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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I think in this case, most would do the Challenge race in Kona vs say the WTC Ironman race in Maui or back in Oahu.

I'd bet everything I own on the opposite. Did you not learn anything from Penticton? People will follow the Ironman name. Don't be foolish.

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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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I don't disagree. What strikes me is the sense of entitlement that WTC exudes over the pros, while simultaneously treating them like shit. The majority of pros who participate in a WTC event actually pay for the privilege as they recoup less than their annual fee.

Pros should behave professionally. They should have a more common front. It is certainly not WTC's responsibility to get them organized and establish codes of conduct. Frankly, the pros should create a player's union, like other professional sports have, that has this responsibility.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Ellsworth53T wrote:
The athletes are under contract in those leagues and the leagues provide a living wage for the athlete. The triathletes, as far as im aware, are not under any sort of contract with WTC, and WTC certainly doesn't provide a guaranteed wage.

Bingo.

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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [KonaCoffee] [ In reply to ]
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KonaCoffee wrote:
WTC behaves as if this is their company town. It's not, it's ours. The people that live here own it. I used to say that the town was split in 3s regarding this race. 1/3 wanted it in town, 1/3 wanted it to leave and 1/3 doesn't care. Only that last third hasn't changed. I know few people, including triathletes, who want it to stay now. Most now would send Itonman packing given the chance.

I don't know the contractual arrangement WTC has made with your city govt, but, ya gotta wonder, what would be the impact on the IM brand if they had to hold their championship race somewhere else? What if Kona did indeed send WTC packing? Any idea why this hasn't happened yet?

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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Jordan45] [ In reply to ]
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That's a bit harsh. Remember, WTC has essentially created this brand after its initial birth by others and is forging a new path. They are learning and will make mistakes, but for the most part they have done a superb job. They have made Ironman races a place a lot of folks want to be. The quality is generally very high. Kona and Mont-Tremblant are certainly two of the most professionally run sports events on the planet. (How about World Cup soccer in Dubai? Who came up with that brilliant idea?) They do listen, and this letter is a response. But, we should always expect these races to be evolving.

Personally, I think the pros are wage slaves to the system and only a handful make any money to speak of. And the work is EXTREME. I'd much rather watch Carfrae than some overweight footballer with a drug habit. Anyway, the pros need to be paid something commensurate with the work and training involved. I give the pros great credit for doing their part to build the sport. The sport is much better known today than 30 years ago and most of that is due to the Ironman brand. By way of example, I was in DC at a race and afterwards was walking through some of the monuments (WWII) and met a New Zealander. He knew all about the NZ triathletes! He spent 10 minutes filling me in, though I knew most of it. Incredible.

Although I have said my piece about water quality, wave separations and several other issues here, generally I give WTC very high marks.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
Last edited by: Robert: Sep 26, 14 7:57
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [vancity] [ In reply to ]
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We also intend to do more with our live broadcasts of championship races in 2015 and are working to create a more compelling online product that will showcase our athletes and our championship races in a more meaningful way. I want to mention the absence of live online coverage for the Subaru IRONMAN 70.3 World Championship -- our lack of a hosted live show was a mistake, one for which I accept responsibility.

I want to hear more about this part. The lack of live coverage was obviously a calculated move--it's not something he "just forgot about." Along with the twitter censorship, it all seems like an attempt to limit the exposure of individual pros.

In other words, no one can express their own personal image, and everything must be filtered through the carefully groomed image of ironman. Filtered through the rebroadcast editing, filtered through the corporate twitter, etc. WTC is attempting to get all sponsorship dollars directed to the ironman brand, and then wtc can dole out "rewards" to the boys and girls who play along nicely with corporate.

It's another attempt to monopolize the market. Before it was sucking up all competing races. Now it's trying to take all sponsorship dollars from individual athletes.




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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [grindmonkey] [ In reply to ]
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grindmonkey wrote:
... people watch cars drive in a circle for 3+ hours... why not triathlon?

in Nascar you have crashes and then safety laps that brings everyone back together again, which creates excitement. That's not to say you couldn't still have an interesting series of 70.3 races and package each race into a 30 min show. Would the world champion be the one who wins the most points in that series, or do you still have a stand alone WC race? ITU, F1 etc have shown that the former is probably better/fairer.

In general I'm excited they are looking to get more TV coverage. I'm not sure it will ever get massive viewing numbers, but if the UK Super Series (just 4 races) can be packaged up nicely and put on Universal as it has been this year, then surely there is a case for a 70.3 series.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Brilliant riposte!

