Do you mean Saint George, Utah?

Salt Lake City is where the championships are?! Shoot! Better head 4 hours north!

Crap. I should have flown into SLC instead of Vegas. And it looks like Sand Hollow reservoir is hundreds of miles from the airport. Shhh. St George isn’t a salt lake suburb :)

Wait, so the desperate registration emails sent to people that weren’t really legacy and AWA to do StG didn’t have an effect on this increase?

Let’s rephrase that differently. If they offered a KQ to all the AWA Gold and Silver, how many participants would they have at Kona? If you look at it through that lens, maybe the registration numbers at StG are not as impressive as you make them seem to be.

In isolation to just the IM WC race you might be right, but there are over 50 races to qualify and the dream of Kona has an impact on how many entrants they have - both for direct qualification and legacy.

If that impact is only 5% and races average 2,000 participants then the benefit of a bigger race is more than offset at 5,000 less competing.

I think that the WC could be anywhere in the planet.. but IM Kona is the race that all triathletes dream to race at least once.

If in the future, IM Kona is not anymore IM WC, I don't care, but I would like to have the opportunity to race there, with qualification, with "run-for-your-life-5minutes-sold-out" registration...

And.. if in this case, not being a WC, IM Kona is a not so crowded event, better for me.

About the IM WC, if it is in a special place, where I would love to visit, and not expensive travel... I would take any opportunity to qualify...

But don't loose the perspective: which percentage of regional triahtletes (from US) take start in IM St.George? Or chatanoga? South Africa?

Kona is a Worldwide race. If the race goes "local" it would be not so nice.

I've posted on various forums about this many times. To be honest the amount of abuse I have received following these posts is not nice. However, fwiw here is my suggestion

1. Kona is W/C venu every 4 years, qualification only, no legacy spots no celebrity spots
2. Hold Kona Every year, in non W/C years, Celebs, Legacy and normal entry by application - maybe similar to Challenge Roth, that sells out in 5 mins
3. Rotate W/C for non Kona years, Nice, Lanza, South Africa, Australia, Mexico etc, would be amazing, and would have no trouble filling every spot through qualification

Why? Different courses suit different athletes, Kona suits a certain type of athlete. Kona is unbelievably expensive for everyone outside the US, by rotating W/C, it would open it up to more AG athletes, also, October is almost impossible for people in some professions such as teachers. By not having to qualify for Kona every year, it would make Kona available to normal AG athletes

Would this devalue Kona? in my view no, Kona would still be the event that Pros want to win, and it would still have an elite entry list, it would just not be the W/C event.

I agree with 1 and 3, but not sure about having Kona as a non W/C event. I think Kona wouldn't be devalued for Pros even if it wasn't a WC, but it would be for age groupers. A huge part of the attraction to Kona is that you have to qualify for it. People aren't going to want to spend $10k and travel half way across the globe to race a non W/C event in the stinking heat. There are a ton of much cheaper, much better races on offer.

Personally I'm not sure I would spend $10,000 to go to Kona if it wasn't a W/C event, however, the popularity of the Legacy program shows that lot of people are

You'll note that if its purely a numbers game, then Ironman could easily rotate the WC to venues which could support with 4000-5000 participants AND run a guaranteed to be sold out Kona as a regular IM at 2500 participants at the same time.

The better question though is - what does the funnel look like for people coming into the sport (new customers) and staying in the sport (repeat customers) under each scenario.

My opinion is that they should probably rotate it just in fairness and for the fact that most similar sports tend to rotate their world championships - but there are a lot of assumptions as far as how to grow the sport and where you put your WC.

Like another poster I agree on 1 and 3. I love the idea of rotating the WC, but keeping Kona in there every 2 or 3 or 4 years.

On 2, I don't really care. It would be cool to have it a non WC every year, I'm sure there are tons of ppl who could never KQ who would go race a non WC there just to experience the course and location. It'd be like a bad golfer playing Augusta national, then when they watch the masters they can say theyve been there and know what it's like.

Flip side, would there be any benefit to giving the Kona locals a year or two off every cycle and just have the WC there every few years? I guess even if you do that some people are always going to be disgruntled no matter how infrequently it's held but just a thought. Just like lake placid it sounds like the level of local sour-ness toward Ironman may be growing? Idk I've never been there.

You just described me. A great race and a lot of luck led to a KQ last week at IMTX, but I had to turn it down. I'm a teacher with two kids in school-- a trip to Hawaii in October is about as difficult as it gets. Had the World Championship been in the summer I would have snatched it up, pretty much regardless of location. Had it been closer to home (Chicago) and less costly, I might have tried to make it work via a condensed 5-day trip, which is what I did for IMTX.

Given the cost, travel, and timing of Kona, it won't be feasible for me until my kids are out of the house and/or I'm retired. That kind of sucks, although I still love the sport and will keep shooting for KQs. I'm grateful that the rotating 70.3 championship offers an alternate goal to chase even if it is one that is easier, and therefore less satisfying, to achieve.

I wonder how Salt Lake would be to swim in?

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Buoyant like the ocean. Duh!

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It’s super shallow, you could just stand up. It’s now quite like the Dead Sea for buoyancy, but more than the ocean.

i'm with you more or less 100% on this. shame people are abusing you about this - your position seems perfectly respectful to me.

costs for almost everyone are high. even if you're an american but live, say, on the east coast, kona is a hell of a long flight. i'd also think that IM would benefit from just going with the safe investments: races like roth attract thousands of keen participants every year. 100 000 people turn out to watch mixed-team relays in hamburg. the french pack halls to watch indoor tri. just go with it!

also very much agree that it would be great to see different types of world championship courses. how cool would it be to have every tapered and shaved and racing a flat, crazy fast course like almere or cozumel? or on a crazy challenging course like embrunman?

take all of this with as much salt as you like - i've never done kona, so i don't have any first-hand experience of the unique magic there. but i have been a big fan of the sport for 25+ years, and feel like i know the sport and its history well.

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Nah, you’re wrong.

I'm sorry to hear that, but well done on KQ performance, I think that a lot of training has more to do with your performance than luck.

If you get the chance to come to Europe, do Challenge Roth, should be on every good triathlete's bucket list, great place to start a family vacation

I agree with you on this except for one point: hold Kona as the WC every 5 years, instead of every 4 years. This allows a few things to happen.

