There is a lot of reason that can get special individual in a sold out ironman race. The first thing you need to know is a WTC event is never ''sold out''. And it s like this in every aspect of life. I personally think a local pro that support a race is a good enough reason to give him a pass in. WTC as done that for years as it s good publicity etc. Well, in most case! seems like this one was a little controversial!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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x2

IMO one of the best things about out sport is everyone is out there at the same time, same conditions, etc. as the top athletes. You can't run out on the court and shoot warm up with LeBron. It is also great for the sport that people can interact with the front of the field. Except for one and dones, most athletes want to improve their times, and finish position. For the most part, you can't just walk up to pro's in other sports to ask how they improve X or their opinion on Y. You, more than most, make yourself easily accessible on the internet and in person.

I watched you come off the bike with a huge lead and got to see you come around on your second lap of the run when I was volunteering at the run special needs. I was stoked to see you out there. Regardless, you raced very well on one of the tougher courses we have and should be proud of the result.

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

I have actually quite a bit of knowledge as to some details in this instance, as well as some conjecture and some opinion. I doubt that the slot was actually "paid" for as to money changing hands into the Ironman coffers. I was approached for a comp entry. To my knowledge it was not obtained before friday at the earliest. The fact that a trademark kit that has been worn for the past number of years in every race was swapped in T2 for a certain other vendor should give people a clue as to what most likely happened. I have not seen any actual admission in the thread of who actually "paid" for the slot.

My OPINION on what was done was that it caused a massive degradation of his and the "pro" field value. What if a few of the local pros decided they also wanted a shot at a local victory in front of the home crowd? Then their friends say "hey; great chance for a training day". Then we have a pro field with no money available and then why would IM offer a pro payday again? My firsthand experience with my business of professional photography is that I have no more "professional" work in the triathlon field, as many of the multitude of people give away their images which are 'good enough" for tri advertisers and pros. What if Venus Williams, Jordan Speith or another pro athlete decided to go back to their college and play a match? Fair? They would NEVER devalue their brand which they work so hard to build.

If a statement was to be made, the best and most appropriate thing would have been to step off the course at the Capitol Square and walk back home. Statement made, integrity intact. I thought it was a poor decision, and did little to enhance value, but that's simply MY opinion.

Base Nutrition paid for his entry.

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As the longest standing hometown Pro in Madison, WI I choose not to race because:

#1 - Ironman races are too hard on my body to just go out and do one.

#2 - It felt like I would be stealing the AG thunder. OF COURSE the Pro's are going to beat the Age Grouper's in an Ironman. Duh!


TG raced because he wanted to win. He did. Is it the same? Of course not.

I disagree with the decision to race and believe those reading this are likely split 50/50 on whether it was a good decision to do so. However, it is too bad he wasn't allowed to celebrate what he technically should have been allowed to do according to the rules and on paper.

Rudy was screwed the most in this case though. He was a legit age grouper. It was over-looked because when he registered last year, he actually held a Pro license. This year he did not have one and has raced AG all year. He was the top amateur at Boulder 70.3. He got zero publicity or recognition for his accomplishment yesterday.

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My personal opinion is that an AG race should NOT allow Pro's to participate at all. Thus the name "Age Group race."

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Professional Triathlete
Owner of Blake Becker Multisport Coaching LLC / Team BBMC
blakebeck@gmail.com
http://www.teambbmc.com

BINGO! ^^

There's more to racing than prize money, especially since the prize money in this sport is so negligible anyway. And winning an ironman - whether it's a JV race or a real one - still nets social media coverage. Look at the front page of this site - they treat winners of the age group ironmans as 'champions' and provide them with interview coverage, etc.

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___________________
Twitter | Kancman | Blog

Never made it past high school biology, but I'd wager that the genetic differences between a man and a woman are orders of magnitude greater than the difference between me and Keinle. But let's agree to disagree on that point.