Parks are there to be used by the public and this is a public use. Bikers and runners should have the use of the streets and sidewalks during Kona week at a minimum and certainly all year, IMHO. Cars are not what Kona is about, as far as I know. Yes, we can be a pain in the ass some times. But drivers are a pain in the ass all the time.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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I would be willing to venture that 10% of the tourists in Kona every year are related to the IMWC. When you factor in fixed vs. variable expenses for a business. That's pretty huge. I think if you compare proportionally the development in Oahu, Kauai and Maui to normalize increases in tourism overall, to Kona over the same period starting when the raced moved there.... I suspect you'll see a clear step shift somewhere in there then a trend that otherwise follows a similar curve. I'd be willing to bet that the net impact from overall worldwide name recognition and marketing value, is probably a 20% bump in the overall economy. I think it's that large. But I'm not a economics or marketing expert.

However, I'm not saying that is necessarily a good thing. Sometimes remaining small is good. Living in a smaller community, I know that if our population for some reason, ever grew over about 20k again, I probably wouldn't want to live here. It would lose a lot of its character and charm and add a lot of traffic and congestion, that another nearby city of 30k+ lacks.


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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [JV99] [ In reply to ]
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JV99 wrote:
Tri-Banter wrote:
My school district has a code of conduct for how it's staff can/ can't behave on social media. Violations can results in termination. My guess is that most professional positions have similar stipulations in their terms for employment. I'm not sure why anyone expects pro triathletes to have a free pass.


I think we have differing definitions of what entails "employement".

What is employement? Sorry - just had to bust chops a bit.

You are correct. These people are not "employed" by WTC. WTC is a corporation that puts on events that people (pro or not) CHOOSE to participate in. If you want to be a Pro triathlete then WTC races are one of the few OPTIONS they have to earn their wage. If WTC puts in place social media guidelines for people who want to race as a pro under their code of conduct, then so be it. If you want to speak out on social media about WTC, fine. You aren't being censored. You have every right to do it. And WTC has every right to decide whether or not that person should continue to compete as a pro in their events. The Pro's apply for membership, are accepted in under this code of conduct, and if they misstep, then they are accountable for their actions (copied a section of the code of conduct below and bolded the relevant sections). Its similar to the people who work as independent contractors for me. I'll assign you to a project, but if you blasted my company on Facebook, twitter, etc you would never be contracted to another project for me again. Ever.

Also - they are providing an outlet for Pros to dissent with WTC. Contact Rappstar, or one of the other representatives (similar to having a union rep). If I recall correctly, there was a recent outburst on the twitters where a Female Pro called out Messick for an issue that the Pro reps had already been in contact with him with and they had resolved. The reality is, WTC is something the Pro triathletes need. And WTC needs the Pros to continue to build its brand. Its not that much to ask that they keep their comments in check and try to work it internally before taking it to social media. All of us AG'ers can continue to blast away about how screwed up the organization is.

http://www.ironman.com/...t.aspx#axzz3EMLOQI7B

The following are examples of unacceptable behavior by current IRONMAN Professional Members that will result in penalties.

I. Audible and visible displays of obscenity and anger.

  • Heated public disagreements with officials, negative comments to or about volunteers or any other event personnel during the staging of an event.
  • Displays of anger and displeasure for reasons personal or race related where members of the public (including athletes, spectators and the media) are present in any capacity.
  • Publicly questioning or criticizing a race official or official decision, ruling or penalty except through the accepted procedure in an official hearing or inquiry.



II. Abuse (physical, verbal, threatening or slanderous) of Race Officials, volunteers, fellow competitors and any event personnel.

  • Any intentional obstruction of a fellow athlete.
  • Improper contact or arguments with volunteers.
  • Improper or insulting personal communication with officials outside accepted channels of procedure.



III. Unprofessional public communications in person or via any media dialogue.

  • Slanderous comments with racial, cultural or sexual overtones regarding event officials, event personnel or fellow athletes.
  • Damaging and false commentary of an event and any related personnel.
  • Any public comment or discussion regarding a specific drafting or blocking penalty is a violation. Included are comments or discussion at the race venue or to the media.



IV. Blatant and repeated violations of event procedures.

  • Consistent untimely requests for event entries beyond posted deadlines.
  • Failure to attend pre- race mandatory briefing without notifying Pro Registration Department of inability to attend.
  • Failure to notify event or relevant departments of withdrawal from an event.



