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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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Here's my issue and where I think TRS and I disagree. The higher prizes cant simply come from the race organizers. That's silly to think WTC should just pay out more because they are making money. WTC will pay out more when/if they get a media/tv agreement and more advertising dollars come in. WTC can't even support a full fledged pro circuit on their own, neither could Rev3, Challenge, etc. There is no race organizations that will pay pros more because it should occur. That will only ever happen when/if more media adverstising dollars come into the sport.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [kny] [ In reply to ]
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kny wrote:
bhc wrote:
This is an article on the economic effect that IM- Kona has on the local economy.

http://www.kpua.net/focus10132003.php

A Department of Business Economic Development and Tourism study concluded that $14.9 million is pumped in to the island economy over Ironman race dates. Utilizing known multiplier effects, that number mushrooms to more than $26 million in total sales resulting in $2.5 million in tax revenues alone...


I have no doubt that Kona has a huge, local economic impact, and that the Chamber, city council, and all powers-that-be locally are hugely supportive of WTC and keeping the event in town.

With that said, these economic impact studies are always hugely exaggerated, and the "multiplier effect" often used to make the numbers sound enormous are a farce. Frankly, $14.9m for Kona does not strike me as unreasonable considering the huge volume of non-athlete vendors and support that come for this prestigious event, so this particular study may have some grounding in reality, but these studies generally need to be drilled into to reveal the overly optimistic assumptions. I remember for IMNYC the economic impact pitched locally worked out to $14,000 per athlete, a number very hard to justify by any optimistic projections of affluent athlete spending or using "multiplier effect".


If anything, I think the numbers stated above in the econ study are undervalued. They only represent the impact during race week. KonaCoffee pointed out in the earlier post about the training groups and athletes that come to Kona to train during weeks the race isn't happening. Add in the tourism generated by the Kona name recognition via the race, I think that the impact of the race could greatly exceed the number quoted.

My question to KonaCoffee is can you really afford to have WTC leave?
Based on this article from 2010, I'm not quite sure you are seeing the big picture. No where in your post did you mention the amount of $ that has been donated to local charities, nor did you consider the economic impact:
According to HI tourism statistics - For the past two years, Kona has averaged ~91k airline visitors in the month of Oct - Ranking it the 8th most popular month of the year to visit Kona. Take away an average of ~10,000 people that attend the race (athletes, family, sponsors, etc) and Oct suddenly loses 11% of it's visitors and becomes the least most visited month of the year.

Additionally, due to the seasonality of the the tourism (Sept - 12th most popular, Oct 8th, Nov 10th), it is logical that hotels and businesses would need to hire temporary help to accommodate the influx of people for the Ironman. Do you care that you are taking jobs away from locals? What about telling local businesses that because you don't like WTC, you are going to make Sept and Oct the least most popular months to visit and remove ~$20 - $25M from the area.

I'm sorry, but you all are in the tourism business...you don't bite the hand that feeds you. I get that you are frustrated with the actions of few, but that frustration is not worth losing that much money. If you aren't happy about the "infractions" of bikers, runners, etc - tell your local police to do a better job of upholding the current laws. Word will get around quickly. Finally, I do think that you have a valid point with your frustration on visitors not respecting the local culture. However, that is not unique to Kona...every tourism center goes through this. The best way to correct the behavior is to educate and hope for the best...not chastise.

**Edit - I saw your other post the previous page and I think that you did end up addressing some of what I wrote above. Additionally, it seems like you did cool down a bit from your original post. My post wasn't mean to start a shoving match, but to someone who grew up on an island that is heavily reliant on tourism, it gets under my skin to hear things in the vain of "Tourists Suck"**
Last edited by: Twotter: Sep 26, 14 11:39
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [-BrandonMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
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-BrandonMarshTX wrote:
And you're both forgetting the first part of that amendment about a 'well regulated militia'. Interpretations abound, but it's mainly the 2nd 1/2 that people cite.