The AG classification warrants debate. There is no denying that athletic potential globally follows some sort of curve. Key to our debate, though, is that pros suffer the same or similar decay with age as amateurs. Is anyone arguing that Ken Glah (now 51?) shouldn't be allowed to compete in 50-54 because he was once a pro? [That dude rocks....29 consecutive Kona finishes???]

Personally, I think that endurance sports, and especially triathlon have put too much emphasis on age, though. I'd rather see far fewer AGs, something like under 25, 25-39, 40-49, etc. I think that's unlikely, though.

That's where I have an issue, because it's no longer a level playing field. I know it's naive to think that it doesn't happen, but I always imagine that it's the celebrity or CEO that won't affect the results that gets special treatment. Then again, I'd much rather a real athlete get special treatment than a celebrity anyway.

OK, now your logic is really falling apart....you say you don't want 'arbitrary" lines defining classifications, but are ok with some 'arbitrary" lines, as long as they comprise larger age groups?

How is that any less 'arbitrary" then saying "meet these performance standards and you are a professional"?

the point of ANY race classification system is to roughly group competitors of (in theory) similar performance capabilities. Personally, I would prefer a Category system over a AG system for triathlon, but I understand and accept why they do it based on age (just like running races).

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I think he's gunning for Kona consecutive number 32 next month :)

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Team Kiwami
Instagram

Why? The distinction between pro and age group is nonsense anyway. Many pros are basically age groupers anyway - work full time jobs and race on the side. And many age groupers are basically pros - train full time and work on the side.

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___________________
Twitter | Kancman | Blog

No, I think AG is almost as arbitrary as pro vs. amateur, that was my point, and why I think there are too many AGs. The performance vs. age curve is pretty flat for long distance racing over the range of say ~25 - 45 years old, so why not remove that [arbitrary] distinction for those ages?

After ~55, though, it falls off pretty fast, so it again becomes apples and oranges (or men vs. women), and you really need a different category.

The category system works well in cycling because of the group dynamics. Think about this: if drafting didn't exist (imagine no air resistance), wouldn't bike races just be an individual time trial? And if that were the case, what would be the interest of categories (other than handing out more awards)? Cycling categories facilitate group tactics (groups of cyclists with similar abilities, so tactics become critical) and also make racing safer (similar skills and speeds). Neither of these are as important in triathlon.

Sucks you didn't get any recognition Thomas. They should have explained the ramifications of you racing ahead of time (if they had thought about them). At least you would have been able to make a clean decision whether to race or not.

I think the complaint is that he holds a current pro license, where a number have pros sat out a few years before they raced AG. I think a 3 or 4 year exodus would be more than sufficient to erase the argument. Ken is awesome!

So, if you go pro you must take a 3-4 year sabbatical from the sport before you can compete again? That sounds fair. What if someone is fast enough to go pro, acquires all the necessary credentials, but chooses to not accept his pro card. Must that person also not race against age groupers because he similarly is just too fast?

The whole pro vs non-pro distinction is stupid. If someone beats you, they beat you. Who cares about some arbitrary classification.

Thanks for sharing.

I tend to agree with just about everything you said. The only point where we really differ, and it's probably the result of the perspective we each have, given where we "reside" in the triathlon ranks, is that I really don't have a problem with TG, you, or anyone who can mop up the AGers racing on a day like yesterday, except that should you decide to race, you should be held to the same entry requirements that we are, so that everyone enters the starting gate on the same footing with regards to expectations, so to speak.

I think put more simply, & to Thomas's point (& other pros that have been discussing this), if WTC doesn't want Pro's in races that don't have pro fields, then don't let them register. Furthermore, if you are going to let them register, acknowledge their accomplishment rather than act like a 5 yo & ignore that they even raced.

I personally think they don't want pros in races that don't have pro fields but are happy to take anyone's money.