Sanctions
Athletes whose conduct is considered contrary to this Code is subject to penalties, including but not limited to one or more of the following:

  • Letter of reprimand.
  • Disqualification from event.
  • Loss of 500 earned qualifying points from any points ranking in which the Athlete is ranked.
  • Temporary suspension from WTC events—three months.
  • Permanent suspension from WTC events.


Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...t.aspx#ixzz3EQcDK55P
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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GMAN19030 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
I think in this case, most would do the Challenge race in Kona vs say the WTC Ironman race in Maui or back in Oahu.


I'd bet everything I own on the opposite. Did you not learn anything from Penticton? People will follow the Ironman name. Don't be foolish.


The argument could be made that you did not learn anything from Roth. If Kona wants to hold the race without WTC, Kona can, and could still call it the world championship, and could invite winners from IM races and Challenge/Rev races, and Hits races, and anyone from any races, and probably make a lot more money. Then, WTC would really be SOL because the allure of Ironman would be gone. In many ways Kona has a poison pill that could tremendously damage the IM brand.

Edit to add:
TBT, triathlon is a tiny, tiny business, just scraping by, so while Kona could, in theory get further into the triathlon business, and could in theory put the hurt on the WTC, the relationship as it stands is probably the best way forward. It doesn't seem hugely broken.
Last edited by: DamonHenry: Sep 26, 14 6:57
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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GMAN19030 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
I think in this case, most would do the Challenge race in Kona vs say the WTC Ironman race in Maui or back in Oahu.


I'd bet everything I own on the opposite. Did you not learn anything from Penticton? People will follow the Ironman name. Don't be foolish.

We're reaching a tipping point, especially in North America.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [KonaCoffee] [ In reply to ]
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This is an article on the economic effect that IM- Kona has on the local economy.

http://www.kpua.net/focus10132003.php

A Department of Business Economic Development and Tourism study concluded that $14.9 million is pumped in to the island economy over Ironman race dates. Utilizing known multiplier effects, that number mushrooms to more than $26 million in total sales resulting in $2.5 million in tax revenues alone...

--------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by: bhc: Sep 26, 14 6:53
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [bhc] [ In reply to ]
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Those numbers are 10 years old, so it's either gotten bigger or smaller, but it's unlikely still the same number.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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Fred, the big difference between Kona and IMLP is that Lake Placid actually would suffer financially as they are a small "Winter" town that thrives during ski season. Summer was not a huge season for them before Ironman came into town and turned it into THE place to be for summertime fitness.

Kona is a tourist attraction even without Ironman and will survive just fine. That's a guess as the worl economy has changed a lot over the years and Ironman has been a factor for a lot of it, but I think Kona would do VERY well without Ironman. I don't think Lake Placid would do as well and would gradually be less of a summer town over the years. Yes, LP has other events, mostly with the major horse show in June/July and rowing, but the amount of athletes that go there to bike and run from May to July is staggering. If there is no IMLP, then Lake George NY becomes a better summer town to train in.

I will likely never make it to Kona to race IM, I would have liked to, but I am equally fascinated to go there for a family vacation, maybe even more so than racing there.

As for this new turn of corporate events, Dev is right, censorship sucks, but this isn't really censorship. This is the same as an employer asking that no one speaks out against the company without talking to the company rep first. If they still want to speak out against the company, go ahead, but you might not be working for the company anymore. There are other companies to go work for.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [kcb203] [ In reply to ]
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kcb203 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Just wait until you get older. These 5 to 10 impacted folks might be you.


.


The 80+ mens group in 2011 may have been the most exciting and close age-group race in Kona. These guys were racing neck and neck until the very end.

Men 80 & Over Awards
Place Bla Time Numb Lname Fname Cnt Rep Swim Tr1 Bike Tr2 Run
===== === ======== ==== ========================== === === ======= ======= ======== ======= ========
1 16:45:55 181 Hollander, Lew USA USA 1:57:44 8:59 7:36:31 6:00 6:56:43
2 16:50:43 156 Cokan, France USA SLO 2:08:16 8:56 7:42:22 10:24 6:40:47
3 16:51:30 155 Roberts, Lyle USA USA 1:57:28 6:34 8:03:18 7:03 6:37:10

She has finished the last 2 years over 16:45 in the female.