1. It allows you to hold the WC in Kona on big round numbered years. e.g. 45, 50, 55, 60, etc year anniversaries of the sport. Use those years to throw a big celebration bash where it all began.
2. You can properly rotate the WC around on each continent, with your other 4 years. Within each cycle, North America gets 1 year, Europe gets 1 year, Asia/AUS/NZ gets 1 year and then the other can be South America or Africa/Mid-East. As an example only - I only picked continents like that since that's where the sport is currently strongest (pick your own groupings), but a 5 year cycle allows you to have 4+1 instead of a 3+1.

While there are cheaper and better options to offer, there still is a MAJOR population in this sport and the general public that watched Kona coverage on some random Sunday afternoon on ABC. I am one of them.

I grew up watching the Boston marathon and the Kona specials year after year. And honestly I don't ever think I'll qualify for either. I'm also not rich enough to buy my way into either.

But if it turned to your normal race and was the same entry fee as any other IM race you bet your ass I would be able to convince the wife to go to Hawaii for a week for a vacation.

While you probably wouldn't get your average WC qualifier to head out there, you would be able to fill a start list with people who have always wanted to do that race and couldn't care less if it was a WC race or not. Let's not forget it originally wasn't a WC...it was just a race to see and some of us look to THAT history as being important.

If they were to cycle through other places and not hold a non-WC race there then sure it would cheapen it but keeping a presence there in some fashion is more than just a world championship.

As an average ironman athlete, Kona is the only reason to come back for more. Took me eight ironmans to earn a spot in 2018.Others earn it with a legacy spot an equally admirable journey. It is the origin of ironman and the pinnacle of the journey for the AG athletes. a trip to Kona is not cheap, but the races arent either, the time training, the bikes, the gear. The overall expense of the sport to torture yourself is ridiculous. People are always amazed when I tell them how expensive the entry into an individual race is.
The kona course isnt even nice. The swim is amazing, but it is all downhill from there. A lonely ride down the queen K with little to no ocean view and then a run across an industrial park and main highway. You dont feel like your in Hawaii when your racing, you feel like your racing on the Tarmac at an airport in vegas. I think almost every other race course in America is better. But it is the privlege of being there where all the historic greats in ironman trod. A moment to imagine and feel their pain and their journey. You cant move that race somewhere else without completely diluting the experience. The failure rate to show will be substantial.
The AWA designation is a fail in my opinion. Instead of that hokey designation for finish times, they should tier the finish times for the athletes with different finisher medals. This would be a motivator for first time finishers to come back and race again. Top 20% are ironman, 20%-50% are tinman, and 50% are greater are aluminum-man or something like that( or gold, silver, bronze finishers).

Well if you are correct I am so glad I did my dozen or so Ironman races over in Kona in the good old days of the 80's 90's and early 2000's. Nothing like it as far as I was concerned, I also loved my 25 IMC races in Penticton but they couldn't come close to the fun in Kona.

If I was still racing today I would go back to Kona anytime, in fact I still do except to just have a lazy vacation now. The sport has changed so much since those early triathlon days in 1981 when I started, most of us now who were racing back in the early 80's are older, I guess the younger people today don't see it as the same as we did... Well have fun in St George with your 2129 starting buddies, I shudder to think of that size starting line.

What was interesting on the weekend at ironman Australia was that the Hawaii spots were actually hard to give away for the first time in memory.

They were being rolled all over the place to get rid of them.Who knows maybe the Aussies don't want to travel yet but it was unusual.

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In 2004 (I think) the spots rolled forever because of the extreme exchange rate making the trip just too bloody expensive. I think the cost of an Hawaiian holiday plus the reluctance to travel too much right now might be part of the reason. ( I am going to do Ironman West Oz and then ride 3,000k back across the country to Adelaide and that three week trip will cost a fraction of what a Kona trip would cost)

Another thing I am noticing is the seeming lack of interest in the Ironman Worlds in general among my Aussie triathlon mates and social media types.Sure the "industry types" are into it but the general masses just don't seem to be "fans" of the sharp end of the field anymore. Hell people in my wide triathlon circle don't even get horny for Cam Wurf and he is the perfect Aussies larrikin. I just don't see the love.

I will be conducting an experiment on Saturday. I will be in Noosa helping with the running of Ultraman Australia from Thursday to Tuesday and I can guarantee that there won't be many among the 200 or so people assembled that actually know the World Champ's is on let alone who will be staying up on Saturday night to watch it.I won't surprised me if I am the only one who watches it live.

Agree every word

Have you seen the price if accomodation at Kona, a lot of people cannot afford to go anymore.

The race needs to move to carer for more people and make it somewhat affordable. Every race needs 100slots at least, 40 slots makes it out of reach for all but the pro agers of the tri world.

I have to disagree on your point that kona is what being the average athlete back. It actually only bring back a small % near to qualifier times or who have the ability and opportunity to train super hard to be a chance. 90% of the field are there to finish and be apart of the experience and understand Kona is no chance. So we need more slots at every race to increase the opportunity to qualify, to do that we need a venue that can handle more people.

Ironman cairns always had 100 slots not it has 69 ironman West Aus had 80 in previous years now has 40, the fields are bigger, those at the point end are faster and therefore the average athlete has no chance and are not there for kona in anyway. On top of that you have the repeat qualifier athletes that scoop up the slots year on year, so we dont have a lot of new blood qualify anyways.

Kona can certainly last, but it shouldn't be the WC every year. So many in this sport tie it to their every ambition and it is a destination so that is something to keep in mind. I'll say it again though, it shouldn't be the WC every year. There are many "better" courses (YMMV obviously) and it is a case to showcase those spots as well as making the WC more accessible travel wise for so many athletes.

Now we have had st george, what are everyone’s thoughts?

I think we had two amazing pro races and two amazing champions.

I wont be surprised if St George is on again next year as a world title event.

But not in May: a World Championships needs to be no earlier than mid-August, wherever held.
And also, for athletes' welfare, a venue where the run is not in stupid even dangerous temperature/humidity conditions. No top marathon (apart from the Olympic games and even then they choose the coolest time of day) runs in adverse conditions. Why does Triathlon aim to make it even more of a sufferfest than it is already? Is keeping the however designated 'World Championships' DNF rate up a race aim?
Champions both. Thought the supporting acts in silver, bronze and top 6 were pretty amazing too. Haug chase bound to catch and Matthews resistance. Sanders never give up and Currie's desperate effort to hang on. Moench, Astle and Norden (like Matthews debutantes) closing in in style. Leiferman, Angert and Chevalier all chasing hard. First class!

