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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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So does this mean he's not banned from Xterra competition or that his WC will not be revoked?
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
sniper100 wrote:
Just as an FYI, Ironman was the first to really institute an organized drug testing program, and they did so at the end of 2009. After I won IMAZ in 2009 was the first time I was ever drug tested. Since then, any athlete who races WTC races is subject to both out-of-competition and in-competition testing, though the number of tests obviously depends on the athlete, especially with regards to out-of-competition testing. And it was not until end of 2010 / early 2011 that Ironman tested blood; 2009 through mid-2010, WTC only had provisions for urine testing.

With that Jordan you are right. Nonetheless WTC missed out on a great opportunity to do even better. We all know post race testing is viewed by many as just nonsense. Only the really simple minds get caught positive at a post race test. It's surprise out of competition tests that do the most damage. And of those WTC does not do too many, right? With the anti doping programme that was installed for all Pros racing IM Germany 2006(?)-2009 there was a special testing programme which had a female pro I know personally tested 9 times in 2009, her only year in that testing pool. Unter the global testing regiment of WTC in 2010 she was tested - guess what - ZERO - times leading up to the race. It has been said that the German testing was dismessed by WTC as too expensive. And I understand that. If each athlete pays $ 750 a year then this covers about one test per athlete & year and he has not even participated in any races. Any further tests would have to come from WTC itself who for obvious reasons aka profit won'T invest any further than absolutely necessary.

@ Axel: Great detective work by the way!
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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these times Humanplasma was known for other things than doping. Later on, when Humanplasma was well known among athletes for the procedures offered they urged the athletes and their manager (Matschiner, who confessed and wrote a book about it) set up the hardware at other places (Matschiners home and later somewhere in Hungary when I recall correctly). Authorities found invoices in Matschiners records that charged Weiss for creating training plans http://sport.oe24.at/...chster-Bombe/1509099 later on.
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [mks75] [ In reply to ]
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mks75 wrote:
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Floyd yet he is thrown to the wolves.


Maybe because he wrote a book denying the doping allegations, then comes clean after he collects his profits from that book.


and... Maybe because he funded his appeal process on goodwill donations then comes clean after that failed
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Paulo Sousa] [ In reply to ]
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What Rappstar says is unfortunately true. Up until the end of 2009, a small percentage of IM races had in-competition testing and there was no systematic out-of-competition testing (even if some athletes competing were being tested by their NGB).

Indeed, Paulo.

It often comes as a surprise to many triathletes that outside of the ITU races, there has been very little testing done in almost all other triathlon races around thew world, and the triathletes that take part in these races. Case in point, and again, not to make a judgment about this particular situation, but I have my doubts if there is any testing in the Xterra triathlons. Perhaps at their "World Championship" in Maui, but that may be it. Wading into this issue peripherally, just as a question of interest, was there any testing at the Xterra Maui this year?

This does vary from country to country, but in many countries if an athlete is not in the ITU program in that country, then their is a very good chance that they'll never get tested - in races or in out-of-competition testing. As I said, there are all kinds of elite/pro level triathletes, who win money at races, place well, have generous sponsorship packages etc . . . who have never been tested in their whole race career! Many athletes who focused exclusively on the IM races fell into this camp. This is why the WTC, who I note is not a sports governing body, but a privately run and owned, event management and marketing business, moved to try and start to at least, close this very wide open door for their events, by setting up their own testing process. It's an admirable move on the WTC's part, but it does make one wonder if the sport of triathlon would be better served in this area if everyone was under the same umbrella than the yard-sale it is right now!







Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Nov 30, 11 10:18
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I think it would be better, but I can't see where the money is going to come from. Random drug testing where you send someone to someones home is big bucks. Even if a Pro is "subject" to randon testing it wont be a deterent if 3 guys a year get tested.

I know some masters cyclists have been tested and banned in the last couple of years, but if I go to the Dr and he prescribes medicine for a cold I wouldn't check to see f its legal. The chances of my getting tested at a race are just too low to bother.