I raced (started but pulled out of) IM Boulder (my hometown race) last month. I signed up when I was an amateur, then got a pro card in May and wanted to "participate." The whole process was odd and I felt awkward. WTC allowed me to do the race but for no prize or award. They NEVER said that I wouldn't be counted in the final results. I was fine with that, but didn't feel like I should finish the race because I was going to get some crap for doing so.

I think that WTC just needs to say no pro athletes allowed if they have paid for the Ironman Pro Membership. If you have a Pro Membership with WTC, you can not race an "age group only" race.

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New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Fair enough. It seems like IM Boulder did it right. They let you race but not for award or prize. Which you understood.

Seems reasonable. Of course if you are a pro then you would not get an award for age group. It is understood when you turn pro correct?
I guess the only reason a pro would enter an age group only race would be for own internal gratification, or an expensive, supported training day, to have other people suffering along with you, or as in Thomas's case because it was his home town race.

Professional athletes may compete in events that are not identified as IRONMAN or IRONMAN 70.3 Professional Qualification and validation events. The policy and procedure is as follows:
1. Entry will be through the general entry process at the current entry price.
2. There is no official Pro/ Elite Division/Wave however, pro athletes must declare their professional status during the registration process.
3. Pro/ elite athletes will race with their respective age-group wave, or in the case of a rolling start, will stage themselves accordingly.
4. Athletes will be competing according to the age-group Rules of the event.
5. Pros are NOT eligible for Age Group awards or qualifying slots and are not included in age group results.
6. If overall awards are presented, they are eligible for these awards.


Here are the rules. It does say that pro athletes need to enter like anyone else.

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New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Class. That what should have happened here. You made the right choice....respect!

The real story here is about Rudy not getting the recognition he should have got, Whether he WAS a pro or not is irrelevant. He was an amatuer on race day.

As an AG who had the dream of winning IMWI overall, I was disappointed in the decision to have TG, both on his end and IRONMANs decision
Whether a sponsor paid for it or not, would they let an AG do that?

Winning an IRONMAN event is about seeing your name on a website or getting the chance shoot the shit in an interview after the race. Winning a IMWI is about all the energy and support you get from the crowds and other ahletes all day long. It's about putting in the time and energy for thebl last 12 months and thinking about that finish line each day. Who cares if you didn't get your 15 secs of fame. The day was about the amatuer races and should have been about Rudy. Edward had an amazing day as well, nothing against him. Rudy was the best on the day. He's gonna go places in the long distance racing scene.

I didn't have a good day out there. Yea I wanted to win so badly but it didn't happen. I was in 3rd (well 2nd) until mile 14 before the wheels fell off. I was honored to be up there with the leaders and was absolutely humbled by the crowd and Mike Reiley at the finish line.

For every 100 good people out there, there's always 1 asshole. Yesterday it was "capain america'. I take no shame in how my day ended but it's sad how others can try to tear you down while sitting on the sidelines. Thank you for the motivation.

Congrats to TG for a great training day, Rudy for the Win and the rest of all the AG on a great day in a great city. Wish things ended differently but I'll learn and come back stronger.

Dissappointment is finite. Hope is infinite.

Sorry for the typos - big thumbs

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Eric Engel | http://www.ironmandiary.com
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Wow, talk about big fish in a little pond syndrome. Looking to "win" a race where the fast people are excluded. What kind of satisfaction is that? Whatever you do don't ever move to Boulder or San Diego. There are a lot of those fast people there who will beat you at little local rinky-dink events.

Pros have two legs, two arms, and two lungs just like you. Their pro status doesn't give them some advantage over you. If you can't beat them, you don't win. And winning where they are excluded is pretty hollow winning.

I was a big fish runner in a little pond in div 3 college. Then Henry Rono's kid appeared from Africa at a neighboring school. It was so unfair. I wasn't the biggest fish anymore. Our division was a little pond. Fast people shouldn't have been allowed.

i think you would be surprised how FEW pros survive solely from prize winnings. i would suggest that MOST are with a full-time job.

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
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