Best ironman world champs I have followed. Definitely in favour of moving it around.

I've been following the forms of online coverage of Kona since 2004, and it's pretty boring now.

As far as a race venue, it certainly delivered. Rotate the world champs.

The one gripe was that they didn't have live timing splits up on screen, which they use for their B races. Anyone know why they weren't up on screen? The app was working perfectly.

As a participant, it felt more like a normal race than a WC. St George is great, but keep Kona the WC

Agreed. Please rotate, including the date based on local weather.


I was also surprised by the lack of splits. Had to use the app tracker to follow properly.

If the two day Kona race this October goes off well and the local community is accepting of that concept, it will stay in Kona. That way they can have 4000+ racers over two days, accommodations not withstanding.

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I think the accommodation in Kona on these sort of numbers will be the killer, they still have 3 championships level races and about ten total qualifiers to go and the place is full now.

If it went to a rotation what would be your events, I think it should be a permanent rotation, not like the 70.3 that can go anywhere.

I would have it as:

Kona
Cairns
Frankfurt
Mainland USA easy to fly to location

If the object is to put the "World" into WC by rotating the venue, it's difficult to justify the US hosting every second year. Replace mainland US with somewhere else.

American triathletes have the most disposable income, though. This is where the $$$$ is for Ironman.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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As a frequent traveler to Hawai'i I'll say:
1) it's stupid expensive and getting worse every year
2) accommodation and flights for almost 4000 athletes, fans and family for a single weekend... impossible.

IM Kona may be the dream for many but reality means it's days are definitely numbered.

Won’t they need to decide about 2023 before the race for 2022? Qualifiers start in September.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

That's good. It means they can more easily make the effort to travel than the rest of us. ;-)

I’ve also been wondering this given that I’m signed up for an IM this September.

Could be similar to what I observed from afar in 2021 when some races had very few spots while others had up to 150! I could easily see Sept 2022 races (Wisconsin, Maryland, Wales, Chatt) having 40 or fewer and then after a hopefully successful 2-day Kona races like FL, CA, AZ, etc all of a sudden have 80+ spots. Doesn’t change my plans, motivation, or training but definitely something I’ve wondered.

I've raised plenty of iron Man events but I've never been to Kona and I will say that this weekend felt just like a regular race to me... I do love St George as a venue though. Plenty of accommodations parking was relatively easy and free for a spectators and the only downside was the ability to spectate the bike at multiple points and the swim.

Wrong, the legacy participants only want to go there -because- its the big show. If its not the W/C with all the excitement around it, no one is gonna spend $$$$$ to go there and fry their brains on a lava field.

My dear Kona,

I know we've been married for 40 years, and we were pretty much dating on Oahu for four years before that, but I haven't had any action from you for three years and well, I had this one night stand and sorry but,....now I think I want to be with her.

I know she's young and had brief unsuccessful relationship with another Ironman previously, but I think maybe, she might stay around this time and make me happy, at least for a couple of years. At least I hope so. She had thing this short-term relationship thing going recently which she seemed pretty committed to. Not even sure whether she'll try to maintain that while I'm with her.

To be honest, I'm unsure what the future will be for this new relationship, or how long it will last, or where I'll move on to should it not work out.

Maybe we could have a fling every few years to keep the flame flickering? Possibly in the hope of getting back together if this new relationship doesn't work out?

yours,

WC

Some people will always be the oldest in the AG at every venue in that case: either 54,59,64,69 etc. and thus be in disadvantage relative to those who are 50,55,60,65,70 etc.

Agree.
5 years is ideal if you are bottom age group, awful for those top.

KONA is the GOLDEN GOOSE. It is the dream that people aspire for. It is why there is a LEGACY list of people doing 15 Ironman's for their 1 shot of going to KONA. It is HISTORY. KONA so much more than a world championship for 99% of the people that have no chance of winning anything. Yipee....I qualified to race in St. George. Take away the dream of Kona and Ironman means nothing to so many.

Indeed.
Without Hawaii the only thing which lasts of the WTC is fading mdot-calve-tattoos all over the world.
WTC would be just one of the organizations like Challenge, ITO, PTO, Mr. Moritz and how they're all called. Compete with them with fees, service and so on.

It's going that way anyways. Triathlon is maturing as a sport and with that comes change that a lot of the old school aren't going to like... including the end of the dominance of Kona/Ironman.

FYI, "WTC" no longer exists, it's just Ironman.

Holding it in Kona clearly draws many, but is it impossible to imagine that holding it elsewhere could draw more? I think it is problematic for a sport that is skewing old-- and for which cost is a barrier to entry--to hold its marquee event in a very expensive, remote location at a time of year when many can't get away from work. As a kid in the 80s I watched Kona with my dad who was big into triathlons, so I get the history and mystique. Nonetheless, I think sports have to change with the times.

For me, the draw is the challenge of qualifying, not the location of the event. So long as it remains hard to get a spot and earning an invitation gets me the chance to be among the best in my sport, I don't really care where the race is. It's certainly plausible that moving away from Kona would reduce demand and make it easier to qualify, which for me would lessen the experience, but I'm less convinced that the location itself is the decisive factor in attracting interest.

Thank you, I missed that.

It's only the 'golden goose' due to qualifying being the only (major) way to actually race it. It's the 1% of athletes who can get there in terms of times and money, who end up going year after year. If its opened up to a standard race it will sell out no doubt and wipe a lot of the backlog of athletes who dream of racing there, but cant as they arent good enough. Theres races all around the world that sell out, and could sell out multiple times over each year, the only reason these dont have 'legacy' entry is because it isnt restricted each year. People want to race Kona to experience it, the vast majority couldnt give a toss who else is racing there with them and if its the World Champs or not when they do their race.

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@the.lazy.triathlete

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18691068

But accommodation is always going to be an issue with large numbers racing in Kona.


Having been to Kona many times prior to the Pandemic for the IMWC's in some respects, Kona was kind of close to max capacity. Could they have had more there - sure, 20 - 30 more entrants here or there. But I think something like 500 - 1000 more - there would have to be some serious changes to the transition area (the Pier is at max capacity I sense) and just generally there is no more accommodation room in the Town and environs!

Also I have noticed nerves of the locals become and bit more frayed and more local frustration with the event in the last number of years. It's going to be interesting how this 2-day version of the Race goes down in October.