Unless every pro gets rested at least 1x a year or so I think most dirty athletes will take their chances.

Styrrell
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [cjathey] [ In reply to ]
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Well said, fully agree.

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I was in Maui for the XTERRA World Champs and I'm almost positive there was no testing.

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [hazelman] [ In reply to ]
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WTC's OOC schedule varies with the athlete. I was tested three times OOC this year. Some athletes are tested more. Not every athlete who races is part of the WTC testing pool; they used to have the athletes in the pool listed, but I can't find it - or they've taken it down. It was ~75 athletes (and there are about 500+ athletes with WTC licenses).

Anyway, here is the PDF with the # of OOC tests: http://c23038.r38.cf1.rackcdn.com/...oping-Statistics.pdf

Based off my recollection of the approximate number of athletes, it appears ~3/year is relatively standard for OOC (112 tests so far OOC this year).

More info here: http://ironmanpromembership.com/anti-doping/

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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ShawnF wrote:
I was in Maui for the XTERRA World Champs and I'm almost positive there was no testing.

Well, you can't be positive if there is no testing ;-)
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:


This does vary from country to country, but in many countries if an athlete is not in the ITU program in that country, then their is a very good chance that they'll never get tested - in races or in out-of-competition testing. As I said, there are all kinds of elite/pro level triathletes, who win money at races, place well, have generous sponsorship packages etc . . . who have never been tested in their whole race career! Many athletes who focused exclusively on the IM races fell into this camp. This is why the WTC, who I note is not a sports governing body, but a privately run and owned, event management and marketing business, moved to try and start to at least, close this very wide open door for their events, by setting up their own testing process. It's an admirable move on the WTC's part, but it does make one wonder if the sport of triathlon would be better served in this area if everyone was under the same umbrella than the yard-sale it is right now!






Maybe true if the triathlon world was only North America. Many European federations have had their top long course athletes in out of competition testing programs for quite a long time. I was part of one between 1998 and 2009 for example, without being a high profile athlete at all obviously. That being said implementing testing programs doesn't solve any problems by itself if the testing is not sufficient. Bernhard Kohl admitted only 2 out of 100 doping tests he went through while doping was positive so it's safe to say that there are ways to cheat the system. And obviously if the average triathlete within a testing program is tested only 3 times/year it's not nearly enough to prove anyone is clean.




BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se
Last edited by: bjorn: Nov 30, 11 12:54
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Mapletop] [ In reply to ]
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Mapletop - can you explain the motivation for over-turning the original finding? Don't say "political" because that is not specific. What's the reasoning for this injustice? Who benefits? Does someone have a personal grudge? Give us something.
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [trigolt] [ In reply to ]
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trigolt wrote:
Mapletop - can you explain the motivation for over-turning the original finding? Don't say "political" because that is not specific. What's the reasoning for this injustice? Who benefits? Does someone have a personal grudge? Give us something.


I'd like to have that answer with certitude, but it resides with a group of individuals in Austria. I can say this however, there is overhwelming political pressure everywhere to root out unlawful conduct in sport, and rightfully so. It comes as no surprise for political motivations to be aligned with economic interests as well, you needn't look too far in our own country to see that. Nevertheless, overzealous motivations are known to blur objectivity and fairness, that's a fact of inescapable reality when it comes to this topic. You will beleive what you want to beleive, that too is an inescapable truth.
Last edited by: Mapletop: Nov 30, 11 14:36
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
WTC's OOC schedule varies with the athlete. I was tested three times OOC this year. Some athletes are tested more. Not every athlete who races is part of the WTC testing pool; they used to have the athletes in the pool listed, but I can't find it - or they've taken it down. It was ~75 athletes (and there are about 500+ athletes with WTC licenses).