I think the whole "militia" thing has been hashed out with Heller and McDonald.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [-BrandonMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
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-BrandonMarshTX wrote:
craigj532 wrote:

This has nothing to do with "the integrity of the women's race." The pro women had a 25-minute start on the age groupers for years, and it never affected the cut-off times. This is a result of splitting the male and female AG starts, which as we've already discussed was done so WTC could stuff more age groupers into the race and make more money. Make it a mass AG start again, and the cut-off could still be 17:00.


This may have been commented on before my post. But, 2013 was the first year that there was a 25 minute separation between the women pros and age groupers. This year it is at 20 minutes. Depending on how you look at it (I am married to a female pro who has raced Kona) the "integrity of the women's race" changes with the proximity to the male pros and age groupers. It changes because the faster women swimmers get mixed in with the 2nd pro male pack OR the slower women get mixed up with the faster age grouper swimmers. I 'think' that the thought would be that greater separation between women/male pros and pro women and age group men will make the women pro race more fair.

No, that's not what I'm saying. There's been the 25-minute separation between the pro females and the AG race before, and it never necessitated dropping the AG cut-off to 16:45. The only reason the female/AG separation was reduced to 20 minutes this year was because WTC decided to split the AG start into two male/female AG waves. They could keep the 17:00 cut-off, even with a 25-minute female pro/AG gap, if they just eliminated the split AG start. A split start, by the way, that nobody was really asking for and which was done only so that they could eventually cram more people into the race.

What WTC is doing is messing with the race of the 1800+ age group athletes that pay their bills to fix an non-existent problem that, at most, affects 35 female pros.

Start the male pros at 6:30, the female pros at 6:35, and all the age group athletes at 7:00. Just like last year. Done. I just fixed the "problem" and restored integrity to the race.

I'm sorry, I just read this as a giant "f-you" to people like Lew Hollander, Madonna Buder, Harriet Anderson, Karen Aydelot, Rick and Dick Hoyt, etc. Ironman has been happy to use these people as marketing fodder for years in their coverage of the race, and now they're basically eliminating them from contention.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
Here's my issue and where I think TRS and I disagree. The higher prizes cant simply come from the race organizers. That's silly to think WTC should just pay out more because they are making money. WTC will pay out more when/if they get a media/tv agreement and more advertising dollars come in. WTC can't even support a full fledged pro circuit on their own, neither could Rev3, Challenge, etc. There is no race organizations that will pay pros more because it should occur. That will only ever happen when/if more media adverstising dollars come into the sport.

I'm not arguing that the extra money should simply come out of wtc's existing coffers. But they are ones best positioned to raise the money from sponsors/television/media. If fans pressure for more pay, wtc can figure out how to get the funds to pay for it.




The Age Group Home on Facebook
Twitter jokes
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [oceanswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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oceanswimmer wrote:
So how exactly do they expect their pro athletes to "volunteer"?

WTC will provide both financial and logistical support for the volunteer efforts. Things like travel, getting posters printed, etc. WTC is willing to help with that and also to help find opportunities where the event organizer would also help in this regard. Athletes will not be expected to "foot the bill" for volunteer efforts; they are expected to give their time.

A lot has been made about how WTC needs to do more "athlete development." I agree. But I don't think that it should be racing-type development. It should be "how to be more professional" development. That's what this is.

I think it's a huge win for pros. This is exactly the sort of thing that is a very clear value add to sponsors. Much more clear than a race result...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
oceanswimmer wrote:
So how exactly do they expect their pro athletes to "volunteer"?


WTC will provide both financial and logistical support for the volunteer efforts. Things like travel, getting posters printed, etc. WTC is willing to help with that and also to help find opportunities where the event organizer would also help in this regard. Athletes will not be expected to "foot the bill" for volunteer efforts; they are expected to give their time.

A lot has been made about how WTC needs to do more "athlete development." I agree. But I don't think that it should be racing-type development. It should be "how to be more professional" development. That's what this is.

I think it's a huge win for pros. This is exactly the sort of thing that is a very clear value add to sponsors. Much more clear than a race result...

I agree this can be a good for athlete development, and I've suggested similar things myself. But the devil is in the details. My concern is that wtc will try to get all sponsorship dollars flowing into this program, and away from sponsors working with individual athletes. Then wtc can distribute those dollars as it sees fit to the pros it most favors.

