Indeed.
Without Hawaii the only thing which lasts of the WTC is fading mdot-calve-tattoos all over the world.
WTC would be just one of the organizations like Challenge, ITO, PTO, Mr. Moritz and how they're all called. Compete with them with fees, service and so on.

It's going that way anyways. Triathlon is maturing as a sport and with that comes change that a lot of the old school aren't going to like... including the end of the dominance of Kona/Ironman.

FYI, "WTC" no longer exists, it's just Ironman.

Holding it in Kona clearly draws many, but is it impossible to imagine that holding it elsewhere could draw more? I think it is problematic for a sport that is skewing old-- and for which cost is a barrier to entry--to hold its marquee event in a very expensive, remote location at a time of year when many can't get away from work. As a kid in the 80s I watched Kona with my dad who was big into triathlons, so I get the history and mystique. Nonetheless, I think sports have to change with the times.

For me, the draw is the challenge of qualifying, not the location of the event. So long as it remains hard to get a spot and earning an invitation gets me the chance to be among the best in my sport, I don't really care where the race is. It's certainly plausible that moving away from Kona would reduce demand and make it easier to qualify, which for me would lessen the experience, but I'm less convinced that the location itself is the decisive factor in attracting interest.

Thank you, I missed that.

It's only the 'golden goose' due to qualifying being the only (major) way to actually race it. It's the 1% of athletes who can get there in terms of times and money, who end up going year after year. If its opened up to a standard race it will sell out no doubt and wipe a lot of the backlog of athletes who dream of racing there, but cant as they arent good enough. Theres races all around the world that sell out, and could sell out multiple times over each year, the only reason these dont have 'legacy' entry is because it isnt restricted each year. People want to race Kona to experience it, the vast majority couldnt give a toss who else is racing there with them and if its the World Champs or not when they do their race.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

But accommodation is always going to be an issue with large numbers racing in Kona.


Having been to Kona many times prior to the Pandemic for the IMWC's in some respects, Kona was kind of close to max capacity. Could they have had more there - sure, 20 - 30 more entrants here or there. But I think something like 500 - 1000 more - there would have to be some serious changes to the transition area (the Pier is at max capacity I sense) and just generally there is no more accommodation room in the Town and environs!

Also I have noticed nerves of the locals become and bit more frayed and more local frustration with the event in the last number of years. It's going to be interesting how this 2-day version of the Race goes down in October.

My wife and I after having been probably 12 times in the last 15 years - for various reasons ( my wife racing, a bit of light work for me, and a bit of vacation and some riding), are planning on giving it a pass this year.

I'm currently in discussions with a Cycling Race/Event for an Announcing gig that same weekend! I'll take the pay! :-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Anyone know the number of online viewers for StG compared to Kona '19?

No but I watched from Europe which was different from the Hawaii venues because of the time of day. The Hawaii venues were not over until 03:00 at night. Only the hardcore watchers watched Hawaii from Europe.

I didn’t watch ‘19 but I would imagine it wasn’t simulcast on YouTube and peacock. Was it on Facebook?

If they opened it up so that it became a regular IM, couldn't they just accept the legacy people first? or otherwise keep the program? Even if the WC started to rotate, it doesn't mean you need to stop any programs you otherwise wouldn't have.

For instance, you could make it a lottery system - your number of ballots is dependent on the number of IMs you've done in the past 10 years. Or you could keep the legacy system as is and give those who graduate the choice - do they want Kona or wherever the WC happens to be? Let them pick.

Moving the WC title from Kona (and presumably the slot/roll-down system) doesn't mean that these things need to go away, or 100% move over to the rotating WC. You could easily keep some aspects tied to Kona and move others to the rotating WC venue.

Borrowing an analogy from running, the rotating WC could be like Boston - qualifiers + some charity/inspiration only. While Kona becomes more like New York - some people go based on qualification/merit, but for others its a lottery. Suddenly you have two races for which people want to aspire to.

ive always wanted to do kona but for me its always been the world championship appeal more so than the location and getting to race the best in the world. In fact id rather it be somewhere that is cheaper to get to and to stay but would still be a cool destination while still being a tough course. On paper St. George sounds like a great fit for that in checking all those boxes.

not sure how st. george was this year but if it were to become a recurring place for worlds i would bet the vibe might change a little bit too in getting a more world championship feel as there were people in the field who had signed up already before it became the worlds event

The issue with Kona and legacy is that for those of us, like me, who only have a prayer of racing it via that program, it's that (for me at least) there are two draws, and BOTH need to be present: Kona AND the WC.

If it's -just- Kona, then it's just another expensive-ass race for me, and I'll race Cozumel and Florida both for the price of Kona.

If it's the WC, but somewhere other than Kona, it's no great draw. Sam Long beat me by 6 hours in Tulsa and he'll beat me by 6 hours whatever race we both happen to be in. I'm not going to haul my ass to Iowa or wherever for that specific purpose.

No, I want to get doubled up by the best people at the World Championships at the historic home of it all. Either one on its own isn't the draw.

It's only the 'golden goose' due to qualifying being the only (major) way to actually race it. It's the 1% of athletes who can get there in terms of times and money, who end up going year after year. If its opened up to a standard race it will sell out no doubt and wipe a lot of the backlog of athletes who dream of racing there, but cant as they arent good enough. Theres races all around the world that sell out, and could sell out multiple times over each year, the only reason these dont have 'legacy' entry is because it isnt restricted each year. People want to race Kona to experience it, the vast majority couldnt give a toss who else is racing there with them and if its the World Champs or not when they do their race.