So yep, some older AG's would just go bye bye


Anderson, Harriet USA 1 525 1887 02:10:18 07:37:50 06:49:36 16:59:19 5000

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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:
This has nothing to do with "the integrity of the women's race." The pro women had a 25-minute start on the age groupers for years, and it never affected the cut-off times. This is a result of splitting the male and female AG starts, which as we've already discussed was done so WTC could stuff more age groupers into the race and make more money. Make it a mass AG start again, and the cut-off could still be 17:00.

This may have been commented on before my post. But, 2013 was the first year that there was a 25 minute separation between the women pros and age groupers. This year it is at 20 minutes. Depending on how you look at it (I am married to a female pro who has raced Kona) the "integrity of the women's race" changes with the proximity to the male pros and age groupers. It changes because the faster women swimmers get mixed in with the 2nd pro male pack OR the slower women get mixed up with the faster age grouper swimmers. I 'think' that the thought would be that greater separation between women/male pros and pro women and age group men will make the women pro race more fair.


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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [bhc] [ In reply to ]
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bhc wrote:
This is an article on the economic effect that IM- Kona has on the local economy.

http://www.kpua.net/focus10132003.php

A Department of Business Economic Development and Tourism study concluded that $14.9 million is pumped in to the island economy over Ironman race dates. Utilizing known multiplier effects, that number mushrooms to more than $26 million in total sales resulting in $2.5 million in tax revenues alone...

I have no doubt that Kona has a huge, local economic impact, and that the Chamber, city council, and all powers-that-be locally are hugely supportive of WTC and keeping the event in town.

With that said, these economic impact studies are always hugely exaggerated, and the "multiplier effect" often used to make the numbers sound enormous are a farce. Frankly, $14.9m for Kona does not strike me as unreasonable considering the huge volume of non-athlete vendors and support that come for this prestigious event, so this particular study may have some grounding in reality, but these studies generally need to be drilled into to reveal the overly optimistic assumptions. I remember for IMNYC the economic impact pitched locally worked out to $14,000 per athlete, a number very hard to justify by any optimistic projections of affluent athlete spending or using "multiplier effect".
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Robert wrote:
That's a bit harsh. Remember, WTC has essentially created this brand after its initial birth by others and is forging a new path. They are learning and will make mistakes, but for the most part they have done a superb job. They have made Ironman races a place a lot of folks want to be. The quality is generally very high. Kona and Mont-Tremblant are certainly two of the most professionally run sports events on the planet. (How about World Cup soccer in Dubai? Who came up with that brilliant idea?) They do listen, and this letter is a response. But, we should always expect these races to be evolving.

Personally, I think the pros are wage slaves to the system and only a handful make any money to speak of. And the work is EXTREME. I'd much rather watch Carfrae than some overweight footballer with a drug habit. Anyway, the pros need to be paid something commensurate with the work and training involved. I give the pros great credit for doing their part to build the sport. The sport is much better known today than 30 years ago and most of that is due to the Ironman brand. By way of example, I was in DC at a race and afterwards was walking through some of the monuments (WWII) and met a New Zealander. He new all about the NZ triathletes! He spent 10 minutes filling me in, though I knew most of it. Incredible.

Although I have said my piece about water quality, wave separations and several other issues here, generally I give WTC very high marks.

-Robert

I disagree with the statement I have bolded. Just because they are doing something difficult doesn't mean they should be compensated for it. They need to show they bring value & money to an organization to get paid.

I keep reading about people bitching about WTC, yet they seem to continue to sign up for and race their events. Now that Challenge & Rev3 have merged there seems to be a legitimate opportunity for the pros to unify and increase their value, but I haven't seen much discussion about that. The merger seems like it creates the perfect opportunity for the pros to work with Challenge to create some sort of pro series and pro purse. They should be working together to figure out how to drive attention and publicity to it. As for the excuse about the sponsors balking about no WTC events, show them the value of this venture and race series.

Money Talks and the pros have not shown what they contribute to the bottom line.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [KonaCoffee] [ In reply to ]
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KonaCoffee wrote:
The 16:45 change actually is nothing more than a stupid solution to a non-existent problem which has beome rather typical of WTC under its current management.

But since you asked here you ho:

They've over stayed their welcome by many years. They take resources from our community and expect to be thanked.

They get special priveleges in conducting their for profit business on our state owned pier and state owned ocean. Guess what? That's not allowed! No other organization charging any fee for any reason whatsoever is allowed to use our pier or state beach access to the ocean unless they're boating related businesses with a permit. That includes all the tri camps, all the swim clinics, local triathlon clubs, and other for profit but smaller races -- all of them. Only WTC Gets away with this. It's been enforced against everyone except WTC. Enforce it against them as well. Or ate they just special and entitled like their athletes of late?