Is that a far stretch from current reality and stated intent? Maybe. But wtc has exhibited its monopolistic tendencies with races. I have every reason to think it will try the same with sponsor dollars.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [kny] [ In reply to ]
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The year I was in Hawaii to do the race ( I ended up not racing ), I had no less than 6 people come to Hawaii to watch, they stayed for 10 days to two weeks and went on all sorts of excursions, restaurants, bars, had to find places to stay. Personally I spent close to $3500 for the entire trip, and that was in 2006, before flights, so I don't think you can underestimate the economic impact the race brings to Kona.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Ellsworth53T] [ In reply to ]
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Ellsworth53T wrote:
The athletes are under contract in those leagues and the leagues provide a living wage for the athlete. The triathletes, as far as im aware, are not under any sort of contract with WTC, and WTC certainly doesn't provide a guaranteed wage.

Any pro athlete who holds a WTC pro membership license is under contract. In exchange for a fixed yearly fee, each athlete is free to race as many WTC events as they wish, earn prize money, etc. In exchange, they agree to abide by a code of conduct, be available for drug testing, and some other pretty basic things you'd expect.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev,
Would this be a crazy idea for WTC to consider?

Why not have WTC extend 1 year contracts to the top 25 male & female finishing pro's who in Kona. The contract would run from October 2014-2015 for example.

The contract would offer each pro a $50,000 salary paid in 24 payments over the course of the year (pay check twice a month). Total cost to WTC if they offered that to 50 pro's would be $2.5 Million.

The contract signing would be optional for the pro, because I am sure WTC would only want these athletes racing WTC events. The athlete would still be able to seek out their own sponsorship to help add to their personal income and they would still be eligible to win prize money at WTC races.

The $50,000 dollars would provide these pro's with a stable salary for one year that most should be able to live on and it would be enough to get them to their races. I actually think a lot of these athletes would be making more money than the $50,000, but it might give some of the lower end pro's a little more stability to either help them develop more or make it another year as a pro.

WTC would be able to do several things to strengthen their brand.

1. Lock up the best 25 male and 25 female athletes to only race their events for one year.
2. In the contract the athlete signs, they could require these athletes promote the IM Brand through different options such as charity work, post race events with pros, etc.
3. Better control public communication on social media (facebook, twitter, etc)
4. Use this stable to athletes to have better racing the pro events that pay. For example in his e-mail he mentions 6 races counting for KPR points, imagine only having to do 6 races a year at most with it being a mix of 5150's, 70.3's & 140.6. Longer term (several years from now) I could see there being 4-6 races that are at least similar to 70.3 World Championship followings in terms of competition or even better competition such as what takes place at Kona. This would create a better marketing opportunity for WTC, the possibility of having some 70.3's televised.
5. Under this situation, these athletes could represent the pro's to be "one voice" that WTC interacts with to get feedback, etc.
6. WTC could set a code of conduct for what it expects from "their paid pro's". I read a lot of commentary on here about pro's not acting like professionals, etc. WTC could establish and set standards. This would over time strengthen WTC's brand.
7. Improve competition even more, pro's on the outside of the 25 could become very motivated to make it to Kona and to get their shot at having a $50,000 salary and potentially quit their job for one year and see how they could really do living as a full time pro.

This would require an upfront investment by WTC, but I think in the long term. If they could develop a professional racing event that draws more attention/excitement due better competition there should be value added to the brand. I guess the real question is how long is the payback period and what kind of return on investment will WTC get?

Just curious what you or some others might think of this idea Dev?

I know there would also be some downside, which I am sure I am about to hear about.

1 possible upside for the pro's is that they might be able to use this as an opportunity to create a professional triathlete's association much like the NFL's player association. To an extent they could unionize to negotiate better terms for the pro's.