This has been my suggestion - Move the full IM World Championships around - perhaps on a 4 - 5 year rotating basis, and then return to Kona every 4 - 5 years. In the year's that the actual WC is NOT in Kona, it's an open AG Race for anyone to come and do - first come first served, with open registration, and perhaps also continuing with the Legacy program as well and maybe opening that up even more. They would have NO PROBLEM selling this thing out at 2500 spots each year.

On moving the IMWC's around - I know some will get worked up by this, and yes there is a tremendous legacy there in Kona, but it would come back periodically as noted, but by moving around it would make the race more accessible to a certain degree and you would have the opportunity of possibly having different courses for possibly different horses - for the Pros and the AGers!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I politely disagree.

Kona ONLY sells out and only has mystique because it is the World Championship. For only those who are long invested in our sport would Kona otherwise be important in non-WC years.

If they were serious about rotating around and say, only having Kona every third year or every other year -- don't otherwise hold a race there.

Frankly, I put IMWC on the same platform as The Masters. You race the same course every year, and the interesting thing is who figures out a different way to win at the place every year. Stadler's aqua bike to stay away; Macca's masterclass in getting the field to do his dirty work in 2010; Crowie coming back pissed off in 2011; Rinny running through the entire field; Ryf's sheer dominance; Frodo's "there's no fucking way I'm letting anyone else have the course record" stamp of authority.

IMHO, that gets lost when you move it around.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

If they rotate the worlds, Kona must still remain a qualification event. Ironman has the chance to have 2 massive draw cards with this system. Kona becomes "the Masters" and WC event is "the Championships".

I can see it something along the line of an Ironman offering 40 slots for Kona and 40 Slots for the WC, you can choose which event you wish to accept a slot to, the same for legacy athlete they can be offered the choice.

At a certain point though, doesn't it become a bit like Milan-SanRemo?

Every once in a while you get these flashes of brilliance: Kelly chasing down the line escape, Nibali timing things to perfection, Mohoric using a dropper and oversized disc brakes to eek out a few more seconds on the descent.

The rest of the time, it's a 7 hour cruise along the Italian coast.

Kona might be interesting when those flashes of brilliance occur. But what about 2018? Once the blue train started, it looked like a Lange procession. His win just felt inevitable.

What data do you have to state that 'Kona ONLY sells out...because it is a WC'?

I would suggest that if you build a bigger more dynamic sport, no race would fail to sell out. By keeping this purely American focus, it is purposely keeping the sport smaller than it could be. There is more passion for the sport in Europe, and likely more races that the US and yet they have to travel halfway across the globe to race the WC. How does a smaller sport make sense, or money (for IM's owners), in the long run.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

I completely disagree with this. It may sell out the first year when it’s not the WC but the experience and appeal that most people desire won’t be the same. Registration numbers will go down. Look at honu 70.3 as an example. When was the last time that race sold out?

I’m not saying rotating the WC is a bad choice. All I’m saying is that if the WC is rotated, Kona as a non-WC race won’t be the same. Is that a bad thing though?? I’m not sure quite yet.

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blog

At one point during the broadcast, I think Greg Welch stated 30,000 people were watching the stream. Pretty small number.

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"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski

Don't worry, he makes me horny. Not sure the North Americans get our brand of humour though!

What does this mean when you're 6 hours back? They're so far away, you might as well be racing in Iowa while the pros are in Kona.

I've raced Kona and finished around 10hrs and it doesn't feel like being in the same race. You just see them pass by a few times, many miles away from the turnarounds.

  



I qualified for Kona for the first time at IMAZ last year....I was third and not sure whether there would be two or three slots and was conflicted about whether I would even take a St. George slot if I didn't get a Kona slot. My dream for the past twelve years was to compete in a World Championship in Kona. For me, St. George is just not the same. The only history in St. George is as a former Ironman venue that not enough people were interested in.

The chance to compete at Kona is like an amateur golfer earning a chance to compete at Augusta for a championship....once in a lifetime.

That whenever we've taken top tier pro races, and turned them into non-top tier pro races, we have seen dramatic declines in registration for those events. Lake Placid was a very good example of this when the pro calendar got re-jiggered -- the community up there was pissed, and I don't think that race ever sold out in it or the couple of surrounding years.

There's already an absolutely epic full distance race in Europe. Any IMWC held there is going to have inevitable comparisons to Roth. Kona's unique in that regard.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Honu 70.3 sold out this year a few months ago....

Sure it won't be the same media circus with TGINR party and all the end of the year blowout emotion that it currently has but losing that won't make the race experience any less for most athletes.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

Hey Honu70.3 IS SOLD OUT!!! And it usually does.

Many Ironmans sell out. Kona140.6 would continue to sell out.

Here is how I would do it. You have Kona as the world championships on odd years to keep the mystique alive. On even years (also overlapping with Olympic year) you have another venue. For the odd years at EVERY RACE. you give out Kona slots and World's slots and qualifiers have to pick one. So you basically have 60-100 qualifier slots per regular event. Everyone wins. You get a Worlds race and you get a Kona race that are both desireable.