They seriously restrict travel over a large swath of our island on race day. In some places for well over 24 hours.

Their customers have become increasingly rude to locals over the last 5 years in particular.. They run red lights on their bycycles, they don't bother to stop at stop signs, they do more than encroach on the traffic lanes -- they flat out ride in large groups well inside traffic lanes. Somebody is s going to get killed and my sympathy is almost certainly going to be with the hapless driver.

And it's not just bikers. Every year I see numerous instances of runners stopping traffic during rush hour so they don't have to stop and wait for the walk sign during their runs. It's beyond ignorance, it intentional. Never ever see that outside of this time of the year.

WTC pays lip service to the safety issues. And it gets worse every year.

And then there's the travesty of how locals can't even race in the only long course triathlon here without going into the lottery. Big Island residents used to at least be able to compete for our slots. That was taken away as well. Now we get to put our names in a hat instead.

And every year the locals have to put up with way too many of the 1800+ athletes telling us how we ought to do things in Hawaii. And almost none of them have the slightest respect for the host culture.

Then there's the way you could say WTC treated a nice little 70.3 race out here by not just eliminating any pro purse for a June race but eliminating all 70.3 Championship points for the pros.

WTC behaves as if this is their company town. It's not, it's ours. The people that live here own it. I used to say that the town was split in 3s regarding this race. 1/3 wanted it in town, 1/3 wanted it to leave and 1/3 doesn't care. Only that last third hasn't changed. I know few people, including triathletes, who want it to stay now. Most now would send Itonman packing given the chance.


That's the short list.

To the special privileges beef. I suspect the special privileges that WTC gets has much more to do with the economic benefit of the race to the town and state than it does to any sort of bowing down to WTC. None of the other organizations (tri-clubs, swim clinics, not for profits, etc) likely bring much financial benefit to the community and as such are not given special dispensation. It would be nice if the state owned pier would increase access to the other, smaller, organizations because it is the right thing to do, not decrease access for WTC.

Restrict travel on the island. Can't argue there. every place that holds a major marathon, triathlon, bike race, etc has to do the same to its citizenry. It is up to the citizens (and their leaders) to decide whether the benefit of the event outweighs the negative for the community.

Rude customers. I won't argue this. I would implore triathletes to respect the island, its residents and its culture. If we want the island to continue to be our host, we need to be good guests. I will say that in my one trip to Kona (2011) I was so happy to be there that I could barely contain my enthusiasm. I attempted to be happy, gracious and polite to everyone and believe that I achieved my goal. During my ten days in Kona I had two interactions with locals who spontaneously, unprovoked, (at least by me-I hope) told me that I, and all of the other triathletes, were not welcome there. It was shocking and certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. Kona is the one race that I have travelled to that I really felt unwelcomed by the locals. Contrast that with Mont Tremblant, where nearly everyone is enthusiastically embracing the triathlon in their community. Perhaps they are too early in the WTC cycle to have tired of the race, or perhaps they just recognize what an economic boon the race is to the area.

I am sorry if we don't respect the host culture. This is an individual and corporate issue. I am constantly amazed at how badly many people treat others so I am not surprised that there is a problem with courtesy. Maybe WTC needs make this a focus and spend a significant amount of time in prerace emails and communications to educate the athletes about respecting the culture. It is unfortunate that grown people need to be told how to behave respectfully and appropriately.

As far as Kona goes, as a stand alone destination, it really isn't that great of a place to visit. Without the IM there, I would never go there to visit (please don't get all upset, people don't come to visit my hometown either). Maybe the people of Kona and the surrounding area would be fine with that but without the race in October I suspect the community would lose a significant source of its annual revenue. Again, maybe the people would rather have it that way. There are other towns on the island that are existing OK with out a major race. Perhaps Kona would prefer that but be careful what you wish for.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [prattzc] [ In reply to ]
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prattzc wrote:
As for this new turn of corporate events, Dev is right, censorship sucks, but this isn't really censorship. This is the same as an employer asking that no one speaks out against the company without talking to the company rep first. If they still want to speak out against the company, go ahead, but you might not be working for the company anymore. There are other companies to go work for.