Anyway just an idea.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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I like that they are offering this to the pros, but I'll be curious how much "athlete development" comes from this. With the new structure of money, it's already going to be structured for the better athletes to race and win money, so will it simply be those same athletes getting most of the "volunteer" perks? If a young pro I used to coach, who just did a 70.3 with Rapp applies and goes against Andy Potts, who's IM going to pick? Or are they going to give money out to every pro that applies to volunteer? Of course they'll want to make posters of Rapp, Crowie, Potts vs the 737th ranked pro. So is this just going to be another revenue where the rich get richer, or will this be free for any and every pro to truly take advantage of.

ETA: I guess the response will be, any pro will be given the opportunity to directly network sponsor(s), and that should be payment enough in exchange for the volunteer services they will provide. I think it's great what they are doing with many of these points. I just hope they actually respect the pros enough to make it a good working relationship. I think WTC is great for getting lots of people into the sport, and helps a lot of people, but I also know they are out to make money first and foremost. So, there are some things I'm still skeptical about. With the "censorship", does that mean they are going to actually care to listen to the pros and for a good working relationship? All I envision is the discussions I've had about drafting, is more of a lip service. I hope this really does work for both parties.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: BDoughtie: Sep 26, 14 12:20
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [cam2win] [ In reply to ]
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A few questions.

IF WTC spent $2.5mil on those 50 athletes, then I assume all prize money would go away at races. No way they would spend $2.5mil on those 50 pros and then add in another $1.6mil in prize money. So does the points structure just stay the same minus the prize money at each event? It would make for one hell of a race to make the top 25 in Kona each year, that's for sure.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
oceanswimmer wrote:
So how exactly do they expect their pro athletes to "volunteer"?


WTC will provide both financial and logistical support for the volunteer efforts. Things like travel, getting posters printed, etc. WTC is willing to help with that and also to help find opportunities where the event organizer would also help in this regard. Athletes will not be expected to "foot the bill" for volunteer efforts; they are expected to give their time.

A lot has been made about how WTC needs to do more "athlete development." I agree. But I don't think that it should be racing-type development. It should be "how to be more professional" development. That's what this is.

I think it's a huge win for pros. This is exactly the sort of thing that is a very clear value add to sponsors. Much more clear than a race result...

Clear value add to who's sponsors? WTC's?

BTW, it's not volunteering if it's forced.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Bootlegger Ben] [ In reply to ]
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And in Heller, Justice Scalia said this (citations removed):

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment , nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.
We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those “in common use at the time.” We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.”

So even Scalia (not exactly a squishy liberal) acknowledges that the right set forth in the Second Amendment can be significantly "infringed."
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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Furious D wrote:
But at the same time the WTC has come to them basically saying - 'hey things between us have sucked and we are admitting that. Here's what we are trying to do to improve things for you. So instead of getting in social media pissing matches, lets work it out internally. If you disagree with what we are doing to make things better, or have other concerns, please go through these people or come to me, the CEO directly. Just please don't go out and fight this battle on social media'.

Except that they (WTC) have not done anything to engender trust. Not many feel they can talk directly to them. And really not many at all in the pro field like Jordan or Crowie as ambassadors. Neither are approachable and both have sycophantic tendencies to WTC. Some of us are trying to get PROTA going again and to have a real outside representation body. On the con call in August Andrew pleaded for an outside group that they could work with.

________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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After reading the letter I was pretty shocked that the total prize money was only $1.6mm for the year. I'm not sure what WTC costs look like, but it looks like AZ 2014 participant list was about 1200 people each paying say $700. So that's $840,000 of revenue for Arizona and there's 80 races each year.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [cam2win] [ In reply to ]
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cam2win wrote:
Dev,
Would this be a crazy idea for WTC to consider?

Why not have WTC extend 1 year contracts to the top 25 male & female finishing pro's who in Kona. The contract would run from October 2014-2015 for example.

The contract would offer each pro a $50,000 salary paid in 24 payments over the course of the year (pay check twice a month). Total cost to WTC if they offered that to 50 pro's would be $2.5 Million.

The contract signing would be optional for the pro, because I am sure WTC would only want these athletes racing WTC events. The athlete would still be able to seek out their own sponsorship to help add to their personal income and they would still be eligible to win prize money at WTC races.