My wife and I after having been probably 12 times in the last 15 years - for various reasons ( my wife racing, a bit of light work for me, and a bit of vacation and some riding), are planning on giving it a pass this year.

I'm currently in discussions with a Cycling Race/Event for an Announcing gig that same weekend! I'll take the pay! :-)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Anyone know the number of online viewers for StG compared to Kona '19?

No but I watched from Europe which was different from the Hawaii venues because of the time of day. The Hawaii venues were not over until 03:00 at night. Only the hardcore watchers watched Hawaii from Europe.

I didn’t watch ‘19 but I would imagine it wasn’t simulcast on YouTube and peacock. Was it on Facebook?

If they opened it up so that it became a regular IM, couldn't they just accept the legacy people first? or otherwise keep the program? Even if the WC started to rotate, it doesn't mean you need to stop any programs you otherwise wouldn't have.

For instance, you could make it a lottery system - your number of ballots is dependent on the number of IMs you've done in the past 10 years. Or you could keep the legacy system as is and give those who graduate the choice - do they want Kona or wherever the WC happens to be? Let them pick.

Moving the WC title from Kona (and presumably the slot/roll-down system) doesn't mean that these things need to go away, or 100% move over to the rotating WC. You could easily keep some aspects tied to Kona and move others to the rotating WC venue.

Borrowing an analogy from running, the rotating WC could be like Boston - qualifiers + some charity/inspiration only. While Kona becomes more like New York - some people go based on qualification/merit, but for others its a lottery. Suddenly you have two races for which people want to aspire to.

ive always wanted to do kona but for me its always been the world championship appeal more so than the location and getting to race the best in the world. In fact id rather it be somewhere that is cheaper to get to and to stay but would still be a cool destination while still being a tough course. On paper St. George sounds like a great fit for that in checking all those boxes.

not sure how st. george was this year but if it were to become a recurring place for worlds i would bet the vibe might change a little bit too in getting a more world championship feel as there were people in the field who had signed up already before it became the worlds event

The issue with Kona and legacy is that for those of us, like me, who only have a prayer of racing it via that program, it's that (for me at least) there are two draws, and BOTH need to be present: Kona AND the WC.

If it's -just- Kona, then it's just another expensive-ass race for me, and I'll race Cozumel and Florida both for the price of Kona.

If it's the WC, but somewhere other than Kona, it's no great draw. Sam Long beat me by 6 hours in Tulsa and he'll beat me by 6 hours whatever race we both happen to be in. I'm not going to haul my ass to Iowa or wherever for that specific purpose.

No, I want to get doubled up by the best people at the World Championships at the historic home of it all. Either one on its own isn't the draw.

It's only the 'golden goose' due to qualifying being the only (major) way to actually race it. It's the 1% of athletes who can get there in terms of times and money, who end up going year after year. If its opened up to a standard race it will sell out no doubt and wipe a lot of the backlog of athletes who dream of racing there, but cant as they arent good enough. Theres races all around the world that sell out, and could sell out multiple times over each year, the only reason these dont have 'legacy' entry is because it isnt restricted each year. People want to race Kona to experience it, the vast majority couldnt give a toss who else is racing there with them and if its the World Champs or not when they do their race.


This has been my suggestion - Move the full IM World Championships around - perhaps on a 4 - 5 year rotating basis, and then return to Kona every 4 - 5 years. In the year's that the actual WC is NOT in Kona, it's an open AG Race for anyone to come and do - first come first served, with open registration, and perhaps also continuing with the Legacy program as well and maybe opening that up even more. They would have NO PROBLEM selling this thing out at 2500 spots each year.

On moving the IMWC's around - I know some will get worked up by this, and yes there is a tremendous legacy there in Kona, but it would come back periodically as noted, but by moving around it would make the race more accessible to a certain degree and you would have the opportunity of possibly having different courses for possibly different horses - for the Pros and the AGers!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I politely disagree.

Kona ONLY sells out and only has mystique because it is the World Championship. For only those who are long invested in our sport would Kona otherwise be important in non-WC years.

If they were serious about rotating around and say, only having Kona every third year or every other year -- don't otherwise hold a race there.

Frankly, I put IMWC on the same platform as The Masters. You race the same course every year, and the interesting thing is who figures out a different way to win at the place every year. Stadler's aqua bike to stay away; Macca's masterclass in getting the field to do his dirty work in 2010; Crowie coming back pissed off in 2011; Rinny running through the entire field; Ryf's sheer dominance; Frodo's "there's no fucking way I'm letting anyone else have the course record" stamp of authority.

IMHO, that gets lost when you move it around.

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If they rotate the worlds, Kona must still remain a qualification event. Ironman has the chance to have 2 massive draw cards with this system. Kona becomes "the Masters" and WC event is "the Championships".

I can see it something along the line of an Ironman offering 40 slots for Kona and 40 Slots for the WC, you can choose which event you wish to accept a slot to, the same for legacy athlete they can be offered the choice.

At a certain point though, doesn't it become a bit like Milan-SanRemo?

Every once in a while you get these flashes of brilliance: Kelly chasing down the line escape, Nibali timing things to perfection, Mohoric using a dropper and oversized disc brakes to eek out a few more seconds on the descent.

The rest of the time, it's a 7 hour cruise along the Italian coast.

Kona might be interesting when those flashes of brilliance occur. But what about 2018? Once the blue train started, it looked like a Lange procession. His win just felt inevitable.

What data do you have to state that 'Kona ONLY sells out...because it is a WC'?

I would suggest that if you build a bigger more dynamic sport, no race would fail to sell out. By keeping this purely American focus, it is purposely keeping the sport smaller than it could be. There is more passion for the sport in Europe, and likely more races that the US and yet they have to travel halfway across the globe to race the WC. How does a smaller sport make sense, or money (for IM's owners), in the long run.

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I completely disagree with this. It may sell out the first year when it’s not the WC but the experience and appeal that most people desire won’t be the same. Registration numbers will go down. Look at honu 70.3 as an example. When was the last time that race sold out?

I’m not saying rotating the WC is a bad choice. All I’m saying is that if the WC is rotated, Kona as a non-WC race won’t be the same. Is that a bad thing though?? I’m not sure quite yet.

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blog

At one point during the broadcast, I think Greg Welch stated 30,000 people were watching the stream. Pretty small number.

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What does this mean when you're 6 hours back? They're so far away, you might as well be racing in Iowa while the pros are in Kona.

