sweet! Have you run it before? I haven't... a friend of mine did last year, and said the course was nice but the cold weather was a killer.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

70 might be a bit much for you, but I would dump all the intensity and shoot for 50 mpw....then 55....then maybe even 60 or 65. There's no real need to do those intervals so far out from the race. Elite marathoners can run pretty close to their lactate threshold for the whole race. So, for them, a high LT will be of great benefit.

However, for someone who runs 40-50 mpw, rw endurance will be your key limiter in that race. Don't worry about the intensity until you get within 10-12 weeks of the race.

---

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I have run that course several times in varying weather conditions. It can get cold along the water depending on the wind speed, but if you are dressed right you should be fine. There are a few rolling hills along the course mostly toward the end of each lap. It's a well run race with good support and great food afterwards. One of my favorites.

---

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

are you running it this February too ?
:)

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I've done the 1/2. Toughest thing is hanging out until you start running. That's why I stay at the Sheraton, I can roll out of bed and go to the start line!

oh that's right, the start is at 10am, isn't it? that will drive me nuts... marathons should start at like 5 am IMO

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

But I have other races before that :-) What is "rw endurance"? I did a 3:04 marathon (okay it was awhile ago) on about 60-70 miles a week. My current training level is 15-20 hours per week, including 200-250 miles cycling.

Yeah I will be there, but will decide later whether its the full or half.

---

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06

I meant "raw". With all that added cycling you may be fine. Just make sure you are recovering from your workouts.

---

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Being a new(er) runner at long distances I have read many articles and books and talked with a number people on this subject trying to figure out what is the best way to get faster at distances. This is one of the more relevant, clear and concise explanations that I have received. Thank you.

This post should be nominated for post of the year. TONNES of awesome info. Thanks a tonne Barry.

I wish we had sticky posts on ST.

Barry,

Just a reminder that a high LT is of great benefit for every runner, as it is what determines the racing speed for every distance run below and around threshold. The main goal for training is to push LT up, because building "raw endurance" is far easier. Someone that runs 40-50 mpw easily has that "raw endurance", what he/she needs is to push LT up in order to have a fast race.

<< Someone that runs 40-50 mpw easily has that "raw endurance", what he/she needs is to push LT up in order to have a fast race. >>

So, to plug this into the analogy (or is it a metphor, or a simile, I always get them confused....) of the icing and the cake:

Once you have been doing say 40-50+ mpw regularly for a given time period (I'll leave it up to coaches like you, Barry, DD, et al to specify how long to "bake the cake"), then you can consider doing some additional speedwork, tempo, etc (the "icing") to improve your LT and peak for your race.

In the ballpark?

---

float , hammer , and jog

I didn't read through all of the posts, but what I didn't see in your O.P. was mention of any type of form work or strides. What if any percent of your run time should be spent on formwork during the base?

you can do strides year round as strides are low stress activity designed for neuromuscular adaptaion to faster paced running than anything else. Same with form work, as long as you know the flaws you want to fix. Doing form work to just do form work is something that may or may not help.

The total % of time spent doing strides or form work will be low compared to the total volume you should be running. You can work on some form aspects ie footstrike, arm carriage, turnover during your run without having to do specific work before AND after you run.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Murphy,

Now that you ask me directly, I'll have to come out saying that I don't like that little quote at all. It sounds really clever and funny, but the wrong message comes across.

As for your specific question, the icing of that cake should be read as VO2Max intervals. So yes, those should be done closer to the race. As for the "tempo" or "LT runs", they can be done any time of the cycle, it just depends on the individual athlete.

Did I mention I hate the term "speedwork"?

Paulo, I LOVE your posts!

<< I'll have to come out saying that I don't like that little quote at all. >>

Well, it's obviously a gross oversimplification. Not unlike another catchy little ditty, more is MORE.

<< Did I mention I hate the term "speedwork"? >>

Perhaps for the good of the ST readership, you could prepare a FAQ and list the small handful of things you DO like, since a list of the things you don't like and/or hate would burn up too much bandwidth :-0

Or you can tell me over a cup o' Kona at Lava Java. I'll buy.

---

float , hammer , and jog

I'll have a large latte please. At Lava Java on race week that costs about $15. Bring your wallet! :-D

<< At Lava Java on race week that costs about $15 >>

Sheesh, even the coffee joints are price gouging. The joys of a free market society.

"Spaulding! You'll have nothing and like it!!!" ;-)

---

float , hammer , and jog

Just a reminder that a high LT is of great benefit for every runner, as it is what determines the racing speed for every distance run below and around threshold. The main goal for training is to push LT up, because building "raw endurance" is far easier. Someone that runs 40-50 mpw easily has that "raw endurance", what he/she needs is to push LT up in order to have a fast race.
____________________________________

Understood and agreed. You and I will certainly prescribe different workouts for th esame individual just as we would prescribe different workouts for different individuals.

IMO, I'd rather see someone in the 50 mpw range 5 months out from a marathon spend more time trying to get to 60 mpw, extend the long run, add a second long run, etc. than to focus on more intense workouts.

However, having said that I'll freely admit that *I* try to get at least 20 minutes a week of LT 9 months out of the year.

---

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

you can do strides year round as strides are low stress activity designed for neuromuscular adaptaion to faster paced running than anything else. Same with form work, as long as you know the flaws you want to fix. Doing form work to just do form work is something that may or may not help.

The total % of time spent doing strides or form work will be low compared to the total volume you should be running. You can work on some form aspects ie footstrike, arm carriage, turnover during your run without having to do specific work before AND after you run.
_____________________________________

Yeah....what he said! ; ^ )

---

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

BarryP, If am going through my base building cycle (months) during winter, and I do my long runs with a group of people that run faster than me ( their endurance pace is probably or close to my tempo pace), should I run by myself instead, or is it good to join the group for 1 or 2 long runs a month to spike my HR and elevate my LT, which will get me faster and able to hold on with the group?



Thanks

[reply]Speedwork is not icing...it's part of your cake.[/reply]

I like cake... are you saying that cake will make me a fast(er) runner?

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

It depends on what your goals are. If you really like the social aspect of it, then go ahead and jump in some lon gruns with these guys. However, I'd suggest starting before them, let them catch up, and let them pull away at the end. Remember, during this period, the easier you run, the more you can run. Conversely, The harder you run with them, the less you will be able to run during the week.



Ah, Paulo. Did you catch that? I said Conversely when I really meant Inversely!! Contrapositively, the less you run the harder you can run........that is the contrapositive....but it's not the point I was trying to make........ok......ignore this paragraph.

---

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

You can also use downhill running to help with turnover. Ideally, you want a long, slightly downhill sloping hill where you can get going fast with minimal additional exertion. And again, following the pricinples that have been dicussed already, you want to do this AFTER you have prepared your body for this kind of pounding--i.e., you will likely have done lots of strides and other turnover drills previsouly as well as LT and tempo runs of varying distances/times.

---

"I really wish you would post more often. You always have some good stuff to say. I copied it below just in case someone missed it." BarryP to Chainpin on 10/21/06