Anyway, here is the PDF with the # of OOC tests: http://c23038.r38.cf1.rackcdn.com/...oping-Statistics.pdf

Based off my recollection of the approximate number of athletes, it appears ~3/year is relatively standard for OOC (112 tests so far OOC this year).

More info here:

http://www.usada.org/athlete-test-history

Brett Miller
Cydesdale Triathlon
M2 Revolution
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Mapletop] [ In reply to ]
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With that answer you should go into politics...Spoken like a true politician.....
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Yet, he's in insurance.

Judging from his website, Jeff sounds like a really nice guy who does a lot of good things in and for his community. I hope he doesn't take all this too hard.

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
With that answer you should go into politics...Spoken like a true politician.....

My apology for providing a response to a question that doesn't coincide with the judgements you've likely resigned yourself to or just can't comprehend.
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [uli] [ In reply to ]
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uli wrote:
Yet, he's in insurance.

Judging from his website, Jeff sounds like a really nice guy who does a lot of good things in and for his community. I hope he doesn't take all this too hard.

The same may be said of you Uli judging from your Facebook page but I beleive insurance agent is still higher on the sh*t list of professions than lawyers and politicians.I'll take insurance over those anyday.
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Mapletop] [ In reply to ]
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Can you please point to a post I made that reflected one way or the other?....I stated that in my post because you were asked a question and reading your response seemed not to give any difinitive answer.
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Mr.Kenney, your post was purposefully cynical and sarcastic rather than intellectual or sincere in it's rebuke. Pretty telling really.
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Mapletop] [ In reply to ]
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Mapletop wrote:
The same may be said of you Uli judging from your Facebook page but I beleive insurance agent is still higher on the sh*t list of professions than lawyers and politicians.

So I hear! Kind of glad I found my true vocation but the education still is useful (and I'm particularly NOT talking about this case).

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [uli] [ In reply to ]
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On that, we have common ground.
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Mapletop] [ In reply to ]
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Mapletop wrote:
trigolt wrote:
Mapletop - can you explain the motivation for over-turning the original finding? Don't say "political" because that is not specific. What's the reasoning for this injustice? Who benefits? Does someone have a personal grudge? Give us something.


I'd like to have that answer with certitude, but it resides with a group of individuals in Austria. I can say this however, there is overhwelming political pressure everywhere to root out unlawful conduct in sport, and rightfully so. It comes as no surprise for political motivations to be aligned with economic interests as well, you needn't look too far in our own country to see that. Nevertheless, overzealous motivations are known to blur objectivity and fairness, that's a fact of inescapable reality when it comes to this topic. You will beleive what you want to beleive, that too is an inescapable truth.

I WAS giving you the benefit of the doubt... but with that non-answer to a clear and direct question, take your ball and go home

"if you chose it, it's not really pain"
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [Mapletop] [ In reply to ]
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OK
..but you did not answer the question, thus my reply. You decided to ramble........I have no animosity torward you or your family.....I wish Happy Holidays,,truly
Last edited by: Kenney: Nov 30, 11 17:49
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Re: Michael Weiss Suspended [d-elvis] [ In reply to ]
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d-elvis wrote:
Mapletop wrote:
trigolt wrote:
Mapletop - can you explain the motivation for over-turning the original finding? Don't say "political" because that is not specific. What's the reasoning for this injustice? Who benefits? Does someone have a personal grudge? Give us something.


I'd like to have that answer with certitude, but it resides with a group of individuals in Austria. I can say this however, there is overhwelming political pressure everywhere to root out unlawful conduct in sport, and rightfully so. It comes as no surprise for political motivations to be aligned with economic interests as well, you needn't look too far in our own country to see that. Nevertheless, overzealous motivations are known to blur objectivity and fairness, that's a fact of inescapable reality when it comes to this topic. You will beleive what you want to beleive, that too is an inescapable truth.


I WAS giving you the benefit of the doubt... but with that non-answer to a clear and direct question, take your ball and go home

Jeez d-elvis, you too have a challenge with comprehending the written word? What are we coming to?
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