I've raced Kona and finished around 10hrs and it doesn't feel like being in the same race. You just see them pass by a few times, many miles away from the turnarounds.

  



I qualified for Kona for the first time at IMAZ last year....I was third and not sure whether there would be two or three slots and was conflicted about whether I would even take a St. George slot if I didn't get a Kona slot. My dream for the past twelve years was to compete in a World Championship in Kona. For me, St. George is just not the same. The only history in St. George is as a former Ironman venue that not enough people were interested in.

The chance to compete at Kona is like an amateur golfer earning a chance to compete at Augusta for a championship....once in a lifetime.

That whenever we've taken top tier pro races, and turned them into non-top tier pro races, we have seen dramatic declines in registration for those events. Lake Placid was a very good example of this when the pro calendar got re-jiggered -- the community up there was pissed, and I don't think that race ever sold out in it or the couple of surrounding years.

There's already an absolutely epic full distance race in Europe. Any IMWC held there is going to have inevitable comparisons to Roth. Kona's unique in that regard.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Honu 70.3 sold out this year a few months ago....

Sure it won't be the same media circus with TGINR party and all the end of the year blowout emotion that it currently has but losing that won't make the race experience any less for most athletes.

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Hey Honu70.3 IS SOLD OUT!!! And it usually does.

Many Ironmans sell out. Kona140.6 would continue to sell out.

Here is how I would do it. You have Kona as the world championships on odd years to keep the mystique alive. On even years (also overlapping with Olympic year) you have another venue. For the odd years at EVERY RACE. you give out Kona slots and World's slots and qualifiers have to pick one. So you basically have 60-100 qualifier slots per regular event. Everyone wins. You get a Worlds race and you get a Kona race that are both desireable.

If the WC were held in Kona every 4th year and rotated to courses that are more affordable and closer to population centers with a lot of triathletes, would the WC still sell out every year? I imagine so.

Would putting it in a cheaper, more accessible location make it easier for people other than rich old dudes to participate and possibly grow the sport? It’s certainly plausible.

Would Kona’s numbers decline in the years it wasn’t the WC? Probably. But if you can still sell out your WCs and grow interest in the sport in the process, wouldn’t it be worth a modest decrease in Kona numbers?

The lesson that 70.3 Worlds moving around is that it may or may not sell out, depending upon the venue.

And I don't really think being able to participate in IMWCs is an indicator of the health of the sport. Races selling out, generally, is an indicator of the health of the sport. And the races that really show the health of the sport generally aren't put on by IM, Challenge, CLASH, PTO, etc. It's your local ones. If those are healthy, and bring new people in, and then eventually start mixing in those races put on by the larger companies, then you have a better recipe for success.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Did the 70.3 championship attract more people, interest, and attention when it was held in Clearwater or Vegas? Was it a mistake to start moving it around the world? Should IM have just stuck with one of the original locations to build up a Kona-style tradition?

I honestly don’t know what the recent 70.3 WC numbers have been in terms of selling out. Has the 70.3 championship attracted fewer participants than Kona? My sense is that the 70.3 WC numbers are pretty good and that overall participation in 70.3 races has grown more than full distance in recent years. I can’t conclude that 70.3 growth is a result of bringing the WC closer to triathletes, but who knows? I certainly don’t think 70.3s have been hurt by rotating the WC.

In any case, I don’t think you can assert that because the the 70.3 championship does not sell out every year that the full distance would not sell out. Among other reasons, the 70.3 WC has been held/ scheduled in some places that I would venture are not that close to triathlon population centers and/ or inaccessible. As I and others have suggested, it would be better to rotate the full distance WC to areas that are close to where the triathletes are.

How about this : each year the world champs are held somewhere in the world (easy access with plenty of affordable accomodation) for all qualifiers. Each AG podium (or top 5, or more ?) then qualifies for the Kona world championships, which are held every 4th year. During the Kona year, there is also a regular IM WC which qualifies for the next Kona event.

This way Ironman gets to keep IM WC Kona, make it an even bigger dream (need to qualify twice, also they can keep the legacy invites). They can also keep the event to a manageable participant count.

Plenty of downsides though from qualifying for the event multiple years down the line. And not sure what the pros would make of it.

Have Kona be non WC in october, open to 10,000 slots (2 days racing) so every dreamer can participate and get it out of there system. Pretty sure there will not be a sell out and the luster will die out. Its a pretty ugly course. St George is more visually appealing imho.

I disagree that there is not a connection between IMWC and the health of the sport.. The IMWCs, like the national or world championships of any sport, have the potential to draw attention and interest. Lots of people watch the Super Bowl or Final Four that don’t watch a single regular season game. If you can set up your WC in a way that draws eyes and—in the case of triathlon— participants, it’s good for your sport. It’s easy to imagine people doing a local triathlon because they were exposed to the IMWC. And holding high profile events close to people matters. It’s the reason the NFL plays in London or the NBA played in China.

I doubt if Ironman will get away with calling their championship the World Championship in the long run if it is not in Hawaii.
Also now there are a lot of people who say how can a commercial company call their race World Championship. But it is accepted reluctantly because it is held on the holy Hawaii ground. If not, it will just be the Championship of Ironman like for example the "Championship" of Challenge.
Maybe even the ITU will sense new chances for a longcourse WC.
Ironman could come in dire straits just for a couple of dollars.

It's for the bucket list of it all. The WC is Kona; Kona is the WC. I want to have done both at the same time, not each on its own. Are they in a different universe from me? They sure are. But I want to have BEEN there. I want to have shared that experience, if only tangentially. And after shoveling all that money into the IM Corp and waited my turn, I don't want to be told "welcome to sunny Montana."

If I actually qualified for WC, I wouldn't care where it was. But that is never going to happen, so these are my wants, silly as they may seem.

I think this is the point where any decision adversely hits someone the wrong way (even keeping it in Kona is a decision).

As a counter, I'd much rather visit a rotating WC - mostly because Hawaii isn't that approachable for a full family. At least with a rotating selection, I have a chance every few years of it being on my continent, or if not, at least more accessible continents (Europe is a more accessible destination for North America than Kona).