I think you and Dev have it backwards. WTC is not the employer of pros; pros are customers of wtc. Pros pay to race, just like you and I; ~1000 of them pay $800/year to race ironmans and be eligible for prize purses. I'd guess fewer than a 100 make back their $800/year in prizes. Which means if the other 900 choose to not be customers, wtc is out $700k/year, or a decent chunk of their annual prize purse.

Would you as a customer enter a race and sign a consent agreement saying you wouldn't twitter bad things about wtc? Or what if that stipulation was only imposed on a certain subset of customers--say people in the 25-29 age group? Would you stand up for them out of principles of fairness against a monopolistic corporation trying to hush dissent? Or would you say, "the free market rules, they can choose to race or not"?




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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Ellsworth53T wrote:
wow, none of them would officially finish under the 16:45 rule. I didn't realize that. this makes that 15 minutes a bigger deal to me when previously i had shrugged it off. thats effectively eliminating that age group and presumable the women's as well.

I also think those 5-10 men & women will find a way to find 5 minutes and all finish in 16:40-16:45. I think namely, they will bike a little faster, as that's where they have to largest margin of performance. I think they have more fundamental limits on the swim and run. If you can work on their bike positions a little (assuming their shoulders can tolerate more weight on them)... make sure they have a very deliberate power plan (I bet the VI of all those guys is over 1.10 because they spend so much time at 0 watts), then light a fire under their ass in transition... they can find 5 minutes pretty easy.... because quite frankly...they will do what they have to to finish, and win. Not criticizing at all, just pointing out where they have time to gain, in the same place most AG athletes can gain time. Same way I know I can still gain time looking at my own performance.

Look at 75-79 males, Transition times ranged from about 16-30 minutes. the 2nd place guy nearly won the race in transition despite being about 50 minutes behind out of the water. Harriet Anderson only spend 20 minutes in transition, so that's not too bad. She could find 5 minutes there looking at the male times. I'd guess that a relatively quick change just walking the whole thing takes 12-15 minutes if you limit how long you stay seated.


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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [prattzc] [ In reply to ]
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prattzc wrote:
Fred, the big difference between Kona and IMLP is that Lake Placid actually would suffer financially as they are a small "Winter" town that thrives during ski season. Summer was not a huge season for them before Ironman came into town and turned it into THE place to be for summertime fitness.

Kona is a tourist attraction even without Ironman and will survive just fine. That's a guess as the worl economy has changed a lot over the years and Ironman has been a factor for a lot of it, but I think Kona would do VERY well without Ironman. I don't think Lake Placid would do as well and would gradually be less of a summer town over the years. Yes, LP has other events, mostly with the major horse show in June/July and rowing, but the amount of athletes that go there to bike and run from May to July is staggering. If there is no IMLP, then Lake George NY becomes a better summer town to train in.

I will likely never make it to Kona to race IM, I would have liked to, but I am equally fascinated to go there for a family vacation, maybe even more so than racing there.

As for this new turn of corporate events, Dev is right, censorship sucks, but this isn't really censorship. This is the same as an employer asking that no one speaks out against the company without talking to the company rep first. If they still want to speak out against the company, go ahead, but you might not be working for the company anymore. There are other companies to go work for.

I'm not so sure. There are literally hundreds, probably thousands of beach destinations that are nicer than Kona. Kona proper just isn't that nice. Some of the resort areas outside of Kona are pretty fantastic but without the IM as its source of free marketing it is unlikely that many folks would be rushing to vacation in Kona. Likely most would have never even heard of it.

Again. Loved my time there. I would never plan a vacation there unless it involved some important race in October.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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But the pro's are being paid by WTC, if they place. Pro's are being used like an ad and marketing, to bring in customers (age groupers).
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [andrewnova] [ In reply to ]
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You don't think the pros bring value to WTC and/ triathlon?

Having pros race says: "This sport is the real deal; it's very hard; it's something you might be able to do. We will show you what the best humans can do." Triathlon has democratic appeal, traditional roots in three sports, and an over-all healthy lifestyle appeal. That's why Carfrae and chocolate milk are so great together. (I drink soy, but, never mind....)

I started in triathlon because it was the sort of off-beat thing in the early '80's I would do, and not because of the pros. But now, it is very interesting to watch the pros, see what they do and how they do it, and to compare performances (purely as a entertainment, and not because I think I can get close to their performances). It's a lot like bike racing without the drugs, IMHO. Those pros get millions.... Why shouldn't Jordan Rapp be making millions?

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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