The $50,000 dollars would provide these pro's with a stable salary for one year that most should be able to live on and it would be enough to get them to their races. I actually think a lot of these athletes would be making more money than the $50,000, but it might give some of the lower end pro's a little more stability to either help them develop more or make it another year as a pro.

WTC would be able to do several things to strengthen their brand.

1. Lock up the best 25 male and 25 female athletes to only race their events for one year.
2. In the contract the athlete signs, they could require these athletes promote the IM Brand through different options such as charity work, post race events with pros, etc.
3. Better control public communication on social media (facebook, twitter, etc)
4. Use this stable to athletes to have better racing the pro events that pay. For example in his e-mail he mentions 6 races counting for KPR points, imagine only having to do 6 races a year at most with it being a mix of 5150's, 70.3's & 140.6. Longer term (several years from now) I could see there being 4-6 races that are at least similar to 70.3 World Championship followings in terms of competition or even better competition such as what takes place at Kona. This would create a better marketing opportunity for WTC, the possibility of having some 70.3's televised.
5. Under this situation, these athletes could represent the pro's to be "one voice" that WTC interacts with to get feedback, etc.
6. WTC could set a code of conduct for what it expects from "their paid pro's". I read a lot of commentary on here about pro's not acting like professionals, etc. WTC could establish and set standards. This would over time strengthen WTC's brand.
7. Improve competition even more, pro's on the outside of the 25 could become very motivated to make it to Kona and to get their shot at having a $50,000 salary and potentially quit their job for one year and see how they could really do living as a full time pro.

This would require an upfront investment by WTC, but I think in the long term. If they could develop a professional racing event that draws more attention/excitement due better competition there should be value added to the brand. I guess the real question is how long is the payback period and what kind of return on investment will WTC get?

Just curious what you or some others might think of this idea Dev?

I know there would also be some downside, which I am sure I am about to hear about.

1 possible upside for the pro's is that they might be able to use this as an opportunity to create a professional triathlete's association much like the NFL's player association. To an extent they could unionize to negotiate better terms for the pro's.

Anyway just an idea.

Re-read each of your 7 bullets and after each ask yourself, "How does this benefit WTC?"

Last I checked WTC doesn't have a problem with its brand. After all, they are so entrenched in the culture they can sell us "Home Decor".

The sooner people come to terms with the fact that triathlon is not about the pros, it's about the age groupers, the sooner these people will live happier lives.

I'd encourage anyone who disagrees with this last statement to come to the MOP/BOP where we live and talk to us or race in our world. At the swim start, we are not talking about the pros, we are encouraging each other that we can handle to choppy water. On the bike, we are not wondering how many watts Macca pushed, we're trying to not ride our bike off the road. On the run, we're not thinking about Rinny's IM marathon split, we're doing the math to decide how fast we have to walk to finish in 17 hours.

The fact is WTC is a gigantic entity that serves a massive triathlete population, of which pros and elite AGers is the smallest part. The rest of us are just a squirrel trying to get our own nut and what the pros do does not matter and will never matter to us. We don't care what races pros attend. We race the one that fits our location and work schedule. We don't care how competitive the field is because we start 10 minutes behind the "race" and will finish hours after.

Again, before you respond, schedule a race and come to the BOP. Ask us a few questions. It won't take long before you understand why WTC operates the way it does.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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My theory above is that the total out of pocket cost would then be $3.6 Million.

I feel you would need to pay at the races because there would be other pro's that are not part of the top 25 male and females that need to be able to earn prize money or a paycheck.

This program would let WTC lock in the best athletes and most likely hold them to a higher level as a professional athlete.

Other ideas could be what if WTC held lotteries for their paid pro's regarding which races they might have to attend. While in the past if you were a pro and you knew you didn't want to race Macca you just didn't go to that race, now it was all a matter of a drawing of some kind. Maybe this might be something for like half of the required races. This might also let WTC market to cities that we will have 5 of our top 25 male and 5 of our top 25 female pro's racing at your event. While maybe not earth shattering right now, over time (think long-term) it could be good selling point to host WTC events.