If I manage to qualify, there's zero chance my family comes with me. I'll go, but only because the lifelong goal trumps the huge bill (and probably only once). If its rotating, at least there's a decent chance that my family can come (they've supported me this far), and I'd likely try to shoot for multiple WCs as they rotate.

going to draw the parallels with marathon running. Kona and Boston are both the pinnacle of age group athletes. On the pro side Kona is the pinnacle where every pro is shooting for it but Boston is just one of the majors and yes you always get a competitive/deep field but its not necessarily more coveted or deeper than NY, London, Berlin, Chicago, and Tokyo.

i think personally i would rather go to Roth but wish it were qualification based so getting there meant more too

70.3 growth is based on the fact that it is a much less absurd race distance...........

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I think it would be interesting to see the break down of "The WC need to stay in Kona" and "The WC needs to rotate" based on who has raced Kona and who hasn't. Also, who is racing to compete and who is racing to complete. Generally, I think the people that want it to stay in Kona have never done it before and/or are there to just complete. The people that want a rotating WC are there to compete and/or have been there before.

Exactly, whatever happens many will be disappointed. At this stage they should do what's best for the sport. And Kona isn't that, it is excluding a large numbers of triathletes because of location, price and timing.

IM has done a fantastic job at marketing Kona, brainwashing people with the mystical big island where everything started (even if it started on the island next door). Surely they can start doing the same with other locations around the world in a rotating system. Then in 40 years when they'll have to discontinue the Nice WC or the Lanzarote WC, people on Slowtwitch 8.0 will be horrified, no no no you can't discontinue Lanzarote it embodies the spirit of the sport I would never want to not race WC in Lanzarote etc.

When KB crossed the line, the commentators were saying that he was finishing the hoka oneone run course and about to become the 2021 Intermountain Healthcare Ironman world champion...Kona is a marketing trick, a powerful one. Maybe it's time to open triathlon to everyone in the world, and make it less of a US-centric heavy-marketing party?

Let's keep a race in Kona so pilgrims can pay 10k to go run through an industrial park once a year; but let's move the WC out of there to make it available to all deserving athletes...from around the world.

This is accurate for me. My slow legacy butt is just there to complete, so I want that to be at the place that is sold as being synonymous with the IMWC. I'd be bummed if that turns out not to be the case when my name comes up on the list, but I'm pragmatic enough to realize that it's the marquee names and not my desire for the perfect Instagram moment that is going to drive that bus.

Right now, since I've been KQ'd for a while now and have waited through multiple Kona cancellations, I am incredibly supportive of keeping it in Kona. It's the classic!

That said, I may feel differently after October. I have to admit I was impressed with the production value last week in StG. It opened the door to the idea in my head, which I think was exactly IM's goal. Even though I think they should have ditched the Hawaiian theme for a Native American one, which they did in small parts.

Incredibly challenging course as well, can't wait to compare it with Kona. Not sure if "incredibly difficult" should be a WC requirement or if the field alone is enough to dictate difficulty, but I think it should be a challenging course with diverse skills being tested.

The ways the pros talked about it afterwards makes me think some of them (LS stands out although I don't think he said it directly) are coming around to the rotation idea too. The notion of different types of athletes having a chance to compete other than "the type that does well at Kona" (in quotes as KB is blowing up that notion) must be alluring to some.

Still, maybe I'll get over it but the idea just kinda makes me kinda sad. Those Kona broadcasts were staples of my formative triathlon years, and I still love the aspect of returning to the birthplace of the sport to crown a champion.

If I were inexplicably given the power to make the call today after experiencing StG, I'd still keep it in Kona, but definitely with a little less conviction than I had before

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Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
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No one is asserting that 70.3 growth is solely or even principally a result of a rotating WC. You’re knocking down a straw man.

The debate is over the lesson we can draw from the example of the 70.3 rotating championship. My sense is that it helps participation and increases interest in the sport, but I could be wrong. Hard proof that goes beyond anecdote is hard to generate.

I don’t doubt that there is a risk to including locations other than Kona. It’s certainly reasonable to worry that a switch would mean a less compelling, less sought after WC. But as I’ve said, when you have an aging sport with multiple barriers to entry, not the least of which is cost, there is something wrong both symbolically and practically with holding your highest profile event in a place and time that only the most fortunate can go.

Amen.

You introduce logic into baseless speculation, how dare you.

This is all there is to it. There isn't anything inherently special about Kona. It's also why those who have never done it are the ones who care more about keeping it there

 
I would like to see courses adjusted in WC years so for example if the race was in cairns they should run it as the original course where athletes ran from 20km out of town through sugar fields then did two small loops in town to finish. Right now the run course is 4 small in town loops and not as iconic as that original course.

Moreover, Kona, in a not championship year could turn into a 2 lap bike course so athletes don't go as far along the highway, therefore the iconic climb to Hawi is kept for WC years, same as the run, it could just be 4x 10km loops along the coast front, but in a WC year the course would be the full iconic course that includes the energy lab.

This keeps the WC years even more special and iconic.

I think the baseless speculation came from Andrew Messick in an interview, he didn't cite any market research or anything like that, but maybe it's not entirely baseless.

Messick and the rest of the lackeys would dump Kona in a heart beat if they thought they could make a buck, but that simply isn’t the case.

My personal opinion is that Hawaii sent a message that they are not as “open for business” as rural southern Utah. Messick told one of the biggest lies I’ve heard in a presser for IMWC when he said that two day events have been a huge success at 70.3 WC’s. Like last fall?

The problem, which Kona is about to find out, is that you get twice the hassle for the same revenue stream. If lodging is 100% occupancy, restaurants are 100% occupancy for a one day event, what is gained by closing roads and rerouting traffic, calling for volunteers, and inconveniencing your tax base all weekend for one more day of slightly higher revenue? Basically the ladies come in a day earlier and the guys leave a day later, so maybe two days of higher demand?

It’s just plain greed and no one is calling them out because Covid caused pent up demand.

If they lose Kona, that’s a huge battle lost in the war against Challenge and PTO. They sell thousands of entries every year to participants who are trying to legacy qualify for Kona. Not to mention the AGer’s who are constantly searching for the perfect field to break into a top 10 and qualify for Kona.

Without the crown jewel and a huge piece of continuity to their history and essentially the history of the sport they become another overpriced event organizer.

All I know is when the 70.3 Worlds were held in Vegas each year at every roll down I went to in Australia by the end they said who wants to race in Vegas and the few people that got up received a spot and may have taken 6 hours??? In 2016 when the Worlds were on the Sunny Coast in Australia getting a ticket to that was a hotter item than Kona that year.

