit this new evidence. If even just a few(i presume it is more than just a few), the rule needed to be changed so as not to ruin peoples careers for having the good genetics that got them to the top. Remember that before this change, you were automatically considered doped if above 50%.

As for triathlon testing, I tend to agree with you outside of ITU racing. Even in ITU, there was some funny business in the beginning, not sure if that has all been worked out now. Triathlon started very early in testing pros, and it was the pros that insisted upon it. But somewhere along the way it went off the rails, and is just now beginning to get back on track. Many NGB's do good testing, and some races. Far from what needs to be done, but better than the nothing that was going on for a long time.

Technically you werent considered to be doped if you were over 50%, you couldn't race for "health" reasons. I don't think anyone got 2 year bans.

---

Styrrell

perhaps I should write in pink.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TriRaceBook.com
.
Hawaii Qualification Analysis

If you're going to fuck with someones career, you had better catch them in the act.

And all this time I thought you did not like Landis (before he confessed at least) because he was not caught in the act..................Remember all those 60 minute threads
Edit....guess that was Hamilton...my bad

The folly in all of this is this is that it denegrates the sports through myth.....a sport that people supposedly care for and want to advance but are far too comfortable demonizing.

Something is not right here.

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

I *believe* OOC is only for athletes on the list. I count 43names. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think to register and test "regularly" an athlete for urine only, it's about $5,000/year. So that's ~$200,000. I don't know the cost for maintaining a blood passport, which Ironman does now, but I believe it is significantly more.

It is NOT reasonable for every athlete to be tested at 750/year. That much I know.

But the detailed questions of finance would be better directed to Kate M or Paula or Heather @ WTC. I've had discussions with Paula and Kate about the program, but not enough to reply with firm answers on anything other than $750 wouldn't even cover the cost of a single OOC test for urine only. That much I do know; or, rather, that was what was conveyed to me; I do not have any personal first hand knowledge about the cost of WADA-approved testing.

---

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Perfection of thought and groundbreaking philosophical insight, such as I offer here, should never be taken for granted

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

While that may in fact be plausible, that's not exactly germane to this particular case. Again, in an attempt to keep what at least appear to be the clear FACTS of this case, Michael Weiss *never* failed a drug test. The entirety of the case - as far as I know from reading the various articles on the topic - is based upon circumstantial evidence. It's evidence that some find compelling and that others do not. But this particular case is not about the veracity of drug tests, although that's actually a much more interesting subject, as there is certainly a significant amount of debate on that very topic that goes generally unreported by the sporting media. So in this case, your "combinations of foods and/or..." is not actually relevant. It wouldn't kill you to read the articles on the topics you are posting about you know. But I really bring this up because whatever you believe, I think it ought to be based upon the actual facts of the case.

Right now, unless some new information either comes to light or is made public, Weiss will either be convicted based off of circumstantial evidence that is found to be compelling or exonerated in light of circumstantial evidence that was found not be compelling. What you think about that state of affairs is pretty clearly a matter of strong personal opinion. But this hasn't (yet) become a case of a vanishing twin or Chimera syndrome or Spanish beef or...

---

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

"my" evidence is what's been published in velonews and the german publications listed. It's not definitive, but it's a damn sight more convincing than "there's a conspiracy, but I can't tell you anything about it."

There's also his competitors, and their willingness to speak out about it publicly, that counts for something. Especially since pro triathletes are not known accusing their competitors of cheating in general, nor doping specifically.

 

I thought the evidence was that kohl saw Weiss doping. Or are you saying that kohl says he just saw him at the doping location?

That's direct evidence.

Again, doesn't mean it's true, or false.

I guess that's the opinion part. It seems to be *factual* that he was at Humanplasma; I *believe* Weiss said he went, but that he did not actually receive any treatment. I think there are a range of plausible explanations for that ranging from, "I was considering doing it, but then decided I couldn't" to "I was simply getting some advice on keeping iron levels up." I assume (dangerous, I know) that this place must have some legitimate function besides helping athletes cheat...

And I think Kohl has said that he saw him dope, but that seems a bit harder to put in the "fact" column since it seems uncorroborated. But I am not a lawyer. And I certainly don't know firsthand any details. So if you are a lawyer and are saying that Kohl saying he saw him dope is direct evidence, then I apologize for misspeaking.

---

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

His case has been looming over the triathlon scene for far too long. It was and is detrimental for the sport.

My suggestion (FWIW !):

1. Come clean regarding his MTB career.

"I did it back then, it was dumb and I pay for it now with the suspension."

2. Stand firm in saying that he never took drugs as a triathlete.

That looks like the easy part because he never got tested positive or was seen at dodgy institutions during that time. However, I wouldn't believe him and many others wouldn't. He could ignore that but it just won't go away. Ask the Nina Krafts. Getting sponsors will be harder. So what to do? I still believe that there is a way to be transparent and more outspoken about drugs. There has to be a better way than just throwing up your arms saying "I never got tested positive." He knows first hand what's happening. He can tell the story. He can put his monthly blood test results online. Use his two years off racing to talk at club meetings, events etc. Work closely with NADA to help them identify where to look. It takes a tremendous amount if criminal energy to do all that and still take drugs.

---

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

So...if you will allow me to translate: "I don't really have any specific information why certain individuals or governing body's have it out for my son-in-law. He has professed his innocence and we support him so there must be something going on behind the scenes that we are not aware of."

I can certainly understand your take on the situation and wish you all the best. Personally, I don't know anything about MW or the situation. Public opinion doesn't really matter at the end of the day so my advice is don't get twisted up in a knot over this on an internet forum. ;)

Uli,

The problem with all of this and not just this case, is that that it's reached the point that the general public really does not know who to believe anymore.

Whether an athlete has a positive test or their is just circumstantial evidence and rumors swirling around, they will deny, deny, deny - and so will their circle of friends. If there is a positive test - they'll typically claim that their was a break-down in the testing protocol, claim that it's some form of error, and still deny they did anything wrong. Indeed, these errors and mistakes do happen and this has proven to be the case - so even the "system" is not perfect or 100% right all the time.

The only time that credibility gets re-established is in the rare cases when, there is a postive test, and the athlete comes forward, of their own will, other than outing of the test itself, and admits that they did what they did and take their lumps. This seemed to be the case with David Millar.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Just one more reason to make an effort from his part.


So does he but maybe he changes his mind.


Well, it's not "of their own will" because he needed to get tested positive first, otherwise he would have kept going (Millar confirmed that).

BUT: why do like everyone else does? Why not try something new? There is enough evidence out there to believe that Weiss is just the tip of iceberg. I could go on for pages and name you names but I'm not allowed to.

Weiss should see his failure as a chance to make things right and help fighting the cheaters. I personally believe that it actually is his only chance to ever be fully happy in the sport again whether he ultimately gets away without a sentence or not. Because he's done. He's a "doper" in the public opinion. And, IMHO, rightfully so. Hence, focusing on looking forward, standing up and showing character is his best and only true way forward. And that's particularly true here in America where people are more willing than almost anywhere else to give people another chance.

---

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK