What are the much better repairing possibilities? Does the TL not accept a boot as well or something? And why butyl in the front?

I will not translate the complete exchange in french between Alban and the other guy, but to make a long story short :
- they both feel manipulation of tubeless is a pain in the ass
- butyl in front for heat protection on braking : latex too fragile to support high temperature variations due to intense braking, so not good on front wheel

et maintenant, dodo

Huh. Thanks for the translation.

Not IME.

Since Conti do not even make latex tubes, they clearly do not believe in them full stop. Heck, consumers cannot even buy their tubs with latex inners, which are reserved exclusively for pro/semi-pro teams.

Hello

this quote is a traduction of what Alban say in some comments/discussion with another guy (en francais dans le texte).

Personally, I only used latex inner tube on track : little braking involved. So, no experience on the road.

But I heard many times (including from road pro) that latex inner tube are considered dangerous on carbon wheels if heavy braking is involved.

Then, of course, "heavy braking experience" can be different if you tri on a relatively flat course or if you repeat up/down alpine and pyrenean pass.

Doing both, I do not use latex on the road. I mean... for inner tube.

 
Another comment made by Alban (en francais dans le texte) is that installing the GP5000TL was very difficult first time, a bit easier second time.

And he was sure that trying to install it with an inner tube (at least for 23mm and 25mm, might be easier for 28mm, TBC) will most probably lead to the inner tube destruction.

So, it appear using GP5000TL with inner tube, compared with GP5000 + same inner tube :
1) will be much heavier
2) will most probably lead to worse Crr (but still to be measured)
3) is nearly impossible to install on a rim... well you can try, but it will cost a lot in inner tube

The answer to the question : "why a standard version ?" is now clear.

May be the question should be : "why a tubeless version ?" as tubeless is a very small part of the market, and apparently still a bit crappy techno.
Answer is probably : as a market leader, better be early in a niche market which could develop, even if now most people still don't care about it.

I confirm the tubeless hassle but still prefer it because it will seal in case of puncture, that trump any hassle. When i train for that big race i don't want to think about eventual puncture.
I'm actually riding Corsas TLRs and with sealant they're a reliable option. From time to time i have a puncture and finish the ride between 3-4bars which is barely noticeable in term of rolling resistance on such a good tire.

Never an issue here either. Raced on the tremblant course about 12 times now, latex front and rear, with full carbon clinchers, and with HED Jets, never a single flat, no issues. I train mostly indoors, but in the outdoor riding I've done over the past 5+ years, I've used latex, not a single flat tire. (knock on wood). I've used both the red vittoria latex tubes, and the Vredestein latex tubes.

Tubeless road wheels and tires have been around since at least....what....2004 (specifically remember the dura ace pre-builts back then)? Gotta be a reason why after 15 years, most people still don't want to deal with them.

Most people also don't use latex tubes. I'm a diehard member of the Effing Road Tubeless Mafia (FRTM). I will smugly ask, "Need anything?" as I roll by you on the side of the road.

The most challenging braking I do is racing down 10mi of switchbacks, slamming on the brakes before each turn. The latex tubes have been fine for that.

Zipp did a braking heat test, and found that their rim strip would fail before the latex tube. But there are other reasons why latex could be an issue with carbon rims and extreme braking. The rim and tire bead become softer when they get hot, and latex is not as good at retaining the tire.

>90% of the flats I get are sidewall cuts, and tubeless wouldn't help. Small sharp things like goatheads, staples, tire wires, etc will rarely puncture the latex tube if I stop and pull them out. Bigger things that puncture the tube are unlikely to be fixed by sealant.

Not my experience.

That’s great for you. My experiment with road tubeless resulted in a cut that wouldn’t seal, so I gave up and threw a tube in. I love the promises; the reality leaves something to be desired for some use cases.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Yeah, but if the sealant doesn't work . . . good luck getting a tube in that thing!

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Not the whole world.

It seems shorter riders are being left behind, Instead of 700 & 650C it looks like Conti are only making 650B GP5000s.

Im hoping that’s only a short term situation.

Agreed. We are riding all kinds of nasty off road tubeless and it’s all good.

I’ve been tubeless road for two years now without difficulty. Actually the only flats I’ve had have been butyl tubes with small wire/stick. Off road and on road tubeless are fine. My tubeless tire is easier to mount than my Michelin tubed tires

 
From Alban tests, GP5000 TL are much more difficult to install than the GP5000.

Regarding the Michelin tires, I had also difficulties (Power Endurance), until a guy in a LBS show me how to do, now I do that very easily.

Bicycle Rolling Resistance just posted their test results for GP5000. Rolling resistance was measured as being comparable to the GPTT and significantly lower than the GP4000. Puncture resistance using their test protocol is a little better than the GPTT but not as good as the GP4000. I have been using 23mm GPTTs, but given these results I may make the switch to 23mm GP5000s based upon the GP5000s smaller size and potentially better aerodynamics.

They obviously believe in them enough to put them in those Pro LTD tubs ;) their sponsored teams get. My guess is it's a cost exercise. Not enough sales to warrant manufacturing them and more cost effective to chuck in their own buttel inner tubes in their tubs.

Of course, this is just after I bought a new set of GPTTs. Might use them on the rear with a GP5000 on the front...

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

I also have a pair of unused GPTTs and am thinking of doing the exact same thing. GP5000 on the front for improved aero and GPTT on the back because it will roll at least as fast as a GP5000.

So based on their results, looks like it is roughly 2 watts faster than a 4000?
So the very general rule of thumb that 10 watts = 1second/km...
The 5000 will be roughly 36 seconds faster over an Ironman, but have slightly lower puncture resistance.

Seems like a good reason to stick with 4000's and grab some good sale prices.... :)

Double all that for two wheels.