I think rotating the 70.3 worlds was to get a more global interest in them be it more so in the geographical area that year where as everyone wants to go to Kona! I've raced 4 Konas and one 70.3 Worlds. I was to Race 70.3 Worlds in NZ 2020 until the rona came along and now deferred to 2024 but travelling too far for one doesn't excite me. I like Kona as there is basically no home ground advantage and I have unfinished business on that course where as some where else? Meh not so much...

I'm a racing to COMPLETE person of all distances and IM Fl will be my first full. I'm very much a rotate it around though.

But it's kinda similar thoughts - I feel that if it's rotated I'd have a better shot of going to Kona to race the course and I honestly don't care if it's a WC or not. I just would love to race the iconic course. IM LP is another one I want to do for being do iconic and if Florida goes well enough, I'll be doing that in 2023 assuming the town doesn't can the race.

I feel a mix up between WC and just a regular race is a good idea; but since it's a good idea, means it wouldn't be profitable enough for IM.

Yeah I have been racing 70.3 Worlds since Clearwater in 2008.I have done almost every race that has been held here in the US but have never traveled overseas for a Worlds race even though I qualified for them. I have also done Kona 3X but I might consider traveling or an IM WC event someplace else. I would also happily race a St. George IMWC race. Personally if I am going to travel to a different country, I'm going there for a vacation, not an event.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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I am kind of the opposite as I have done Switz 2x, Western Oz, Canada 2x and the Patagonman (not an IM, I know), and have only done the 70.3 in Austria, Nice and the one in Chattanooga (which seems very foreign when you read it).

I prefer to race globally but do like StG and have had my fill of Kona. I have been to Maui or Kona ever year since 2011 except in 2019 and 2020.

Bring on the global WC! It's time to make the sport a true global one!

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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I had previously commented on this forum that kona should go on rotation. A few weeks back I surprised myself at IM Cairns and picked up a Kona slot (2nd time going). I debated not going due to the high costs, but in the end ill go, leave the kids at home and just take my wife as that is what we can afford, 6 day trip.

Anyways…. The point is, I’ve changed my tune, no other location would get me this excited, this willing to find $10,000 for a 6 day trip. So I backflip on my comments, and hope Kona stays put. I doubt Ill ever get back there again, I got lucky with field a little weaker and being bottom of 40-45 age group helped, but I was 3rd and we had 6 slots so pretty amazing outcome after being 28th in age group below last year and thinking I was way out of every contending again.

Im staying 35km up the highway, its going to be a pain im arse to get around, but I am there. I hope Ironman run some race morning shuttle buses with so many people staying out of the main area.

Also, now having booked late there is a shit load of accom but its out of way. At cairns they bus us 30km to the race start so its not really any different to that, so run buses please Ironman.

Interesting comments, I raced in 2003/2004 and had such an experience in 2004 (2nd flat, hours waiting for a wheel, race my roommate final 500m for the last beer in the fridge) that I sort of settled on not going back.

Since 2013 most years either my wife or athletes have been there so I went as support, I really loved the event not having to race….but in August I am 50 and the goal is to qualify just so I know I can again but maybe not go…I think my wife would make me though so she could hang out and have fun.

After Having done a lot of local races (penticton x8, Whistler x3, CDA x3 Victoria half a million times since 1995….it’s going to take an epic location to get me motivated.

Next year either Europe or maybe Philippines? Possibly Aus, I did the Forster race 3x and absolutely loved my stay in Australia.

Maurice

If you want a great race do a 70.3 in Philippines, Cebu is amazing! Huge crowd amazing water to swim in, epic heat! Prob best race out of Kona on planet.

Replying in general.

The slots for Kona rolled down to place 35 (M44-49, my AG) in Frankfurt last weekend. So many people didn´t take their slot because of the insane costs involved (a thousand Euo entry fee, for what? And this is just the beginning). So the concept of a World Championship is watered down even more, because it is not for the fastest athletes, but for the most affluent.

Roll down has always happened, so we will never get "the very best" every year at Kona. It's still the race the vast majority of folks want to get too at some point

Getting a Kona slot in Frankfurt with a time with just under 10 hours (M44-49) was pretty much impossible. A trip to Kona for me and my family would be around 20000 Euros. Which is insane. It will be or already is a WC for the rich.

European resident here.


If I were given a choice between Kona and Roth, I’d go to Roth, without question. (And if I ever intend to do a 140.6, I’ll go to Roth).

All expenses paid? I’d consider Kona, but not sure with the brutal climate and long travel.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Having done both, IMHO Roth had a better all-around atmosphere but Kona hit the spot for its rich history.

Pre covid roll down slots I ever went to never had more than about two turn it down. And it was almost 100% because either already had a slot or have been there before and had a family so couldn’t justify the cost to go again. The first year I qualified in Melbourne 2014 in 35-39 there were 14 slots. It rolled to 17 and I finished 18th. Luckily the only 60-64 male athlete and guaranteed spot wasn’t there so it rolled back into 35-39. I can’t vouch for other countries but a vast majority of the very best from the Asia Pacific were generally always there.

I think post covid be it financial, the uncertainty of travel or the virus itself is causing a drop in demand. Maybe like me I’ve reassessed my life through covid and have other priorities I find more important than racing Kona again???

Could just be me, but this one misses the point.

If I were ever just given Kona, I wouldn't care to go. But instead I missed qualifying by one slot four times before I finally got the chance. So having had to earn it, of course I'm heading to the Big Island.

Roth on the other hand, while it's 100% on my list and looks amazing, is something I'll just try to sign up for. It's not an earned starting spot, just an amazing race venue.

Both cool, but very different. And can't be compared in a "if I were given either one" kinda way for me.

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Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

This is a very large change from pre-covid. I feel it must be driven by something other than the cost, which is no doubt higher, but not enough higher compared to pre-covid to make this difference in my estimation.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Cost is much more. I have been many times.

Entry - $1200 vs $960 in 2019 (estimated)
Car Rental - $1100 vs $480 in 2019
Condo - $3400 vs $1500 in 2019

I use United FF mile always for ticket but cost are definitely much higher!

Travel from EU and late qualifying will certainly be a big cost. I am even thinking of bailing this year and eat the $1200 already payed as there are far more hidden cost every year and I am not kidding myself this time.

Were the Frankfurt slots for Kona 2022 or for 2023? If they were for 2022, I think that partially explains the deep rolldown. There's already been one IM championship this year and maybe a lot of the people who did St. George don't want to do a second one. Also, Kona 2022 isn't that far down the road, which perhaps limits some people in terms of travel or training. That being said, I agree with your point that Kona is a destination that largely limits the field to the wealthy.

Just for a somewhat different perspective, for me just qualifying for Kona was the accomplishment. I was so excited to get the KQ, I didn't really care as much about actually doing the race, particularly given the exorbitant costs, so I declined my spot. Would I like to do Kona? Sure. But not enough to justify the cost and challenge of taking a vacation at a very inconvenient time. I can do plenty of good IMs closer to home. And if I'm going to spend five figures on a vacation (family of four), I'm probably not going to do it around a race that absorbs a big chunk of the vacation time. So I'm like MrRabbit-- I'd do Kona if someone else were paying. The reality I'm unlikely to ever do Kona. That doesn't mean I won't keep trying to re-qualify.

There was some discussion about the cost and availability of lodging.

There are cruise ships that are based in Hawaii, Oahu I believe. I wonder if they would be possible for IM to make arrangements to have one dock off Kailua Kona and the athletes, friends, family rent rooms, with all amenities as if on the cruise.

Just a thought.

The cruise ships that do pull up there anchor out at sea and have tender boats ferry tourists to and from shore. I don’t think there is anywhere to dock? It would be a logistical nightmare especially with bikes and annoying having to wait for a boat like a bus I am sure. The tender boats also use the pier to unload and load passengers and that becomes out bounds near race day.

I mentioned this in another thread about Kona accommodations. There was cruise ship banter regarding IM Alaska. Apparently cruise ships are prohibited from operating as hotels. So that’s a nonstarter.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Agreed. I've raced Kona and spectated Roth. Holy smokes that town comes out! Each "hotspot" on the course felt bigger and louder than a typical IM finish line.

I've done 17x IM and felt I was done with that distance for various reasons. But seeing Roth made me sign up for next year as my (likely) final 140.6.

On another note, in his latest video Sam Long said he won't do Kona unless the "rumor" is true: that this is the last year of IMWC in Kona. So the rumors have officially started.

You need to try IM Wales, it's the best supported race I've done, which includes Roth. It a tough course, which is the opposite of Roth.

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http://www.tri-monkey.co.uk

I wonder if this is why they're trying to get as many people in as they can?

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

One question,

If Ironman WC goes away from Hawaii,

Do you not think that acaso Endurance, or even a "non branded" Ironman with less than 1000 entries could be possible?

I mean, if ironman brand doesn't fit Kona, because the size, I believe that there is space for a triathlon more "human", for those People that dream to race there, and who are not thinking in WC.

Did Long explain why he won’t do Kona?

"WC" is a bit dodgy anyway: Ironman Hawaii used to be Ironman Hawaii alone before the label "WC" was attached to it. Although being a private company, for which it is strange to have a "WC", the public accepts it because the Ironman Hawaii is regarded the most important triathlon.
However, if Ironman goes away from Hawaii it only takes with them the empty shell "WC". I do not know whether the public is going to regard things which happened in St. George a "WC", only because it is labelled as such by Ironman.

How can other brands get to Kona? They do not have the many Qualification-races as Ironman has. So how will a small amount of people, lets say 1000, be selected? Without qualification?

It can sounds crazy, but most of the races in the World are... without qualification. Like Challenge Roth.

Norseman solves this by a lottery + a small elite field

And the registration fee is less than 400 Euro.

For Nooseman? Well as far as i know, there are no aid stations as you bring your crew to feed you all the way. No road closures (most expensive cost item for any race), and you have to follow normal traffic rules
Limited security...

400 euros is not exactly a bargain when the OPEX is low

Same for London Marathon (ok bigger field, but much smaller than number of applicants).

Never said it was a bargain. There are 250 participants and a ferry to be paid. Whatever, for Kona the fee is 1200 Euro and 2000 starters. It is twice the price for a regular IM. Why? Roads cannot be that closed in Kona, ask Matt Russell about it. In the end, and this might be totally irrational, but I don´t care what they use my money for, it is just this huge registration fee I have to pay, after I already paid 600 or so Euro for a qualifying race.

All things considered Norseman is value for money. It’s a point to point that covers a huge geographical area in an expensive country. Things such as Ferry, race start and end facilities, safety, first aid support, permitting, insurance, cable card down from the mountain summit finish, race numbers/tracking/T-shirt’s etc etc. all this achieved with a relatively small entry fee and entry numbers. Puts the Ironman WC into context.

It is the best race on the planet.

Putting aside the relative dodgyness of claiming Hawaii IM as a WC, but Hawaii labelled itself as a WC well before any other current race or organisation had established any type of triathlon world championship. Not sure when Hawaii assumed the title "WC", but it was before the sport was 10 years old and prior to the ITU's formation as the sport's governing body.

If you compare Kona one day with Kona two days yes. But look if you compare it with the income of Ironman of all of their 140.6-es.
A two day Kona brings in 2500*1100= 2.7 million $ more than a one day Kona.
There are about 36 Ironmans. Lets say conservatively with 2000 participants per IM. That brings 2000*600*36= 43.2 million $.

So the income of Ironman increases with 2.7 / 43,2 * 100 = 6,25%.

And that I do not call a "massive difference".

This difference even becomes smaller -relatively, as a percentage- if you add all of the 70.3-s and other income of Ironman.

Hey, you guys are confusing revenues, profits, incomes etc.

Putting that aside, every time I have given Ironman $300-$800 for a 70.3 or full or given then over $1000 (all figures CAD) for a championship, I have probably spent $1000-$2000 on airfares, and $800-$2500 on hotels and probably another $200 on restaurants. There are several companies making way more revenue off each participant at an Ironman event than the Ironman corporation itself. Even for a local event, the towns force bogus 2-3 night minimum hotel stays. We are all lemmings in this. We can easily do local events, sleep in our beds, pay $80 and be done. Or just bike to your local pool, hammer a swim, get on the bike, hammer a bike for 40km and loop home, put on the running shoes and turn out the gps and hammer out 10km and do it all for free.

It's a bit hard to complain about Ironman and hotels and airlines milking us, when we can just turn on our GPSs and do it all for free like during the pandemic, but hey, if someone is organizing a party that we all want to be at, I guess they get to decide the price on what they want to charge, before we all go back to self timed solo events like we did in summer 2020 in most regions.

🤣

Interesting