My thought here is, if WTC could get more money through these types of avenues that it recoups the cost to pay these 50 athletes. $3.6 Million is a $300,000 monthly spend with it being broken out over 12 months. This is not earth shattering expensive for WTC. They would however have to develop a plan that would boost their revenues to make something like this worth their while.


I also think in the long run WTC would better position the Ironman Brand as the NFL of Triathlon. I know that it's already there, but this would solidify it. Chalenge/Rev 3 could never match it. Challenge would become the Canadian Football League of Professional Triathlon Racing at the long course distance. Before anyone jumps on the hate wagon, this would only be at the professional level and say nothing about the age group racing events.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [CaptainJeff] [ In reply to ]
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CaptainJeff wrote:
Competitive sports do not, in any way, need to have money associated with winning.

For some, the act of winning is what drives their competition.

As it should.

By this definition, high school sports would be "participation events" and not "competitive sport." Heck, same with NCAA college football.

You meant for that to be in pink right? So basically the only people that can excel at being awesome in a sport are those that can afford to not work and just fuck around. Kinda like the Olympics 100 years ago. Yeah, that'll really give us the true best in a sport.

________________________
34 kona qualifiers 2006-'18 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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Mark,

I'm trying to understand how a pro union would work. I guess it's good to say "we as a pro sport feel XYZ", but don't unions work when they actually have a say in things? People always seem to say the pros need to do more together, but I'm trying to figure out how that actually can be of any real world significance. I guess what I'm asking, what backing would an pro union have? I think it can help, but I don't think it can really help all that much, if that makes sense. Seems more of a cute "in name only" stance, so to speak. And maybe that's enough, just curious how affective an pro union is, when the sport is as fractured as it in with race companies.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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MarkyV wrote:
Furious D wrote:

But at the same time the WTC has come to them basically saying - 'hey things between us have sucked and we are admitting that. Here's what we are trying to do to improve things for you. So instead of getting in social media pissing matches, lets work it out internally. If you disagree with what we are doing to make things better, or have other concerns, please go through these people or come to me, the CEO directly. Just please don't go out and fight this battle on social media'.


Except that they (WTC) have not done anything to engender trust. Not many feel they can talk directly to them. And really not many at all in the pro field like Jordan or Crowie as ambassadors. Neither are approachable and both have sycophantic tendencies to WTC. Some of us are trying to get PROTA going again and to have a real outside representation body. On the con call in August Andrew pleaded for an outside group that they could work with.

Ok - but devil's advocate, what have the pros done to foster a better relationship? Serious question. I'm not that wrapped up in pros so I don't know the history. Seems like a couple who do try to have that positive relationship with WTC are being hailed as turning their back on the fellow pros.

Your own signature promotes that you have qualified 26 people for Kona, so obviously the brand is important to you and to grow your business. So what good comes from a social media rebellion against WTC?
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [quid] [ In reply to ]
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quid wrote:
After reading the letter I was pretty shocked that the total prize money was only $1.6mm for the year. I'm not sure what WTC costs look like, but it looks like AZ 2014 participant list was about 1200 people each paying say $700. So that's $840,000 of revenue for Arizona and there's 80 races each year.

1200? Arizona has around 3000 entrants. 2644 finishers in 2013.

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Cornwall (Ontario) Triathlon
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [quid] [ In reply to ]
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quid wrote:
After reading the letter I was pretty shocked that the total prize money was only $1.6mm for the year. I'm not sure what WTC costs look like, but it looks like AZ 2014 participant list was about 1200 people each paying say $700. So that's $840,000 of revenue for Arizona and there's 80 races each year.

1200 people? Try double that. Or more.
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [Furious D] [ In reply to ]
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what have the pros done to foster a better relationship?
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They caused one of IM's biggest competitors (Rev3) to give up on trying to get pros to race their races. IM says jump, the pros respond with "how high"? So what if a few every now and then jump back at them on social media. They already dictate a lot.
ETA: The pros are just like AGers in that they will follow IM to the end of the earth (industry is pushing for that).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: BDoughtie: Sep 26, 14 12:49
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Re: Ironman CEO: dear professional athletes [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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No.
"Competitive sport" does not equal "can make a living doing this."
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